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Author Topic: Particulate matter in dope  (Read 3182 times)

Offline Jim Svitko

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Particulate matter in dope
« on: January 09, 2015, 12:30:10 PM »
I have some Brodak dope and not sure what to make of this problem.

The problem colors are Hawaiian Teal and Caribbean Turquoise.  There may be other colors with this issue but these are the two I have.  These colors have dark granules in them.  They are very small, dark blue or purple.  I tried a sample spraying and these granules, aside from clogging the spray gun, are deposited on the surface.  When smashed or crushed (can't think of better words) they leave a dark blotch or streak.  So, sanding does not remove them without leaving streaks.  These particles do not dissolve when the dope is shaken or stirred.  They stay suspended.

Are these particles part of the tint or pigment?

Filtering removes most of the particles but not all.  I am wondering if the dope is poorly formulated or if there is a way to remove these particles.  I have not seen this with a any other Brodak dope, clear or colors.  Any suggestions?

Offline Larry Borden

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 12:39:00 PM »
I've never used those colors, but have used both Brodak and Randolph. I use filters from Finishmasters where I buy some of my supplies, masking tape, etc. Never had any trouble clogging up spray equipment. What filter are you using?

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 12:45:04 PM »
I have used several filters.  One type from an automotive paint store.  This is a cone shaped paper with a mesh on the bottom.  The other I got from Home Depot.  The Home Depot filter is one of those large filters for the 5 gallon buckets.  It appears to be a finer mesh than the filter from the auto store.  I cut it in pieces and filter the dope thru it.

I have strained the dope several times.  Each time, the filters catch particles but more remain.  Either they are getting thru the mesh or they are somehow coming out of solution.  Does that make any sense?

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 07:08:01 PM »
Brodak thinner or Randolph thinner, both butyrate.  The thinner is not the problem.  I have been using these two thinners for quite some time, they are compatible with each other.  I can use either thinner with either brand of dope.  No issues regarding particles with any other colors.

I think the formulation of the dope is the problem.  Somehow, these particles found their way into the system.  I have a hard time believing that they should be there, either as pigment or a tinting agent.

These particles look to be the same that I found in the now discontinued Ultraviolet Purple. That is, they appear to be the same color.  But with the Ultraviolet Purple, they were hardly noticed since they are as dark as the dope color.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 07:32:52 PM »
Might help if you use a paint shaker. It will tend to break up anything in the mix. Then filter.
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 08:34:53 AM »
I have seen that problem in Brodak paints. I could not get all of the particles out either. Try Sig paints.

Derek

Offline Dale Barry

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 12:19:12 PM »
Jim,
 I have used the Teal and had the same problem, it's in the paint. I also had trouble with the tape pulling up paint, but that could a separate problem. I got the plane finished, finally, but will not use that color again.

Offline Larry Borden

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 01:06:10 PM »
I had the same problem with tape pulling up the paint. I quit using the blue 3M stuff and use the green tape from automotive paint stores. Also, I pull the tape up before the paint dries.

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »
Jim how do you like that Randolph thinner?
Steve

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 03:09:20 PM »
Hmmm, then my only suggestion is to stay away from purple. It's not very manly anyway. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Ty,
There were kings born to the purple that might have an issue with the manly thing. They weren't timid about slaughtering a few people a day to keep in shape.
Purple was a very difficult and expensive dye for hundreds of years. Only the wealthy could afford it and royalty took control of it for themselves. It became common when synthetic dyes were created somewhere around the early 20th century.

Dennis

Dennis

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 04:21:05 PM »
Hmmm, then my only suggestion is to stay away from purple. It's not very manly anyway. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Manly, girlyman, call it whatever you want, but purple is actually a great color.

Can't remember the Bank, maybe it wasn't a Bank, but they use purple and green in all their commercial medium and their logo.

Works on the Skyfall 007, works for me!



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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 07:02:03 PM »
Jim how do you like that Randolph thinner?

I like the Randolph thinner, especially the price.  I buy it in gallons.  Much cheaper than the Brodak label.

Regarding the granules in the dope:  I sent an inquiry to Brodak about this.  Brodak sent replacements (same colors).  The granules are still there but not as much as before.  I have not tried to filter and use the product from the replacement shipment.  I only shook the cans, stirred, and brushed a bit on some wood scraps.  A few granules appeared.  Maybe a very fine filter can remove them.  I will not use either color again until I can experiment more and make sure I can remove the particles.

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 07:28:14 PM »
I have some Brodak dope and not sure what to make of this problem.

The problem colors are Hawaiian Teal and Caribbean Turquoise.  There may be other colors with this issue but these are the two I have.  These colors have dark granules in them.  They are very small, dark blue or purple.  I tried a sample spraying and these granules, aside from clogging the spray gun, are deposited on the surface.  When smashed or crushed (can't think of better words) they leave a dark blotch or streak.  So, sanding does not remove them without leaving streaks.  These particles do not dissolve when the dope is shaken or stirred.  They stay suspended.

Are these particles part of the tint or pigment?

Filtering removes most of the particles but not all.  I am wondering if the dope is poorly formulated or if there is a way to remove these particles.  I have not seen this with a any other Brodak dope, clear or colors.  Any suggestions?



Have you contacted Brodak about this problem? If not, I'd do that immediately.

Good, Luck and thanks for the info, Jerry

Offline Dan Taylor

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2015, 08:02:17 AM »
I had the same problem with tape pulling up the paint. I quit using the blue 3M stuff and use the green tape from automotive paint stores. Also, I pull the tape up before the paint dries.

I just used for the first time the 3M blue tape and may not ever use it again. It did not pull up dope for me but along the edge the "feather" or raised edge that remains because of tape thickness sometimes had a huge flag of trim dope attached since the dope did not want to stick to the vinyl tape.  I also found that this 3M #471+ tape was just as thick as paper tape , .005" .   Can you say more about the green tape ?

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Particulate matter in dope
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2015, 08:56:27 AM »
Dan,

The green tape is a lower tack than the blue. The build up at the edge of the tape is controled by how much paint is applied. This is why it's important to use colors that cover well. You can always spray a test to see.

I used blue and green tape on the Skyfall 007. There are photos.

Full wet coats may not be necessary. Couple of light coats can do the same thing as far as covering.

Interesting because I'll never use color dope. There are other ways.

 I'm currently playing around with aerosol cans. ;D

I've had no tape issues, bleeding, or thick edges using them. I do scratch everything up. BTW. You can sand a paint edge down carefully.

Now I'm playing around with artists acrylic.  I have plenty of experience with this paint.

The Mig-3 will be all artists acrylics.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 05:40:13 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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