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Author Topic: Pre-Val sprayers  (Read 1806 times)

Offline Pat

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Pre-Val sprayers
« on: March 13, 2013, 01:26:04 AM »
Hi guys,

 Because I don't have a spray set up, I was thinking of of using a Pre-Val disposable sprayer I saw at the parts store. Has anyone on the forum ever used one to shoot dope?

Pat

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 08:41:15 AM »
I don't know what your budget is, but I have found a little Horror Fright roll-around compressor to be adequate to my needs.  For about $100 you could walk out of Horror Fright with a compressor, touch-up gun, regulator and hose.  If you're lucky it'll even all work.

Note: "Adequate", not at all "perfect".  At the moment I'm only painting fuselages, and doing my wings with 'coat.  Any time you're spraying the whole plane you'll probably have to wait on the compressor to refill, at least once per side.  A bigger compressor is definitely the first thing you'd want to change.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 09:34:38 AM »
A great painter can get a decent paint job out of a bad spray gun.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 11:17:06 AM »
From my limited experience with the PreVal spray things,, they do not atomize well at all, they are very small and would not maintain pressure to spray anything but maybe a small 1/2 a,,

I would suggest that you would be better off with one of the much written methods for using spray cans than to mess with this system if you have any desire to produce a reasonable finish,,

my two cents worth,,

and Tim,, while you are right,, to a point,,you are doing well with what you have so,, ok ,,,,,,,,, ~^.
( For the record  I a so not a fan of Horror Fright spray guns,, they are so very very inconcsistant from one to another in the way they spray,, like Randy said,, a good painter can,, an average painter needs everything in his favor he can get,, ) R%%%%
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 11:54:26 AM »
I have a touch-up gun that I bought for $5 at a rummage sale.  It has a sticker on the pot that says "Precision Crafted Tool" so I know it's got to be better than that crap that they sell at Harbor Freight.

Pat wants to spray dope: I don't think you can get that in rattle-can any more (Sig used to sell it; I don't think they still do).

I've heard rumors that auto-store rattle-can lacquer (ARGH!  I can't remember the brand name!) is fuel proof at least up to a point. 

I think, though, that if I couldn't afford a spray setup or didn't want to mess with the assemblage of crap that I have now I'd try brushed-on dope.  You trade off a lot of sanding for not needing spray equipment, but I could see it working if you have a lot of time on your hands.

My cheap little sprayer lays Rustoleum down a lot better than a Rustoleum rattle-can does.  I thought I'd suddenly become competent at painting when I sprayed the blue on my Ringmaster through the gun, only to spray red with a rattle-can and leave sags all over the pretty stripes on the wings.

More money is definitely better when buying spray equipment, and it is a nice long-term investment, but sometimes you have to settle "something is better than nothing".  Haunting Craigslist for a brand-name gun is probably a better idea than buying one from Horror Fright, unless you're impatient enough to want it now, yet patient enough to return it and try another one a few times...
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Offline Pat

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 12:15:38 PM »
Thanks for the input guys. At the moment I am using Duplicolor rattle can lacqure, The clear just leaves a bit to be desired(I was thinking of shooting Sig clear dope). I will just save the dough and buy a decent campbell hasufield touch up gun, and a small-ish compressor when I can afford it.

Pat

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 12:18:23 PM »
Sorry guys, but I have a Horror Fright touch up gun that's four or five years old that I've prayed over ten instruments with (In the high dollar price range) using nitro-cellulose lacquer and it just now crapped out on me.  The secret is thorough cleaning (Meaning dis-assembly)every time and being willing to pitch it when it starts going south.
For those not familiar with it, nitro-cellulose lacquer is twin brother to butyrate dope.  I'll pick up a new one next week when I'm in Toledo.
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Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 12:50:26 PM »
We used to use them at work till the Union Safety committee shut us down - No spray paint in the hangar...

They work good for touch up. No better or worse than a spray bomb/ rattle can paint job, just the convenience of mixing your own.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 12:57:10 PM »
For all that I own one and am happy with it, I should point out that the problem with the cheap Chinese equipment is that sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's bad.  If you luck out -- great.  If you don't -- too bad.

Mark Scarborough pointed out to me quite a while ago that many of the Chinese guns are knock-offs of decent Binks or DeVillbiss guns, right down to the dimensions of the various parts.  This means that -- if you luck out -- you can go to a pro paint shop and get rebuild kits.
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 02:47:13 PM »
Pat,
I have used the Preval spray pack on several ships and been very happy with them. There are a couple tricks to using them on a full size ship. First, remove the strainer on the bottom end of the pickup tube. Mix the paint 60/40 thinner/paint. Make sure the surfaces is oil free and tack rag down to get off all dust. Before starting to spray, get a quart jar an fill it with HOT water. Take the power head with the head cap on but the paint jar off and put it into the hot water for 30 sec ish. Remove the power head from the hot water, remove the cap, dry it.

Install on the paint jar and start spraying about 10 - 12" away from the surface (I like to have a small piece of aluminum foil on the bench to test spray onto). Once the power head starts to feel cold (usually after a wing panel or the fuse and tail), put the head cap on, remove the power head from the paint jar, put it into the hot water for 45 -60 seconds (you get a feel for this) the go back to painting.

This keeps the pressure up and sprays pretty even. You will get a feel for how much you can spray between warm ups. Generally I get a dust coat and a wet coat on a wing panel. Once you finished the full coat I take the power head off the paint jar and have a second jar with thinner that I spray about 15 sec of thinner through the head then dry it off and put the cap on. Make sure you wipe down the spray button.  Doing this lets you come back and do the next couple coats with the same power head.

I use one power head for clear, one for light color, one for darker color (there cheap). Save the jars or buy extra jars for cleanup.

Best,        DennisT

Offline Pat

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 02:52:28 PM »
Dennis,

 This is exactly the way I thought about doing it(I always warm my rattle cans). Untill I can get a compressor and gun, it looks like this will be my method of choice.

Pat

Eric Viglione

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 03:06:29 PM »
Tim - While I agree with you and Mark about the dimensions, it's the metalurgy that sucks on the chinese knock offs and that effects even the "good" ones. Little things, like on the spray nozzle on the real gun, it will be chromed all the way and on the cheapo knock off, they do the last CNC step on the front after it's chromed, and it's rough as a cob. Same goes for the internals, pot metal and rough as a cob inside the gun where the paint passes through, and it hangs on to paint no matter how good you clean, and then decides to spit a little of that previous color right at the worst possible time. Those little details in quality sure do suck the joy out of using them for me.

The only work around I've found for this when I used those cheapo's was to dedicate several guns for primer, white, colors & clear, that way I could avoid some of the surprises. A while back, I gave up on them and I took Randy Powells recommendation of buying a Sharpe Finex 1000 and haven't looked back. It's not a top of the line expensive gun, but it's decent, and a lot better than the cheapo's and it clean's up easily.
I still have cheapo guns for shooting primer etc. but that's all I use them for anymore.

EricV

For all that I own one and am happy with it, I should point out that the problem with the cheap Chinese equipment is that sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's bad.  If you luck out -- great.  If you don't -- too bad.

Mark Scarborough pointed out to me quite a while ago that many of the Chinese guns are knock-offs of decent Binks or DeVillbiss guns, right down to the dimensions of the various parts.  This means that -- if you luck out -- you can go to a pro paint shop and get rebuild kits.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 03:08:23 PM »
Sorry guys, but I have a Horror Fright touch up gun that's four or five years old that I've prayed over ten instruments with (In the high dollar price range) using nitro-cellulose lacquer and it just now crapped out on me.  The secret is thorough cleaning (Meaning dis-assembly)every time and being willing to pitch it when it starts going south.
For those not familiar with it, nitro-cellulose lacquer is twin brother to butyrate dope.  I'll pick up a new one next week when I'm in Toledo.
Will, I think you and I had a conversation about spray guns a few years back if not mistaken,,
experience can overcome equipment

for anyone wishing to avoid the sticker shock of something like a Sata MiniJet (what I have) look at a line of guns called the Finex, its made by a major name brand supplier, parts are and will be available,, and they spray wonderfully, just keep them clean
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 03:12:29 PM »
Pat,
I have used the Preval spray pack on several ships and been very happy with them. There are a couple tricks to using them on a full size ship. First, remove the strainer on the bottom end of the pickup tube. Mix the paint 60/40 thinner/paint. Make sure the surfaces is oil free and tack rag down to get off all dust. Before starting to spray, get a quart jar an fill it with HOT water. Take the power head with the head cap on but the paint jar off and put it into the hot water for 30 sec ish. Remove the power head from the hot water, remove the cap, dry it.

Install on the paint jar and start spraying about 10 - 12" away from the surface (I like to have a small piece of aluminum foil on the bench to test spray onto). Once the power head starts to feel cold (usually after a wing panel or the fuse and tail), put the head cap on, remove the power head from the paint jar, put it into the hot water for 45 -60 seconds (you get a feel for this) the go back to painting.

This keeps the pressure up and sprays pretty even. You will get a feel for how much you can spray between warm ups. Generally I get a dust coat and a wet coat on a wing panel. Once you finished the full coat I take the power head off the paint jar and have a second jar with thinner that I spray about 15 sec of thinner through the head then dry it off and put the cap on. Make sure you wipe down the spray button.  Doing this lets you come back and do the next couple coats with the same power head.

I use one power head for clear, one for light color, one for darker color (there cheap). Save the jars or buy extra jars for cleanup.

Best,        DennisT
well Pat,, there ya go, a consisive complete answer,,
despite sounding rather single minded when talking about spray guns and such, I understand not everyone looks at it like I do,, so more power to you if this works,, I really hope it does for your sake,, and thanks to Dennis for such a well thought out answer,,,,
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 03:55:51 PM »
The only work around I've found for this when I used those cheapo's was to dedicate several guns for primer, white, colors & clear, that way I could avoid some of the surprises. A while back, I gave up on them and I took Randy Powells recommendation of buying a Sharpe Finex 1000 and haven't looked back. It's not a top of the line expensive gun, but it's decent, and a lot better than the cheapo's and it clean's up easily.
I still have cheapo guns for shooting primer etc. but that's all I use them for anymore.

My long-term plan is that as soon as I start experiencing problems like that I'm going to start looking on Craigslist for decent used guns, or just go buy a nice gun (and probably a bigger compressor).  I certainly wouldn't recommend that someone who has the money and knows for sure that they're going to keep using the gun go out and buy an el-cheapo.

Thanks for mentioning the issue about the internal finish.  That had not occurred to me, but now that you mention it I can see the sense of it.  It'll be something to look out for and will aid me in my decision about when to switch strategies.
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 05:19:04 PM »
Mark, yes, we did have that discussion, and we both came to the conclusion that my satisfaction with the cheapies came as the result of my spraying the same medium all the time.  That conclusion would support the guys here who use a different gun for each product.
They still require a total tear down for cleaning, in my opinion, anyway.  The comment about the rough surface of the inner parts in a post above points out the need for the tear down.  Yes, it's much better to have an expensive, good quality gun, but for a starter, and for a low budget situation, some intensive labor can get one through for a while.  I still want a new Plummer from right here in town, but am spending on other machines first.  (Just bought a new surface sander for the shop, I'm in seventh heaven!  It'll do an 18" wide guitar top in one pass!) 
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Offline Steve Thornton

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2013, 12:43:47 AM »
Pat I have used the Pre-Val spray kits twice and the results were not bad.  I used Sig and Brodak Buty.  I let the canisters et in the sun to warm for about an hour, and mixed the paint with about 60% thinner, so it made for very light coats. I would prefer to use "rattle can" paint but it takes too long to dry and is very delicate while removing masking after trim...had to remove the entire base coat and start again. My Hellcat is Brodak with the Preval. I'll try to post a pic.

Hope it works for you,
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 05:44:44 PM »
Hi Pat,

I have an "almost new" 33 gal upright compressor.  And a couple of decent spray guns.  You are free to use them at any time.

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Offline Pat

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 10:48:39 PM »
Hi Bill,

 Since I already planned on invading your space to do the wing on the Colossus, I wasn't comfy asking to invade again for paint! Hahahaha! Do you need anything from Brodaks since I am up here?

Pat

Offline Pat

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2013, 10:53:35 PM »
To everyone who chimed in on this thread, Thank you. It is always nice to get some input on my questions. In talking to my dad about this(an old hot rodder) He even told me I could paint with a spray attachment for an electro-lux vacum cleaner(His first dragster was painted this way, and hand rubbed and polished). Anyone know where I can find a vintage 1963 electro-lux vacum cleaner???  LL~

Pat

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 12:40:42 AM »
Horror Fright spray guns?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »
Horror Fright spray guns?

Harbor Freight ,, 9$ specials,,
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Pre-Val sprayers
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2013, 08:39:06 AM »
Harbor Freight guns work for me.   But, I don't go for 20 point finishes either.
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