What is the deal with Enya?

[Mike Griffin]

Maybe I am going to the wrong ENYA website, but the one I am going to always shows everything in control line engines out of stock.  WTH is it with this company.  I don't blame Randy for dropping the line if this is the case.

Mike

[david beazley]

Several months ago Aero Modeler Magazine (a Brit mag and a good one) had an article on Enya's "manufacturing" facility.  Looked like a cottage industry with a couple older gentlemen hand machining engines on 50+ year old machines.  I'm not knocking them or their products, just got the impression they are not an industrial giant.

[Dan McEntee]

   I don't blame Randy one bit. I bought one of those EVO .61's to use one day, and now a couple of years down the road they are discontinued. I'm reluctant to use something that can't be supported. Yeah, sure Super Tigre ain't what it was, but parts for those can be found fairly easy if you need them because the factory supported them for a lengthy period of time. Meks it sound to me that they are trying to eliminate guys like Randy Smith and just deal direct.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Jim Svitko]

In November I sent an e-mail to Enya about the SS50 availability.  I wanted something with a bit more power than the LA 46 and the SS50 looked to be something worth investigating.  Ken Enya replied saying the SS50 was not available now but would be again in a few months.  Just how long "a few months" can be is anyone's guess.

I did not ask about any other engines in the line so I have nothing to report there.

It might be that Enya will gear up and produce batches from time to time, depending on demand.   I am willing to wait a bit and see what shows up in two or three months.

[Steve Thomas]

Looked like a cottage industry with a couple older gentlemen hand machining engines on 50+ year old machines.

When you think about the overall demand for model IC engines these days, it's hard to imagine it being anything but a cottage industry. In fact it's something of a miracle that anyone bothers at all. In the case of Enya, they list a wide range of engines, but I guess the market just isn't there to have them all in continuous production, so they just do occasional runs of them as they see fit. Full credit to them for supporting CL, though. In the last year or so they've brought out a PB lapped version of the SS45, specifically for CL, and introduced that new spiral venturi. Dunno how much of an improvement it is, but it's nice that they're taking the trouble.

And: about a week ago, a new ABC version of the 61CX went on sale. This is an 11.7 oz, rear exhaust engine selling for about US$190 and specifically intended for CL stunt. This fact went completely unnoticed here, while we continued to discuss the merits of the LA46, as usual.  . Like I said, it's a miracle that they bother at all.

I'm reluctant to use something that can't be supported. Yeah, sure Super Tigre ain't what it was, but parts for those can be found fairly easy if you need them because the factory supported them for a lengthy period of time.

That's the other thing I like about them.  Even if the engines aren't in stock, their parts support is always excellent. A couple of years ago they sent me a new shaft for an engine that hadn't been produced for about 45 years. We should appreciate these sort of people while we still can.

Steve

[Chris Wilson]

Steve, your hand drawn logo under your name - done by the boys I assume?

Nice touch!

[Steve Thomas]

Steve, your hand drawn logo under your name - done by the boys I assume?

Nice touch!

Yes, my 10-y.o. drew it as decoration on my Christmas gift tag - I thought it was great.

[Balsa Butcher]

That engine is also available in the US through "Shuttrman" on the Bay. Listing for $239. 

[John Leidle]

    Steve ,  if this engine is avalible  do you know who may sell them ?
             John

[Randy Cuberly]

That engine is also available in the US through "Shuttrman" on the Bay. Listing for $239. 

Which engine are you referring to...The 60 cxl ABC or ring.

Randy Cuberly

[Allan Perret]

And: about a week ago, a new ABC version of the 61CX went on sale. This is an 11.7 oz, rear exhaust engine selling for about US$190 and specifically intended for CL stunt. This fact went completely unnoticed here, while we continued to discuss the merits of the LA46, as usual.  . Like I said, it's a miracle that they bother at all.


Steve

Some of us did notice, see this thread:          
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,37744.0.html
This new 61RE was announced about a month ago on Enya's site and was reported on here on Stunt Hangar. 
It has been available from Enya Direct for a couple of weeks now..

[Richard Field]

I'd have to agree with Steve - Enya should be supported for their continuing CL models, even if we need to keep an eye on availability or contribute to model specific demand.

I similarly wanted an SS50 S recently, and ended up ordering the parts necessary to convert an old SS40BB Engine direct from Enya & am very happy with the result.
Enya's on-line catalogue includes parts lists so you can quickly identify the parts.

Lately each of the production runs have sold out in a few weeks as those communicating demand for specific models do tend to buy them up quickly…my 61CXL arrived just after Christmas & looks fantastic .
This latest run is ABC: http://www.enya-engine.com/61CXL%20S%20PRO_SQR800.jpg

Looks like the 2nd production run of plain bearing SS30 Diesels just sold out as well!

[George Hostler]

Several months ago Aero Modeler Magazine (a Brit mag and a good one) had an article on Enya's "manufacturing" facility. Looked like a cottage industry with a couple older gentlemen hand machining engines on 50+ year old machines. I'm not knocking them or their products, just got the impression they are not an industrial giant.

I dunno. At one time, may be they were an industrial giant, during the era when MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation) was the distributor in US. They had worldwide distribution and was in nearly every modelling magazine and various store chains.

They did a few Schneurles, but then dropped off the radar sometime back in the 1980's. Now, they've been reduced to cottage status still supplying the needs of diehards who believe in their products, especially their cross scavenged engines which I find to be well suited and superior toward the sport modeler's needs. This is in the day and age that needs have morphed toward ball bearing Schneurle engines, small scale 2 stroke ignition gassers and electric motors.

I was quite happy to see that the old cross scavenged engines still survive and are produced. A late approacher in the game, learnt through used E-Bay purchases, I've found these engines really desirable jewels.

In a day and age where 18% oil glow fuel permeates and ball bearing ABC's dominate, these old school 25% oil with Castor content thriving Enya's are timeless.

[Balsa Butcher]

I confirmed with Shtterman that the engine 61 he is selling is in fact that latest, greatest iteration of the CXL. The engine pictured on the site is the wrong engine and and will be removed.  

[Lauri Malila]

How big (or small) part of Enya's production CL engines is? I guess quite small, they are more like doing goodwill for the CL community.
A while ago I talked with the boss of Irvine engines. He said, that for a company like OS (who also produce some Irvine's), a year's CL engine production is something like 1/2 days work. That's how small we are.

L

[Paul Smith]

The number of engines offered in the Tower catalog and other such publications is decreasing at an alarming rate.  Clearly, the manufactures would prefer to rake in profit on the much-simpler electric motors.  No need to worry about metallurgy, high stresses and thermal expansion.

I have a lifetime supply of piston engines.  I just need to lay in enough glow plugs and fuel.   

[Randy Cuberly]

How big (or small) part of Enya's production CL engines is? I guess quite small, they are more like doing goodwill for the CL community.
A while ago I talked with the boss of Irvine engines. He said, that for a company like OS (who also produce some Irvine's), a year's CL engine production is something like 1/2 days work. That's how small we are.

L

I'm sure it doesn't take long for OS to simply reroute production on their R/C engines to install a venturi and needle valve.  You must consider that they don't produce any engines intended for C/L from the ground up or it would likely take quite a bit longer...Not to mention costing quite a bit more!

So basically you're comparing apples and oranges.  I'm sure they're happy with the sales of LA46S engines or they would stop producing them.  The LA25S is likely the same story...They sell enough to support production or it would stop.

The real problem is producing C/L specific engines from the ground up and I believe that's mostly what Enya is doing.

My guess is that cost and lack of production facilities that can be dedicated to C/L specific engines like the PA's is why they are not available anymore.

I investigated building a production type 61 or 65 size stunt engine a couple of years ago when the PA engines became a dead horse!
Using American Job shop machine facilities (that are by the way quite capable of doing the work superbly) it became very clear that manufacturing the parts and doing the assembly myself would result in a retail cost of close to $600.00 with less than a 15% profit margin including the assembly work.  That is in lots of 50 engines.  50 X 500 = $25,000 dollars and that doesn't include the casting tooling or parts.  If the quantities could be stretched to lots of 200 then cost would go down significantly but still over $400.00, and of course the investment in each lot would increase a "LOT"!  200 X $325 = $65,000.  Risky??? Yeah, and probably why there aren't a bunch of folks rushing to do it.  That doesn't include casting tooling or parts either.  I didn't even bother to see what they would cost!  But I would guess another $3,500.  A barstock engine might be a little cheaper if you could find someone with a really good tooling center that is not already tied up with aerospace work.  There are other problems with that of course.

Making parts in Korea or china could reduce manufacturing costs significantly but those people can only be trusted if you watch them constantly and that adds a lot of cost, not to mention the risk of increased scrap.

I'm sure this is no fresh news to other engineers or people who work in the machining/assembly area.  But just thought I would show this for those less informed about manufacturing processes etc.

Anybody want to try to compete with ROJett or Enya...probably not!  Thank GOD for both of those entrupreneurs...I don't think they're getting rich doing what they're doing!

Randy Cuberly

[Balsa Butcher]

I think Kenn Enya may be the Duke Fox of Japan. As long as he is still in charge they will continue making C/L engines, albeit in limited quantities. This is speculation on my part, take it for what it is worth. One thing they do do is mix and match engine parts. Many of the engines are designed so the front ends are removable rather than the back plate. This allows the same case to be used for a plain bearing engine or a BB engine, just different front end. Same with pistons, ringed vs iron vs ABC (or ABN...whatever). Well I don't like the way every Enya I have runs, the ones I do like I REALLY like. Current favorites: SS50 ringed, 40 XZS Pro, 61 CXRS Pro SE (ABC version).

[Brett Buck]

I'm sure it doesn't take long for OS to simply reroute production on their R/C engines to install a venturi and needle valve.  You must consider that they don't produce any engines intended for C/L from the ground up or it would likely take quite a bit longer...Not to mention costing quite a bit more!

So basically you're comparing apples and oranges.  I'm sure they're happy with the sales of LA46S engines or they would stop producing them.  The LA25S is likely the same story...They sell enough to support production or it would stop.

The real problem is producing C/L specific engines from the ground up and I believe that's mostly what Enya is doing.

My guess is that cost and lack of production facilities that can be dedicated to C/L specific engines like the PA's is why they are not available anymore.

   There haven't been any "cl specific" engines for around 50 years or so, anyway. An ST46 was a dead stock engine with either a carb or venturi plunked into it, there was no difference. Actually, come to think of it, at least since RC became a viable proposition in the 60's, I don't think that *anyone* has produced a "cl" version and an "rc" version of an engine aside from very rare cases (like the 40FSR "Stunt", and that was barely any different) or customs like the PA 61.

    And, even more so, what the heck would you do differently to make a "CL specific engine"?  The current crop of engines, all the way back to the 80's, are absolutely outstanding stunt engines. We could have only dreamed of something like an 46LA back in the day of ST46s. One of the best stunt engines of all time was/is a bone stock unmodified RC pattern engine that was a very slightly modified RC pylon engine from around 1979 - the OS 40VF. There's a huge array of very good engines that will provide competitive performance, are way better than anything we had back in the good old days - and they are almost all converted RC engines.

    I can't think of anything you would do to a 46LA to make it a lot better, you take it out of the box, put on the right prop, and fly it. The endless series of "tweaks" are mostly unnecessary or detrimental. We could have only dreamed of having engines this good. I am not sure what anyone thinks they would change.

     Brett

[Randy Cuberly]

  There haven't been any "cl specific" engines for around 50 years or so, anyway. An ST46 was a dead stock engine with either a carb or venturi plunked into it, there was no difference. Actually, come to think of it, at least since RC became a viable proposition in the 60's, I don't think that *anyone* has produced a "cl" version and an "rc" version of an engine aside from very rare cases (like the 40FSR "Stunt", and that was barely any different) or customs like the PA 61.

    And, even more so, what the heck would you do differently to make a "CL specific engine"?  The current crop of engines, all the way back to the 80's, are absolutely outstanding stunt engines. We could have only dreamed of something like an 46LA back in the day of ST46s. One of the best stunt engines of all time was/is a bone stock unmodified RC pattern engine that was a very slightly modified RC pylon engine from around 1979 - the OS 40VF. There's a huge array of very good engines that will provide competitive performance, are way better than anything we had back in the good old days - and they are almost all converted RC engines.

    I can't think of anything you would do to a 46LA to make it a lot better, you take it out of the box, put on the right prop, and fly it. The endless series of "tweaks" are mostly unnecessary or detrimental. We could have only dreamed of having engines this good. I am not sure what anyone thinks they would change.

     Brett

Hi Brett,
I agree basically with what you said and in fact it was the primary point of my post.
I would add however that some of the most successful expert level stunt engines were essentially built from the ground up or at least, like the PA from highly modified competition engines.
My intention was to design and build a stunt specific engine that would be light and still not built for the higher stress conditions of R/C and Speed engines.

Richard Oliver and Dubb Jett did it by developing on their racing engines.  Randy Smith and Henry Nelso did it by developing on Henry's speed and Combat engines.

Some of the Ukraine and other East European engines are more like what I was talking about.  As far as I know they were developed strictly as CL stunt engines!

At any rate it's not a practical undertaking for me now and I seriously doubt it would be for anyone.

Randy Cuberly

[Richard Field]

The 61CXLS is Enya's modern CL "Baldy"…see pic next to an original 1962 ENYA 45 Model 6001..

[Brian Hampton]

There haven't been any "cl specific" engines for around 50 years or so, anyway.

Except for the CL version of the ST G51 with modified cylinder port timings. Irvine also had their magnificent 40RLS.

[Balsa Butcher]

I guess one could also put the late/almost great Evo NX 60 in the C/L specific catagory. Case was from the Evo 46 and it was developed with help from Dave Adamisin. R/C version came later.

[Steve Hines]

I went to Tom Dixon's web site and it does not show any motors. Has anyone heard about this.

Steve

[david beazley]

I recently picked up an Enya 09 and a TD.051 at a local swap meet for 20 bucks total.  They were in pretty good shape and the TD looked like it never had been mounted.  Anyway, I rung off the carb barrel screw while disassembly and after appropriate words were said I decided to see if I could procure the needed parts.  I wound up on Enya's website and after figuring out the translations i decided to order some parts.  I ordered a new carb, and a venturi and NVA for it and a venturi and NVA for an old .15 i have.  That was on Jan 11th. I received the parts on the 21st and was charged 650 Japanese yen for registered air mail (about $5.50 USD). Not bad for shipping half way around the globe. 

[john gunn]

I bought all my ENYA motors from BJ model, he is an Enya dealer and has parts for the motors, good service is part of his business.  I have several Enya motors and all run good.   

[Chris Wilson]

Except for the CL version of the ST G51 with modified cylinder port timings. Irvine also had their magnificent 40RLS.

What about the R&B 40, 51, 60 and 75 series of CL specific engines or Stalker and Cyclon 60 or even the very specific stunt purposed PAW 40?

Or if you want to include liner changes then MVVS 49 and 51in their Akrobat format were very stunt specific.

[George Hostler]

David is right. The Oct 2014 issue has a three page layout about Enya. It appears to be a three man outfit now. All by hand on old lathes, etc. They claim to have parts for at least 30 years but some even for 60 year old engines. If others are working there, the article didn't elaborate or I missed it. 

I think the positive in this is that overall, those with Enya engines in their CL planes have continued support. I like the Enya engines because they are strong torquey engines, long lasting and the smaller like the Enya .15-III do a decent wet-2 to fast-2 break in the circle. 

[Chris McMillin]

get 'em while their hot, boys. Sounds like these men are doing their best for the amount of time they can inretirement. Like Mr. Kato of MK in Japan that just retired and closed MK, they won't do it forever. Nice looking engines.
Chris...

[Luiz Ribeiro]

 

get 'em while their hot, boys. Sounds like these men are doing their best for the amount of time they can inretirement. Like Mr. Kato of MK in Japan that just retired and closed MK, they won't do it forever. Nice looking engines.
Chris...

I  am  of  the  same opinion.

Luiz

[George Hostler]

I checked their website in Japan. They are out of stock on a lot of the engines for now. Only ones in stock are (RC): 60XF AL-CHROME GM9, 36-4C AL-CHRO TN 4-stroke, SS30BB TN, 36-4C SS15 TN, 15-V TV W/Slant NV, ULTRA11CX TN, Quicky 09 TV W/Slant NV; (CL): SS15BB S, SS15 S, 15-V, Quicky 09 S; (RC Gas): 180X GS; (Diesel CL/FF): SS15DBB S, ULTRA11CXD S. Except for the gasser and 60XF and 4-stroke, these are all small engines. The remaining larger are sold out for now.

[Chris Wilson]

The 50SS is still available in marine or heli form and seems only to need a small air cooled head and fixed Venturi.

[George]

AFAIK Enya has always been a family owned and operated company. I first read about their business in the late fifties. I believe it was in MAN magazine. If I remember correctly, it was a three man operation back then too. As far as using old machinery, since the parts are hand fitted that is not an issue. ALL of my Enyas have good parts fits.
 
I like Enya engines and have .09-.40 sizes...old ones. Most required a decent break-in (heat cycling) to get best power since all are iron/steel.

I believe most engines are produced in batches by machine shops that get most of their income from other projects. If I understand postings correctly, that is what's happening at FOX. I'm told that some large Chinese machine shop(s) produce more than one engine. That also makes sense because a business can't allow its facilities to be idle for long.

As far as small engine producing shops go, I understand that PAW is another. The PAW diesels that I have are also excellent engines.

George

[Steve Thomas]

This just turned up at the front door. For a few blokes working old machinery in a family business, I reckon they're not doing a bad job. 

[Chris Wilson]

I wonder with a name like "Enya Metal Products" they produce other items as well?

[Avaiojet]

This just turned up at the front door. For a few blokes working old machinery in a family business, I reckon they're not doing a bad job.  

Steve,

Handsom!

What does it weigh? 11.5 oz I believe?

[Steve Thomas]

Steve,

Handsom!

What does it weigh? 11.5 oz I believe?

11.7 oz

[MarcusCordeiro]

I'll soon get two of the new ABC 61s...
Love their engines!!

Marcus

[proparc]

Waiting to purchase a couple of their side exhaust 61's. If their motors are still as good as the ones I had, I will make those 3 guys coffee, and get donuts for them.

[Andrew Tinsley]

For three old guys and a load of ancient kit, they make engines better than almost all their competition! I can understand why Randy needs to drop them from his lines. I can afford to wait for such excellent workmanship, Randy needs engines to sell off his shelves.
Depends if you are willing to wait, simple as that.

Andrew.

[Allan Perret]

Went flying today, had a new Enya 30SS on the nose of my Primary Force.  This engine had only five 2-minute bench runs before I put it in the air.  First flight I had the needle to rich.  Leaned it out for the 2nd flight but I overcorrected and it went lean right after launch.  Fast 2-cycle for 9-10 minutes and I'm thinking the little Enya is not happy with me right now.  It went thru a couple of sagging heat cycles and was definitely hot after landing, but the Enya took it all in stride.  Within a minute or two I checked and it still had good compression and the bottom end was still free and smooth.  The torture test didn't seem to phase it.
Did not crank it again, but for other reasons.  I'm sure its fine.

Also had my new Red Head 61 on the test stand with me for its 1st bench runs.  But didn't get around to it cause I was having too much fun flying.  Expect to make 1st runs with it tomorrow. 

[Brian Hampton]

My CXLS arrived yesterday so I partly stripped it to compare any differences to my ringed version. There are slight timing changes to the cylinder ports (4 degrees less total opening), probably due to manufacturing tolerances stack up, and the crankshaft timing has been reduced from 195 to 190 degrees (opens later and closes earlier). None of which should make any noticeable difference compared to the ringed version. The cylinder head is now one piece with the same combustion chamber volume but now has a much tighter squish clearance so compression has gone from 8.75 to 9.3 and thread length is perfect for the Enya (or OS) medium length plugs. An extra washer for a normal long reach is almost as good.

Typically Enya its beautifully made, with one exception . The flat on the backplate for piston clearance looks like it was done with a very coarse file!

[proparc]

Typically Enya its beautifully made, with one exception . The flat on the backplate for piston clearance looks like it was done with a very coarse file!

Must have been close to lunch time!!!

[Allan Perret]

<<Enya (or OS) medium length plugs.>>

Which Enya plugs do you consider to be medium length ?  I was going to use a #3 or #4.

I removed the backplate on one of mine and it looks the same as you described, but nothing that concerns me.  Was thinking  about running mine on bench tomorrow.  Do you think it is good idea to open it up and check for metal filings first ?

If I remember right you were running a ringed version with muffler.  Putting the ABC in the same plane and setup ?

I have my ringed 61 in a SV-11 with pipe.  Soon as I get some bench runs and it seems stable will swap the ring engine with the Red Head and put it in the air, probably by next weekend if weather is OK...

[Brian Hampton]

Which Enya plugs do you consider to be medium length ?  I was going to use a #3 or #4.

Allen, all Enya plugs are a medium length going right back to the very first ones (#1 and 2) made for Enya and using nichrome wire. Also Enya have never made an idle bar plug.

Yes, my ringed 61 with muffler is in an SV-11 too and the new one will get dropped back in with the same muffler/prop/plug as a direct comparison.

[Allan Perret]

Made the first bench runs on the new Red Head today.   Starting a new thread for the this engine in the "Engine Section".

[david beazley]

I just took a look at the Enya website.  I have been checking it every several weeks to see if and when engines are in stock.  Today the only products that show up on their shopping tab are parts and accessories.  No complete engines are listed, stock or out of stock.  Before they showed up as "out of stock". I sent an email to ask if they are still selling engines.  Will post response when/if I get one.  Not looking good.

[George Hostler]

David, you are right. I went to their website, http://www.enya-engine.com/index_E.htm, clicked on Shopping. Sure enough, the 4 stroke and 2 stroke (all) engine categories are gone. After verifying, I posted your findings on RCGroups in the Aircraft - Fuel - General > Engines Discussion > Enya engines ...who's still using them? thread.

Given that over time, more and more engines have been listed "Out of Stock" and that last I checked a few weeks ago this new 61 CL, several marine and heli, and small "A" sized engines were listed does not surprise me. A good number of parts such as CL venturis are listed "Out of Stock". I gather the possibility that they are basically selling out what they have in stock and will eventually close their doors.

Hopefully I am wrong and that parts may eventually be replenished and a few engines restocked. You're right, it doesn't look good for now. I am interested to hear what reply you receive from Enya.

[Randy Ryan]

When you think about the overall demand for model IC engines these days, it's hard to imagine it being anything but a cottage industry. In fact it's something of a miracle that anyone bothers at all. In the case of Enya, they list a wide range of engines, but I guess the market just isn't there to have them all in continuous production, so they just do occasional runs of them as they see fit. Full credit to them for supporting CL, though. In the last year or so they've brought out a PB lapped version of the SS45, specifically for CL, and introduced that new spiral venturi. Dunno how much of an improvement it is, but it's nice that they're taking the trouble.

And: about a week ago, a new ABC version of the 61CX went on sale. This is an 11.7 oz, rear exhaust engine selling for about US$190 and specifically intended for CL stunt. This fact went completely unnoticed here, while we continued to discuss the merits of the LA46, as usual.  . Like I said, it's a miracle that they bother at all.

That's the other thing I like about them.  Even if the engines aren't in stock, their parts support is always excellent. A couple of years ago they sent me a new shaft for an engine that hadn't been produced for about 45 years. We should appreciate these sort of people while we still can.

Steve

This is so true and as electrics gain popularity the IC market will shrink until is colapses. Its sad but true for IC lovers. The same holds true for fuel blenders, no engines, no fuel.

[john e. holliday]

Did they not say the same about ignition engines?