Author Topic: Base coat before Rustolium (Read 2854 times)

Richard Koehler · « **on:** November 08, 2011, 04:51:04 PM »

I'd like to try rustolium spray can paint on the fuse of a new plane, and don't want to buy a quart of paint to get the stuff Allen Brickhouse rec. Is there anything else that can be used?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2011, 05:38:08 PM »

I don't know what Allen Brickhouse was recommending. I use either Minwax Polycrylic mixed with talc, or acrylic primer from the local Miller paint store. If you get the fancy stuff I got it'll sand like a dream, but cost the same amount as Wick's charges for clear Butyrate dope ($16/quart). Of course, I did get the most expensive stuff without thinking, and I was able to just drive around the block to get the paint.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2011, 06:58:49 PM »

This stuff fuelproof?

CB

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2011, 08:17:27 PM »

Rustoleum is, acrylic primer isn't.

The first model I painted with the Minwax Polycrylic/Rustoleum "system" didn't show any problems with the paint, and I flew it to destruction. That only took me about a year, but the only fuel compatibility problem I had was with the black on the canopy, and that wasn't Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel -- it was Painter's Touch.

Oh right!

Make sure that you use Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel, or figure that you're experimenting. And make sure to let it dry for two weeks before you go sloshing fuel on it.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2011, 01:49:26 AM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on November 08, 2011, 08:17:27 PM

Make sure that you use Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel, or figure that you're experimenting. And make sure to let it dry for two weeks before you go sloshing fuel on it.

Yeah, at least two weeks. Four would be even better. Rustoleum is pretty fuel proof, but the longer it cures, the better.

Geoff Goodworth · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2011, 12:06:03 AM »

I haven't been able to find Rustoleum in Australia until very recently so I'm trying to match product names. Is the Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel that you talk about the Stops Rust product?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2011, 12:48:53 AM »

Quote from: Geoff Goodworth on November 12, 2011, 12:06:03 AM

I haven't been able to find Rustoleum in Australia until very recently so I'm trying to match product names. Is the Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel that you talk about the Stops Rust product?

Yikes! Come to find out, in the US it's "Rustoleum Stops Rust Gloss Protective Enamel".

Squirt it on, and when you finally finish saying the name it'll be fuel proof.

I wouldn't trust it to be the same as what we have here -- I'd spray a test patch on something shiny and build my plane. When I was ready to paint I'd drool some fuel on the test patch and see how it survived.

Geoff Goodworth · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2011, 04:46:08 PM »

Thanks Tim

One interesting observation on fuel proof paint. We have several brands of locally produced spray one-part epoxy. They are fuel proof on wood surfaces and painted tissue, polyspan, etc but metal tanks, no. The paint bubbles around the pipes even with no-nitro fuel.

I haven't worked out yet whether it is the etch primer under the colour coat or what yet.

Currently severely slowed down with a broken toe, maybe now's the time to do some tests.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2011, 11:51:39 PM »

Quote from: Geoff Goodworth on November 12, 2011, 04:46:08 PM

One interesting observation on fuel proof paint. We have several brands of locally produced spray one-part epoxy. They are fuel proof on wood surfaces and painted tissue, polyspan, etc but metal tanks, no. The paint bubbles around the pipes even with no-nitro fuel.

Interesting. The last plane I did with Rustoleum I painted with the same paint as the plane, and it did just fine for 10 months -- then I crashed the plane badly enough that it's probably going to end up in the Great Scrap Heap in the Sky. (the tank's fine).

I have heard that the 1-part "epoxy" paints are just enamel paints with ground up bits of cured epoxy in them. In other words, the manufacturer has stuck enough "epoxy" in there so he can put the name on the label, but it does no more for you than if he had put in dirt. "Dirt paint", however, probably won't sell as well as "Epoxy paint".

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:51:12 AM »

Tim, FWIW there are actually rattle can paints that cross link,, I seem to recall that its contact with the air that catalyzes those products, but I cannot be sure.

they are not as strong as an acrylic urethane, polyseter urethane, or epoxy,, but they are better than some of the simpler materials..

Joseph Lijoi · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2011, 09:48:33 AM »

Allen recommends Minwax Polycrylic or Z poxy finishing resin, a filler coat of brushed on Spackle dilluted with water, and Rustoleum primer. there is a very good article "Finishing the Olympus" in the in the May 2010 Flying Models. Whatever you do, don't use dope undercoats. The Rustoleum will take forever to set, if it ever does. This happened to me once, I will never do that again.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2011, 09:23:42 AM »

I have had no problems with butyrate dope as an undercoat for Rust-O-Leum or Painter's Choice. And both are highly fuel resistant. I did have a problem when raw fuel was trapped on the surface for a day, but regular drips are not a problem.

As mentioned above, experimental test panels are a wonderful idea!

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2011, 10:30:22 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on November 15, 2011, 09:23:42 AM

I have had no problems with butyrate dope as an undercoat for Rust-O-Leum or Painter's Choice. And both are highly fuel resistant.

Interesting. My first experience with Rustoleum involved painting a plane with yellow Gloss Protective Enamel, with a black canopy painted with semi-gloss Painter's Touch. The yellow was just fine after four weeks (that's how long it took me to get it in the air), but the canopy never really became completely fuel proof.

Maybe because it was semi-gloss?

Joseph Lijoi · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2011, 08:40:12 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on November 15, 2011, 09:23:42 AM

I have had no problems with butyrate dope as an undercoat for Rust-O-Leum or Painter's Choice. And both are highly fuel resistant. I did have a problem when raw fuel was trapped on the surface for a day, but regular drips are not a problem.

As mentioned above, experimental test panels are a wonderful idea!

Probably you let the dope gas off entirely. I may have painted with before the dope completely gassed off. If you let the dope dry a couple of weeks it may work out. At any rate Mr. Brickhaus says that dope undercoats should be avoided.

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2011, 02:49:22 PM »

Water based interior wall paint. Go out in the garage and get some. Brush on, sand, brush on and sand again! Spray!

Yes, really...

W.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2012, 07:59:37 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Lijoi on November 15, 2011, 08:40:12 PM

Probably you let the dope gas off entirely. I may have painted with before the dope completely gassed off. If you let the dope dry a couple of weeks it may work out. At any rate Mr. Brickhaus says that dope undercoats should be avoided.

You can use dope but you must use a non dope primer to use Rustoleum. I had the same problem with the paint over dope years ago. I now only use water based polycrylic and a primer and then paint. The finishes are certainly good enough for me as I'm more of a sport flyer anyhow.

Dennis

Bill Little · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2012, 11:33:18 AM »

We are finishing up my Grandson's trainer (he's 7 now!) and are using the Polycrylic and Rustoleum. Haven't done a filler or primer yet. I will use talcum in the Polycrylic clear. Having a completely filled model is not the goal on this one.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

RogerGreene · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2012, 10:42:59 AM »

I can find Minwax Polyurethane at Lowes and Home Depot, is this the same as Polycrylic?

Roger

Paul Wood · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2012, 06:43:55 PM »

Roger,

No, not the same. Polyurethane is solvent based and is fuel proof. But, it will yellow slightly over a light color (white, light blue, etc.). And it is heavy. Polycrylic is water based and not fuel proof. It is commonly used as a sealer or, mixed with talc, as a build up primer. It must be top coated with a fuel proof product, but since it's water based, almost anything will cover it with no compatability issues. Oh yea, since it is water based, it might warp a thin sheet balsa constrution. I've used it for years and never had a problem, but others apparently have.

Paul

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2012, 09:38:08 PM »

I haven't had a problem (yet) with warping from Polycrylic, even over thin sheet.

But over sheet I don't slop the first coat on -- I brush on one or two coats fairly dry, then once they've sealed things up a bit I go ahead and put on heavier coats.

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #20 on:** April 23, 2012, 08:00:37 AM »

Roger,
I've used Min-Wax Polyurethane clear with cornstarch on balsa areas and it seals very good after a couple coats. It would yellow over light colors especially white, but I don't use it for that purpose. Rustaleum goes well over it.
Doug