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Author Topic: Good Film coverings, other questions  (Read 2940 times)

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Good Film coverings, other questions
« on: January 23, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »
I am about to cover a Vector ARC.  Actually, I thought I posted this but can't find it. 

What are the best or better coverings?   I've read a lot about Ultracote and Monokote.   Is Toughlon - the replacement for Sig Aerokote good?

How about Brodak Film.

How do I put it on big areas like the fuselage?   Is that where we use the wood pecker?

How do I put cover designs over the bottom coat?

Should I cover the surfaces first with Clear Dope?

Allen Eshleman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 04:10:16 PM »
I prefer Ultracoat.  I can make Monocoat work, but it's more frustrating.

I've had mixed success with other brands -- sometimes the cheap stuff works great, sometimes it's a disaster.  I couldn't tell you specifically about the Brodak or the Sig stuff, but I've heard that it's OK.

You use the perforators over large expanses of wood (that's also where you curse Monocoat if you're used to Ultracoat -- you always need more heat over wood, to get the underlying wood hot, too.  Monocoat always seems to need more, and goes through this really ugly wrinkly stage before it looks nice.  Sometimes it never looks nice no matter how much heat you put into it).

Designs in Ultracoat iron on, and you'll never get rid of the last few bubbles.  Monocoat can be made to look much better -- look up "the Windex method" for a full treatment.

I don't prepare the wood with clear dope -- but then, if I'm using plastic, I'm ready to accept that I'll see a bit of wood grain through the covering.  If you don't want that, then painting it with something and sanding off the fuzzies is probably necessary.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 12:40:06 PM »
Don't ever seal the wood if you are using any of the plastic coverings.  Just make sure all surfaces to be covered are sanded smooth and dusted.   Monokote,  Coverite, Solarfilm and SLC take practice and patience to do right.   Tower Hobbies used to have a video on using Monokote.  Being the skin flint that I am, they waste too much material.  Even dope and silkspan take practice and patience.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline scott matthews

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 03:14:33 PM »
Can you apply Monokote pieces on top of Ultrakote by using the windex method?

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 03:33:07 PM »
Can you apply Monokote pieces on top of Ultrakote by using the windex method?

Yes.  The magic seems to be between the Windex and the Monocoat adhesive, not whatever you're sticking it to.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 08:18:02 PM »
Scott, you just asked my question.  Sounds like monokote on top of ultracote is a winner!

What about getting it to look nice on larger surfaces like the fuselage areas and stab?

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 08:35:14 AM »
Funny I just used the Windex to apply my Monokote graphics.   Paper towels  to squeeze the moisture from under he Monokote.   I spray the area with Windex and clean before starting.   Then another sprits of Windex and lay down the Monokote.   Be care as it will move when you first start rubbing it down.   Work from center out.  A couple of days later I did use the trim irn where the edges didn't quit adhere for some reason.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 10:45:32 AM »
Was the base coat Monokote or Ultracote?

Allen Eshleman

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 11:08:12 AM »
Here's something that's perhaps more to the point:

The wings on this plane was covered with tag ends of rolls that I had sitting around.  One wing of this plane is covered in Monocoat, the other in Ultracoat (and no, I can't remember now which is which).  The spanwise stripes are painted with Rustoleum, the AMA number and the 'oh no' face are cut out of red Monocoat and applied with Windex.  They went on exactly the same to both surfaces, and they've lasted the same, too (well, the numbers didn't hold the wing on when I crashed it at speed, but still...)

(and, fyi, the fuselage is painted with Rustoleum -- only the horizontal stab and wings are 'coated).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 01:05:55 PM »
Does the rustoleum need anything else with it.  Is it sprayed or brushed?  Is it fuel proof?

Offline dirty dan

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »
The best resources for film-over-film finishes are on SSW. Several lengthy but quite complete threads. Search for Windex.

Dan
Dan Rutherford

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 01:22:20 PM »
Does the rustoleum need anything else with it.  Is it sprayed or brushed?  Is it fuel proof?

Only the Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel in non-metallic colors is fuel proof.  But if you give it a couple of weeks to cure out, the Gloss Protective Enamel is good stuff.  Unfortunately, most of the "finishing" systems that are recommended for Rustoleum involve lower layers that aren't fuel proof -- I've been finding that the areas under my fuel tanks (on profile models) tend to get a little wrinkled, and dings and dents in the front of the model tend to get wrinkled patches around them.  That's not too much of an issue for me -- I go through airplanes pretty quick -- but it's a strike against Rustoleum if you don't.

If you take Flying Models, dig out the May or June (I think) 2010 (I'm sure) issue -- look for an article titled "finishing the Oriental" by Allen Brickhaus.  It details the whole bare wood (and bare 'coat) to Rustoleum process.

You can also do a search here on "Rustoleum", perhaps along with "Polycrylic" and come up with a lot of info.

You probably want to spray the Rustoleum with rattle-cans, but if you have the equipment you can buy the brush-on stuff, thin it with acetone, and spray it with a spray gun.  I can't imagine being able to brush it on and have it look nice without weighing a ton.

I once mentioned that I just spray Rustoleum straight onto 'coat, without scuffing it, backed by the fact that Mr. Brickhaus didn't say anything about that in his article, and got scolded (Hi Dan).  It's true -- after about six months, your Rustoleum over unscuffed 'coat will start to chip slightly.  I tend to solve this problem by crashing my planes before then -- the big square patches, the rips, and the scuff marks as big as Texas do tend to draw the eye away from the minuscule chips.  Scuff things anyway.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 07:23:49 PM »
I just used some Sig Aerokote, Navy Blue on a wing for a 1/2 a model.  It worked up really nice.  It seems tough and can take a lot of heat.  I have enough left over for a major part of the Vector if I so choose.

What have been your experiences with Aerokote?                                      Now Toughlon

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 06:32:08 PM »
From 25 years ago: Seen here at Whittier Narrows, c.1988, this profile Yak-9 (AJ's Free Flight Service kit) was finished 100% with Monokote.  Functioning flaps; no gear; hand-launched; OS .35FP, 10-5 Top Flite, K&B 100 fuel.  It was a lot of work, and a lot of fun in flight - but after 25 or 30 flights some of the seams began to come unglued.  Never did that again.
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 10:43:10 AM »
In my post of Monokote graphics,  the P47 is Brodak Olive Drab dope,  the RMT is Monokote on wings and stab/elevator.  Now if you want to make  a complete Monokote job from bare wood up,  buff it with Scotch Brite Pad and do a top coat of clear. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 02:14:40 PM »
I posted too quick about the virtues or Aerokote.  I am having having a lot of trouble with the edges curling up, especially the edges that are on top of other Aerokote or film.  Any suggestions?  I can't seem to get smooth finish where there's film on film.

Also -how do I make a good seal where the wing meets the profile doped fuselage?


Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 08:51:47 PM »
Is ultracote pearl purple harder to use than other colors?

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 05:31:16 AM »
Are the pearls a metallic type look?

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 09:55:26 AM »
Are the pearls a metallic type look?
That's hard to describe if you haven't seen it before.  I'm tempted to tell you to just go to a hobby shop and look, or if that won't help, stop by auto painting operations and auto paint stores until you find one willing to let you look at paint chips.

Pearlescent looks more like metallic than a solid coat does, but it's a softer and just plain different effect than metallic.

You really need to see them in person, or at least see a movie of the three (solid, pearl and metallic) together -- the effect is far most pronounced when you're moving.

This all complicated by the fact that you can put in amounts of pearl that vary from none at all to so much it's tacky -- which means that sometimes a custom paint job will have just enough hint of pearl to leave you examining the car or plane in question in the bright sun for a good long time, trying to decide if it's there or not.  I assume that the purple pearl Ultracoat has pearl somewhere between "definitely enough" and "tacky", but I haven't actually seen the stuff.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 10:08:32 AM »
Hi All,

       To those who have worked with the ultracote pearls,  what is your take?

Also,  is there a way, per above to avoid the curling edges in Aerokote?

Also, I've read that it's hard to iron or Windex graphics over dark colors.  Can it be done effectively - like yellow over dark blue,  Red over dark blue.

        or
should I start with a light base, white, sky blue, cream pink - or are there other light colors?


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 09:35:27 AM »
I posted too quick about the virtues or Aerokote.  I am having having a lot of trouble with the edges curling up, especially the edges that are on top of other Aerokote or film.  Any suggestions?  I can't seem to get smooth finish where there's film on film.

Also -how do I make a good seal where the wing meets the profile doped fuselage?



Something I do and they do not show it on the how to videos I have.   I use lots of paper towels and a cleaner on the area where I am going to have an overlap of covering.   You also may having the heat too high on your iron.   I know I have to watch out when I go from Monokote to another covering.   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 09:54:16 AM »
Also, I've read that it's hard to iron or Windex graphics over dark colors.  Can it be done effectively - like yellow over dark blue,  Red over dark blue.

Hard in what way?  I just Windexed some white Monocoat trim onto a red wing with no noticeable differences over Windexing the same red Monocoat over the same white on a different plane.

'course, if it's a longevity issue, then I can't comment -- "good and solid after one day of flying" isn't much of a testimonial.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Good Film coverings, other questions
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 08:56:51 AM »
That is white Monokote over the dark blue circle and olive drab on the P-47.   Same white Monokote on the lighter blue.  Put them on using the Windex method.   One blue circle was lifting at the edges after a couple of days and I heat it with the little trim iron.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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