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Author Topic: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility  (Read 3229 times)

Online Brett Buck

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Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« on: June 13, 2009, 07:26:42 PM »
After some experiments, I can confirm that K&B Superpoxy Catalyst works just dandy with Klass-Kote color. I needed that combination for reasons I don't to go in to, but I mixed it up and sprayed some test patches, and no problem at all. If anything, it zapped off faster with (maybe 30-year-old) K&B Gloss catalyst than with the regular Klass-Kote gloss catalyst. I thinned it with Klass-kote reducer, and that also seemed to work pretty well, too. I know that Klass-kote reducer *doesn't* work with K&B Primer A/Primer Catalyst, you need Superpoxy/Ultrapoxy thinner for that. But no problem with the KlassKote A/K&B "B"/Klass-kote reducer.

    I haven't tried the other way - K&B Color with Klass-Kote catalyst. Dave Platt says it works, and he is certainly qualified to say. But I haven't tried it myself. I can't really see much reason to do that unless you need to match old colors. Klass-kote has a much better selection of colors than K&B ever did. I would be interested to see if the thinner works, or you need K&B thinner.

   I would also note that despite the comments instructions that you could spray it with no reducer, I can't imagine any C/L application where that would be true. It varies from color to color, but white Klass-Kote A comes out of the can with a consistency somewhere between honey and pudding. The catalyst thins it a bit, but I still needed something like 1:1:2 Color/Catalyst/Thinner to get it through my airbrush, and I needed at least 2:2:3 with a regular touch-up gun. With the same settings, K&B would need about 1:1:.9, so klass-kote is *much* thicker. It also covers much better, so I expect that the difference is the pigment quantity, but I can't see any way in the world you could ever use it without thinner. Once you do get it thinned out enough, it flows out beautifully and stays liquid long enough that you don't have to worry too much about rushing to avoid the overspray.

    Brett

Offline Gary Anderson

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 07:39:07 PM »
After some experiments, I can confirm that K&B Superpoxy Catalyst works just dandy with Klass-Kote color. I needed that combination for reasons I don't to go in to, but I mixed it up and sprayed some test patches, and no problem at all. If anything, it zapped off faster with (maybe 30-year-old) K&B Gloss catalyst than with the regular Klass-Kote gloss catalyst. I thinned it with Klass-kote reducer, and that also seemed to work pretty well, too. I know that Klass-kote reducer *doesn't* work with K&B Primer A/Primer Catalyst, you need Superpoxy/Ultrapoxy thinner for that. But no problem with the KlassKote A/K&B "B"/Klass-kote reducer.

    I haven't tried the other way - K&B Color with Klass-Kote catalyst. Dave Platt says it works, and he is certainly qualified to say. But I haven't tried it myself. I can't really see much reason to do that unless you need to match old colors. Klass-kote has a much better selection of colors than K&B ever did. I would be interested to see if the thinner works, or you need K&B thinner.

   I would also note that despite the comments instructions that you could spray it with no reducer, I can't imagine any C/L application where that would be true. It varies from color to color, but white Klass-Kote A comes out of the can with a consistency somewhere between honey and pudding. The catalyst thins it a bit, but I still needed something like 1:1:2 Color/Catalyst/Thinner to get it through my airbrush, and I needed at least 2:2:3 with a regular touch-up gun. With the same settings, K&B would need about 1:1:.9, so klass-kote is *much* thicker. It also covers much better, so I expect that the difference is the pigment quantity, but I can't see any way in the world you could ever use it without thinner. Once you do get it thinned out enough, it flows out beautifully and stays liquid long enough that you don't have to worry too much about rushing to avoid the overspray.

    Brett
Hi Brett,
Trying to remember, didn't most of us only use a small amount of hardener with the K&B Epoxy paint also we used to thin the K&B with 3608s Dupont thinner. Seems like it didn't take as much hardener as recommended. Never used reducer??? If you used one to one, paint to hardener, paint seems to set up to quick. I shot some a few months ago using this method and it worked great. Clear K&B Epoxy. I wonder if the klass kote will work this way???? I appreciate your input, Gary
Gary Anderson

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 09:29:29 PM »
And don't ever, ever, ever try to thin Klasskote (or even clean brushes) with Brodak Nitrate thinner. Please don't ask how I know this . . . HB~> HB~>

(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2009, 10:43:46 PM »
Trying to remember, didn't most of us only use a small amount of hardener with the K&B Epoxy paint also we used to thin the K&B with 3608s Dupont thinner. Seems like it didn't take as much hardener as recommended. Never used reducer??? If you used one to one, paint to hardener, paint seems to set up to quick. I shot some a few months ago using this method and it worked great. Clear K&B Epoxy. I wonder if the klass kote will work this way????

    Wow! I never used anything except 1:1, and I never had it set up too quickly. I never used anything but the standard thinner, either - since everything else I tried made it "clot".  I never tried 3608S but I did try everything else.

    Brett

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 10:49:43 AM »
    Wow! I never used anything except 1:1, and I never had it set up too quickly. I never used anything but the standard thinner, either - since everything else I tried made it "clot".  I never tried 3608S but I did try everything else.

    Brett

One thing, the 3608S is not at all the same as you use to buy when K&B was being sold . They have changed the formula a few times since then
I recently shot K&B white on the bottom of one of my planes, It still covered and worked well but us "glass brittle".  I should have bought new paint :-[
Randy

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 07:49:58 PM »
One thing, the 3608S is not at all the same as you use to buy when K&B was being sold . They have changed the formula a few times since then
I recently shot K&B white on the bottom of one of my planes, It still covered and worked well but us "glass brittle".  I should have bought new paint :-[


   I noticed that K&B thinner has a *whole lot more stuff* in it than any of the others - alcohol and some petroleum distillates, not just normal lacquer thinner components. The lacquer thinner I get from the local hardware store USED to work, then they changed the formula and it doesn't. And it doesn't smell the same. I am planning on going down the the hardware store, getting every type of solvent they have, and mixing it all and see if that works.

     My experience with K&B is that it *always* cured up like glass. Then again, nothing I have ever had was within it's shelf life.

     Klasskote is not nearly as hard but still a lot better than HobbyPoxy "liquid rubber", and can be sanded with success. Plus, it's new.

     Brett

Offline Gary Anderson

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 08:05:32 PM »
   I noticed that K&B thinner has a *whole lot more stuff* in it than any of the others - alcohol and some petroleum distillates, not just normal lacquer thinner components. The lacquer thinner I get from the local hardware store USED to work, then they changed the formula and it doesn't. And it doesn't smell the same. I am planning on going down the the hardware store, getting every type of solvent they have, and mixing it all and see if that works.

     My experience with K&B is that it *always* cured up like glass. Then again, nothing I have ever had was within it's shelf life.

     Klasskote is not nearly as hard but still a lot better than HobbyPoxy "liquid rubber", and can be sanded with success. Plus, it's new.

     Brett
Hi Brett,
  Isn't Mecoa close to you?? The K&B epoxy paint he is stocking, is this just a bunch of old stuff he's trying to get rid of??? Or is this stuff of a newer patch????? He seems to be out of most the popular colors but still has a lot of the product. I guess what I'm asking is, have you try any of the paint he has for sell???? I appreciate your input, Gary
Gary Anderson

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 11:25:25 PM »
Hi Brett,
  Isn't Mecoa close to you?? The K&B epoxy paint he is stocking, is this just a bunch of old stuff he's trying to get rid of??? Or is this stuff of a newer patch????? He seems to be out of most the popular colors but still has a lot of the product. I guess what I'm asking is, have you try any of the paint he has for sell???? I appreciate your input, Gary

  I have tried UltraPoxy, when t first came out, and it worked just fine. The white was quite "off-white" because the catalyst was a deep purple color, but it worked. The primer was kind of weird- it came out glossy - but if anything it was better than the original Superpoxy primer, which is quite a statement given that the original was and is the gold standard. I have about a quart of white Ultrapoxy and corresponding "high grade" catalyst.

     The problem is that you can't really get it anymore. It's been discontinued for quite a while and what he has is old stock. There won't be any more once this is gone. I am still using Superpoxy for a few things only because I have a massive amount of it. Otherwise, Klasskote is at least as good, and you can get all of that you could possibly want. It's a no-brainer unless you have a bunch of old stuff lying around  - just get brand new fresh KlassKote.  As far as I can tell everything is pretty much interchangeable (but test first...) aside from the thinner. 

     Brett

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 11:49:12 AM »
   ... And it doesn't smell the same. I am planning on going down the the hardware store, getting every type of solvent they have, and mixing it all and see if that works.

          Brett

Mixing it all (together?)  Yikes!  Thats going to be quite a mess!

I found that the cheap lacquer thinners at the Autozone, etc seem to be closer to "real" thinners that used to be available even in hardware stores.  The stuff now in hardware stores or home despot, etc seems to be reformulated to be completely useless for any possible application that needs lacquer thinner.
Steve

Eric Viglione

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 01:23:25 PM »
I think the trick is to look for the ones labeled "acrylic" lacquer thinner, and the better brands tend to have different speed thinners, and yeah Steve, Autozone is one vendor that used to sell (haven't looked lately) a medium-slow thinner that worked well.

EricV

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2009, 11:08:51 PM »
I think the trick is to look for the ones labeled "acrylic" lacquer thinner, and the better brands tend to have different speed thinners, and yeah Steve, Autozone is one vendor that used to sell (haven't looked lately) a medium-slow thinner that worked well.

      I think that we get different stuff in California than you can elsewhere. I will get a selection of thinners when I am in Muncie and see what works.

     Brett

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 08:07:38 AM »
Brett,
Be careful on the return border crossing............ VD~

Cheers,
Jim
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 11:49:07 AM »
Brett,
Be careful on the return border crossing...........

   They check for Med flies, but not for thinner ;-)

    Brett

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 01:07:13 PM »
Brett, you may also consider using a thinner from a contemporary paint system instead of laquer thinner. Say something from PPG Global, or Deltron. Its formulated for Urethane and I think it might be more appropriate for the catalyzed paints you are using. Just a thought,
Of course my standard disclaimer applies,, first choice is to only use what was designed to be used with the product,,
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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2009, 03:26:12 PM »
Brett,
Be careful on the return border crossing............ VD~

Cheers,
Jim

Shoot,  crossing the California border has been refined to a fine science.  Thousands do it every day.

Oh, you mean with non-PC chemicals!!! That might be more difficult than just moving into CA.

Ted

Offline Gary Anderson

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Re: Klass-Kote/K&B Superpoxy compatibility
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2009, 10:48:46 AM »
      I think that we get different stuff in California than you can elsewhere. I will get a selection of thinners when I am in Muncie and see what works.

     Brett
Hi Brett,

Have you had a chance to play with the different thinners? Looking forward to a progress report. I used some of the thinner that auto zone sells and it worked okay, virgin lacquer thinner not the fast thinner. The fast thinner doesn't seem to work as well. Would like to see your results, thank you Gary
Gary Anderson


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