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Author Topic: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?  (Read 6610 times)

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« on: August 17, 2014, 12:57:40 PM »
I have been looking for a low cost replacement to the tiny expensive bottles of Aero Gloss thinner.  I am having a time about it. 

What I know:
Lacquer thinner curdles Aero Gloss (the new clear in the blue label jar).  The finish shrinks and cracks badly.  Since it is the sanding layer loaded with corn starch I think it will be fine, most of this coat is getting sanded off anyways. 

The thinner reads methyl isobutyl ketone

the clear reads toluol and methyl ethyl keytone

I have old Pactra Aero Gloss in Red, White, and Blue as well, but not in front of me.

Can I use MEK without using toluol (toluene) and expect decent results?  Is there a better thinner?  I have looked at Lowes for toluene without finding any.

I am brushing as I am not currently setup for spraying.  This plane is needing fuel proof, not fancy.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 09:48:34 PM »
Is xylene a suitable substitute for toluene?

I am sanding down the last of the cornstarch + dope, glad it cuts quick.  Everywhere I used the lacquer thinner thinned dope it is falling off the plane with a touch.  The areas I used the aero gloss thinner the mixture is tight and crack free. 

I now have MEK, and can get xylene easily. 

I also have acetone, denatured alcohol, odorless mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, Coleman fuel, K1, and turpentine. 

I don't plan to try denatured alcohol, odorless mineral spirits, Coleman fuel, K1, or turpentine.  I would rather my attempts have good chances for success.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 02:34:48 PM »
So, one jar is Pactra Aero Gloss, the other two are Pactra Formula U polyurethane. 

I used the aero gloss (blue), it applied straight from the jar as I think it should.  It is much much thinner than the clear Midwest Aero Gloss.  I could tell immediately where I sanded through all the coatings to bare wood and where I had a good primer base.  Good thing this is only a basher, and a chance to learn about these paints.

Anybody know anything about the Formula U?  I have Metallic Red and Flat White.  The label is from before warning information was required, so there is no indication of anything that it contains.  Still sealed and "brand new".  My Dad got it when the hobby shop near him was liquidating last year.

Phil

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 11:50:08 AM »
Xylene seems to work fine as a dope thinner.
Phil

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 12:27:19 AM »
  Phil;
   It depends on what vintage of Aerogloss dope you are talking about, including the thinner. I remember reading something in a free flight column in a magazine years ago that at that time, some one had it analyzed and it had 14 different solvents in it. If I had a brush that I couldn't get cleaned in anything else, I could get it clean in Aerogloss thinner! The formula for the thinner and the dope has changed a lot through the years. I don't think they make colored dope any more, just clear and sanding sealer because that is sort of a staple for the pinewood derby racers to put the base for their finishes on. I'll have to remember the Xylene, as I have a bunch of smaller bottle of the stuff I need to use someday. Have you tried adding the Xylene to regular lacquer thinner to see if that helps the compatibility?  Might make the Xylene go a little farther. Is Xylene a hard chemical to purchase? I'm sure it's like a lot of stuff these days that is considered too hazardous for us humans to use.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 10:11:46 AM »
I got the xylene at Lowes.  I was looking for toluene which is a more difficult chemical to get (I have not found it locally, but have not looked up the automotive paint stores).  Everything I read says if it is compatible with toluene then xylene will work fine, but the evaporation rate is slower with xylene.  I also found posts on RCG that stated toluene, and MEK would work, with MEK being a "faster" thinner than toluene, and that MEK encouraged blushing.  (I also got MEK at Lowes, but didn't try using any.)

I am using modern clear, and vintage blue (Pactra).  They both seem to thin and cure just fine with the xylene on board. 

The curdled, corn starch thickened clear I added the lacquer thinner to went to smooth and usable after adding xylene too.  That mess seemed to cure properly too.  I used it up and sanded it off already.  It was pretty dilute with maybe 1 part dope to 4 parts thinner, if that.   

From everything I have recently read the primary reason for a cocktail of thinners is to control evaporation rates.  There are other reasons such as certain thinners better separate solids, prevent or encourage cross linking, effect gloss, "blushing", and surface hardness, and more... but I didn't understand the chemistry in that article beyond if the finish is not as desired try a different thinner, or blend the compatible thinners.

Now I am almost out of colored dope and not done with the job.  I have two planes to paint before monocote, and only one is done.  The "formula U" I have is polyurethane and not dope.  I found even less information on that stuff, effectively none on thinning, if necessary. 

I may break down and order some dope.  Rustoleum is a choice still as these are planes for learning not show.

Phil

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2014, 06:31:50 PM »
Regarding the Formula U, I used in in the late '80's for the fuselage and tail surfaces of a CG Buster for NW Sport "Race" (AKA "FoxBerg"). I probably put it over K&B SuperPoxy primer, which I really liked. The Formula U was a spraycan, and I didn't polish it or clearcoat it. I kinda liked it, too. If you have a standard can, I'd expect it to give a list of contents, but probably would suggest thinning with Formula U thinner. What that is should be related to the stuff on the list of contents. Otherwise, I know you can't put urethanes over latex paints, primers and stains, and that's about the only problem.  D>K Steve
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Aero Gloss thinner...what is it?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2014, 09:21:45 PM »
Thanks Steve.  These Pactra jars are so old that they lack the typical California warnings!  The labels are rather meaningless.

I ended up mixing the blue pactra aerogloss with the midwest aerogloss clear to get candy blue.  I added some MEK with excellent improvement of the brushing ability.

The candy is a rather awesome effect that is truly ruined by brushing.  The results look well enough for something to learn stunt on.  I might have to try doing candy with different paints at some point. 

Phil


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