Author Topic: Is silking necessary? (Read 3384 times)

Avaiojet · « **on:** March 15, 2014, 07:44:19 AM »

I'm excited!

I know, hard to believe, but except for epoxying two gear rails in the wing, this model, as far as construction goes and a few odds & ends, is pretty much completed. And covered to boot.

I managed to get the thing, was once called The New American actually, converted to electric without making one hole or puncture in the open bay areas. It's no longer The New American, I have to come up with a name? Suggestions?

Oh......my gosh! That tedious jop of applying silk. I never liked glassing R/C models and I really don't like applying silk, but, as I did with the Mig-3, applying silk has to be done.

So, while I'm waiting for my magnets and my 3-48 "T" nuts, I'll apply some silk.

Just starting on the port side of the rudder and the battery hatch.

Nothing you haven't seen before or probably done.

I'm thinking scheme already.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2014, 10:13:25 AM »

Simple sanding of the silked ege takes off the overhang. #11 first to remove the greater part of the eccess.

Not to shabby.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2014, 05:58:37 PM »

The belly of the beast, silked.

I despise applying silk.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2014, 12:34:30 PM »

I've been ironing the silk before application.

Especially my silk, all bunched up in a bag.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2014, 06:50:22 AM »

Moving forward.

Silking other areas. Starboard side of the rudder.

The flaps aren't in place, they will get silked also.

The nose area will be last because I'm waiting for a spinner and I may have to make small changes to the shape of the nose to fit the spinner.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2014, 03:27:05 PM »

Reminds me of the days I glassed pattern ships with polyester resin, thinned 50% with acetone. The poly was lighter than the epoxy and had odor issues. Probably not as bad as dope.

Anyone else applying silk, glass, CF or silkspan on solid wood items as I am?

I think most use CF veil?

Anyway, to late, everything has silk applied except for the nose. Waiting on the spinner.

Flaps started out at 16 and 17 grams. So far, I've added a gram and change to each flap. Worth it?

Avaiojet · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2014, 07:42:28 PM »

Well, I got my 3-48 package of T nuts, four packages actually, ebay, on suggestion from another modeler. Don't remember who, but thanks for the advice, I took it!

Now I can epoxy my gear rails in place which really brings building tasks almost to a close.

Remaining:

Fit 3-48 T nuts to gear rails.
Epoxy gear rails in place.
Attach magnets to the motor excess hatch.
Attach flaps.
Attach elevator.
Make last bends in the wing gear wire.
Bend tail skid wire for tail wheel.
Silk nose area after fitting spinner.
Block sand the entire model.
Prime with Robert's 540.
Remove 90% of Robert's 540 with 360 sandpaper.

There's always little odds and ends and tweaking between tasks.

Then it will be time to shop for rattle cans.

Paint is close.

RknRusty · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2014, 01:27:51 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 17, 2014, 03:27:05 PM

....Anyone else applying silk, glass, CF or silkspan on solid wood items as I am?

I think most use CF veil?....

I'd never tried it before the pukey profile Yak-9 I just finished. I covered the fuselage and tail feathers with some light(I think) silkspan I've had leftover from old kits. I applied it with Minwax Polycrilic. It hardened the wood, more ding resistant, and made the paint look nice and glassy. I still primed it, and am glad I did, as I was considering skipping that step. All that's left is the decals and other cosmetics. I don't know if it stiffened it or added strength or not. I'm guessing it probably did.
Rusty

Avaiojet · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2014, 05:12:26 AM »

Quote from: RknRusty on March 18, 2014, 01:27:51 AM

I'd never tried it before the pukey profile Yak-9 I just finished. I covered the fuselage and tail feathers with some light(I think) silkspan I've had leftover from old kits. I applied it with Minwax Polycrilic. It hardened the wood, more ding resistant, and made the paint look nice and glassy. I still primed it, and am glad I did, as I was considering skipping that step. All that's left is the decals and other cosmetics. I don't know if it stiffened it or added strength or not. I'm guessing it probably did.
Rusty

Rusty,

You actually replied to my Thread, outstanding!

You need red stars for your Yak. Let me have the measurements and I'll send them out to you for free.

What a guy!

Charles

Edited for spelling.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:41:44 AM »

Charles,
For the paint part I have used the Preval spray power unit/bottle from Home Depot with dope and epoxy with very good results. The unit comes with a 4 oz jar and you can get extra jars to have other colors in. For the final clear coat I use the death paint from SprayMax 2K ( http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm) works pretty good, one can will do two 35 size ships.

Best, DennisT

RknRusty · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:49:21 AM »

Haha! Charles, I read lots of threads, sometimes I have something to ask and/or contribute. I've been stepping up my modeling skills in several areas including finishing, so here we go.

I started the Sterling Yak kit last Summer in an on again off again build. I've never built a warbird, so started looking at pictures, and when I found this one below, I turned meticulous up to a new level.

I have the Kit decals, but they're older than me and kind of dull, so I started trying to find these stars with the outline. I thought they look really cool. I finally found a website that has them, but have been procrastinating on spending more money on this thing, so I was planning on putting the old Sterling stars on it today. I also want to get some waterslide decal paper so I can put this Cyrillic text on the nose. I haven't figured which size font yet though.

If you can make those outlined stars for me, I'll go out to the shop and get the measurements and post back later today. That would be great. I'll snap a photo of the plane while I'm out there. I appreciate the offer. I'll send the text in a Word file if that's a possibility too.
Thanks for the offer, I appreciate the help.
Rusty

Paul Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2014, 07:59:19 AM »

I like working with silk because you can work the wrinkles out of it without tearing it, like paper coverings. It takes compound curves better than any other covering and it adds fibre strength to the model.

The only downsides the a nagging question of when to utilize a barrel of MonoKote and nagging complaints about the smell of butyrate.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:01:02 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on March 18, 2014, 06:41:44 AM

Charles,
For the paint part I have used the Preval spray power unit/bottle from Home Depot with dope and epoxy with very good results. The unit comes with a 4 oz jar and you can get extra jars to have other colors in. For the final clear coat I use the death paint from SprayMax 2K ( http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm) works pretty good, one can will do two 35 size ships.

Best, DennisT

Dennis,

Thanks for the reply!

Two replies in one day, I must be dreaming.

I'll be at Home Depot today, I'll check that out. Is that the one that has the CO2 cartridge?

Death paint will most likely be sprayed at my local auto body shop. I will research that product.

Thanks for the reply!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:06:43 AM »

Quote from: RknRusty on March 18, 2014, 06:49:21 AM

Haha! Charles, I read lots of threads, sometimes I have something to ask and/or contribute. I've been stepping up my modeling skills in several areas including finishing, so here we go.

I started the Sterling Yak kit last Summer in an on again off again build. I've never built a warbird, so started looking at pictures, and when I found this one below, I turned meticulous up to a new level.

I have the Kit decals, but they're older than me and kind of dull, so I started trying to find these stars with the outline. I thought they look really cool. I finally found a website that has them, but have been procrastinating on spending more money on this thing, so I was planning on putting the old Sterling stars on it today. I also want to get some waterslide decal paper so I can put this Cyrillic text on the nose. I haven't figured which size font yet though.

If you can make those outlined stars for me, I'll go out to the shop and get the measurements and post back later today. That would be great. I'll snap a photo of the plane while I'm out there. I appreciate the offer. I'll send the text in a Word file if that's a possibility too.
Thanks for the offer, I appreciate the help.
Rusty

Rusty Dusty, "Balsa dust?"

I make those stars with the outline quite a bit for the R/C guys, no big deal.

That Lettering, well, looks like lettering, you could just send me the decal sheet.

Sure, Post a photo or start a build thread. I like Russian aircraft. Have you seen my Mig-3 ?

Avaiojet · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:11:34 AM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on March 18, 2014, 07:59:19 AM

I like working with silk because you can work the wrinkles out of it without tearing it, like paper coverings. It take compound curves better than any other covering and it adds fibre strength to the model.

The only downsides the a nagging question of when to utilize a barrel of MonoKote and nagging complaints about the smell of butyrate.

Paul,

Thanks for the reply!

I'm weaning myself away from dope, especially now that I descovered the Big "E".

Odor? The wife would toss me. Like dwaf tossing.

Thanks again for the reply!

Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:16:38 AM »

I can't believe I had three replies!!

Amazing.

This mornings efforts.

Epoxied in place the rail blocks for the gear wire.

Blue tape is protection for the area not wanting to be sanded. No brakethrough there, that's old hat.

Sand, remove tape, finish sanding lightly.

Gear wire is delighted to be test fitted.

Both wires need to be bent then cut.

Getting there!

RknRusty · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2014, 12:01:38 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 18, 2014, 08:06:43 AM

Rusty Dusty, "Balsa dust?"

I make those stars with the outline quite a bit for the R/C guys, no big deal.

That Lettering, well, looks like lettering, you could just send me the decal sheet.

Sure, Post a photo or start a build thread. I like Russian aircraft. Have you seen my Mig-3 ?

Nah not "Balsa Dust," but I do get called "Dusty" once in a while. Crusty, Rustoleum, etc.
It says "Russ the Nailer" on top and "Yak-9" on bottom. My flying buddy calls me Rusty Nail and said I needed to name a plane accordingly, so that's the best looking combination of Cyrillic characters I came up with. I used Google Translator and typed stuff in until I got something I liked the look of. Then I pasted it into Word and formatted the color and font.

I went out to the shop and messed around with it. It's so close to ready to fly, I'm just going to slap the kit decals on it and call it done. I need to move on because I have to build a plane to fly in Huntersville the first weekend in May and I haven't even opened the box yet. I'd love to have the outlined stars and really appreciate the offer, but I'm feeling the need to get the Yak behind me. I was trying to make aluminum exhaust pipes for it today and got frustrated. I might abandon that idea and paint over the patch where they go.

Anyway, here she is as of today. The engine is just hanging on the nose for show right now. Still gotta mount the tank:

Avaiojet · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2014, 12:26:22 PM »

Rusty,

That's really a great looking model! Glad you posted a photo.

I like the elevator stitching.

Fox what?

That'll be in the air in no time.

RknRusty · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2014, 12:55:20 PM »

Thanks Charles, probably the best paint job I've ever done. After sanding the primer I shot it with one coat of Rustoleum flat white, warmed until the can was very hot to the touch and shaken to death. Then a week later, I shot it with one coat of glossy white and got great coverage. The heat really makes it flow. I bought clear Lustrekote for it, but I decided not to use it after seeing the results.

Once I make a tank mount and put the eyelets on the lines, she'll be ready to go. The Fox Stunt 35 is a 1958 model. One owner and broken in but only a few flights. It's my first and only fox, and was given to me along with the old kit. It's a lot of romp for a fairly small plane, 39" span.
Rusty

Avaiojet · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2014, 02:37:35 PM »

Rusty,

I thought the model was larger than 39" in span, I guess it's the white.

So, what is the final coat, that model shines!!

RknRusty · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2014, 03:34:14 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 18, 2014, 02:37:35 PM

Rusty,

I thought the model was larger than 39" in span, I guess it's the white.

So, what is the final coat, that model shines!!

Just like the white and red picture I posted yesterday, red stars and text on a glossy white background. The canopy will be a couple of shades of silver and blue/silver & some dark lines for pillars between the panes. When I opted to leave off the clear coat, I scrapped the plan for panel lines and rivets. It's an old crapwood Sterling kit for chrissakes, I gotta cheap out somewhere lol.
Rusty

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2014, 03:44:03 PM »

Charles,
Here is the web site for the Preval spray system, http://store.preval.com/?gclid=CP_R-5SGnb0CFQ8OOgodvnoA1w

At Home Depot.

Best, DennisT

Avaiojet · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2014, 03:57:46 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on March 18, 2014, 03:44:03 PM

Charles,
Here is the web site for the Preval spray system, http://store.preval.com/?gclid=CP_R-5SGnb0CFQ8OOgodvnoA1w

At Home Depot.

Best, DennisT

Dennis,

Thanks for the link!

I've seen that product from a distance, but never in hand. I know absolutely nothing about it.

I tried to get to Home Depot today but didn't manage it.

How long have you been using this product?

Charles

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2014, 04:50:47 PM »

Charles,
I've used the Preval sprayers for several years, recently I did the El Diablo base clear and color. Its simple, easy and gives a smooth coat. You spray at 50/50 to start and maybe 60/40 as you get to the final clear coats.

Best, DennisT

Avaiojet · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2014, 04:55:21 PM »

Sanded the gear rails flush with the wing. Done! Won't deal with them again till I mount the wire gear.

Silked the nose from the canopy forward to the hatch opening.

Only thing left to silk are the flap fillers and the nose. Won't do the nose till I get my spinner. And what a spinner it is.

I gotta come up with a name for this model.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2014, 04:57:32 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on March 18, 2014, 04:50:47 PM

Charles,
I've used the Preval sprayers for several years, recently I did the El Diablo base clear and color. Its simple, easy and gives a smooth coat. You spray at 50/50 to start and maybe 60/40 as you get to the final clear coats.

Best, DennisT

Dennis,

We were Posting at the same time.

Only thing with that is, you have to use canned paint. I was so looking forward to using aerosol cans.

Maybe a bit of both.

Exactly what kind of paint have you sprayed with this product? What's the tip like?

RknRusty · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2014, 05:19:00 PM »

Lowes has Preval too, if that's more convenient to you.
Rusty

Avaiojet · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:41:41 PM »

Dennis,

You're in Florida also.

Why don't you just swing by here, bring your stuff and paint the thing.

Gotta come up with a scheme. And a name.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:36:27 AM »

This mornings efforts. Couple of minutes.

Silk on the top side of the flap farings. Underside is next.

All silk will be completed then except for the forward nose and spinner area.

Postman, where is my spinner!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2014, 08:21:58 AM »

Bottom of the flap fairings are silked.

They will be trimmed, sanded and given a few more coats of clear.

The model is close to getting primed.

KenP51 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2014, 09:32:52 AM »

Hi Charles

I have not used silk Since the late 70s on a Falcon 56. Planted it.But I have a bunch of future projects that I intend to go back to old school with silk and Nitrate dope (to shrink) and color coats to be determined at that time. Thanks for showing us your silking.

I did a recent plane in 100% polyester dress lining fabric and Nitrate to shrink. Heavier and not all that easy to use on control surfaces. Looked real darn good though.

So back to silk. Where do you get yours and what mm do you use? I know I can get Habotai 5mm or 8mm from Dharma trading co. The question is which wight? The 8 fills with less dope, but is obviously heavier and mor apt to crunch light structures.

Your thoughts?

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:09:09 AM »

Ken,

I had a Falcon 56. purchased it built.

I'm sure there's more experienced "Experts" than myself who you could ask about methods of applying silk.

However, I'm really happy with the results I've had with applying silk. I put it all in "plane" view. Pun intended.

I don't use nitrate, but that's me.

I got my silk here and don't remember the MM? I'd have to pull the invoice.

http://www.thaisilks.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=china%20silk&page=1

I also have silk from Sig.

Thanks for the reply.

KenP51 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:22:17 AM »

Thanks Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:41:23 AM »

Ken,

I just noticed your photo. That model isn't a Falcon 56.

What model is that?

Charles

KenP51 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:45:33 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 19, 2014, 10:41:23 AM

Ken,

I just noticed your photo. That model isn't a Falcon 56.

What model is that?

Charles

No it is the only surviving rag wing I have and no photos of anything back in the day, bummer that.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #35 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:55:29 AM »

Ken,

What are you building for CL?

Got something going?

Charles

KenP51 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 19, 2014, 11:48:00 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 19, 2014, 10:55:29 AM

Ken,

What are you building for CL?

Got something going?

Charles

I am still working on my RM bi-plane.

Work on it has slowed a lot.

We are forced to move out of our apartment the end of the month. That is all the rent we can make.

I have had recent surgery and will have neck surgery to replace a disk middle of next month.

In the mean time we are trying as best our bodies will let us to pack. Have had help from the church, and will have strong young bodies to move us.

Since we have extremely limited income right now and my wife will not be physically able to care for me while I convalesce We are temporally being taken in by another family from the church. We have been friends with them for a number of years. They called us and said they were going to take us in.

I have not been able to work since being let go back in December. I have a lawyer to help me get disability.

So not much working on anything. To much other stuff and stress to even have the will to work, and my pain levels are just nuts.

But all this too shall pass. Here is a picture of my RM

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #37 on:** March 19, 2014, 12:50:33 PM »

Ken,

Thanks for the reply. I have no idea what an RM bi-plane is, but it looks like a good beginning of a great model.

Your plight.

Church and friends from Church is a good thing. I wish you the best with that and it seems you are in good hands.

Another chapter in life.

Blessings and prayers for sure.

Hang in there.

Charles

KenP51 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 19, 2014, 01:08:44 PM »

Thanks Charles

Ringmaster
It is my RM variant
On the BHOTR site
http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1560&posts=384&start=1

and on RCU
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/control-lines-231/11585751-ringmaster-bi-plane.html

Taking a short break to try and restore enough aft structure to a plan I had stored at a friends garage and it was very heavily damaged by rain and rodents getting to it. Just trying to add some stringers to the aft fuse so I can safely transport and store for later rebuild. Right now it is very apt to completely break the tail off making restoring it much more difficult. So some internal bracing to support the tail section till later.

I sprayed it down with a strong bleach solution. I want to protect myself against is Hantavirus or any other nasty rodent bug.

It is still salvageable if I protect the aft fuse structure. Here have I look http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/kep51d/library/Great%20Lakes%20Trainer%20T2A

Ken

RknRusty · « **Reply #39 on:** March 19, 2014, 01:24:22 PM »

Sorry to hear of your tough times, Ken. I'm glad you have some support and hope you can get back to having fun soon.
Rusty

Avaiojet · « **Reply #40 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:21:51 PM »

Ken,

"RM" Ringmaster, how forgetful of me.

Maybe you should Post the photos of the Great Lakes and talk about what's going on with that model.

John Stiles has a Ringmaster Thread going, do you know John? No reason not to hook up with him. I believe he has a RM bipe also and another Ringmaster that could qualify for EAA.

Here's his Ringmaster Thread link. Check it out!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33485.msg351377#new

TELL US ALL ABOUT IT!!

KenP51 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:31:54 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on March 19, 2014, 03:21:51 PM

Ken,

"RM" Ringmaster, how forgetful of me.

Maybe you should Post the photos of the Great Lakes and talk about what's going on with that model.

John Stiles has a Ringmaster Thread going, do you know John? No reason not to hook up with him. I believe he has a RM bipe also and another Ringmaster that could qualify for EAA.

Here's his Ringmaster Thread link. Check it out!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33485.msg351377#new

TELL US ALL ABOUT IT!!

Yep I know John. We follow each others thread over on TBHOTR site, chatted on line and phone a few times. He is a real nice guy but don't tell him I said that hahaha.

I have been posting the GL in another guys thread on RCU and picking his brain, but it is time to to give this bird it's on thread(s). I will also post it on SH's sister site that Robert started. I have been posting some there recently to try and give the site more action.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #42 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:06:01 PM »

Quote from: KenP51 on March 19, 2014, 03:31:54 PM

Yep I know John. We follow each others thread over on TBHOTR site, chatted on line and phone a few times. He is a real nice guy but don't tell him I said that hahaha.
Ken

Ken,

Not to worry, John won't see this Thread.