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Author Topic: Panel lines  (Read 1887 times)

Offline bfrog

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Panel lines
« on: January 20, 2010, 06:55:16 PM »
I have never done panel lines before and would like to add some on a new plane I am building. I think I understand the basics but have two questions.

What is the best ink to use? India ink, permanent marker? I don't know.

If you are doing the lines on iron-on covering how do you preserve them? I don't know what kind of spray to overcoat them that will be flexible enough and sticky enough to stay on the covering. The plane will be electric powered so I don't have to worry about fuel proofing. There must be something.

Suggestions greatly appreciated.

Bob
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 08:35:41 PM »
I still FOREVER...prefer my old Rapid-O-Graph pens.....and a good Mylar India ink with that contains a little etching ingredient.
This way..if any lines that don't look quite right..can be easily removed with a little BON AMI polishing cleanser. "Tain't scratched yet!"

However I highly recommend the cleanser wash be used lightly over the entire panel that is to be painted...to remove any finger prints and impurities BEFORE starting the inking process.

Remember to make certain the pens are clog free and clean in order to retain a nice even and consistant flow pattern. Just a clean surface will allow the enough "surface tention" which will allow the ink flow effortlessly without needing too much hand pressure...(which can cause some pretty ugly pressure marks onto that soft brand new thin coat of paint and soft balsa sheeting. Equally important to practice, practice, practice pen use first...plus keeping the correct pen angle to the surface at all times. Always double tape under all masking tools to keep the ink from "bleeding under the mask..etc, etc...n all that jazz.
EZer' sad than dung' H^^
Like Mark and Randy would say:
 "One is only as good as their last paint n' ink job!"[move][/move]
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 07:48:46 AM by Shultzie »
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 11:35:03 PM »
Hi Bob,

The typical CL planes panel lines are 3/64” wide (this is exactly between 1/32” and 1/16”). This is a line made with a fine point Sharipie permanent marker pen, or a fancy "artsy" pen.
 
On my film covered P-40 I just used a SHARPIE Fine point pen and the lines came out great. I did them from a scale plan showing the real planes panel lines. The whole plane (top and bottom) only took a few hours to do. I used a thin metal "Fiskars" 36" and 15" ruler with a cork bottom. This was the 1st plane I ever did this to and it was much easier and faster than I feared it would be.

I did not use any clear to protect the ink. I use E power so it has not been a problem. The plane is 3 years old with > 400 flights. I am careful when cleaning off the dust and grass but even being carful has not prevented small parts of the lines being worn away.  It only takes a few minutes to restore them to their original state.

If you want perfection and are putting them on a “20” point plane, then you may want to put clear coat over them. You can use the Monokote brand "Lusterkote" Clear from tower hobbies or your LHS. This is a very good paint and will seal the panel lines. ....... If you are using a film covering on your plane then using one of the 1/16” (or 3/64”) striping tape solutions below should work great.

Here are the links to get you started: 

Finesse Pin striping, Inc

1/32” stencil using paint with stencil brush or monokote pen. This method should give you results that are as close to perfection as is possible. I have this setup and it works great. This would be my 1st choice if I painted a plane.

http://www.finessepinstriping.com/striper_order.asp

Monokote  Pin striping

With a new sharp blade, and being careful, you can make 3/64” pinstripes for our CL panel lines using trim sheets or regular monokote.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ33&P=M

Monokote Pen

Use with stencil above,  ….. Or with a ruler, skill and patience.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=top+flite+%3CB%3Epanel%3C%2FB%3E+%3CB%3Eline%3C%2FB%3E

Striping tape for panel lines

Easy, tough, long lasting, and fast. .... If  1/16” is OK?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=1%2F16%22+striping+tape&search=Go

« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 07:57:23 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline bfrog

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 09:56:21 AM »
Rudy,

Thanks! Everything you want to know about striping. Just what I needed.

This is for a carrier plane not  a stunt plane so it doesn't have to be a "20 pointer". Just needs to stay on and look good. I am planning e-power for this one too so fuel proofing is not necessary (don't you just love that!).

Thanks again.

Bob
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 03:46:28 PM »
I've never done lines on a plane other than fake aileron or rudder hinge lines.  It seems to me that panel lines should be sort of the same color as the adjacent panel rather than just black or white.  On a yellow panel, take some yellow dope and add a little black or silver, maybe.  Wouldn't it look much more realistic? 

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 08:01:04 PM »
If it were scale, yes, shoooting a grey candy through a mask, or witha pen, so that it just hints of the line would be more accurate, but this is stunt, and its a style thing. At least in my opinion, its not really about being accurate or realistic as much as the style,,,,
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 02:33:56 AM »
Very good points guys, I agree with you 100%.

When I flew CLPA for the 1st time about 3 yrs ago (old combat flyer from 60s/70s ;-) I noticed that if you wanted high APs you needed three things:  1. SHINNEY,  2. BIG FILLITS,  3. AT LEAST 1 MILLION PANEL LINES!  LL~

I hate to waste my rec. time building a plane, BUT I really, really, hate getting ZERRO APs, so I have 3 planes in the finishing stage so I can get some APs in all classes. (I have three 2nd place trophies that I missed 1st by < 6 points, one was by 1 point!  HB~> )  Sooooo ..... All three planes have # 1&2&3 above! ;-)

I am a big fan of scale in my RC planes and I want all my CLPA planes to be scale too. My WWII planes will have a lot of panel lines but not my Extra 300L and Cap 21. Like Ty says, the real acro planes do not have many panel lines (almost none). The FS Extra 300L I flew was so smooth it looked like it was carved out of one big block of polished plastic. Putting panel lines on my model of that FS plane would be an insult!  n1

My guess is that panel lines on models started as an attempt to mimic rows of rivits in FS planes, and also the very small gap in panels on older prop planes and some old jets. ex: We had some ADC F-106's next to us on the flight line in SEA and I remember the 1st time I walked up to one. Up close you can see all the small gaps and the wavy aluminium on the fuselage and even many of the flush rivet lines. They were so old that the aged wiring required that the technicians were instructed to do a long count to pace the slow movement needed as they opened the large panels that moved the wiring harnesses for their weapons control systems, this was to prevent the old wires from breaking inside their cable housings. We were really glad that we had almost new aircraft to fly!  y1

Jim, Your idea makes perfect sense under bright direct (no angle) light conditions. But I think our model panel lines are used to denote the gaps and rivet lines under different light angles and varied light conditions that cause our eyes to see a dark shadow rather than the actual color of the paint on the plane. I know in bright direct light all our planes looked smoother and better than they did in flatter, angled light conditions. I sure would like to see how your idea works out. Maybe an artist like Mark could try it for us on one of his masterpiece paint jobs? :-)

Personally, I do like the idea of thinner, lighter panel lines. It will be interesting to see how the AP judges will feel about them?  :!

PS: Bob, my pleasure. I have learned so much from you guys on this forum that I am glad I can give a little tiny bit back once in awhile. :-)

Regards,  H^^ 
Rudy
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 01:38:46 PM »
Right on...about HEAVY INK LINES....especially on scale. Equally disturbing are panel lines that I have seen on a few "scale-like" CLPA models...that NO ONLY USE HEAVY INK LINES...but to add insult to injury...the builder then attempts to airbrush HEAVY AIRBRUSHED PANEL LINES next to their already OVER DUNG'DONE LOONIE TOON CARTOON like attempts at "REALISM?"

I can only imagine just how much of a scale model project would be...if that builder had chosen to use this airplane for a scale model project? LL~ VD~ S?P H^^
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 03:03:33 PM »
Hi Shultzie,

I think, (hope?), that the reason for the thick lines we see on CL planes is due to the difficulty of getting them thin enough by the average model painter/builder. This is why I made some of the suggestions in my earlier post. The 1/32" stencil gives perfect narrow results.

But Mark has a good point, it may have just become a "style" thing. TRADITION holds a lot of weight with the reactionaries in CL! ;-)

If my two photos make it to this post, they give a good ex. of FS panel lines. They also show what Jim meant about making them almost the same color. The 1/2 painted DC-3 shows the same panel lines almost disappear, very faint, under the paint but show up boldly on bare aluminum (like most WWII planes). Paint DOES add weight! ;-)

« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 03:41:15 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 03:33:13 PM »
Another DC-3 showing panel (rivet) lines on the aluminium. There are a lot of stringers (Loungerons) on these planes and they get real close together at the front of the plane. :-)

If CLPA guys want to be REAL scale like, they can do what the RC Scale guys do and that is buy the rivet strips that are actually raised up to accurately simulate the head of a scale rivet. They are installed before painting and they do look cool. But there are tens of thousands of rivets on some of these planes. Even I am not AR enough to do it this way!  LL~
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 04:14:26 PM »
 LL~
Plus take notice on how the panels and dots change not only size..but also the coloration from the  shine and reflections off that last DC 3's alumn. skin panels.  H^^
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Panel lines
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 10:10:52 PM »
Well, I still believe that panel lines are a style thing. The Avenger is going to ,,( assuming I get brave enough) some panel lines. My reason is perhaps different, and may provide more insight as well. The color scheme, and trim pattern on the plane is going to be very simple. I dont want to detract from the gorgeious sexy lines this airplane was designed with by a bunch of tramped up, wiz bang, flashy stuff. In the air thats great, on the ground it is perhaps going to look a bit plane,, uh, sorry ,, look a bit plain,, *snicker*  so the panel lines are pretty much a concesion to judging for appearance on the ground. That and they are typical for classic era airplanes, from what I have seen anyway......

I think it would really behoove anyone doing panel lines to actually look at a real airplane, not pictures, but walk up to an airplane and see how the panels are assembled,, it may generate some very suprising observations about how they are put together,, and then create some more realistic panel lines,,

of course, you can all judge mine when I get there, speaking of,, I should go get back to sanding the sealer so I can repaint,, sigh,, about 40% done,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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