Just getting back into the sport after a long lay off.  In the 60's I painted everything with a brush.  I have just finshed building a ship and I wanted a better looking finish.  I bought a gravity feed detail spray Harbor Freight.  I am really not satified with it.  What guns do you guys recommend?   Dudley Lang

As Randy says,, The Finex is a very solid gun for the money. They only minor squabble with them that I have, they require THOUROUGH cleaning every use. For some reason the design is prone to trapping paint in a couple little areas that cause grief next time you use it. However, if you clean it well it will serve you for  a long time.
Personally I use a Sata Mini-jet, I also just recieved an Iwata detail gun that I am anxious to try. My Iwata airbrush is a tool of fantastic precision and reliability so I expect this detail gun to be its equal, though in fairness, I will most likely use it only for color, and maintain my minijet for clear. The Iwata just doesnt have as big of a pattern for spraying clear.

Randy,
I would let you hold it for awhile ifyou wanted to,,
its REALLY pretty,, and feels really good in my hand..
I may even let you spray some thinner through it,, maybe,,

 Would it be better to let you spray some thinner through them? then you could pretend your painting something 

I now have the SATA, a Finex (and Mark recommended the second - Walt Prey actually recommended the first), a Jaguar Mini-Jet (a high end SATA ripoff, but works really well) and a cheap Harbor Freight full sized gun for shooting primer (why spend the bucks on a primer gun?). Also have a Paasche air brush that needs replacing. Probably with an Iwata.

BTW: the movie reference was from Payback. James Coburn in his last movie to Mel Gibson when Gibson shoots his alligator bags.

Hi Randy ,

You might consider a Harder & Steenbeck airbrush .

Just my personal experience , it's a touch better , than the IWATA .

All the best ,

http://www.germanairbrush.com/

Rob K.

 Hi.

 Does somebody know if all the new Iwata's have Teflon (or similar) needle seals? I have a few RG-2 guns bought about 8 years ago and they have seals made from something that looks like leather. Anyway, I turned new ones from Teflon which is much better. I just remember reading somewhere that they've gone to Teflon.. L

Larry, and others,
inexpensive guns can work ok,, but its just like airplanes,, you fly a ringmaster and its the best thing you ever flew, then you fly a flapped profile and ITS the best thing ever,, then you fly something that is trimmed, and properly designed, and you realize,, WOW,, this is AWESOME.
spray guns, and tools in general are just like that. Until you have used something that truly is a precise instrument, You dont realize what compromises you are making in performance.
Now you go use what you want, but for me,, I will swear by my equipment.

Tim, no worries there, my spray guns get loaned about as often as,, well, ok so they dont get loaned. The guy I do restoration work with, ( master painter, custom and production) wont even ask to borrow my airbrush even though its better than his,, lol I require a deposit to even look at them,, 

Dont know if any one has tryed central pheumatic Adjustable Mini Detail spray gun from harbor, but it sprays color dope great. Pick up the first one with a coupon from the ama for 9.99. Just got one today for 12.99. I have not tryed clear with it but at this price I can have one every color. These seem to spray color better than my $200 Devilbiss, it could be that there are top feed. I still like the top trigger of the old gun.

Doc,

That's a point that needs to be made. It's great if you can afford a high end Iwata or SATA or similar gun. It makes like a lot easier and they are utterly predictable and easy to use. But you don't have to have one to get good results. You can make a cheap Harbor Freight job work with some practice. It's just going to be inconsistent, wear out prematurely and be a pain, but it can be made to work. I once picked up a gun from a company called, of all things, Air Force Sprayguns. It was a relatively cheap (like $40 at the time) gun that was not too bad. With some practice and a lot of fiddling, I figured out how to get the most out of it and shot many planes with it that came out really well. It was the best I could afford at the time and I was able, with a lot of practice, to get it to work pretty well. But it took a lot of work, adjustment and fiddling every time I used it.

I can see valid points on both sides of this discussion.  But I know there are guys trying to enjoy the hobby on a budget, and they might be willing to stretch the budget for a quality engine, but probably feel they have to cut corners somewhere, just to stay in the hobby.  So they read about some guys who get by with the cheap guns and off brand thinners and figure those are some of the areas they can cut cost and stay active in the hobby.    I dont see it to be a big risk trying out the cheap guns because you can do test spraying on something else to make sure you have something that is not going to cause you a lot of grief with your plane.    

When I read about several others (some who have produced 20 pointers) who have used Dupont 3608S with various dopes for 20+ years,  you gotta figure it works..   On my latest finish job on the RMD, I used an off brand thinner with Randolph dope.  I had blotches when I applied covering with nitrate, and then crazing that sarted with the tinted butyrate coats and continued right to the end with the clear coats.  Will probably never know if the thinner had anything to do with that.  Sure would like to know.  Other possibilities, HOK Kandy Koncentrate was used for tint, also some say its the use of nitrate under the butyrate.    I used the off brand thinner mostly because it was available at a local body shop, didnt want to pay hazmet for gallon containers of thinner.  I have a Novar in the finishing process right now.  Used the same thinner with an auto lacquer primer/surfacer for base, and then with Brokak white for base color, no issues so far.    

Now Mark I know this is going to drive you crazy.  I have a Sharpe Platinum full size gun,  Binks HVLP detail gun,   & Iwata Eclipse air brush,   and then cut the corner with the off brand thinner..

Mark,

That's a good point. I do use auto toners in dope. Chemically, they are inert (as long a you aren't using metallics or pearls in some sort of incompatible carrier). But as you say, I'm still taking a chance. I've used manufacturer approved materials from the wood to the clear and run into problems. But I can be pretty certain it isn't the materials. When you go off the reservation, it introduces the possibility that it is the material. One more thing to worry about.

Last note on spray guns. You don't have to have the top of the line to do a good job. But if you at least get the middle of the line, you take another variable out of the equation. The Sharpe Finex gun that I got on Mark's recommendation when my old DeVilbiss died is a middle of the road gun. Not the finest thing around, but of good quality. It's utterly predictable and repeatable. While not the greatest gun around and in certainly has a quirk or two (like the need for it to be completely clean), it's pretty easy to figure out and gives consistent results once you understand it. I'll take that.

Hey Mark:
My next project, after the Novar, will be another transparent finish.  
Going to use Randolph Butyrate only (no Nitrate) and with Randolph's thinner and retarder.  
Only off-brand item will be the HOK tint.

Iwata is the choice of the Jive Combat Team, so you know it's good.  Iwata is imported by Will Naemura, combat and speed flyer and former F2A US team member.

I love my Iwata airbrush, and I have a Badger Anthem that is also great for what it is intended for.

I totally understand what you have always said, mark, and I applaud you for saying it.  It really will cut down on the potential for problems when the neophyte is spraying models.  I used to hang out with one of the country's top custom car painters.  He used only the same product all the way through, with the highest priced guns.  Then, again, he got five figures for a paint job, as a starting price, usually.  A $500 spray gun was peanuts to him......

I would also be in 100% total agreement with you as far as products used for our little airplane hobby if I hadn't seen years of Windy Urtnowski's (loaned) videos where he uses what he uses.  Windy has had more Concours winners than anyone else in stunt history, and his planes have held up for years........... and......... Billy Werwage and Bob Hunt.........



Mongo

I agree, Windy, et all, do very well with their systems, remember they have been using it for how many years,, and yeah I to have heard of them struggling,,
for those of us who dont have 40 years ahead of us,( or 40 years behind us in experience) its far better to reduce the risk factors. In stunt, the better the plane flies , the less excuses you have lol, same deal,, the spray gun wont neccesarily make you paint better,, but is sure can make you paint worse,,
Maybe part of the difference is,, I build so I can paint,, I LOVE sanding, and priming, and being anal picky,, It brings me JOY to spray, so I want the best tool in my hand when I do it. Its like flying, I dont enjoy flying my Ukey anymore, I would MUCH rather fly my Avenger, It responds to my desires honestly, and it feels better to me,, Just like my spray guns,,
but as said before, each to their own, Randy, bear with me here,,
I have often told Randy, I would DIE for a chance to come spend a week with him when he paints, I think I could sit in the corner and kibitz, just little tidbits that would make life smoother for him, he doesnt need my help with colors, layout, or for that matter technique, but theres just things that make life more simple, and straight forward, that would help prevent some of the silly things that happen. well except for bats falling on your plane, I got nothin there,,  Not only that, I know that I could learn from him as well,,