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Author Topic: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components  (Read 1958 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« on: September 07, 2023, 07:50:37 AM »
Guys,
I was looking at the ingredients list for the Randoph Butyrate dope thinner and noticed that the first two ingredients are Toluene and Acetone. Has anyone trying just using either of these or 50/50 mix that you can easily get from Home Depot as thinner for Randoph Butyrate dope? Seems it would be a lot cheaper.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2023, 09:15:01 AM »
  If you look at the ingredients of a LOT of brands of lacquer thinner, it will say "acetone" or "100% acetone". I have been buying and using Kleen Strip from Home Depot like many others.
   Type at you later,
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2023, 02:15:34 PM »
  If you look at the ingredients of a LOT of brands of lacquer thinner, it will say "acetone" or "100% acetone". I have been buying and using Kleen Strip from Home Depot like many others.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

   That's interesting, I haven't seen that and what you can normally get at a hardware store around here is definitely not just straight acetone. For a while, we couldn't get regular oil-based paint thinner, due to the ongoing war with the CARB, and some of the substitute "paint thnner" was actually acetone, which of course was disastrous for most paint thinner uses. Last time I checked we could get mineral-spirit-based paint thinner again, but it's an ongoing game of "whack-a-mole" between the CARB and the hardware chains.

    Brett

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2023, 03:44:54 AM »
               I came across this when I purchased Dupli-Color lacquer thinner. Some cans even say on them virgin lacquer thinner but the can states 100% acetone.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2023, 07:36:26 PM »
Acetone does, in fact, thin lacquer. So the label is correct.

The cans of "lacquer thinner"  that I buy from Home Depot say "acetone" on the back.

When it's humid I retard them with a dash of Randolph retarder.  My aircraft paint dealer recommended that I quit paying DOUBLE for Randolph thinner and just use Certified or acetone.
Paul Smith

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2023, 10:13:13 PM »
   That's interesting, I haven't seen that and what you can normally get at a hardware store around here is definitely not just straight acetone. For a while, we couldn't get regular oil-based paint thinner, due to the ongoing war with the CARB, and some of the substitute "paint thnner" was actually acetone, which of course was disastrous for most paint thinner uses. Last time I checked we could get mineral-spirit-based paint thinner again, but it's an ongoing game of "whack-a-mole" between the CARB and the hardware chains.

    Brett

    Yeah, we have covered this ground before. I went around and bought quart cans of lacquer thinner from all the hardware stores , auto parts stores, and big box home improvement stores to to check them out and see what they were like. Almost everyone said "acetone" for the ingredients. This might be a regional thing. I remember when we could get DuPont 3608S thinner here in my area with no problem, and pretty reasonably priced. Back east, it was changed from an "S" to a "W" and it didn't work the same. DuPont is now called something else and I don't know what the hell they sell now! Somebody mentioned the Kleen Strip brand from Home Depot as working well with SIG dope and I have used that ever since when needed. This is just one of those instances where change isn't necessarily a good thing!!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline spare_parts

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2023, 06:42:35 AM »
I usually check the SDS when I'm looking for specifics, it's not always exact. The few SDS I looked at recently were much like this. https://sp.menardc.com/main/items/media/SUNNY001/SDS/SDS5613719.pdf Dupont 3608S https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/media/pdf/DUP-3608S-SDS-EN.pdf

Certainly local laws can change what you see on the shelf. California has neutered or banned a lot of products.

When reading about acetone toxicity years ago I was actually surprised at how tolerant the body is. Acetone is broken down in the liver as a normal process. If you've looked into the keto diet, you know it's it one of the ketones produced when the body is in ketosis (burning fats instead of carbs for energy). The other solvents are a much bigger problem.
Greg

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Butyrate dope thinner - ingredient components
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2023, 02:33:29 PM »
    Yeah, we have covered this ground before. I went around and bought quart cans of lacquer thinner from all the hardware stores , auto parts stores, and big box home improvement stores to to check them out and see what they were like. Almost everyone said "acetone" for the ingredients. This might be a regional thing. I remember when we could get DuPont 3608S thinner here in my area with no problem, and pretty reasonably priced. Back east, it was changed from an "S" to a "W" and it didn't work the same. DuPont is now called something else and I don't know what the hell they sell now! Somebody mentioned the Kleen Strip brand from Home Depot as working well with SIG dope and I have used that ever since when needed. This is just one of those instances where change isn't necessarily a good thing!!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

  There are really two things going on, one is the "whack-a-mole" trying to dodge various local air quality officials, and, changing the formula based on what solvents are cheapest when they go to buy it. The latter is presumably why one batch of Brodak dope is incompatible with the previous batch or suddently stops being fuel-resistant  and probably the same when Aero-Gloss "dope"/acrylic lacquer was still around.

   So, what you get from day to day varies, unless is is a product from one of the large automotive finish suppliers. That's also why I think it is a really good idea to avoid counting on hardware-store and other uncontrolled/undocumented products.

       Brett


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