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Author Topic: Dope adhesion  (Read 1274 times)

Rick_Huff

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Dope adhesion
« on: March 01, 2014, 06:48:56 AM »
I'm in the process of finishing my new plane.  I'm using blue 3m vinyl tape for masking and, when removing the tape, I'm pulling up a lot of the primer and dope.  The tape is pulling it off all the way to the balsa.  The balsa was finished by sanding to 600grit, then doping with Randolph nitrate dope that was 50/50 with thinner.  I added microballoons to help with filling the grain (I didn't use silkspan).  The temperature was in the upper 40's (That's my basement this time of year).  There there were 4 or 5 coats of the dope/thinner/microballoons.  Could the microballoons or the low temperature have affected the adhesion of the dope to the balsa?   Oh,  the primer is DC540 and I guess the good news is that it adhered well to the dope. 
Thanks for any help,
Rick

Offline Alan Resinger

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 08:10:40 AM »
Rick,
I've never heard of using micro balloons as filler for dope and I've been doing this for over 50 years.  I really suspect that is your problem.  The things to use to make filler are #1, zinc sterate (from Randy Smith at Aero Products), #2, talcum powder (unscented preferably), or even #3, corn starch.  You have a definite adhesion problem that the only way to fix, is to sand down to base nitrate dope and start over.  
Alan Resinger

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 09:35:21 AM »
The temp. could also be causing you problems. I always warm the shop for an hour or two before I paint in the winter, it makes the paint flow better too.

Derek

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 12:35:54 PM »
My limited experience with micro balloons was to try pretty much what you did as a super light filler and my results were the same as yours. Some careful sanding showed me the micro balloons floated to the top skin of the dope-not sinking into the wood grain at all.  Then these are a physical barrier preventing much dope adhesion.  You either make do best you can with it or ( better) sand it off and start over.

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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 12:48:59 PM »
 Oh,  the primer is DC540 and I guess the good news is that it adhered well to the dope. 

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Rick_Huff

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 12:51:18 PM »
Thanks for your insights.  I removed the rest (~70") of masking tape and had lift up of the primer/dope in only 3 spots, which totalled about 2 inches.  I'm debating whether to sand it all off, or live with it.  I guess the real concern is whether it may start peeling sometime in the future.  It's on a profile plane's fuselage, so sanding it off is not that bad a job.  I'll think about it...
Thanks again,
Rick

Rick_Huff

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 02:02:53 PM »
I decided to sand it off and start over.  Only took 2hrs to sand off the port side, will finish the starboard tonight.
Rick

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 03:31:53 PM »
If you can get more heat to it the curing will be much quicker.   Allow some time between layers.  Lacquers are funny about temperature and humidity.
Joe Daly

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 04:10:17 PM »
Rich, I don't know why you're not using silkspan, but you almost certainly should.  It not only helps to fill the grain, but it puts a hard "skin" onto the balsa that makes it harder to ding and gouge, and it adds considerable overall structural strength, to boot.  If you're trying to fill all the grain then you'll have a lighter plane in the end if you use silkspan, too.

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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 04:16:23 PM »
If your masking tape is overly aggressive, a heat gun can be a good way to remove the tape without pulling off the paint.  It take some finesse.
Paul Smith

Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 01:04:02 PM »
This may be obvious, but pull the tape back over itself and roll it off of the paint, this will limit the area subject to the force of the peeling tape. A hairdryer set to low can help too.
Peter Ferguson
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Dope adhesion
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2014, 11:59:37 AM »
After spraying the planes with Rustoleum it was about a week before I got around to removing all the tape and mask material.  I have discovered that leaving the Press-N-Seal on that long left some residue.   Good ole alcohol to the rescue.   At the edge of the tape the Rustoleum  left a ridge which was removed with the trusty old finger nail.
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