Author Topic: KBS Diamond Clear - rattle can (Read 15916 times)

Dennis Toth · « **on:** November 25, 2016, 12:17:36 PM »

Guys,
Got a Black Friday email from KBS coatings, they now have the Diamond Clear in small cans (4 oz, &19.95) and in 15oz rattle cans ($19.95 regular price, BF $17.95). I have used this bushed on from a 4 oz can and it has held up well for over 2 yrs. I think the rattle can could be good for several ships if you just do the nose and tank splash area. As I recall this can get heavy if applied to thick (this is the problem with brushing, goes on smooth but thicker than spray). I have a few ships coming up so will take advantage of the discount.

Best, DennisT

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2016, 10:49:22 PM »

There were multiple reports that KBS Diamond Clear wrinkled up when hit with raw fuel. Your saying that it works well for you. I'm wondering if you did something different that made the difference?

Steve

Edit to add link: http://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/i-want-make-this-perfectly-clear/

john e. holliday · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2016, 11:28:07 AM »

Probably gave it time to cure.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2016, 12:11:39 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on November 26, 2016, 11:28:07 AM

Probably gave it time to cure.

Two or three weeks should be plenty of cure time for most finishes. The dope had at least 2 months of cure time and the the KBS had at least 2-3 weeks.
The KBS wrinkled "the instant" that fuel touched it in my case. You couldn't pay me to use that crap again.

KBS is expensive, thick, heavy and it really isn't even that nice of a finish. There are much better options. IMHO.

Caveat Emptor.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2016, 10:03:24 PM »

Did you scuff the dope finish prior to applying the KBS? That's where I was going with the question. But maybe there was something else that made the difference? What that might be, I have no idea. Just wondering why some had good results and some didn't, on a very basic criteria such as raw fuel resistance.

Steve

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2016, 11:18:24 AM »

you want a good clear, shiny and especially raw fuel resistant finish?

use this stuff: http://www.repaintsupply.com/aerosols/clear-coats/spraymax-3680061-2k-urethane-clear-coat-aerosol-p3685.html

I have used it now for about the past 10yrs. and it works great.
I have spilled 65% nitro fuel (I also race model hydroplanes/riggers) on it and it laughs at the raw fuel.
great stuff and does not crack over time and stays nice and clear.

just follow instructions and you can't go wrong.

Carl

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2016, 02:17:49 PM »

I think EddyR has had a lot of experience with this material and can maybe jump in here and give an update. I put it on over monokote around the nose. All I did was wipe it down with degreaser. So far, I haven't done any special clean-up and it's still good.

Question is if not KBS then what is the next best single component clear - acrylic lacquer or acrylic enamel?

Best, DennisT

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2016, 07:59:25 PM »

EddyR was one who reported disaster and wouldn't even use it again. Since it worked over Monokote, I'm wondering if the KBS came off already? I don't know how to test that theory, unfortunately. Puzzling, tho.

Steve

Avaiojet · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2016, 07:00:03 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on November 27, 2016, 02:17:49 PM

I think EddyR has had a lot of experience with this material and can maybe jump in here and give an update. I put it on over monokote around the nose. All I did was wipe it down with degreaser. So far, I haven't done any special clean-up and it's still good.

Question is if not KBS then what is the next best single component clear - acrylic lacquer or acrylic enamel?

Best, DennisT

I can't believe how many times I've put up this Post.

I started using a 2 part auto clear on my models as far back as the early 80's. I was familiar with the products because I used them just about every day. I made my living doing custom vehicle graphics, pinstriping and airbrush.

That's a lifetime of custom paint graphics, as compared to painting a model only once a year or even twice a year.

Before that we used a 2 part Epoxy base paint sold for use on model airplanes. I never liked this product.

I know of no single stage paint I would trust, back then or today.

Not mentioned enough is wax. Guys use plenty of wax on their single stage clears.

I don't wax and I don't polish so, I for one, really need a fuel proof paint.

Proof of the pudding, my scratch built pattern ship, built in the early 80's.

Sheeted foam wings and glassed, hand painted gold leaf lettering with shadowed and outlined paint by One-Shot. Dave's brushing Lacquer for the British flag graphics.

I posted the photo many times for the proof that 2 part auto clears can be "applied over anything", and there's a bunch of various paint mediums on this model.

Every model I ever painted in R/C was finished with a 2 part auto clear. Every model I've painted since I've been in CL, I've used a 2 part auto clear. Some of these models I used water base acrylics. The Mig-3 and the Stuka.

Before I came into CL I had no idea a 2 part auto clear was available in an aerosol can. This product was introduced to me by another modeler, I wish I could remember who?

The stuff is golden. I'll say it again, the stuff is golden.

If you don't use this product now, you will eventually. For those that have the use of applying 2 part auto clears and paint with professional spray equipment, kudos. Better results can be achieved using professional equipment.

Best advice I can offer and I've been pitching 2 part auto clears since the first day I arrived in the Forum.

I've mentioned this auto clear coat in all my builds and have use it on all my models.

Charles

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2016, 01:23:18 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 28, 2016, 07:00:03 AM

I can't believe how many times I've put up this Post.

I started using a 2 part auto clear on my models as far back as the early 80's. I was familiar with the products because I used them just about every day. I made my living doing custom vehicle graphics, pinstriping and airbrush.

That's a lifetime of custom paint graphics, as compared to painting a model only once a year or even twice a year.

Before that we used a 2 part Epoxy base paint sold for use on model airplanes. I never liked this product.

I know of no single stage paint I would trust, back then or today.

Not mentioned enough is wax. Guys use plenty of wax on their single stage clears.

I don't wax and I don't polish so, I for one, really need a fuel proof paint.

Proof of the pudding, my scratch built pattern ship, built in the early 80's.

Sheeted foam wings and glassed, hand painted gold leaf lettering with shadowed and outlined paint by One-Shot. Dave's brushing Lacquer for the British flag graphics.

I posted the photo many times for the proof that 2 part auto clears can be "applied over anything", and there's a bunch of various paint mediums on this model.

Every model I ever painted in R/C was finished with a 2 part auto clear. Every model I've painted since I've been in CL, I've used a 2 part auto clear. Some of these models I used water base acrylics. The Mig-3 and the Stuka.

Before I came into CL I had no idea a 2 part auto clear was available in an aerosol can. This product was introduced to me by another modeler, I wish I could remember who?

The stuff is golden. I'll say it again, the stuff is golden.

If you don't use this product now, you will eventually. For those that have the use of applying 2 part auto clears and paint with professional spray equipment, kudos. Better results can be achieved using professional equipment.

Best advice I can offer and I've been pitching 2 part auto clears since the first day I arrived in the Forum.

I've mentioned this auto clear coat in all my builds and have use it on all my models.

Charles

Now you have posted that same , tired old photo of a model that may or may not have ever flown. It has no AMA number on it, which is required for AMA competition and membership in almost ALL model airplane clubs. None of your models carries an AMA number. You make this claim about using two part auto finishes as far back as the early 80's but I don't think they were in use or even common back that far. You never even make mention of brands, and method of applying. With no AMA number of your models, you can not compete, and if you haven't competed, you have no back ground or "pedigree" or reputation to back up your claims. Most often it seems like you are just repeating what you read on line like here at Stunt Hanger. You have made claims of earning a living in several different methods and back grounds, and makes it very hard to believe anything you say. Until you can get out to a major contest, R/C or C/L, put your model down, enter, and post some scores, you have no way of backing up any of your claims. I could finish a model with brushed on Elmer's White Glue and get the same results as you post them, as in if the model is never flown, it won't see fuel. This is not bullying, just calling you out to prove all the relentless claims of calling yourself "professional." Where can we go to read about you and your "career?" Have you had any front row , or even back row appearances at the NATS appearance judging? Just putting up photos of hanger queens that you may or may not have built, isn't going top cut it. And no, I don't have to post any "hey look at what I did" threads, as people out there know me, as I have attended contests and worked within the modeling community. I have a reputation, and the record to back it up.
As they say in the movies, "Put up or shut up!"
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Avaiojet · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2016, 03:11:57 PM »

Dan,

I'm not going to read your trolling reply because you're just a jealous troll hole with absolutely nothing good to say to me. Hard to believe but you have trolled, bullied and marginalized my abilities for eight years. You must be tired thinking about Avaiojet.

I'm not even going to ask for your trolling remarks to be removed. this isn't my Thread.

I want the entire Forum members to read you, as you "muddy" up a fellow modeler's Thread and you troll me along with the entire Forum in the process.

Dan,

Someone just recently said they have been using a two part clear back in the 70's, go troll him.

Now, like it or lump it, with my lifetime background using auto products and other paint mediums to produce the professional quality graphics I did on custom vehicles and show vehicles, why would I not use the best product available to me for my models?

Instead of complaining and marginalizing my work, you could ask a question or two and I'd be glad to reply, grasshopper.

Here's a few more models I cleared with the 2K Spray Max aerosol clear.

There's a few more but those photos are on a different computer. I'll dig them up.

No professional spray equipment and no downdraft heated spray booth. just good old aerosol cans and the great outdoors.

So that puts me in the category of about 98% of all the Forum members. A good place to be.

Now for anyone interested in stepping up to a great product to clear your models with, I see the 2K Spray Max on ebay for 18.00 and free shipping. I just purchased two cans for my Gee Bee R-3.

More models cleared with the 2K Spray Max.

Charles

Brent Williams · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2016, 03:44:34 PM »

Winter is officially here it seems!...

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 28, 2016, 03:11:57 PM

Dan,

Dan,

Someone just recently said they have been using a two part clear back in the 70's, go troll him.

Now, like it or lump it, with my lifetime background using auto products and other paint mediums to produce the professional quality graphics I did on custom vehicles and show vehicles, why would I not use the best product available to me for my models?

Well, That's what I want to know. Who you did all of this great custom finishing for? You make it sound like you are the next coming of George Barris. I am not trolling, just trying to extract some solid information on who you are and what you do? You have to have some kind of reputation that we can research and read about.
Most everyone used dope back in the 70's because we could still get the good stuff and the EPA had not been let out of their cage yet.
You can't claim a professional reputation if you can't back it up with proof. Let us see your name on an entry list some where. You are in Florida, get out to the King Orange contest and show us what you got! And I'm not trolling, and I don't think you know the meaning of the word. I just want some verifiable information! You are constantly changing up what you say, and have guys piling on 2 or 3 different products on their models when it is known to avoid this type of thing due to compatibility problems.
Get your models ready to fly, put 'em on the circle, fuel them up and spill some on the finish so we know it works, and then put up a flight. After the flight, wipe it down and see if anything comes off. It's that simple. I'm from Missouri, show me.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

RC Storick · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2016, 04:32:29 PM »

I don't know about 2K clear but I do know about 2 part clear. I use to use it on my planes for the ease of getting a 36-inch finish. There is a downside and that is weight. Dope is not fuel proof it is only fuel resistant. So my option is to spray urethane on the nose only. This seems to have worked out well for me. I have had several front row airplanes. The front row comes from a combination of woodwork and paint and lots of elbow grease.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2016, 05:13:51 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on November 28, 2016, 04:32:29 PM

I don't know about 2K clear but I do know about 2 part clear. I use to use it on my planes for the ease of getting a 36-inch finish. There is a downside and that is weight. Dope is not fuel proof it is only fuel resistant. So my option is to spray urethane on the nose only. This seems to have worked out well for me. I have had several front row airplanes. The front row comes from a combination of woodwork and paint and lots of elbow grease.

Robert,

Yes, many of you guys, the full blown stunt competitors, do use a two part auto clear in areas more likely to get wet with fuel.

However, and you shouldn't loose sight of this, neither should anyone else, 5K members and HOW MANY fall into that category?

Only a small percentage.

I don't fall into "that" category and don't speak for the "full blown stunt competitors" never did, probably never will.

I'm that 98%.

Just having fun with a great hobby.

Robert, we both know my work speaks for itself. Not contest quality but not beginner either. In between, and that's not a bad place to be.

hey! I hope you have a good response for donations for 2017.

What are you taking to the Nats?

The Jet!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2016, 06:02:50 PM »

A durable fuel resistant finish is important to every one who FLIES models especially with glow fuel.. It matters not what the finish top coat is if your stuff doesn't get exposed, because then they are models, not flying models....

Your paint work is decent Charles,, in pictures at least,, ( of course pictures can be deceiving so who really knows) BUT the majority of people on here, while perhaps not top notch Nats competitors, are in fact concerned about creating a decent finish that wont go to hell when fuel gets on it. SO the advice should come from people who are exposing their models to fuel and Ultraviolet..

you would be well served to quit being so thin Skinned Charles,, its only when you start trying to be "the expert" that people start shutting you down. As long as you stay in your sandbox, and dont try to tell people who really know about this that they are wrong, your life would be a lot simpler bud,,

relax,, realize you are not the only source for information and certainly not the be all end all source for whats right information.. My models fly NOW, ( well until they suffer inglorious deaths) they are exposed to wear and tear every time I load them in the truck to fly ,,
just relax,, state that in YOUR opinion this is what you believe and quit telling those who know what they are talkign about they are wrong and your life her will be a lot more fun,,

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2016, 06:31:03 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 28, 2016, 07:00:03 AM

I can't believe how many times I've put up this Post.

I started using a 2 part auto clear on my models as far back as the early 80's. I was familiar with the products because I used them just about every day. I made my living doing custom vehicle graphics, pinstriping and airbrush.

That's a lifetime of custom paint graphics, as compared to painting a model only once a year or even twice a year.

If you were a professional, you should be able to tell us what products you used, instead of a generic statement, "two part auto clears." You should be able to tell us what brands, what product name, what reducers and thinners, what percentages of catalyst, what pressures and such. You know, the details! When you speak in generic terms, no one knows what you are talking about, and it sounds like you don't know either. If you go on line here with all this multiple product finishing stuff, and other people have a bad experience with it, how does that make you look, and how does that make Stunthanger look? You can't just spout out this kind of stuff without backing it up.
As far as your work speaking for itself, how does it do that when all you do is post pictures? How do we know you did it? You never get out to any contests to show the world that you are the real deal. Stop making excuses, get the models ready and lets see some flight reports. Otherwise, you might as well be doing plastic models. I know some people that just like to build, but they always see to it that the models do fly! Otherwise you are short changing yourself. What is the point of building a stunt model if you don't fly it? It has a purpose. If it doesn't fulfill that purpose, it's a hanger queen. You are missing out on the biggest reward in the hobby if you don't put them up for a few flights at least.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Avaiojet · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2016, 07:44:54 PM »

You guys just don't want me to be creditable, never did, so you troll me. All replies in my direction are trolling and marginalizing replies.

Couple of quick things.

Seems like you don't want your fellow modelers to use good products? Well we know you don't want anyone taking my advice.

I bumped my Thread on "Two part aerosol clears!". It's now up front and a great Thread. Anyone interested in a great easy shine and a fuel proof finish should take it in.

I also had Robert move my, "Flite Streak. "Skyfall. 007" Ready for paint!" Thread to CFC Graphics vendor's corner. It won't disappear there because there's fewer Threads. I expect to have more of my Threads moved to CFC Graphics also. My "Sandbox."

FYI and BTW.

I did my homework on that 2K Spray Max aerosol can product, even though it was tested by other modelers, rated exceptional, and highly recommended.

I called a few Vendors/distributors of that product and sent a few e-mails. The stuff in the can, as explained to me, is "Exactly" the same chemical that this manufacturer puts in quart and gallon cans which is sold to the auto industry. It is absolutely guaranteed to be the same stuff, as I was told.

The conclusion I made was these Tech guys were believable.

So, for those 98% of modelers, like myself, that don't give a rats a-s-s about full blown stunt ships or competition, use the product, you'll like it.

And for those guys that use two part auto clears and don't share, I have no control of that. They know auto clears are great stuff.

This R/C model, painted in the late 80's with a two part clear, I don't know the brand, but it was a mix and shot through a gun. Actually clear left over from a car that was shot at a body shop.

Probably 200 flights on this model, petty compared to the thousands CL guys get, and the model has two repairs. I still have it. Assembled, as you can see, it's still not all that bad to look at.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2016, 08:50:58 PM »

Charles, as I have told you privatly and publicaly, quit working so damn hard to be offended,,

you are ignoring the point of the comments and trying to be a martyr,,
You did not invent anything, you are trying to take credit for making this spray can clear known,, well thats not how this works,, if you truly want to share with your other non competative modelers, then listen to the people who do it competativly because they put in thousands of flights on a model and they proof what works and what doesnt....
we still have no reason to take your advice over Brett, Ted, Paul, Chris Cox, and a host of others who are known and have a track record that we all can see.
Just quit trying to be the star, and be one of the guys, put your comments out there as YOUR OPINION and quit trying to discredit thosw who know,, life will be happier,,

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2016, 09:28:27 PM »

I thought the topic was KBS Diamond Clear. Charles turned the subject at least 90 degrees.

Frankly, I'd like to see all the posts about other stuff removed. We don't care if Charles has been using 2 part auto paint for the last 32 years or not. Not at all. Some folks are looking for an alternative to "death paint".

Yes, it's that simple. Does KBS Diamond Clear work, or does it not? Some had good results, but others had terrible results. So how did the happy campers prep for it and apply it, and how did the unhappy campers prep and apply it? That's all we need to know, Charles! I'm just one of the folks looking for an alternative, and I don't care about your use of death paint at all. Sorry about that, but that's the way I see it.

Steve

EddyR · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2016, 09:44:50 PM »

Well my post got lost again So I will try a short version and see if it will take it
I had problems with KBS on old models. No mater how well I cleaned them they started to go bad after six months. I did not use it on any new models.
I also used the two part spray cans on the Blue Bearcat and had no problems with it. It was a new model and I tried many new things on it and it came out heavy.
I have also used automotive two part top coats with no problems.
I have used all these products since the 1970's and my blood shows it so I am very careful around two part paints now. I use to paint all my car projects with two part color paints. I will not get near them now

EddyR= Ed Ruane

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2016, 09:29:16 AM »

FYI the catalized material is still the same thing in a spray can or not.
I HIGHLY doubt that any non catalyzed product will hold up much better than Dope does, so its unlikely that you will find anything in a rattle can that truly holds up, at least not comparable to two-pack clears.

I get that rustoleeum is supposedly fuel resistant, but I wont go down that path, others have had success, not me,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2016, 11:47:43 AM »

Hopefully, things have settled here. Charles sometimes has good things to say. It seems he gets himself in trouble when others take exception. So, all need to realize that we are a small group of people, all with varying opinions. OPINIONS! State your opinion (yes, even you Charles) and people can take from it what they can.

That being said, I've thought about KBS clear and even asked a few people about it. But as Mark says, I can't see how it will hold up any better than butyrate lacquer. And I've used 2 part clear for quite awhile. It works.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2016, 11:59:54 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on November 29, 2016, 09:29:16 AM

FYI the catalized material is still the same thing in a spray can or not.
I HIGHLY doubt that any non catalyzed product will hold up much better than Dope does, so its unlikely that you will find anything in a rattle can that truly holds up, at least not comparable to two-pack clears.

I get that rustoleeum is supposedly fuel resistant, but I wont go down that path, others have had success, not me,,

Mark, I have had a little success painting my 1/2A planes with rustoleum, but as everyone knows I usually monokote everything.

What do you think about the topflite lustrekote? It dries fast and is fuel resistant in like 24 hours or something. How can that be? I've used it, and it holds up (for me).

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2016, 12:58:15 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on November 29, 2016, 11:59:54 AM

Mark, I have had a little success painting my 1/2A planes with rustoleum, but as everyone knows I usually monokote everything.

What do you think about the topflite lustrekote? It dries fast and is fuel resistant in like 24 hours or something. How can that be? I've used it, and it holds up (for me).

I have no experience with Lusterkote honestly,, so I cannot really give a valid opinion,, I know that there are products which catalize by contact with the air, but dont really trust them to be as durable as two part external mix products..

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2016, 12:59:16 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on November 29, 2016, 11:47:43 AM

Hopefully, things have settled here. Charles sometimes has good things to say. It seems he gets himself in trouble when others take exception. So, all need to realize that we are a small group of people, all with varying opinions. OPINIONS! State your opinion (yes, even you Charles) and people can take from it what they can.

That being said, I've thought about KBS clear and even asked a few people about it. But as Mark says, I can't see how it will hold up any better than butyrate lacquer. And I've used 2 part clear for quite awhile. It works.

agreed Randy, Charles obviously has experience, but like all of us, its opinion,

Dane Martin · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2016, 01:08:17 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on November 29, 2016, 12:58:15 PM

I have no experience with Lusterkote honestly,, so I cannot really give a valid opinion,, I know that there are products which catalize by contact with the air, but dont really trust them to be as durable as two part external mix products..

10-4. I'm looking to be able to "fuel proof" in very small batches. Really only on my speed planes. I'm thinking I might just resort to painting them, and going to a good body shop and have them cleared.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2016, 01:13:22 PM »

using two part clear in small batches is pretty simple really,, paying a shop to paint them might be simpler in your situation,,, you can buy small batches of clear and catalyst, and if you wear a respirator and have ventilation, its not really that big of a deal.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2016, 01:20:18 PM »

Right now, probably not an option. We're in an apartment, no air compressor, maybe 2018. After the wedding....
I really only plan on building a couple soon. But the rattle can thing works for now. But you know how it is, draw backs to that are fuel resistance, or like this 2k stuff once you activate it, it's only good for a short period of time. That's a big cost to shoot a 1/2A proto plane!

Maybe airbrush and 2 part?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2016, 02:14:02 PM »

I miss K&B Superpoxy. But that's just me.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #30 on:** November 29, 2016, 06:37:07 PM »

You are not the only one.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #31 on:** November 30, 2016, 12:13:33 PM »

A couple of things, I did a fuel test on the nose of my YAK YAK bipe where I brush applied the KBS DC, I put several drops of 14% N fuel, let it stand a minute or so then wiped it off. No crazing or dulling of the surface. I think I will try a test on a test piece that I prepare from the ground up with dope then topcoat with KBS. I might try several waiting different times to apply the KBS.

I also used the 2K Max that Eddy R spoke of on my El Diablo that I've been flying for about 2 yrs. It also is like new. The only thing I don't like about the 2K is the toxic level is very high and I would rather not take the chance as the air pack is not an option for me.

Charles flies with us down here in Palm Beach County, I have seen the ships he posted and they are very high craftsmanship and really well finished. We have talked about the different clear coats several times, I introduced Charles to the 2K Max rattle can 2 part (after I read Ed's comment a few years ago and tried it myself). Other part clears have been used but you need lots of equipment.

Best, DennisT

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #32 on:** November 30, 2016, 01:15:41 PM »

If it is catalyzed,, you need respirator protection, it does not matter if you spray it from a gun, or from a internal mix spray can, its all the same in the air,, you NEED a proper respirator,,

the auto two part clear, the spray can internal mix,, they all require breathing protection at the same level!!

DO NOT BE FOOLED just because it comes out of a spray can, it is the same risk....
Please , there are to few of us already, dont poison yourself...
Use the proper respirator, gloves, and body protection including your eyes...

Avaiojet · « **Reply #33 on:** November 30, 2016, 03:38:21 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on November 29, 2016, 11:47:43 AM

Hopefully, things have settled here. Charles sometimes has good things to say. It seems he gets himself in trouble when others take exception. So, all need to realize that we are a small group of people, all with varying opinions. OPINIONS! State your opinion (yes, even you Charles) and people can take from it what they can.

That being said, I've thought about KBS clear and even asked a few people about it. But as Mark says, I can't see how it will hold up any better than butyrate lacquer. And I've used 2 part clear for quite awhile. It works.

Randy,

These guys, the way they view me, they will never settle down.

Hey! "What's with the, "Charles sometimes has good things to say?"

Opinion? What I stated above is "Fact," not my opinion, and I stand by it.

This Post is exactly like the one I put up years ago that started all the trolling. Why do you think I put that 80's model in their face every chance I can get.

They just won't leave me alone and I'm the only one in the Forum they troll, now why is that? I feel special.

Dennis, you don't have to defend me, but thank you.

These guys know exactly where my knowledge and abilities are and there's nothing that can be said from anyone to make them recognize it or to make them stop trolling me.

You did ask about a single stage paint or clear that would be fuel proof.

I'll respond to that and the following isn't an opinion it's fact. It's interesting because I also Posted this information years ago. I think that Thread got locked then removed along with many of my other Threads.

Anyway.

There was this modeler that used "Rustoleum Industrial Grade" paint on his models. This product is not sold in aerosol cans.

The guy swears it's fuel proof. I read the article that was published in one of the model magazines years ago. Great article, step by step photos AND great photos of his finished models.

I read it but paid little attention to it because, at that time, I was using all base coat clear coat auto paint. The article was many years ago.

Now for those that want to troll this reply and just for the record, I'm stating that the article is "FACT," not that the Industrial Grade Rustoleum is fuel proof.

I cannot state that because I never used it. I wouldn't even have an opinion.

Dennis, when your model is completed, if you like, I'll clear it for you with the 2K Spray Max. Yes, I have a 3M mask and the wind will help. you can watch me do it, The stuff dries fast and you can take the model home.

I just purchased two cans, 18.00 each free shipping from Tampa. For my Gee Bee R-3.

EddyR · « **Reply #34 on:** November 30, 2016, 04:34:40 PM »

Most of my KBS went on projects like this old Zeus. Front row at two shows. I brushed it on.
EddyR

Avaiojet · « **Reply #35 on:** November 30, 2016, 04:38:55 PM »

Quote from: EddyR on November 30, 2016, 04:34:40 PM

Most of my KBS went on projects like this old Zeus. Front row at two shows. I brushed it on.
EddyR

Eddy,

Brushed on then sanded and cleared?

Nice bikes. Do you flip or keep them?

I do 30 miles when we go biking.

Charles

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #36 on:** November 30, 2016, 05:03:52 PM »

I remember a post somewhere where the writer had a conversation with John Brodak concerning how fuel proof his clear dope was. John said something like - don't know I always put a final coat of Lusterkote on and that does it. Since all this stuff is heavy and since Lusterkote does hold up, maybe its just as simple as that? Since what we are looking for is something that is "light" like dope but hold up to fuel. None of the 2 part auto type clears are light nor is KBS or Lusterkote. But is seems that Lusterkote may be the least toxic to work with (I do think that with any type of paint one should have at least a good filter mask).

Anyone use Lusterkote?

Best, Dennis

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #37 on:** November 30, 2016, 05:44:04 PM »

to be clear, two part auto clear is not heavy,, unless you apply it heavy,, and its VERY easy to apply it heavy but it does not need to be heavy

Dane Martin · « **Reply #38 on:** November 30, 2016, 07:51:08 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on November 30, 2016, 05:03:52 PM

Anyone use Lusterkote?

Best, Dennis

Yes sir,
This one is lustrekote. I actually have several 1/2A speed planes painted with Lusterkote. I let it sit for a week. I don't know if that is necessary, but I do.
I don't have any "great" finishes on these. I don't spend enough time on the prep I guess. But I rarely have time to spend building. I don't know about the clear though. I just use the colors. I would love to color sand this and shoot clear, but I'm kinda afraid to. I know the colors hold up, but clear seems to be that one thing that's hard to get right

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #39 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:52:02 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 30, 2016, 03:38:21 PM

Anyway.

There was this modeler that used "Rustoleum Industrial Grade" paint on his models. This product is not sold in aerosol cans.

The guy swears it's fuel proof. I read the article that was published in one of the model magazines years ago. Great article, step by step photos AND great photos of his finished models.

I read it but paid little attention to it because, at that time, I was using all base coat clear coat auto paint. The article was many years ago.

Now for those that want to troll this reply and just for the record, I'm stating that the article is "FACT," not that the Industrial Grade Rustoleum is fuel proof.

I cannot state that because I never used it. I wouldn't even have an opinion.

Dennis, when your model is completed, if you like, I'll clear it for you with the 2K Spray Max. Yes, I have a 3M mask and the wind will help. you can watch me do it, The stuff dries fast and you can take the model home.

I just purchased two cans, 18.00 each free shipping from Tampa. For my Gee Bee R-3.

This is the kind of thing we are talking about Chuck. You put this stuff out there, and can't back it up. If you can't quote the magazine title and what page it was on, how can we believe you that it really existed. I've been reading, and collecting model airplane magazines since I was a kid and have one of the largest and most complete collection in the country and I don't ever remember reading an article about Industrial Rustoleum. Give me a mag title and a publishing date and I can look it up. But if you can't how are we to know you are not just making this up for your argument? You can't call it a fact unless you can back it up with a source. If you can't do that, don't put it out there to confuse people. You could have some unsuspecting newcomer running down to Graingers to buy some Rustoleum paint that will weigh a ton and probably krinkle up on him. I know for a fact that there is a certain type of paint commonly available that is fuel proof, but I would never tell someone to use it on their control line model of any kind because it's HEAVY. And learn the meaning of the word troll. No one here trolls you. You make plenty of posts on here that sometimes don't even get a response, but then there are times like these where I think we owe it to the "other modelers" that you claim to represent that some of the information you put on here is bogus. Like I've said before, you can finish your airplanes with watered down Elmer's White Glue and get the same effect that you need, because you never fly your airplanes. But the majority of the people on this forum probably DO want to fly their models. That is their purpose. That is what they built them for, competition or not. So why don't you get one, just one of these hanger queens that you finally got finished and keep parading here on the forum, and take it out and get it in the air. If you are afraid to, let Dennis or one of the other guys in your area put it up for you. The proof will be in the pudding.
And congratulations on the free shipping from Tampa!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Avaiojet · « **Reply #40 on:** December 01, 2016, 06:21:11 AM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on December 01, 2016, 12:52:02 AM

This is the kind of thing we are talking about Chuck. You put this stuff out there, and can't back it up. If you can't quote the magazine title and what page it was on, how can we believe you that it really existed. I've been reading, and collecting model airplane magazines since I was a kid and have one of the largest and most complete collection in the country and I don't ever remember reading an article about Industrial Rustoleum. Give me a mag title and a publishing date and I can look it up. But if you can't how are we to know you are not just making this up for your argument? You can't call it a fact unless you can back it up with a source. If you can't do that, don't put it out there to confuse people. You could have some unsuspecting newcomer running down to Graingers to buy some Rustoleum paint that will weigh a ton and probably krinkle up on him. I know for a fact that there is a certain type of paint commonly available that is fuel proof, but I would never tell someone to use it on their control line model of any kind because it's HEAVY. And learn the meaning of the word troll. No one here trolls you. You make plenty of posts on here that sometimes don't even get a response, but then there are times like these where I think we owe it to the "other modelers" that you claim to represent that some of the information you put on here is bogus. Like I've said before, you can finish your airplanes with watered down Elmer's White Glue and get the same effect that you need, because you never fly your airplanes. But the majority of the people on this forum probably DO want to fly their models. That is their purpose. That is what they built them for, competition or not. So why don't you get one, just one of these hanger queens that you finally got finished and keep parading here on the forum, and take it out and get it in the air. If you are afraid to, let Dennis or one of the other guys in your area put it up for you. The proof will be in the pudding.
And congratulations on the free shipping from Tampa!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Dan,

If you look in the dictionary under "Troll," your photo is there.

At CFC Graphic's vendor's corner, you can read all about trolls and their personality makeup. Take it in, you might learn something?

You have been the same way towards me from the beginning, and that's a good number of years, and you will never change, even when warned. And I keep reminding trolls like you, that everyone reads this. Troll me and you troll the Forum.

As you try desperately, you can no longer marginalize my modeling abilities, all my work is in full view. What you use now is, "I don't fly." No one cares that I don't fly, just the trolls. That's why they use this.

hey! Where's your work? I should ask, "What have you purchased lately?" Like you think I don't know?

How do you enjoy your life let alone the hobby spending all this time trying to belittle me? Explain that one to me? And that piece you wrote above is quite short compared to your others. Years ago you would put up 1000 words or more.

Oh! And that truthful reply about Industrial Grade Rustoleum, I'll bet it's lighter than the old K&B Epoxy, yet guy's loved that K&B stuff.

Well I didn't, that's why I started using auto base coat and auto two part clear.

One last thing you mentioned about being vague, Experts do it all the time, but they do it deliberately, seems they always leave something out. Next time I see it I'll troll.

One more last thing. Why don't you mozy over to CFC Graphics vendor's corner and find fault in my Gee Bee R-3 build. As you did with every single project I posted.

You can start with my use of "Planking" the fuselage.

Now, like a good boy, I want you to find a Thread or Post where I trolled someone just for Posting a suggestion or comment.

You cannot find one.

Someone, like you and others, always starts it.

Go read about Trolls and Trolling. You're a perfect example.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #41 on:** December 01, 2016, 06:42:38 AM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on November 28, 2016, 03:44:34 PM

Winter is officially here it seems!...

Brent,

I just saw your reply.

Winter? Not for me, I'm in sunny Florida and loving it!

Florida is called "The Sunshine State."

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #42 on:** December 01, 2016, 08:58:49 AM »

Charles,
Grow the hell up!
no one is trolling you, you are the troll,
if you want to fit in quit trying to be THE expert, there is a LOT more knowledge out here than you have.
Nothing wrong with sharing an opinion, but understand, when you are wrong ( which you are often enough) someone is going to correct you.
I get corrected too,, its part of life NO ONE knows everything, even you,,,
so grow up, TRY to fit in instead of trying so damn hard to stand out..

and for gods sake quit trolling people who are trying to help.. I Googled Troll, and guess what, YOUR picture showed up,,

( ok not true, because you still try to hide without your name listed,, if you want credibility, then tell us your real name,, so we can look at your "art work" you brag about for years)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #43 on:** December 01, 2016, 10:51:26 AM »

I was wondering how long it would last and then think do I really need to post this or ignore it like some of the posts that are on here. I've been at this for over 60 years and still learning some things. But the one thing I have a hard time remembering is keeping my mouth shut. Even lately I have some trying to tell me how to start my engines that I've used for years.

How many Fox .35 Stunt engines start the same way from engine to engine? Even LA 25's I have, some with exhaust pressure and some with uni-flow only.

Jim Mynes · « **Reply #44 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:15:55 AM »

Some things never change...

bill bischoff · « **Reply #45 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:21:40 AM »

Anyone who misses Superpoxy, try KlassKote. Very similar, and compatible with Superpoxy colors and catalyst.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #46 on:** December 01, 2016, 06:20:43 PM »

I think I'll post a new topic in reference to fuel proofing. I don't think I want to buy the 2k stuff. I wouldn't use enough of the can to justify the price it seems.
Thanks for the info though!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #47 on:** December 01, 2016, 09:02:53 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on December 01, 2016, 06:20:43 PM

I think I'll post a new topic in reference to fuel proofing. I don't think I want to buy the 2k stuff. I wouldn't use enough of the can to justify the price it seems.
Thanks for the info though!

Dane, sorry CHarles crapped up your thread,,
I would agree with your perspective, once you crack the can I think the rest is toast( or so is my understanding)
so unless you get three or four ready to go at once, its probably not efficient...

There have been a lot of models that were cleared with dope and functioned with glo fuel, so it is an option, you just need to wax it, and keep it clean

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #48 on:** December 01, 2016, 09:08:32 PM »

Charles,
as I said,
grow up
the thread you posted makes YOU look like the troll especially since I only asked a legit question about copywright infringement since its of interest to me
ADDED And I am not worried about having it removed, I have not ever asked anything to be removed, I stand to what I say
not to mention your absolute disrespect for the person who started this thread,
I will say again, STOP, Grow up, learn some etiquette
You have your sandbox that Robert gave you to protect your little ego,, go back in your space and play with your buddies.
or learn how to get along out here,,
Again, Dane, sorry your thread got jacked up

Avaiojet · « **Reply #49 on:** December 02, 2016, 02:15:58 AM »

4:00 AM and I have to walk Red our wonderdog. Unbelievable.

Mark,

I removed that Post. It was from Stupid Stunt anyway and doesn't belong in this Forum.

I can see there's absolutely no way anyone is going to get you under control.

Be it as it may, you're one of the guys that control and run the Forum.

You always have.

P.S.

Mark,

Why are you making derogatory remarks towards individuals that have interest in my work?

There's absolutely no reason or need for that.

I think you should reconsider that statement and offer an apology. it's only a couple of guys, but none the less.