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Author Topic: Butyrate over Epoxy?  (Read 1418 times)

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Butyrate over Epoxy?
« on: January 09, 2014, 01:08:17 AM »
Hi, guys! Does anyone have any recent experience with spraying or brushing clear butyrate dope over .56-oz fiberglass that has been applied with epoxy (West Systems, in my case) and sanded smooth down to the glass? Will it adhere over time/use, and does it require primer? Thanks.

SK
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Offline Larry Fruits

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 10:52:57 AM »
Hi Serge,
 I applied Brodak dope over .56 oz. fiberglass that was stuck down with the West epoxy system on my last model. The model is almost 4 years old now and shows no signs of any problems.
 After I applied the glass I sanded it smooth and then put clear over it and the surrounding area to fill the wood grain as usual. Then Brodak primer, blocker coat, (polar grey), then my finishing colors and final coats of clear. All were Brodak dope and thinner. I don't have the capability of attaching a photo here, but will send you an Email with photo.
 It worked fine for me.
 Good luck;
 Larry
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 07:12:08 PM »
Thanks much, Larry. Your plane is beautiful!

Edit: I should have noted that I've had success with butyrate over epoxy fillets and have done the searches. My biggest concerns are durability over large areas and whether any new formulations complicate matters.

Larry, what grit did you use in preparing your epoxy/glass surface for doping? Thanks, again.

SK
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:59:28 PM by Serge_Krauss »
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 08:39:50 AM »
In my experience using epoxy resin to put down glass was that once cured it had kind of an oily feeling to it.   After sanding with 200 grit paper I would wipe it clean with acetone or alcohol before painting with dope.  I use butyrate dope exclusively as I got  the nitrate clear and butyrate mixed up one time.  Never again.   The fillets is the main area I have had some problems with.   Even after cleaning real good.   Have not tried the West System of epoxy so  I can't speak for it.  Let us know how it goes. H^^
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Offline Larry Fruits

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 02:11:45 PM »
Hi Serge,
 I used 220 dry to sand and blend the cured resin. Vacuumed the dust off and then used a cloth dampened with Windex as a final cleaning. Make sure you get the gloss removed from the cured resin and leave a bit of a "tooth" for the dope to adhere.
 Then I finished the plane in a normal fashion as if the glass was not there. Dope filler coats to fill wood grain, silkspan, primer, etc..

 You may see a bit of the glass weave after the application of the silkspan, but the normal finishing process will fill that in and it disappears.

 For fillets I use SuperFil. Great product.

 Note: As the heading states, this is butyrate over "West Systems" epoxy. I have no experience with other resins and how that may work. By the way, The West Systems epoxy is a great laminating resin for wood too. It was designed to make wooden boats.

 Larry
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 01:10:53 AM by Larry Fruits »
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 02:39:23 PM »
Hi Larry,

I have used dope over Z-Poxy products including the Finishing Resin and 30 min. epoxy.  Prep the same way, but I use alcohol to wipe clean.  No problems in over 10 years.

BIG Bear
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 04:22:13 PM »
This is no help, but K&B Superpoxy makes a swell base for butyrate.
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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 12:14:26 PM »
West System and most other epoxies produce aminine blush, which is waxy or oily, while curing.  The easiest way to eliminate is using ammonia and water to soften and strip the material.  After cleaning then using sandpaper or other smoothing and roughening techniques are no problem. 

Feel free to do a solvent wash after sanding.

Sanding alone can embed the blush in the grooves so it contaminates further bonding.

If it weren't for that pesky weight problem, applying West System directly to the wood is an ideal choice as it will soak in and stabilize the wood further and improve the fuel resistance of the wood.  Sealing with dope will prevent the wood from absorbing the heavier epoxy.  The epoxy will bond well to the dope painted wood after a light sanding, or skip sanding the bare wood and the surface will be quite rough after the dope.

Phil
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Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: Butyrate over Epoxy?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2014, 11:51:10 AM »
In my experience Nitrate works well over epoxy but Butyrate doesn't seem to stick as well. I would coat first with nitrate then switch to Bute.
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Peter Ferguson
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