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Author Topic: Iron on coverings (Rant)  (Read 724 times)

Offline Peter Nevai

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Iron on coverings (Rant)
« on: June 10, 2011, 12:31:23 PM »
 R%%%% Honestly I am getting really tired or comments like "I'll only use inton on'd for my fun or sport planes, fo my real stunt ships it's only silkspan and dope" and dozens just like it. The myriad of comments that lead that suggest that is you use a iron on covering you are some how a lesser modeler, inferior, not really with the program, second class...... I can go on and on. This attitude is clear and is in the same vein as the anti ARF, ARC, sentiment. It's this "If you did not fabricate, assemble, cover and paint every last item on your model you are not worthy attitude" that seems not to have changed in the last 30 years. Is it changing, yes and no. Yes because the younger guys and the later retreads are far more open to change and because of attrition. No, because too many of the really old guys still run the ball game.

Perhap it can't be helped, it is a older you get them more stubborn and resistant to change you get, change means leaving your comfort zone, and for many older people leaving thier comfort zone scares the heck out of them. Perhaps because of this I should keep this in the back of my mind and cut the people who hold such attitudes some slack.

Could be that some new technology, or technique they can not grasp don't have much hands on experience with make them feel insecure so they shun it for fear perhaps they can not compete with it. I guess it fall under the old saying "you can't teach a old dog new tricks", maybe ther is more truth to that than is generally accepted.

Getting back to the point, I've used monokote exclusively since it was invented, never used anything else, It's not that I can't paint, as I've done custom paint on every motorcycle I've ever owned and also have done airbrush graphics on cars and vans back in the day. It' is just that on model planes, insisting on sticking with finishing techniques that have basically not changed in 50 years is for me is rediculous. Now I am not knocking anyone who insists on still using paper, silk, and dope to cover their model. If thats what you know how to do best then hey, knock yourself out.

Very beutiful model have been and still created this way. But for crying out loud stop with the upturned nose attitude. You way is not the best way, and certainly not the only way. Just because you can't get the result you want with monokote or are not proficient in its application is no excuse to brow beat, discourage, or otherwise snub anyone who can or wants to finish exclusively with those materials.

Unfortunately until the CL stunt experiences greater turn over, 20 point finishes will remain in the realm of paint only models. BOM will rule the day, and you will not be worthy if your frimary airplane is only a arf or a arc. Sorry you just won't be in the good old boys club, not really anyway, although no one will tell it to your face.

In the acceptence of new technology, and accepting rapid change the RC community wins hands down. Oh they have thier snobs to be sure, but in the RC community the snob are typically the ones with the latest and greatest toys, they are the ones who embrace change and new stuff the most. Kind of explains why participation is RC is so much greater than CL.

Now for a reality check. The photos below are all models finished exclusively with monokote with the exception of some accessories and perhaps a cowl the is painted. This is just a small representation, Short of paint fades and gradients, there is nothing that can be done with paint that can not be done using iron on coverings. So why is it that people in the CL community still hold the superiority attitude?

99.9% of the people in CL can't finish in paint as well as these models are finished in film.

 R%%%%
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline Neville Legg

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 01:17:34 PM »
I don't see too much evidence of a negative attitude towards iron-on coverings here? I can never get the stuff to stick for long enough, and it doesn't stiffen up the airframe like silk and dope does. Some modellers love it, some don't! Where do you get the idea that there is a prejudice towards the stuff? Not on SH surely   ;)
Too much ranting and you'll blow a fuse!   ;D

Cheers
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(not) Descartes

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 01:27:18 PM »
I have no problem with folks that want to use iron-on, and I'm in awe of folks who can do top-notch jobs with the stuff.

I can't -- the best covering jobs I've done have involved silkspan & dope (and haven't been close to 20 point finishes).  I'll be using polyspan & dope for my next "serious" finish, because I know I can do a lot better with it than I can do with a 'coat.  But if your plane is sitting next to mine at a contest and gets top appearance points, I'm not going to sneer at it even if it's covered in Saran Wrap and donkey dung.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 01:41:32 PM »
I don't see too much evidence of a negative attitude towards iron-on coverings here? I can never get the stuff to stick for long enough, and it doesn't stiffen up the airframe like silk and dope does. Some modellers love it, some don't! Where do you get the idea that there is a prejudice towards the stuff? Not on SH surely   ;)
Too much ranting and you'll blow a fuse!   ;D

Cheers

No one outright shows prejudice against iron on coverings. But in many posts you see some remarks that hint at it.

For example else where on this site is posted.

Statement

"I hate plastic coverings and prefer dope."


Reply

"I'm with you about the plastic covering as I only use it for sport models like for trainers and such.  On my stunt machines there is only Polyspan and silkspan w/dope for finishing."


Now the Intiial Statement I can understand, the individual just does not like using the iron on, perhaps they had a bad experience with it, but it is the reply that is troubling, where the individual feels that iron on coverings are good enough for his or others sport fliers, and trainers but certtainly not good enough for stunt machines.

I've been on this site off and on since 2007 and this same attitude persists, and pretty much persisted since iron on coverings were brought to market. It is sad that some of the people that retreads and newby's listen to and sometimes Idolize retain such prejduice's, it does no one a service.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline John Desrosiers

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 02:46:56 PM »
WOW

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 04:14:26 PM »
Peter....I'm in agreement with you.  I have heard enough BARF comments and $coat comments that I am totally sick of them.  It is a prejudice and the people that use dope, silk, tissue, etc do a great job...but there are some of us out here that can't usde them for health reasons and I am sure other reasons....such as useing dope in an apartment will get you evicted, etc.  I say, stop with the snide comments about our preferred covering methods and wether we want to use ARFs, etc.  And to anyone that says these comments are not being made here, needs to actually read the posts.  Its everywhere.
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 04:41:08 PM »
Hi Ty

No, I made it clear, that it is never against anyone specifically.  It, never is, as it would be totally uncool to do so, also, it is not as bad as it used to be, years back when, if you decided to use the paved circle where when the some of the top guys were, and you would

1 be asked to fly off the grass circles
2 be given condesending, or dirty looks
3 at best be totally ignored, being deemed unworthy.

Face it, if you were totally new and inexperienced, and reading through many of the posts, you could easily conclude that ARF's are exclusively for rank beginners and those with no serious interest, oh and BTW, all those non significant ARF models are covered with equalling boring low performance undesireable iron on film. Then, and if you must, then at least get a ARC and cover and paint it the real way. At least then you are not totally looked on with distain.

Deny that, there are not a number of people on this site that have not as much as said so. Perhaps it is because in the CL stunt activity thete are so very few people who can really do up a winning film finish.That seems to be really in the domain of the Top RC guys.

Funny how alot of what is embraced in the RC community is shunned in CL Stunt. Just, read any number of BOM threads. I bet, if asked this question today, "If presented with 2 equally impressive airplanes one monokote the other silk and paint, which would you give 20 points to?" You still would have most judges give the nod to the silk and dope, which is the same answer I got when I asked it 10 years ago.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 06:02:19 PM »
I bet, if asked this question today, "If presented with 2 equally impressive airplanes one monokote the other silk and paint, which would you give 20 points to?" You still would have most judges give the nod to the silk and dope, which is the same answer I got when I asked it 10 years ago.

So, don't tell 'em what the planes are covered with.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Iron on coverings (Rant)
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 09:33:45 AM »
Boy, when I first started reading this, I thought who just gave Peter a wedgie!   I hae been at it long enough to have seen all the different materials we use or are using.  I have known FF, RC and CL  people or met them thru the years to realize that there are all types.   Yes there are the elitists that think everything should be done their way.   Then there are those that come up and look at the poorly built plane and start helping instead of making remarks.  I still remember one individual in the RC club that tried to build planes from discards.   Some were pretty horrible, but with adjustments they flew.   As a teenager I remember a young man in the club that had a learning disability.   His models were not the best and neither was the old O&R he was using.  But, he could start it and fly until the poor engine lost a power.   Then he would taxi until the power came back up.  I would help him as everybody else was busy.  After every flight he had a big smile and a thank you.   Anyway it doesn't matter what facet of modelling we do there will be ELITIST.  Like my retired pastor would tell us once in a while during a sermon,  "We can't hate people, we just like some a little more than others". H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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