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Author Topic: film compatibility  (Read 1224 times)

Offline Richard Koehler

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film compatibility
« on: December 04, 2009, 03:09:46 PM »
I assumed that I could use various brands of Iron on films interchageably, well maybe not.  I tried ironing Ultracoat to Black Baron and it didn't stick.  When I tried the reverse, sticking Black Baron to Ultracoat it seemed to work fine.  Anyone have any experiences like this, with other brands of film that they would be willing to share?  Thanks S?P

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2009, 10:33:03 PM »
I don't have a list of every film I've tried, but most of them are fairly compatible. Never had one not stick to the other. However, I have melted some low-temp film trying to put regular film over it. Gotta watch out for that!
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Offline Larry Fulwider

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 08:54:07 AM »
. . . However, I have melted some low-temp film trying to put regular film over it. Gotta watch out for that!

Yes. I have put Brodak film (because it is lower temperature, for trim) over Monokote, no problem with sticking. However, all film to film edges (same brand or different brand) should be brushed with trim solvent, do you agree?

I have never tried sanding the film on overlap areas, but it seems like that should help. Anyone tried that?

   Larry Fulwider

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 01:25:54 PM »
When using any of the iron films to cover a plane I try to stay with the same brand like dope.  But, as stated it can be done with the lower temp film over the higher temp.  Also I doing the same brand of film I clean the surfaces  where the film is going to over lap or be on top of it mate material.  If you look real close you will see most film has a very slight oily surface. 
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 04:11:28 AM »
Yes. I have put Brodak film (because it is lower temperature, for trim) over Monokote, no problem with sticking. However, all film to film edges (same brand or different brand) should be brushed with trim solvent, do you agree?


Larry, not one time in my modeling life have I ever even tried any trim solvent. Maybe that's why my iron on finishes have been mediocre at best.
-Clint-

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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 03:14:43 PM »
What I'm not sure about is if Trim Solvent really works with anything but monokote. It's suppose to activate the glue without heat but it didn't seem to work when I tried it on Ultracote. Also not sure if it has a shelf life or if the formula has changed, think my bottle is 11 or 12 years old.. Seems to still work fine with Monokote.

Does Ultracote have it's own version, never saw it advertised.

Offline Larry Fulwider

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 10:26:15 AM »
What I'm not sure about is if Trim Solvent really works with anything but monokote. It's suppose to activate the glue without heat but it didn't seem to work when I tried it on Ultracote. . . .


Here are some facts (followed by some guesses). First, if you purchase Brodak film, the instructions emphasize the the necessity of sealing the edges with trim solvent. Second, Brodak does not sell a trim solvent  :o  . Third, no Brodak ARF instruction sheet (AFAIK) mentions trim solvent. Fourth, Brodak ARFs are famous for having the covering peel back.

The Top Flite trim solvent "works" with Brodak film. Low temperature hot melt formulae are pretty much standard across industries (that knowledge from adhesive chemists from the book industry, including Borden, National Adhesive, Peter Cooper, and others). However, hot melts are  extremely sensitive to their (petroleum) suppliers, and an "insignificant change" in raw material specs can make a batch of adhesive fall out of spec pretty easily. Also, for unknown reasons, the "cooking" process can have variation, resulting in hot melts with differing solubility (for example) even in consecutive batches made from the same batch of raw materials. In short, making a low temperature hot melt is not quite as easy as making consistent baclava  ;) . The higher temperature hot melts (350 degree) are far, far more consistent batch to batch.

My guess -- always use trim solvent on any brand of film. It will work a lot of the times. Sometimes it won't. UltraKote may be a case where it never works ?? I'll try a test, which, of course, will only partly answer the question, even if I get a bond.

Low temp hot melts are similar to adhesive tape -- the bond strength continues to build for at least 24 hours, which means trim solvent may also take a while to take full effect.

     Larry Fulwider

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: film compatibility
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2009, 02:58:43 PM »
      I've never used the solvent myself. My father had a bottle and it appeared to be water like consistency. How do you apply it? Does it run ? If so does it mar the surrounding area? I used to seal the dges using polyurethane. This presents problems as well mostly yellowing which looks like &^%$ after a year. I always figured the solvent was used so no heat was needed over the existing covering. I believe this is where the Windex method would substantially work better. I'm not disputing that the trim shouldn't be sealed its just I've never done it. I just typically clean the area well with alcohol prior to ironing it on and had good results doing so. Ken


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