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Author Topic: dope coming off fillets  (Read 1150 times)

Offline Dudley Lang

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dope coming off fillets
« on: January 07, 2011, 06:05:06 PM »
I have been away from the sport a long time.  Used to build ringmasters in the 60's with clear dope only, no landing gear, hand launch and fly.  Now I am building a Brodak Magician and trying to put a decent finish on.  After I glued the wing in and the stabilizers, I mixed up some 45 minute epoxy with micro ballons and did a pretty good job on the  fillets.  Sanded the plane and started with clear dope.  I then sprayed  some Brodak primer on.  The primer is coming off the fillets.  What did I do wrong so that I can correct it before spraying color on?

Dudley Lang

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 06:51:19 PM »
I have not experienced this - however when I mix up the epoxy with microballoons, I would then redope with some tissue or carbon tissue. So set the surface. There could be something inside the epoxy causeing a reaction.
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 10:48:53 PM »
As Ty said, sand the fillets to get rid of the surface stuff and to give the dope a better mechanical grip. I would not put any covering like tissue or silkspan over them. I have then brushed on 50-50 thinned clear dope from one edge at a time and only half way or less onto the fillet. This allows shrinkage over less area as the dope dries, without the dope being stretched across the whole fillet. Ultimately the dope from each edge, and sometimes just the center, all mates. I do not wait extreme times between coats; so it doesn't take long - a day. So far, I have never had anything lift over my epoxy/microballoon or balsa fillets.

SK

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 02:05:22 PM »
Even after sanding.  Take a rag saturated with acetone and wipe down the fillet.  Even alcohol will take off the oily surface.   H^^
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2011, 02:44:20 PM »
I'm not a big nitrate fan but with fillits I brush on a few light coats of the stuff-after the curing, after the sanding, and after the acetone wipe and before applying buterate anything. Don't cover with silkspan, it will just pull off.  8)
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 08:09:34 PM »
I too agree that allowing dope to set longer is best and that carefully and briefly wiping with acetone can be benificial. I've used acetone, but sometimes just wiped with rubbing alcohol to eliminate the dust after sanding.

One thing I forgot to mention is that 30-minute epoxy has a much greater capacity for microballoons than one might think. I continue to add them until it becomes quite difficult to continue. This lightens the material, makes it more sandable, and probably makes a better surface for the dope to grip. Although it makes contouring a bit more difficult when the epoxy is liquid, it also helps it hold the shape you give it, as does holding the wings at a 45-degree roll angle, upright or inverted (I alternate them as the epoxy sets). Then sanding with your abrasive sheet wrapped around something cylindrical, with appropriate radius, completes the shape more easily.

SK

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 09:56:37 PM »
Yeah.  Leather is the ONLY way to go.  But even leather sometimes requires a bit of filling at the edges.  I treat every fillet like it was going to let go of the dope applied.  Plenty of "relaxer" (castor oil or similar additive), agressive sanding between coats, and constant observation.  If a bubble tries to appear, slice it and push it down with some good old Ambroid!

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 10:38:13 PM »
I think it's cleanliness issue.
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 12:36:49 PM »
Cleanliness and care. For me lifting is not a problem at all; it does not happen. I only use butyrate over them, rather than the reputedly more adhesive nitrate, and results are as good as anyone would want.

SK

Offline RC Storick

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 11:46:59 PM »
Just a thought? Hum what do I know.  Two things first is I have found epoxy and Microballoons to act as if they are greasy. Second never paint fillits. What I mean is let the dust cover them. Lifting comes from shrinkage and air trapped. So a dust coat with long dry times with lacquer base paints is desired.
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 01:22:14 PM »
I have been away from the sport a long time.  Used to build ringmasters in the 60's with clear dope only, no landing gear, hand launch and fly.  Now I am building a Brodak Magician and trying to put a decent finish on.  After I glued the wing in and the stabilizers, I mixed up some 45 minute epoxy with micro ballons and did a pretty good job on the  fillets.  Sanded the plane and started with clear dope.  I then sprayed  some Brodak primer on.  The primer is coming off the fillets.  What did I do wrong so that I can correct it before spraying color on?

Dudley Lang


Many times epoxy will cure with a waxy surface film, This will never take dope, as stated above make sure you clean them very well before paint.
I use also use thinner or acetone to clean off the film and then sand the fillets to help with adhesion. Keep the fillets thin on paint or they will bubble and lift no matter what you do

Randy

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: dope coming off fillets
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2011, 07:21:19 AM »
As Randy says, you need to clean the surface. However, I have never been able to make a satisfactory contour with the "wet-finger" technique anyway. So I have to sand with abrasive wrapped around an appropriately sized dowel. This has always removed the surface stuff, so far as I have seen, although I've sometimes used alcohol or acetone anyway, since it takes only a few seconds and removes dust. Smooth fillets don't really need much paint. So the process I recommended above doesn't take much time. For what it's worth, here are pictures I took this month of an unfinished Yak-9 (begun ca. 1961, fillets and Brodak dope applied in 2002) which has just been hanging in the basement for a few years -also, my flapless original's tail, during construction revision. The dope has shrunk some on the Yak, as you can see from the edges, but there's no lifting.

SK



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