Wind: How much is too much?

[Rudy Taube]

Hi Guys,

In an attempt to keep t michael's windy landing thread "pure", I thought it best to start a new topic about Wind speed for safe flying of the CLPA maneuvers.

What do you think are the limits for safe (full control above 45 degrees, etc.) CLPA flying?

Maybe a better way to ask this is:

1. What is the wind speed for "Stunt Heaven" flying conditions? 0 to x?

2. What is still OK for safe flying for the average CLPA flyer?  x to xx?

3. What is the wind speed that makes it unsafe for all but the very best flyers with top, powerful, equipment?  xxx?

4. What is the "Do not exceed" wind speed? xxxx?

I read all the time about the "Windy" Nats, etc., but I rarely see any mention about the actual wind speeds. I do understand that gusts are worse than a higher steady wind speed, and this will effect any answer. As well at the surrounding buildings, trees etc. causing additional turbulence. Maybe an answer including gust speed would be helpful? Like; Stunt Heaven= 0 to 4 mph, max gust to 5 mph.

As a CL retread, old combat flyer, I am relatively new to CLPA (only 112 CLPA flights so far). Flying combat as a kid in the 60s I don't remember ever thinking about the wind. We just flew until something broke, planes crashed, or the engine quit, whichever came 1st. Wind did not seem to have much effect on our combat models.

I am finding that in CLPA wind does make a difference, especially when flying above the 45 degree point, I know this is stating the obvious, but I was wondering what the wind limits are for our type of flying?

When I am practicing the "dark arts" with my 30+ pound IMAC planes the wind is not much of a safety (control) factor until we pass the 25 mph mark.  I would like to hear from you CL flyers as to what you think the limits are for CLPA.

I have kept a log of my CLPA flights, including wind speed during flight. Under 7 mph seems OK, but above 8 to 12 the turbulence from the tall (40'+) trees makes it difficult to fly in, especially the overhead maneuvers; 8s, clovers, etc. But I have seen experts fly well in winds over 15, but I have also seen experts crash in winds above 15 mph. Not during landings, but in flight. 

PS: CLPA pilots from West Texas, and Kansas may have to start their own thread on this subject. Or maybe we can just subtract 20 mph form all the wind speeds they give us? ;-)

Thanks in advance for your input on this. 

[Jim Thomerson]

We put up a caibrated windsock at the field.  It goes straight out at 15 MPH.  I am now happy flying in winds which might have kept me grounded pre windsock.   

[Jim Oliver]

Question: What is too much wind??
Answer: Whatever the wind was at Memphis last year.

We flew anyway--builds character (or so I am told.)

Jim

[Jim Oliver]

We won't mention any names, right???
Jim

[Jim Morris]

Wind speed is relevant to the surrounding terrain. Here at Hobby Park Winston, NC when the wind reaches around 8-10 mph, your done. Some people can fly it, but I have a hard time. How about if the wind blows the model over sitting static. Its too windy.

[Garf]

For me, 5 to 10 mph is fine. I use 15 mph as an arbitrary limit even thou I do have some planes that could manage that for sport (non pattern) flying.

[Scott Jenkins]

How much is too much ? When you can do down wind figure 8's with the engine out of fuel as in off. Have been know to do that with a old ringmaster and several different combat planes 1/2 A to Fast ships.    really its fun try it with a old beater 

Scott

[steven yampolsky]

What do you think are the limits for safe (full control above 45 degrees, etc.) CLPA flying?

I fly until chairs begin to fall over from the wind.

[dave siegler]

A steady 10 or even 15 mph wing is doable, but lots of turbulence and wind direction changes and gusts give me the shakes....

When my had blows off, I roll them up.

[Chris Gilbert IRL-1638]

Where I fly too much wind is when the pilot can't stand up straight.

Windup is fun (as in flying arm much longer than other arm after each flight)  and so is trying to keep the overheads overhead.
The 5 foot bottoms are not good for the nerves with all that windup, but once you've survived the first pattern it gets easier.

If we had to restrict to flying in winds below 15 mph here we'd never get any flying done. Makes flying on a calm day quite difficult though.

[Shultzie]

To quot Riley Wooten!
"IT'S NEVER TOO WINDY-----   WE JUST FLY "TEXAS COMBAT!"
Down here in Texas...wind speed doesn't matter since we just use only 1/2 the circle anyhow?

[Rudy Taube]

Hi Shultzie,

I just knew we would hear from you TEXAS flyers! 
Please see my PS in the 1st post 

Yes, I remember when Riley used to tell us that when the wind blew the telephone poles over at a 45 degree angle, it made flying easier because he could use them to make his triangles look purtyer. 

He used to say that they looked forward to the tornado season down your way so that they could fly really FAST combat in the center of one. 

He used to say that you guys did not have to flip your props, you just pointed the prop into the 80+ mph West Texas wind and the engine started!  .... etc. etc. etc. ..... 

We all know that you guys have wind skills only rivaled by the Dutch flyers. My questions were really directed at the mere mortals who fly on the less windy side of our little spaceship. 

BTW: When I was a kid, I scratch built one of Riley's Voodoos from the magazine when it was 1st published. I still have one flyable Voodoo, and one NIB Voodoo. I also still have one of his great RC pylon Q-500 Scatcats (25 yrs. old) that I still fly in our clubs races.

Thanks for the good ol' Texas Humor. Riley was one of my heros when I was a kid. I hope he does not mind me using his name to poke a little fun at y'all?  

Regards,   

[john e. holliday]

Riley is quite a gentleman and don't be surprised when he gets even with you.  Now it you want wind, you should have been at this years Ice-O-Lated at St Louis.  The experts watched the rest of us fly and left their planes in their cars.  DOC Holliday

[Air Ministry .]

  You need to start leaping around ( getting Aerobic ? ) , over about 18 kt.s

 to avoid planting the aeroplane,as most of them dont fly to well if the wires arnt tight.

 Managed two flights in a 60 kt wind when I was 15 ,and didnt know you couldnt.launching in
the lea of a large hedge. The loops were rather quick . and trying one high , in a lull resulted in sprinting about 100 ft DOWN wind so as not to break the lines when they went tight again.
This one 'tenses me up ' when I recall bits of it !

A real good plane will cover the pattern in 25 Kt winds , fine pitch and running hard .
they need a little more oomph to hold all the forces balanced.

[Eric Viglione]

Steve - At last years KOI I saw someone go over and pick up my chair 2 times during my second official, they finally gave up, folded it and left it on the ground...  Heh.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with others here, it's a moving target. At most small fields, 15MPH can be horrific because of turbulence, yet at Whitehouse in Jaxm, 20-25 is doable and you feel like superman because the air is pretty clean when it blows down that long runway (most of the time).

I fly until chairs begin to fall over from the wind.

[Leo Mehl]

When the plane stops on the downside of the overhead 8 and doesn't want to continue you might want to consider it a day. Thank Jim Greenaway for that great Supre Tigre 60. It's got balls.

[peabody]

I pretty much crap out when guys that fly better than I start to crash....

I have judged a few times in heavy winds....and that experience has led me to believe that the wind speed at which a contest is cancelled should be adjusted seriously downward...to, say, 15 mph....

Contests flown in higher winds stop resembling "Precision Aerobatics" and become something like survival deals...not very pretty....when National Champions (past and future) crash in level flight or cannot complete maneuvers, the concept of Precision goes into the toilet......

[Leo Mehl]

I pretty much crap out when guys that fly better than I start to crash....

I have judged a few times in heavy winds....and that experience has led me to believe that the wind speed at which a contest is cancelled should be adjusted seriously downward...to, say, 15 mph....

Contests flown in higher winds stop resembling "Precision Aerobatics" and become something like survival deals...not very pretty....when National Champions (past and future) crash in level flight or cannot complete maneuvers, the concept of Precision goes into the toilet......

I'll second that.

[taildragger-j3]

We had A BUNCH of wind at the Ringmaster Roundup in Houston back in April. I lost my OLD S-1 trying to do overhead 8s when the wind decided otherwise. Several VERY GOOD flyers lost there planes too. I should have followed the previously quoted advice -- when the good guys crack up, don't fly!

I can USUALLY fly in up to about 15 mph (R/C or C/L). 5-10 is no big deal. 20 starts getting REALLY dicey. I flew full-scale when I lived in Lubbock, but I was out of modeling at the time. I did have some hairy flights in 172's in those days though.

[Keith Spriggs]

Now it you want wind, you should have been at this years Ice-O-Lated at St Louis.   DOC Holliday

And not only wind, but freezing rain, rain,sleet,snow and sunshine and that was before 10:00 A.M. Doc's two little grand daughters were two of the bravest little girls I ever saw. Both of them flew while most of us watched from the warmth of our vehicles. Grandpa seemed awfully proud of them as well he should have.