News:



  • May 23, 2024, 03:57:07 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: What is the bestest-flying, goodest-looking profile stunt ship for LA-46?  (Read 8244 times)

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Quote
my first choice would be the Imitation

Brett:

Looking at the plans for the Imitation, I would have to ask "which one?"  The plane was designed for experimentation with adjustables (such as flap length).  I would want to change out the circular bellcrank for a 4 inch and I would probably want to use the Thundergazer stab airfoil instead of what's shown.  While I am revising the stab and elevator shouldn't I also increase their area to bring them to modern standards?  What's my target?  And what flap-length do I want to use (the plans show a number of choises)?  Should the wing still be equal panel length?  Having flown a number of LA-46 powered ships, I wonder if that airfoil is pushing too much air for the LA and needs slimming?   And what else to make sure it is Nth generation and not just a nice-flying airplane from many years ago?

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12822
While I am revising the stab and elevator shouldn't I also increase their area to bring them to modern standards?  What's my target?

Ooh.  A Fancherized Imitation.  Cool.

The Imitation was originally designed for experimentation -- so yes, there's options on options.  I think I'd take a set of Thundergazer or Impact plans and crib the numbers off of that.

A 46LA will fly a pretty big plane -- a 700 square inch, 72 ounce Impact-like plane is within its capabilities, if tenuously.  600 or 650 square inches, for sure, particularly if it's less than 72 ounces.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6159
Ooh.  A Fancherized Imitation.  Cool.

The Imitation was originally designed for experimentation -- so yes, there's options on options.  I think I'd take a set of Thundergazer or Impact plans and crib the numbers off of that.

A 46LA will fly a pretty big plane -- a 700 square inch, 72 ounce Impact-like plane is within its capabilities, if tenuously.  600 or 650 square inches, for sure, particularly if it's less than 72 ounces.
I have always wondered what Ted was imitating. :!  To back up your point at 60 or so oz and 600-650 squares, an LA46 is a perfect fit.  The one I pictured earlier was just over 600 and 56oz.  It never came close to taxing the LA46 at 5.4 on 62' lines.

Just out of curiosity, if you modify a Fancherized Twister, what is it? ???

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Doug Moon

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2196
Top Flight Tudor.

Tom Farmer's Forerunner.

Doug Moon
AMA 496454
Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
Hi Scott,

Here is a picture of my favorite profile candidate that is powered by an LA 46 called Circulas 46. This was published in the final edition (Issue 1 - 2019) of Stunt News entitled "Building a Circulas 46".  For further information please see the link at:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/classifieds-92/plans-for-circulas-46/msg573206/#msg573206


Circulas 46 uses some simple and basic construction techniques that make it an easy to build model, but is more than just a basic profile. I'm also developing an electric equal at this time called the Circulas 46 IIe.

Enjoy,
Dennis

Hi Scott,

Dennis' Circulas has the advantage of being designed from scratch for a powerplant such as you're considering.  I know Dennis and have been impressed with the airplanes of his design that he flies (very well) in local events and the pics of his profile (which I have NOT seen fly as yet) look perfectly functional.  Might be  a good candidate and plans might be available.

Ted Fancher

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
I’m sort of fond of the Shameless.

Dave

The airplane's Shamefully nice Dave but I gotta vote for that gas tank!  Maybe you could make one for every ship they eventually decide on!  Yeah....sure...

Ted

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
I have to go with the Imitation,  And I am Very biased, cause I gotta brag....   54 oz, Tom Lay ST 51, Dope over polyspan, Mike Griffin wing kit and eighteenth at the 2020 Nats in Open PA...
Good year for the Lee Boys...    Grandson AJ,  First in Sr Beginner, Todd fourth,  (   #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ ) and the old guy in the Top Twenty with a profile......
thanks
Jim

Way to go, Lee boys!  Nice job on that Imitation, Jim.  Say hi to Momma for Shareen and me.

Ted

p.s.  Not to rain on your parade Jim but....you do know that an Imitation actually placed 5th at the Nats one year, right? 


Well, put more succinctly, it placed dead last in a field of five on the Walker Flyoff day after it's predecessor's powerplant puked its guts out halfway to the top of the wingover on a needle setting warm up flight earlier in the morning and the subsequent landing left a great deal to be...um...er...well...a...trashed.  It was back in the '80s sometime...1980s...not 18s.

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
I like this one.

Much as I hate to agree with Randy in public...That ship (the "flapped" Ringmaster) would be a dandy choice for a lot of reasons...not the least of which would be historical heartstrings.

Name recused to protect the guilty!

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1777
    • AirClassix on eBay
Steve: do you know if he uses the same rib or wing for most of his planes?  For a club build we need to pick one plane to build or pick a line of planes that all have the same wing or lots of commonality such that even though you can build "different" airplanes, you have a lot of commonality and it is like you are all building the same plane.


Scott, if that's what you're looking to do it's easy.  As an example, the Midwest 48" profile warbirds all use essentially the same ribs with some differences for landing gear location (dual vs trike gear).  Pick a wing for everyone - perhaps one you can at least get laser-cut ribs for - then each member can create their own fuse, wing tips, tail feathers.  Should be lots of fun!

I definitely wouldn't recommend that Midwest wing as the airfoil is a bit thin.  Lots here like the Pathfinder and Brodak supplies plan sets and laser-cut ribs ...
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Brad Smith

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
Pathfinder tricycle gear nice for take off and landings fly with the best of them on. La 46 stock
Brad smith AMA780054

Offline Steve Fitton

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2272
Steve: do you know if he uses the same rib or wing for most of his planes?  For a club build we need to pick one plane to build or pick a line of planes that all have the same wing or lots of commonality such that even though you can build "different" airplanes, you have a lot of commonality and it is like you are all building the same plane.

I'm pretty sure it's not a common wing.  The moments and areas are similiar but the wings have construction differences.
Steve

Offline proparc

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2391
If that is not the Bestest and the Goodest, I don't know what is. That said, the best profile I have ever flown was a Shameless. Flown 2 of them. Seemed to be in class of its own.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Online Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1268
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Kitbashing is acceptable also.  Make it yours, but keep the essential elements of a proven performer.

One of my favorite planes to look at is the Chipmunk-Imitation. 
Walter Hicks made this very cool Imitation, in Chipmunk livery.  It also has a lower aspect ratio, Trivial Pursuit sized tail. 
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Online Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1268
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
On the theme of modded good designs such as the various warbird planes by Don Hutchison, the Starfinder is Norm Whittle's restyling of the Pathfinder.
This one was built by Mike Haverly.  Also, in a patriotic Chipmunk-esque theme.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Online Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1268
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
If the stiff RC mount nose on the Imitation is objectionable for some archaic, quixotic reasons, just mod the design to accept traditional maple beams.

This traditional beam mount nose Imitation was built by Osni Renato.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Gary Mondry

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 212
And a closer look at the photo Jim Lee posted in reply 13 finds the same change to a traditional sidewinder arrangement on his Imitation.  Nice one, Jim.

Gary
AMA 10663

Offline Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6159
On the theme of modded good designs such as the various warbird planes by Don Hutchison, the Starfinder is Norm Whittle's restyling of the Pathfinder.
This one was built by Mike Haverly.  Also, in a patriotic Chipmunk-esque theme.
Totally Cool! #^
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline SteveMoon

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 774
    • www.ultrahobbyproducts.com
Forerunner, designed by Tom Farmer. Great flying profile
with inboard mounted motor. It has been built with both
conventional and inboard mounted motors and flies great
either way. It has also been built with both foam and built-up
balsa wings, and flies great either way. There is a 40/46 version
and a 60 version.

Steve

Offline Joseph Patterson

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 785
  • AMA member- Supporter
 I like everyone of the designs mentioned. However, my favorites would be the MO'BEST, Forerunner, and Don Hutchinson's T-6, and the Dauntless. I've seen all these fly with very competent  fliers and they flew extremely well. My next BUILD will be Hutch's BT-13.
    Doug   

Offline dave siegler

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1132
  • sport flier
    • Circlemasters Flying club
the Don H warbird would be my choice.  OR

Everyone builds a 38 special and finishes any way they want.
Dave Siegler
NE9N extra class
AMA 720731
EAA 1231299 UAS Certificate Number FA39HY9ML7  Member of the Milwaukee Circlemasters. A Gold Leader Club for over 25 years!  http://www.circlemasters.com/

Online Bob Hunt

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2756
Way to go, Lee boys!  Nice job on that Imitation, Jim.  Say hi to Momma for Shareen and me.

Ted

p.s.  Not to rain on your parade Jim but....you do know that an Imitation actually placed 5th at the Nats one year, right? 


Well, put more succinctly, it placed dead last in a field of five on the Walker Flyoff day after it's predecessor's powerplant puked its guts out halfway to the top of the wingover on a needle setting warm up flight earlier in the morning and the subsequent landing left a great deal to be...um...er...well...a...trashed.  It was back in the '80s sometime...1980s...not 18s.


I remember that day well, Ted. I was doing a warm up flight on a circle just downwind of the one you were flying on. I was in the square eight as I recall and heard this ugly sounding "whump" behind me. It was fairly windy that day, and, before I could complete the maneuver I was in, a whole lot of debris blew past me; some of it hitting me in the legs. By the way, how do you like quick links these days?

You were one less to worry about that day for the win, but you did fly that Imitation very well in the Fly-Off. We both got beat by Mr. McDonald on that occasion as it turned out...

Ah, memories - Bob 

Offline mccoy40

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Scott,

You could order up a bunch of chipmunk wing kits from SIG - and use that as your base wing planform.

Personally I have been using the novaclone rib pattern for most of my planes. Just expanded to 48 inch span and larger surfaces for stab and elevator . I usually use 3" rib spacing and a planked leading edge. 
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline FLOYD CARTER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4462
    • owner
Whatever the choice, make sure it has wing dihedral  (just a little)

(sorry: my spell checker doesn't recognize "dihedral" in any spelling.  I'm too lazy to go to the dictionary)
90 years, but still going (mostly)
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline Gerald Arana

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1536
So, what would you guys recommend as the best flying and really good looking profile stunt ship?  This would be for a club build so it can be scratch-built or maybe we'll make our own kit, so I'm not looking for a commercial kit or an ARF.  We'd power it with an LA-46 or electric equivalent.

Also, if you can, please post a picture of your favorite candidate.

Thanks!

Scott; Got some bad news for you. There is NO best looking or flying plane period.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and flying is in the hand of the pilot! %^@

Good luck, Jerry

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Quote
Nice job on that Imitation, Jim.

So Ted, what would you do to bring the Imitation up to date?  As designed it was for experimentation, but by now you probably have a good idea of exactly how to build it for best performance.  What changes would you  make? 

Offline Joseph Patterson

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 785
  • AMA member- Supporter
     I think Don has said the airfoils/wing structure are all basically the same.
       Doug

Offline Gordon Van Tighem

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 420
Tiburon (profile Shark)
Gord VT
MAAC 3738L, Life Member
AMA C3738L

Online Doug Moon

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2196
Tiburon (profile Shark)

Where can you get plans for the Tiburon?
Doug Moon
AMA 496454
Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Online Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1268
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Where can you get plans for the Tiburon?

Here are the Tiburon plans. 
I think Gordon VT had ribs laser cut by RSM.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329

I remember that day well, Ted. I was doing a warm up flight on a circle just downwind of the one you were flying on. I was in the square eight as I recall and heard this ugly sounding "whump" behind me. It was fairly windy that day, and, before I could complete the maneuver I was in, a whole lot of debris blew past me; some of it hitting me in the legs. By the way, how do you like quick links these days?

You were one less to worry about that day for the win, but you did fly that Imitation very well in the Fly-Off. We both got beat by Mr. McDonald on that occasion as it turned out...

Ah, memories - Bob

Aaah, memories!  You got that right, Bubba.  Although I could stand to forget the memories that it wasn't the only time I (we for that matter) got my/our butt/s kicked by Mr. McDonald!

Reviewing some of Shareen's old records brought back additional memories of that "event" by the way.  If any are interested here's what I "re"learned...with some purposeful intent at levity from time to time just to keep me from crying.

Good local Bay area friend Lanny Shorts was the event director in Wilmington, Ohio that year (the first of several years he did that difficult but essential task, I might add...and once again thank him) and had asked if I would mind lending him the Imitation to use to warm up/train etc. the judges. I said sure but he'd have to take it with him since we (Shareen and I) would be flying back commercial and arriving a few days after Lanny intended to start preparations, judge training, etc. 

Alas, upon our arrival I learned that Lanny had had an "oops" moment with the Imitation a day or so prior.  Turns out the Imitation had blown out  of his van (yes!, blown out!  As Bob mentioned, it was a windy event) the day before my arrival and sustained significant damage including braking the fuselage in half aft of the wing--upon being introduced to the tarmac in other than the "standard" landing configuration.  (Honest, I never landed it that bad on my own!)

I frankly don't remember whether we got together to glue it back together at the hotel or had planned to put it off until returning home but, as you know, that decision was made for us that morning of the top five flyoff.  One way or another it was in one piece prior to my first round fly off flight...but not yet test flown. 

The morning of the flyoff I was taking that ill fated needle setting/warm up flight when the Excitation (I had to look that name up in Shareen's records as well...Old Timers' having me firmly in its grasp) bit the dust...er, um..tarmac as the press would say.  For whatever reason I sure as h-e-double tooth pics wasn't going to be flying the Excitation in the next hour or so (it took the better part of the time before official flights were to begin just to get all the Excitation parts into the used airplane collection facility/garbage can).  Ergo, the Imitation had  to be called into action.  (I don't remember, by the way, how they dealt with the appearance point issue with reference to the fly off score sheets...not that it mattered so I can't be called as an expert witness should the situation arise again).

As Bubba was pleased to remind one and all, I didn't scare any of the other flyoff contestants (although I most certainly would hav...naah, forget it) but we didn't embarrass ourselves completely.

Many thanks to Bubba for reminding me and ruining an otherwise delightful morning (other than the smoke from all the forest fires scattered around the state as of the last three days!)

Ted

p.s.  Sorry for the length.  One just has to find something to do with the time while forced into "inside abode exile" by the authorities via the Corona virus and Mother Nature via the fires and smoke!  You didn't have to read it, ya know.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 02:46:56 PM by Ted Fancher »

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
So Ted, what would you do to bring the Imitation up to date?  As designed it was for experimentation, but by now you probably have a good idea of exactly how to build it for best performance.  What changes would you  make?

Hi Scott,

Nothing aerodynamically.  As I've stated on a number of occasions I found the ship to be the most enjoyable and predictable performing ship I've had the pleasure to fly (although a later competition ship, the Citation V probably ranks right with it but was never flown as much.  If one looked closely with a ruler in hand the two would probably look very similar in most respects.

What I think would be most appropriate for the "group effort" being planned would be to redraw the fuse forward of the wing to be a conventional profile layout with the only difference from the usual to be the addition of a 1/2" "tripler" on the inside of the fuselage from about the high point of the wing to the nose/spinner for rigidity, particularly appropriate given the "true" profile nature desired and the expectation of some larger power trains envisioned for the project.  The plans for the original Imitation included such "triplers" on both sides to permit the use of a radial bolt on "RC" mount to allow a conventional inverted (or other orientation) installation of the power plant.  This was done originally so as to use the ship to test a number of different engines of the era on the same airplane. A plan that never reached full utilization because the builder was too lazy...and just loved flying the dang thing!

As usual, TMI.  sorry (but what the heck else are you gonna do imprisoned in the house?)

Ted
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 02:53:01 PM by Ted Fancher »

Offline Crist Rigotti

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3860
  • Electric - The future of Old Time Stunt
Gordon, what is the wing area of the Tiburon?
Thank you.
Crist
AMA 482497
Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Dan Berry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1061
I am a bit surprised that no one has suggested building a Vector 40 profile.
One option would be a kit with a foam wing from Tom Dixon.
The other option would be 20 bucks to Brodak for a rib kit.

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Quote
I am a bit surprised that no one has suggested building a Vector 40 profile.

Actually, in an earlier post John Lindberg suggested a "Randy Plane".  I was going to tease him about it (he loves Randy Planes) but decided I shouldn't since it is a bit of an inside joke between John and me.

Online Bob Hunt

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2756
"Many thanks to Bubba for reminding me and ruining an otherwise delightful morning (other than the smoke from all the forest fires scattered around the state as of the last three days!)

Ted"

My pleasure old Buddy; what are friends for? (Probably not this...)

Bubba Hunt

Offline Don Chandler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
I have one on a Francherized Twister and it flies very well.

Don

Offline Dennis Moritz

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Prowler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Quote
Prowler

Wouldn't that be a bit over-powered with an LA-46?  More likely an LA-25 would go good in a Prowler.  No?

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13756
Wouldn't that be a bit over-powered with an LA-46?  More likely an LA-25 would go good in a Prowler.  No?

   A "new" 25LA would be pushing the limits of what I would feel comfortable with. I would think more like a 25FP, but I would look for a decent 32-36 instead. If I had a Prowler, I would use a Magnum 32.

    Brett

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
[quote If I had a Prowler, I would use a Magnum 32.
][/quote]

What?  No Fox 35?   ;D

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Hey Brett:

Still hoping to hear your thoughts on bringing an Imitation up to generation Nth in stunt ships...(Its a great design but certainly there are things to be done to improve it, yes?)

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13756
Hey Brett:

Still hoping to hear your thoughts on bringing an Imitation up to generation Nth in stunt ships...(Its a great design but certainly there are things to be done to improve it, yes?)

   To be entirely honest, most of what we have tried to "improve" it have been only marginally successful - it is the benchmark for West coast design.

   Given that, I would

   use a 4" conventional bellcrank and geometrically correct controls
   use a low-aspect ratio tail with a much thinner airfoil
   round all the surface corners around the flap and elevator hinge line
  spread the landing gear out so there is about an 18" spacing between the wheels

    DO NOT under any circumstances "hollow out" the aft fuse for weight saving as shown on the plans.

     A *stock* 46LA would be fine, an Aero-Tiger 36 would be fine. Many of them have been built using 40VFs which is a bit overkill but easily controllable.

    Brett

Online Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Quote
round all the surface corners around the flap and elevator hinge line

Thanks Brett!

Do you mean like this (see diagram)?

Note that I show the flap (or elevator) trailing edge squared off.  But should it only be the flap trailing edge squared off but the elevator trailing edge rounded?

Online Mike Griffin

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2760
In reference to Brett's above post, before I released my Imitation Kit through RSM a few years ago, both Eric Rule and I conferred with Ted to make sure we incorporated the changes that Ted wanted before the kit was released and these changes reflected most of the suggestions that Brett made.  The fuselage aft of the trailing edge of the wing consisted of a built up design that resembled a modified warren truss and then sheeted over with 1/16 balsa.  I did not release the kit until Ted's suggestions for the improved design were incorporated into the kit.

I personally built two of them from my kit and they flew as good as any built up or profile I had ever flown.

I have gotten rid of almost everything I had relating to Control Line but there could be a few of my kits still out there if you decide to go that way with the build.

Mike
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 01:31:31 PM by Mike Griffin »

Offline John Park

  • Agricola
  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 463
       DO NOT under any circumstances "hollow out" the aft fuse for weight saving as shown on the plans.
Brett:

Is this purely for resistance to flexing and twisting, or are ther other considerations?

Regards
John
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline peabody

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2867
The town here has a faceplant page....people ask "what's the best pizza?". Always draws TONS of responses and elicits arguments.
Same same water buffalo

Offline Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6159
Brett:

Is this purely for resistance to flexing and twisting, or are their other considerations?

Regards
John
I recently put the lightening holes in my last ship and was taken to the woodshed by the Moon brothers.  The explanation was primarily that the weight reduction was not worth the aft fuselage strength and I would probably need tail weight anyway (big a** battery up front).  So I weighed the plugs I had removed.  Not much.  While they were out I did a twist test on the stab and recorded how much I could lift the stab tips before the top of the rudder moved (flex).  Put the plugs back in (CA is really a cool glue) and did the test again.  About twice what it was so YES, cutting those holes does affect twisting.  I grew up in stunt back when the Fox 35 was king.  It was a very light engine and having the holes meant less nose weight.  Now that we use engines/motors that could power a small tractor I don't think trading weight for strength is what it used to be.

Don't cut them out - Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline John Park

  • Agricola
  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 463
Don't cut them out - Ken
Thanks, Ken.  I'll be using a .46LA, so I'll certainly obey Brett's injunction and leave it solid.
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13756
Is this purely for resistance to flexing and twisting, or are ther other considerations?

  Yes. Imitations are famous for *huge* twists in corners - apparently with little effect. It's probably a combination of the large high-aspect-ratio tail and the fact that the pushrod has to be off-center, so any force along the pushrod bends it sideways and causes it to twist. And of course one of the primary features is the relatively long tail moment which just makes it more flexible.

     Since some sets of rules define "profile" as 3/4", I would be very inclined to make it built-up with hard balsa fuse sides 0.7499999" wide, and maybe even laminate it with graphite pre-preg cloth and vacuum bag. With any engine aside from the ST46, and standard monokote wings/tail and epoxy paint finish,  they tend to come out  nose-heavy anyway.

    Brett

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
By the way, the Ringmaster Deluxe flies very well. Very well.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here