Author Topic: Best finish (Read 2762 times)

john e. holliday · « **on:** March 23, 2009, 09:18:56 AM »

Read the posts about best finishes. It slays me when I see this type stuff. I have seen all of them thru the years and tried most of them. Any finish is dependent on patience and practice. I would say more on patience.

As Sparky has pointed out many times the start of a great finish is the sand paper. Even with Monokote. Any blemishes not taken care of before the primer coats will show up later. My P-39 is an example of places that did not get proper care before the primer.

A good automotive clear will run right along with a clear dope top coat and vice versa if the base coats are done properly. I admire the finishes that the guys/gals get with whatever type material they use to get that 19 or 20 point finish. I guess I will never get there as I use what I am in the mood for at the time of finishing. Having fun, DOC Holliday

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:05:59 AM »

Good point, Doc. I tend to experiment, but more and more, I go with materials known to work. I'm limiting my experimentation now to colors and additives like pearls or flakes. But the base material is staying the same. It works consistently and is one less thing to stress over.

edit for typo

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:14:23 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 23, 2009, 11:05:59 AM

Good point, Doc. I tend to experiment, but more and more, I go with materials known to work. I'm limiting my experimenttation now to colors and additives like pearls or flakes. But the base material is saying the same. It works consistently and is one less thing to stress over.

With the EPA's constant adjustment to formulations, experimentation with materials is becoming more and more dicy. I, like Randy. am gravitating toward known materials and in some cases, known systems.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:21:05 PM »

RAndy,

I've sort of gotten over being "surprised". Just never seems to come out well.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2009, 04:05:40 PM »

Every time I do a dope finish I swear It will be my last but when it comes right down to it I'm afraid to try anything else.. I have so much trouble with finishing because I seem to always run out of patience and screw something up. I know I can fix a screw up with dope, it's really pretty forgiving. Afraid if I change to something else the learning curve will start all over and I'll end up with a disaster.

Finishing sucks...

Allan Perret · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on March 23, 2009, 04:05:40 PM

Finishing sucks...

The better you get the less it sucks. Couple of years ago before I retired I stocked up on both Brodak and Sig dopes. I had been saying that when all this dope is gone I'm gonna go to another system. But in the process of using it up I gettin the hang of it and finally feeling comfortable with it. So now I will likely stay with dope, but switch over to Randolph.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:56:35 PM »

Quote from: Allan Perret on March 23, 2009, 05:33:15 PM

The better you get the less it sucks. .

Well, sort of. Some of the surprises you use to get while learning how to do it are gone. But, I find myself getting fussier and fussier about the final outcome. What was once a great finish is now considered crap. Makes the finishing process just as long and frustrating as before, but for different reasons.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:29:54 PM »

Kinda like learning the pattern, what you used to not even know was wrong, is now a glaring mistake! such is the lure and challange of our event

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2009, 12:16:41 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on March 26, 2009, 09:29:54 PM

Kinda like learning the pattern, what you used to not even know was wrong, is now a glaring mistake! such is the lure and challange of our event

Exactly.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2009, 10:40:12 AM »

Clint,

As you do this, your standards change, That's certain. It's funny to watch other guys sometimes. A guy I fly with, 5 years ago, was at the profile, Rustoleum and shrink wrap plastic stage. Pretty minimal finish, but it worked. Now, the guy brings out some piece of artwork that is just gorgeous and starts pointing out the problems with the finish to me (I do the same, so no complaints). All I can see is how far he has come in the past five years or so. The guy does really good work and is quite an artist. But like all of us, he looks to get better.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:32:32 PM »

I guess it's just the natual progression of finishing. Of course there are those that just don't care about finish quality and their models always look kinda blaw even though the builder can fly the pants off me. I envy those guys sometimes.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2009, 07:27:01 PM »

Trying to do better every time is part of that challenge that keeps me in this, along side of course my child like facination with flight. Its funny though, sometimes I find myself wishing I could go back to the days of flying while the dope dried. The simplicity of that is so attractive, yet, I tried to do it on a CG Shoestring and before I knew it I was sealing the grain and applying fillets. I can't allow myself to just build a flyers, the brain and drive just won't allow it.

Hey Clint, can I get a set of Playboy plans from you??

OH OH, There I go again, your Playboy is a challenge to me Clint!!!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2009, 04:43:23 PM »

Randy,

I know what you mean. I'm trying to finish this profile and wanted to just build it from the scrap box and put a minimal iron on finish and not goof with it too much. Pretty soon I'm putting on fillets, remasking to correct some really minor flaw in the trim scheme and worrying about the iron on not matching perfectly. I have to keep telling myself this is just a sport plane to fly in profile class. Quit Obsessing!!!

RC Storick · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2009, 07:23:05 PM »

I know I am my own worst critic. On then last plane the Viper it had a sparse paint job at 47.5 oz. After adding the new engine I needed the balance so I was afforded more clear. The balance is about right at 52.5 but it could still use more clear I think. My friend Ted W. says its a work of art. I think its crap. But this year its all about flying for me. Just think if we had no appearance points I could do it lighter with no finish at all. Wouldn't that look great?

Matt Colan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2009, 07:28:49 PM »

Quote from: Allan Perret on March 23, 2009, 05:33:15 PM

So now I will likely stay with dope, but switch over to Randolph.

Isn't that where Brodak dope is made, in Randolph's factory?

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2009, 08:41:52 PM »

The no finish at all comment stirs memories. When I was a kid I couldn't afford much so all my models were clear dope only. I finally put some color on one, but it didn't fly any better. Maybe a clear dope/silkspan finish would be a good Old Time starter for me? I would be authentic by my standards. And, I still don't fly much better.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:19:05 PM »

Matt,

My understanding is that Randolph's makes Brodak dope, but it's to a different formula that actual Randolph's. I know when I buy a gallon of Randolph's, the stuff pours out like maple syrup and you need to cut it with thinner by about 200% to get it to reasonable consistency. Which is why I usually get a gallon of clear and 2 gallons of thinner.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:30:52 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 28, 2009, 09:19:05 PM

Matt,

My understanding is that Randolph's makes Brodak dope, but it's to a different formula that actual Randolph's. I know when I buy a gallon of Randolph's, the stuff pours out like maple syrup and you need to cut it with thinner by about 200% to get it to reasonable consistency. Which is why I usually get a gallon of clear and 2 gallons of thinner.

Randy, I have to do the same thing to Randolph clear. Is that maybe why I always get orange peel in my clearcoats? Too much thinner evaporating too quickly? Randolph thinner seems to be pretty fast dry.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2009, 11:48:08 AM »

Quote from: Clint Ormosen on March 29, 2009, 10:30:52 AM

Randy, I have to do the same thing to Randolph clear. Is that maybe why I always get orange peel in my clearcoats? Too much thinner evaporating too quickly? Randolph thinner seems to be pretty fast dry.

Clint,

Your gun pressure may be too high causing a partial drying before the dope reaches the surface, a bit of retarder helps too.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:32:34 PM »

Orange peel is either the mixture is too thick (not enough thinner) or the gun pressue or mixture is off. I would dial down the pressure a bit and make sure the mixture is thin enough.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:53:52 PM »

what Randy says, plusssssssss

ambient air temperature to high, to much airflow in the room sucking the solvents off the surface before it can flow, or to fast of reducer. Other variables that contribute to this, dirty air cap or fluid tip on the gun. Poorly designed gun that doesnt atomize correctly, pattern is to wide need to adjust it narrower ( more towards a round pattern) the movement of the gun across the surface being painted is to fast, not enough overlap, to light of coats that wont allow it to flow, tipping the gun away from perpendicular to the surface, and having the gun to far away from the surface

just to throw my hat in this ring

Randy Powell · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:17:44 PM »

Mark,

I was thinking generally. Of course, like a lot of things, there can be numerous problems that contribute. Temp, humidity and technique are, of course, major contributors. But generally, it's too thick a mixture or too much pressue. If those are in line, then start hunting for contributors.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:10:40 PM »

Randy,
hey buddy, wasnt trying to sell your comments short, they are in fact the most common factors,, just didnt want to ignore the other things,,

its how I think I cant help it,,

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2009, 08:27:33 PM »

OK you two! Don't make pull this car over!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:48:21 PM »

Save me Dad, he's bigger than me!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:49:44 PM »

HE STARTED IT,,