Worth rebuilding?

[mike londke]

I was given this Ballerina stunt plane by a retired CL flyer. It has a seized OS FP .40 in the nose and weighs in at 64 ozs. I don't know if it was a kit, a short kit or scratch built. Finished with silkspan and dope. Engine crutch is not oil soaked or soft. Controls are smooth. I am posting a short video because I am having problems re-sizing pictures on my computer. So, is it worth the time or should it hang from the ceiling? Opinions? Thanks, Mike                                             

[Tony Clifford]

Hi Mike, looks like in it's day it was a mighty fine looking model.
At 64 OZ however, unless you can slim it down by about 20 OZ (including the re-build)and continue to use the FP-.40 you might have to think about retirement !!!!
Mind you, as much of the innards are now visible due to deterioration, some further investigation might reveal where you can take to it with a "Jenny Craig" weight loss program and end up with a unique and pretty unit.
When one is gifted with what was once a very attractive model, it can be hard to raise the white flag and throw up the hands in defeat, but you will have to look at that 44 to 46 OZ upon completion if you want a model that will perform in a tidy and responsive fashion.
Lotsa luck to you and keep the dream alive - regards, Tony.

[Jared Hays]

I noticed the huge trim tab.  Is the wing warped? If visible to the naked eye I would pass.  Otherwise strip the wings and just mono-kote them to cut weight.  You may even be able to remove every other rib as it looks like there are quite a few of them.  Make sure the leading edge is very well rounded off a sharp leading edge will only compound flight problems on a heavier plane.  Couldn't really tell from the video but I see a lot of very old birds with sharp leading edges.  Also see about adjustable leadouts if you can adapt them to the model if you strip the wings.  Couldn't see very clearly but looked like fixed leadouts kinda far apart.  Just make sure there is no rubbing of the leadout lines through the wing on the ribs, that makes the plane fly terrible.  Swop in a good motor although you might consider a .46 for the size and weight of the model and see what happens...

[John Leidle]

   The only thing I'd try is remove the FP & stuff something more powerful in it... Tiger .51 might be fun.

[Clint Ormosen]

I'd say no, not worth it. It's already 20 oz too heavy and it's not likely to get much lighter with repairs and a new finish. Added to all that is a big trim tab indicating there is something horribly wrong with it. Save yourself some grief and move on.

[EddyR]

Having built a lot of the 50-60's I/beam I agree with what the others said. Just hang it up as a piece of art work.
EddyR

[Tom Niebuhr]

The Ballerina is not a large airplane. There is no way that it will fly good at that weight even with a larger engine. My guess is that none of the blocks are hollowed out and there is much too much paint. 64 oz and it still needs wheel pants....... This is absolutely a hangar queen.

[Mike Keville]

That looks like Charlie Pate's old model.  Yep, just hang it up.

[Jim Carter]

Mr. Londke, now I s'pose all the other guys are far more skilled and knowledgeable than I and they all probably fly better than I, BUT .... it is my belief that you should take on the challenge!!  I mean what the heck??  It may never win the NATS .... probably won't win if you ever fly against any of the others who responded either (maybe they know that it's actually a "genie in the bottle, so to speak and don't want to have to compete against it    ).  The point is, you have it .... fix it .... put your touch to it .... then take it out and fly it!!     So what if it wobbles in flight .... seek out the problem!!     So what if it's slow .... add some nitro .... mount a bigger engine!!  So what if it crashes .... at least you did the rebuild .... you got it in the air .... you tried to fly it .... you get to pick up the pieces .... you get the laughter and the memories of your labor, right??     I say "GO 'FER IT"!!   

[Dave_Trible]

I like the airplane but that one is pretty hopeless.  A time-waster.  Instead build something new and much lighter,  even another Ballerina.  I'm building one later this year.  It's a worthwhile airplane given a fair chance.  There just isn't enough lift in that wing to carry that weight OR more engine.

Dave

[john e. holliday]

I agree with Jim C.,  go for it only if you already have a plane that is flyable.   Who ever built this one did not use the correct canopy anyway.  Once you have all the covering stripped off, including the fuselage, you just may be able to pop the block off and hollow it.  As far as the engine,  treat it with care by soaking it and see if it can be loosened up.   Once you have finished with it and flown it, you will probably be glad you did.   Just don't put too much finish on the rebuild/finish.   I see you have a couple of Combat Cats on the bench.    They were my first real combat planes with the first Fox Combat Special on crank case pressure.   Another design that was fun to fly but too much work for competition.   Really it is your choice to refinish the plane and just prove us wrong about it flying.   My first Ruffy weighed a ton with a Fox .35 Stunt.   I flew it fast and it would fly when the wind kept all the other planes on the ground.  Keep us posted and learn how to down size pictures.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Just remember that a poor flying airplane will NEVER help you to improve your flying.

[John Craig]

While, make her a Hangar Queen is most likely the best advice.  I also could not resist the challenge!   What I might learn about better building, mistakes not to make in the future.   Answers to the question what has made her so buxom? Have I got the knowledge  & skills to correct her problems?   I have never flown or built a plane with that classic wing construction.  I have never flown a Ballerina!  Even if it did not fly well, it would be COOL just to show up at the field & fly her a couple of times. The sophistication, the elegance,  the envy, the jealousy, the coolness!

[Tim Wescott]

Hey Mike:

My inclination would be to build another one just like it, only lighter.  If you want to honor the original builder, finish the new one to match what you have.

There's a good chance that the motor is perfectly good, just full of castor oil that's solidified.  If that's the case it's not a bad stunt motor -- it's just that the LA 46 is absurdly easier to handle than the FP 40.  (There's plenty of threads on the FP 40 if it turns out OK and you want to use it).

The trim tab looks like it was built in from day 1, then was jammed into the extreme setting it has now in a hanger incident.  So I don't think you can use it as much of a guide to  the wing being warped.

[Gerald Arana]

Mike,

I don't know about you but, I could not resist trying to figure out what or why this ship is so porky.

First thing I'd do is take all the covering off by the method described in Roy DeCamaras article published in SN a couple years ago. (SN=Stunt News)

Then I'd cut off the top and bottom blocks, tack glue some foam blocks on and shape. Pop off the foam blocks and make molded skins for the top and bottom out of 3/32" balsa. You can check the weights of the old block and the new skin to see about how much wt. you'd be saving.

Good luck, Jerry

[mike londke]

Wow, lots of great answers here. I think I will go with the majority and leave it alone for now and focus on something new. I will at least remove the engine and see if it can be saved. Maybe someday, down the road..... Thanks to everyone for all the great replies. And Doc you have a good eye. Those are indeed a pair of Combat Cats I am finishing. Power will be a new .36X compliments of Tim Lackey.

[FLOYD CARTER]

I don't see how anyone could build such a small plane 20 ounces overweight!  What could possibly weigh that much?

If it were mine, I would investigate further just to see what is causing the weight gain.

Never mind hollowing out the top block.  That might save an ounce.

Could be massive paint!  (lead-based??)

I would strip it to peer inside.

Floyd

[Clancy Arnold]

Nike
My first question would be "Why is it over weight?"
Then I would check the CG.  If the CG is over 20 % back on the wing cord start looking for "Added Tail Weight."
With contest Balsa weighing typically under 6 Lbs / Cu. Ft. you would need to remove about 288 Cu. In. of Balsa to get it down to a competitive weight.  Shake the model to see if something is floating  around inside of it.  A friend gave me a Veco Chief several years ago, that had hung in a barn for several years, and was also way overweight.  After removing a bunch of mud dauber nests it got down to it's proper weight.
Clancy

[mike londke]

Nike
My first question would be "Why is it over weight?"
Then I would check the CG.  If the CG is over 20 % back on the wing cord start looking for "Added Tail Weight."
With contest Balsa weighing typically under 6 Lbs / Cu. Ft. you would need to remove about 288 Cu. In. of Balsa to get it down to a competitive weight.  Shake the model to see if something is floating  around inside of it.  A friend gave me a Veco Chief several years ago, that had hung in a barn for several years, and was also way overweight.  After removing a bunch of mud dauber nests it got down to it's proper weight.
Clancy

  Good idea Clancy, maybe there are some critters living in it. 

[Andre Ming]

I know... hang it on the wall and build more nostalgia combat planes with vintage combat engines!!! 

Yeah, that's the ticket! 

[JoeJust]

Did you weigh it yourself?  Were the numbers transposed?  Maybe it only weighs 46 oz,  not 64.
Joe

[mike londke]

Did you weigh it yourself?  Were the numbers transposed?  Maybe it only weighs 46 oz,  not 64.
Joe

  I weighed it myself 3 times, I could not believe it either.

[Sean McEntee]

You could probably build a new one in the time it would take to do the necessary work to square this one away...

[Clint Ormosen]

There's a reason you never see a Ford Pinto in the shop for restoration.

[Steve Helmick]

I suspect it's crammed full of Green Onions. Nice choice of moozak on your video. Booker T and the MGs.  Steve

PS: Hang it up high as you can.

[Randy Ryan]

I'm always up for a challenge. Before I slammed the door I'd investigate and see where the weight is. Is it built from 8-10lb stock? If so, hang it up. On the other hand if the blocks are all unhollowed (the nose looks pretty porky for a Ballerina) it may be that with some effort you could replace them with light stock and hollow them. Also mentioned is tail weight. The FP is hefty and the nose is pretty much minimally shaped so it could be there is some pretty substantial weight in the tail. I-beam wings don't build all that heavy so I suspect the majority of the pork is in the fuselage.

[MarcusCordeiro]

There's a reason you never see a Ford Pinto in the shop for restoration.

 

Marcus

[EddyR]

I/Beam models can be built from heavy wood and still not come out like that one. Looks looks the outboard wing has been broken off at the leading edge. Hard wood in that skinny body and a ton dope on it.Walk away

EddyR      AKA "Eddie Haskell"

[Dennis Adamisin]

I'm always up for a challenge. Before I slammed the door I'd investigate and see where the weight is. Is it built from 8-10lb stock? If so, hang it up. On the other hand if the blocks are all unhollowed (the nose looks pretty porky for a Ballerina) it may be that with some effort you could replace them with light stock and hollow them. Also mentioned is tail weight. The FP is hefty and the nose is pretty much minimally shaped so it could be there is some pretty substantial weight in the tail. I-beam wings don't build all that heavy so I suspect the majority of the pork is in the fuselage.

I share Randy's curiosity - it would be interesting to see HOW IN THE HECK it is possible to get a Ballerina up to 64 oz.  A strip-down to the bare wood would give a clue to its finish weight.  Very bad wood selection & technique would account for more.  There has to be a slug of ballast in there too. 

No doubt it would break through the Netzeband wall?  Maybe the Atlantic Wall?  Great Wall of China???

[mike londke]

All these replies got me second guessing myself so I got out the scale again, even put a new battery in it. Same result 64 ozs. Its a wall hanger for now.