Author Topic: Brodak Silkspan (Read 9080 times)

Lyle Spiegel · « **on:** January 02, 2015, 09:27:00 AM »

I just bought one pkg at LHS to try out. Interested to know if anyone has tried it and if so what was it like compared with SIG or K&S product?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2015, 03:42:20 PM »

Back when Sig was still selling silkspan, I bought a bunch. A bunch

Bill Little · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2015, 05:34:07 PM »

The Brodak silkspan doesn't seem as user friendly as the old Sig and K&S, just not the same. You can still get a great covering job with it, but it seems that it is just a bit tougher to do so.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

wwwarbird · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 02, 2015, 03:42:20 PM

Back when Sig was still selling silkspan, I bought a bunch. A bunch

Very wise move Randy, I wish I'd...

I've never tried any silkspan that I like even half as much as Sig's. I bought what I thought was a bunch about 7-8 years ago while attending the Sig C/L contest. I should have bought more, finishing up this current build I'm discovering that I'm pretty much out.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2015, 09:59:58 PM »

I found the Brodak silkspan to be more like heavy tissue than silkspan. No grain, less wet strength, less shrink and less puncture resistant than the old formula K&S and Sig. It is smooth and fills easy however seems to sag every time dope is sprayed on it. For the most part it would tighten up again as the dope dried however it never got as drum tight as the good stuff used to, even with a few coats of Supercoat (shrink) clear substituting for the Lite-coat I prefer. For the most part I have switched to polyspan...but still prefer the old silkspan.

Lyle Spiegel · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2015, 04:46:25 AM »

Sounds like best strategy would be to use the Brodak stuff only on solid surfaces thus reducing amount of original silkspan needed for given project. I guess it's time to try out polyspan or switch over to iron-on. I fininished one of my three Vector 40 and one ARC Smoothie with Ultracote, and results were ok.
Thanks everyone for comments

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:43:25 AM »

Lyle, I agree with what everyone else has previously said. I also noticed that Brodaks silk span had one side that was rougher than the other. I covered one wing with it, disliked the result so much that I tossed the rest of it. I have used Polyspan for years but wNted to try the Brodaks stuff. Stick with Polyspan.

Mike

Dick Pacini · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:49:36 AM »

I don't know if this is the same stuff but Brodak says they have a limited supply of the heavy silkspan.

http://brodak.com/new-back-in-stock/silkspan-heavy.html

wwwarbird · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:56:45 PM »

Quote from: Dick Pacini on January 05, 2015, 08:49:36 AM

I don't know if this is the same stuff but Brodak says they have a limited supply of the heavy silkspan.

http://brodak.com/new-back-in-stock/silkspan-heavy.html

I'd noticed that too and ordered some last week to check it out. Not impressed, it's approaching the texture and thickness of an old brown grocery bag.

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2015, 06:02:25 AM »

I have done some work trying out materials to replace our silkspan with alternatives. I have used Jap tissue and Campbell's tissue on the solid wood areas of a coupe of models with polyspan on the wings. Works great! For some OTS and Classic models i think I will switch to silk for the open bays.

CF veil is the best stuff I have used for wood areas, but that stuff adds up quick in the wallet part, while it doesn't seem to really add a whole lot.

If I were trying to go for the front row at the NATS, i would use a foam wing fully sheeted and cover the entire model with CF veil. The major pluses i see for cf is how easy it fills and creates a flat surface and it is a bit more resistant to small surface dings.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

wwwarbird · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2015, 10:06:08 PM »

Over the past few evenings I've experimented with some of the Brodak heavy silkspan I recently purchased. I was thinking (hoping) that it might be a good replacement for use over solid wood areas after my supply of Sig medium runs out.

Giving it a try, I don't feel that it acts like silkspan at all. Granted, it's quite a bit heavier than the Sig stuff, but rubbing it between the fingers and thumb the material doesn't even really feel like silkspan to me. It feels more like coarse paper.

I tested on a nice flat, sanded, 10" x 4" sheet of 1/4" balsa. I put down my normal two heavy coats of 50/50 Brodak dope and let it dry, sanding lightly between coats. I came back the next night and gave it a very light sanding with 600 in preparation for the "silkspan". First, I wet the material thoroughly by dragging it through a pan of water, which is also my normal routine. Then I laid it on, pulled it out all nice and flat, and started brushing on more 50/50 dope for attachment. It was very difficult to "push" the dope through the material as normal for attachment. It required a LOT of dope, using heavy wet coating with very aggressive brushing and pushing to get the dope worked through the material. Even with that I was very far from satisfied with the quality of the overall attachment. It also took much longer than normal to dry because the material is very thick and holds a lot of water. When it was completely dry most of the edges and corners would still lift easily and will require more coats of dope to attempt sealing those edges. Also, after it's dry when I hold it to the light just right it has a patchy, waxy looking sheen to it.

I don't know what this stuff is, but I really don't like it.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2015, 02:20:07 PM »

To me two coats of dope is not enough on the bare wood. I put on enough that it starts to get a shine to it. I have used heavy weight silk span, Poly-span and poly-ester cloth. I had to then the dope almost to the consistency of water. In fact I think I went about 90% thinner with Brodak dope out of the can. That stuff is thick.

EddyR · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2015, 07:59:17 PM »

Just ordered a kit from Brodak and added 10 sheets of the so called heavy silkspan. What you are all describing sounds like what we use in the 1950's. We use to take and add a complete tube of glue to 6-8 ounces of thinned dope. Many of the wings we were doing had undercamber and it held. Also on the Ringmaster type of airfoil we used it so the covering would not pull away. I have two planes covered in 1952 and 1965 and the covering is still good. I will know in a few days if it is the same. I remember a friend used Testers dope and it took a year to tighten. Testers was none tightening in the 1950's.
That old silkspan had no grain and you could run it any direction and it did not pull down between ribs like later silkspan did. I still have some of it and will compare it to Brodak silkspan. My old supply is rotted. Bob Gieseke use to use red Jap tissue. I know as I supplied it to him for one of his little red Noblers. That stuff has to be put on dry it is so thin.He would double cover the open panels and if filled in two coats. I did all my I/beam models that way back in the 1960's.

Ed

Don Jenkins · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2015, 06:41:08 AM »

As of this morning, the Brodak Site indicates they sold out the heavy silkspan. Hey Ed, what kit did you get?

Don

EddyR · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2015, 06:59:45 AM »

Don
I was not in the mood to cut all those Ibeam ribs so I ordered a-----

----- . It is not classic or old time. It looks a lot line a classic model but has a big airfoil and only a few have been built.
Maybe some would like to guess?

I will email you when the kit gets here. It was shipped Monday. Brodak did not say they were out of the silkspan.
Ed

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2015, 10:03:07 AM »

I covered my "Trivial Legacy" (That's a Legacy Trivialized) with two coats of Jap tissue..........................Never again will I use this method. Oh sure it looks fine now but what a B*&^% to work with. (and that is with a capital "B")
Its "Polyspan" on all open surfaces for me from now on.

And CF on solid ones.

Cheers, Jerry

PS: And yes, PS will go around corners.

EddyR · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2015, 12:02:44 PM »

Gerald
You are correct it is a pain. I did hundreds of FF models back in the 1940-50's with it and it takes a lot of practice. It is OK on small models but a large one like yours would be very difficult. I use to use it over light silkspan on combat models in it was better than silk. I used thinner to stick it down to a doped silkspan surface. Never try and use it on balsa bodies as it will not go around and curved surface. I shrunk it with thinner.
Ed

Randy Powell · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2015, 04:17:45 PM »

I found a source of light silk and am thinking I may go that way when I run out of my stash of silkspan - which will happen eventually.

Bill Little · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2015, 06:03:33 PM »

Aaron built a Brodak T-Bird I. He used Jap tissue on all the solid surfaces and the kit silkspan on the wings. It went on amazingly well, but the first time out the bays started splitting on the wings. Brand new Model! (and plastisizer was used in the dope) The Jap (possibly commercial) Tissue did real well on the solid wood. I have use Tissue on several models but not to cover large open bay wings.

I have quite a bit of Sig and K&S silkspan which I will be using and I will use the Tom Morris Polyspan (or whatever he is calling it now! LOL!!) on all my large open bay wings. Great stuff!
(my OTS models will get some lightweight silk)

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Larry Borden · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2015, 09:09:38 PM »

I get silk from Dharma Trading Co. www.dharmatrading.com
Comes in white only, but can be dyed. I have been using this for about 4 years, inexpensive when compared to what a square yar costs at LHS.

EddyR · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2015, 11:12:20 AM »

I received the silkspan from Brodak today. It is as I described above. It is typical 1950's silkspan,non directional and right between heavy and medium silkspan. I will try it in a few weeks on a old time model I am building.
Ed

wwwarbird · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2015, 09:12:46 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on January 27, 2015, 10:06:08 PM

Over the past few evenings I've experimented with some of the Brodak heavy silkspan I recently purchased. I was thinking (hoping) that it might be a good replacement for use over solid wood areas after my supply of Sig medium runs out.

Giving it a try, I don't feel that it acts like silkspan at all. Granted, it's quite a bit heavier than the Sig stuff, but rubbing it between the fingers and thumb the material doesn't even really feel like silkspan to me. It feels more like coarse paper.

I tested on a nice flat, sanded, 10" x 4" sheet of 1/4" balsa. I put down my normal two heavy coats of 50/50 Brodak dope and let it dry, sanding lightly between coats. I came back the next night and gave it a very light sanding with 600 in preparation for the "silkspan". First, I wet the material thoroughly by dragging it through a pan of water, which is also my normal routine. Then I laid it on, pulled it out all nice and flat, and started brushing on more 50/50 dope for attachment. It was very difficult to "push" the dope through the material as normal for attachment. It required a LOT of dope, using heavy wet coating with very aggressive brushing and pushing to get the dope worked through the material. Even with that I was very far from satisfied with the quality of the overall attachment. It also took much longer than normal to dry because the material is very thick and holds a lot of water. When it was completely dry most of the edges and corners would still lift easily and will require more coats of dope to attempt sealing those edges. Also, after it's dry when I hold it to the light just right it has a patchy, waxy looking sheen to it.

I don't know what this stuff is, but I really don't like it.

Well, I tried out some more of the Brodak silkspan tonight, to cover a solid sheet stab and elevator that was sanded and prepped with three heavy coats of 50/50 Brodak dope. This time I gave the medium a try, hoping it might be better than the heavy version that I described above. I could tell no difference between the two. Imagine trying to cover your model using paper from an old brown grocery bag. That is the closest thing I can relate this to, it just plain sucks to use.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2015, 09:29:13 PM »

And I fine I'm glad I have 30 sheets of original Sig SGM haning. around

wwwarbird · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2015, 09:45:42 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 04, 2015, 09:29:13 PM

And I fine I'm glad I have 30 sheets of original Sig SGM haning. around

That's 28 more than me.

EddyR · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015, 09:19:09 PM »

I did the Bearcat wing with the tissue I got from Brodak in February. I bought all he had at that time. It went on very easy and came out drum tight. I did one coat off clear and it took about a hour to dry back drum tight. It filled very well for only one coat. It is strong when wet.
It does not have a smooth side,both seem the same texture. Brodak doesn't have any more so It doesn't mater.

Ed

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #25 on:** May 15, 2015, 05:58:42 AM »

Based on a blurb here from someone (sorry don't remember the source) I ordered silkspan from Easy Built models on the web. It got here yesterday and it looks good- like the real deal to me. It has the look and texture of the GM medium grade of the good old days. It's cut strangely in a 17 1/2" x 10 ft. roll but that's no big deal. It seems a little pricey at $9 for that piece but hey- just glad to get good stuff. Going to order a few more rolls. Will be trying it out on the new I-Beamer I'm building in a couple weeks.

Dave

EddyR · « **Reply #26 on:** May 15, 2015, 06:37:38 AM »

Just a update on my Bearcat wing done with the last of the heavy silkspan from Brodak. As someone said after the first coat it had a rough surface. I sanded it with very fine 500 and did another thin coat. It was completely filled and very tight but had a slight fuzz to it so I sanded it again and did another thin coat. Almost perfect but this material seems very strong so I did a very thin coat of talk sealer then sanded it again and it is flat and smooth. Almost ready for color.
It pulled up tight after the first coat in less than a hour.
After the first coat of thin clear I had the feeling I was going to need to bury this in clear to get rid of the fuzz. I was not going to do that so I tried sanding and it worked well.I applied extra doap on the ribs between sanding.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #27 on:** June 24, 2015, 12:32:23 PM »

The Brodak silkspan I have used is their nr. BH-626. It does have a smooth and a rough side, but it is easy to tell the correct side. It has good wet strength, and seals well (I don't know how many coats because I spray after the first brush coat).

This product seems as good as the K&S silkspan I have used in the past.

I didn't pay any attention to grain, so I surely got it installed both ways, with no issues.

Floyd

Lyle Spiegel · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2015, 04:46:32 AM »

While attending 2015 Brodak Flyin I had tour of factory. The lady who gave the tour was long time emloyee and very knowledgeable. I asked her about availability of Brodak silkspan and if it is same stuff that was sold by K&S and SIG. supplier. Her respose was that they have good stock supply of both light and medium grade and ship out quite a bit of both, and that is comes from same mfg source that was supplying. K&S and Sig. I'd love to know who is buying all that silkspan but didn't ask that question.

Author Topic: Brodak Silkspan (Read 9080 times)

Mike Griffin