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Author Topic: Dyed silk span?  (Read 2311 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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Dyed silk span?
« on: June 27, 2013, 02:38:35 PM »
An old Flying Models article detailed covering with silkspan. One detail was glossed over, specifically how to dye silkspan. How do you do this with out pre shrinking it?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 06:25:40 PM »
Larry, I have not dyed silk but I have rinsed it in water to take out any sizing that was in it. I have found that silk stretches when wet and pre soaking it will not effect applying it later. When you wet it to put it on it will expand again and shrink as it drys. I have since applied a lot of silk without rinsing and have had no problems from sizing.

OOps! You were talking about silkspan not silk. But it is the same. I have dyed silkspan with of all things coffee to make it a light tan. It worked fine when I put it on and acts just like silk in that it will expand again when wetted to apply. I covered my Taurus with it about 12 years ago and it still looks great.
Jim Kraft

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 07:33:09 PM »
Can't say much for Rit dye and silkspan.  About 40 years ago I dyed some silkspan deep red (or maroon) and applied it to a Jetco 'Topkick' A/1 (F1H today) towline glider.

A few hours in the sun at Gardner Field, the old Taft (CA) site, and it quickly began to fade to an almost gray color.  Never did see the final result, since the model was lost out-of-sight, overhead, on an official flight.  Either the D/T failed, or the thermal was outrageous.  At any rate, I never saw it again.

With Rit, some have advised adding salt or vinegar to the hot water dye solution.  Don't know if that works, as I never tried dyeing silkspan again.....at least not with Rit.
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 09:19:05 PM »
I bought some dyes from Aerodyne.  I've been mixing them with clear dope and brushing over same color silk or tissue.  They seem to hold up well in the sun.  I imagine spraying with them would work even better. 

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 09:22:08 AM »
I vaguely remember the gentleman that sold me my first package of Poly-Span.  He also sold me a small bottle of dye to mix in the clear dope to give it some color.   Once mixed, you sprayed the covering after it had been applied until you got the depth of color you wanted.   I learned real fast that once the color was right do not brush clear over it.  In fact don't brush anything over it,  Spray the rest of the finish and graphics unless the graphics are stick on.   

In my stash somewhere in the shop I have a bundle of pre-dyed heavy weight silkspan.   Used the black on a Nobler and the gold on another plane.  If I can locate where it is hid I will see what colors I have left.
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 10:35:04 AM »
I have used colored silkspan in the past. Yellow and black. Colors would fade out the first year, the covering would become brittle and crack the second. Clear dope only. In contrast, I have silk span / colored dope finishes that have held up for 15 plus years. Decided that clear does not give enough protection from the sun on silkspan. For a clear or translucent finish polyspan is a better choice IMHO. The previously stated technique for dying will work. 8)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 10:57:16 AM by Balsa Butcher »
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 09:11:50 AM »
All interesting answers, but none of them addressed the original question.  Try again? S?P
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 11:01:23 AM »
Hi Larry,

You dye the silkspan just like anything else you want to dye.  The silkspan does not shrink from the process.  Silkspan relaxes when it is wet and by applying it wet and pulling it taught while it is wet, it tries to return to its original dimensions when drying.  Since it is secured around the edges, it can only appear to "shrink" while becoming very taught.

Better answer to the original question?

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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 06:55:00 PM »
Sorry, nope!

Dry applied silkspan has serious shrink the first time it is wet. Dope it on dry, wet it and it shrinks way smaller than the original size; kind of like a wool sweater or cotton shirt the first time you wash them.Yes, if you re wet it, it will expand and re shrink, but it does NOT retain that original dry shrink.

I want to know how to retain the original shrink factor that raw, dry silkspan has while dyeing it.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Offline GregArdill

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 03:16:07 AM »
Larry,

I've dyed both silk and tissue.

Put the mixed dye into a vessel big enough to take the material without folding, then lay the silk or tissue into the dye solution and leave it there for a short while.

Then lift the tissue out of the dye, making sure it doesn't fold back onto itself, and peg it to the clothes line. It's best not to do this in windy weather.

Once it's dry use it as usual.

I didn't do silkspan so I don't know if it still shrinks under heat.

Greg

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 10:59:09 AM »
Come on guys, if you dye it in water, it loses the initial dry shrink property. Since you used to be able to buy colored silkspan that did DRY shrink, how was that done?

I keep reading the same wrong answers here. Yes, you can dye silkspan and silk in water, but tht doesn't solve the preshrink problem.  How about Alcohol? Acetone? Nuclear waste? Anyone out there with a real solution?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2013, 10:12:36 AM »
In '67/'68, I built a Dicky Mathis "Excalibur" and dyed the silkspan in the bathtub. Yes, caught hell for it.  mw~ Oh, well. That was the only problem. Yes, I used water and RIT dye. And yes,  it did fade.

These days, I wouldn't do that. I would use sprayed on Kandy Koncentrate from the House of Kolor, or colored ink mixed into my reducer (aka thinner). Apply the silkspan stock white, then "dye" in after a few coats of clear. But then again, why not use PolySpan and have something that won't split after a few year?  H^^ Steve
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 11:23:55 AM »
On my Jamison special, I used red silk with dyed dope. It was intense! Having the covering already colored does make a difference. On my Baby Magician, i used stain on the wood parts and dye in the dope. Again it made a difference.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline GregArdill

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 12:34:25 AM »
Larry,

I did dye silk in a water based dye, and yes it still shrank on application. Both initially with water, then even more with dope (acetate)

If you're not liking the answers you're getting, do a couple of test samples and see if the answer you are expecting comes out of the tests.

Greg

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 06:47:55 PM »
Well, I had hopes that I woudn't have to do the experimentation myself, considering the thousnds (?) of hours experience here on Stunthangar. One can dream....  HB~>
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Don Hutchinson AMA5402

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 08:19:37 PM »
Larry- Dye the silkspan however you plan to do it and then stick it on the model before it dries! May be a slower process but should take care of your concerns.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2013, 10:30:22 PM »
What is so hard about answering my original question and stop giving me the same wrong answer.

I want to dye silkspan without losing the original dry shrink. I DO NOT WANT TO APPLY IT WET.

I already knew that works, but is a whole different solution that everyone is trying to stuff down my throat because they don't have the answer to what I am asking.

It is good to have alternatives offered (once, or maybe even twice, but not again and again and again (part of a raunchy limerick)), but how many times do I have to say that is not what I am looking for? If you go back through this thread, the same alternate answer is offered and rejected multiple times.

If you know how to dry dye silkspan I would LOVE to hear how. If you again want to tell me how to wet dye it and wet cover, your'e way too late to the party.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2013, 09:17:24 AM »
How can we dye anything with out it getting wet??? ??? ??? ???
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2013, 10:09:43 AM »
I see comments about using chalk to color tissue. Maybe that would work on silkspan. 

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2013, 02:30:07 PM »
Well, if you ever got an inkstain on your shirt..... D>K

I am going to try some dye dissolved in denatured alcohol, acetone, etc. if you guys are REAL nice I'll post the results. I figure to cut out a square of known size and measure it after dyeing.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2013, 09:06:55 PM »
Larry, what colors do you want.  I have a number of different colors of this and that, and might have what you want.

Incidentally, the dyes I got from Aerodyne were called 'tissue dyes".  You might contact them.  They seem to be very helpful.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 10:25:00 AM by Jim Thomerson »

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Dyed silk span?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2013, 04:11:46 PM »
Thanks Jim! I don't have an immediate, specific need, I just want to be prepared when such a need arises.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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