Well it WAS a great day at the circle......

[Gary Dowler]

Good news, bad news day.

Good news started with good flying weather and the arrival of the NV assembly from Dane Martin.  Immediately headed to the field.  First outing of the Shoestring Stunter after a series of repairs and modifications. I had repaired a shattered rudder and broken elevator, as well as a few more cosmetic things. Then a few mods that involved the cheek cowl, 0 deg rudder offset, enlargement of the elevator, longer elevator horn, replacing the bolt/nylon lock nut mounting for the engine with blind nuts, etc, and a few other things like the regular NV assembly.

First thing I noticed was how much easier the engine started. No more air bubbles in the line. Then it ran much better in flight. It was awesome.   Alterations to the horn removed the problem with excessive pitch response. I could actually keep it between 4-6' elevation during laps. Much smoother and more stable. Yet pitch response was superb!  I could actually predict what it was going to do. 

All this time I had been thinking much of the problem was my lack of skill. And to some extent I'm sure it was, but apparently the majority of the issue was trim. Thanks to Mark Scarbourough watching me a couple weeks ago and pointing things out I was able to stop trying to troubleshoot the thing blindly. What a difference.

Smoothest loops and 8's I've done in 30 years. Most stable level flight this plane has ever done. Two great flights and it was time for one more.   

A side note here, I am amazed at the fuel efficiency of the OS20 FP. My old Fox 35 would run about 5-6 minutes on 3.3 oz.  same tank but only filling it with 2.5 oz and I had 7.5 minutes of run time measured on my second flight.

Anyway, flight 3.    Was great for all of a second or so. Then both lines caught something on the ground after a couple of feet causing it to turn in sharply on me. It also climbed out beautifully as I frantically tried to regain line tension. Up and over she went and I finally got tension back just the instant before it nosed absolutely straight in.

Rekitted that one.

Was spectacular. Pieces flew all over. Left wing destroyed, fuselage snapped off at the TE, even destroyed my OS 20FP.  Broke one of the mounting flanges right off.   Worse yet was that a few people had been watching the first couple flights and a few were still watching.

Dang it, all that work and it was flying so well!!  Every single aspect of its flight was improved!  It actually showed me my skill level wasn't as bad as I thought, 90% of it had just been trim. I found I could actually fly decently. And now it's entirely gone.

Major poop! 

I'll post pics when I get home.

Gary

[Air Ministry .]

BOTHER .

This is where perseverance comes in .

Best to ' stowe ' somewhere , de - oiled .
Surprising whats actually repairable .

Did one with EVERY rib in Three Pieces , used a whole packet of pins , 200 ? .
P V A is slower , & heavier , but gives time to fettle it .

Set up on flat surface , equal packers equidistant from centerlines .

Just pretend its a ancient ming dinesty vase ! 

Good to have a beater around , the next hit dosnt hurt as much .

[Gary Dowler]

The carcass

The broken OS

The nose cone stuffed in the earth.

[Skip Chernoff]

I noticed in the pic that the field you were flying off of wasn't well groomed. When the grass is high or stuff is sticking up hold your handle very high to take off so the lines don't get caught on stuff sticking up from the ground. Ask me how I know!!!!

[Gary Dowler]

I noticed in the pic that the field you were flying off of wasn't well groomed. When the grass is high or stuff is sticking up hold your handle very high to take off so the lines don't get caught on stuff sticking up from the ground. Ask me how I know!!!!

It's in better shape than the pictures suggest. I keep the place mowed to 1.5", but it's a mix of grass and weeds and it's just about impossible to get every last stalk cut down. Been flying here for 2 years and this was a first.
Just so darn frustrating, all that work and the results were even better than hoped for, then this.

Gary

[Gerald Arana]

Good news, bad news day.

Good news started with good flying weather and the arrival of the NV assembly from Dane Martin.  Immediately headed to the field.  First outing of the Shoestring Stunter after a series of repairs and modifications. I had repaired a shattered rudder and broken elevator, as well as a few more cosmetic things. Then a few mods that involved the cheek cowl, 0 deg rudder offset, enlargement of the elevator, longer elevator horn, replacing the bolt/nylon lock nut mounting for the engine with blind nuts, etc, and a few other things like the regular NV assembly.

First thing I noticed was how much easier the engine started. No more air bubbles in the line. Then it ran much better in flight. It was awesome.   Alterations to the horn removed the problem with excessive pitch response. I could actually keep it between 4-6' elevation during laps. Much smoother and more stable. Yet pitch response was superb!  I could actually predict what it was going to do. 

All this time I had been thinking much of the problem was my lack of skill. And to some extent I'm sure it was, but apparently the majority of the issue was trim. Thanks to Mark Scarbourough watching me a couple weeks ago and pointing things out I was able to stop trying to troubleshoot the thing blindly. What a difference.

Smoothest loops and 8's I've done in 30 years. Most stable level flight this plane has ever done. Two great flights and it was time for one more.   

A side note here, I am amazed at the fuel efficiency of the OS20 FP. My old Fox 35 would run about 5-6 minutes on 3.3 oz.  same tank but only filling it with 2.5 oz and I had 7.5 minutes of run time measured on my second flight.

Anyway, flight 3.    Was great for all of a second or so. Then both lines caught something on the ground after a couple of feet causing it to turn in sharply on me. It also climbed out beautifully as I frantically tried to regain line tension. Up and over she went and I finally got tension back just the instant before it nosed absolutely straight in.

Rekitted that one.

Was spectacular. Pieces flew all over. Left wing destroyed, fuselage snapped off at the TE, even destroyed my OS 20FP.  Broke one of the mounting flanges right off.   Worse yet was that a few people had been watching the first couple flights and a few were still watching.

Dang it, all that work and it was flying so well!!  Every single aspect of its flight was improved!  It actually showed me my skill level wasn't as bad as I thought, 90% of it had just been trim. I found I could actually fly decently. And now it's entirely gone.

Major poop! 

I'll post pics when I get home.

Gary

I've had that exact same experience............ But, don't discard that engine. Chances are you'll be able to find a CC on d'bay sooner or later. Or an engine that looks shot and has a good CC that you can use those parts in.

As for the plane, build another one with the exact same mod's that you had on this one.

Cheers, Jerry

[Mike Haverly]

That lug can be welded back on.  I think Scott Dinger (and others) can help you out.

[dale gleason]

There may be an FP20 case somewhere....looks like that's all you need.

dale g

Will an FP25 case work on an FP20?

[john e. holliday]

Your big mistake was in pargraph 4.    Time for one more flight.   If I had been there you would have been told to roll lines up now.   Learn to say I have time for several more flights even if it is dark.   Amazing how well a plane shows up above the tree line when it is dark.


Yes on Ebay I have seen several crank cases that would do for you.  But, what shape is the crank in as well as the other parts?

[Ken Culbertson]

Been there, Done That but mine was a Buster.   It is all part of the learning process.  There are so many gotcha's in this sport but the good news is that this will probably never happen to you again!   Don't you just love learning the hard way.
 
Ken

[Gary Dowler]

Thanks for the support guys. I mean it.  Already sent the engine to Dane who graciously offered to repair it for me. Dane, can't thank you enough.
As to the plane, I have two choices. First is a Ringmaster which I have plans and materials for. Second, Mark Scarbourough just offered to sell me a Shoestring Stunter kit from his stash. I'm thinking I'm going to take him up on that, and just incorporate the improvements from the start.
I had been unimpressed with my flying and doubtful of my skill, which lead me to not trust the aircraft. Turned out , as I've mentioned, I was a small part of the problem, trim was 90+% of it. Those last two flights gave me my first glimpse (since flying back in the 70's-80's) of what flying a trimmed out plane is like. It was eye opening.  That aircraft became a predictable, stable, well behaved craft.  I'd like to give that another shot.
Last one was 32.5oz ready for fuel. Doing it again might get that to 30.

Gary

[MikeyPratt]

Thanks for the support guys. I mean it.  Already sent the engine to Dane who graciously offered to repair it for me. Dane, can't thank you enough.
As to the plane, I have two choices. First is a Ringmaster which I have plans and materials for. Second, Mark Scarbourough just offered to sell me a Shoestring Stunter kit from his stash. I'm thinking I'm going to take him up on that, and just incorporate the improvements from the start.
I had been unimpressed with my flying and doubtful of my skill, which lead me to not trust the aircraft. Turned out , as I've mentioned, I was a small part of the problem, trim was 90+% of it. Those last two flights gave me my first glimpse (since flying back in the 70's-80's) of what flying a trimmed out plane is like. It was eye opening.  That aircraft became a predictable, stable, well behaved craft.  I'd like to give that another shot.
Last one was 32.5oz ready for fuel. Doing it again might get that to 30.

Gary,
We have all done that a bunch of times.  The Shoe is a good model and worth building again but I would recommend a Skyray 35.  Good flying model and pretty tuff.  Make the first one just like the kit and copy all the parts and build a second and third one as time allows.  The FP 20/25 is about perfect Match for it.  If you need help let me know and I’ll help with any improvements you may think you want.

Sincerely,
Mikey

Gary

[Tim Wescott]

... The Shoe is a good model and worth building again but I would recommend a Skyray 35.  Good flying model and pretty tuff.  Make the first one just like the kit and copy all the parts and build a second and third one as time allows. ...

That.  The Skyray 35 is a great beginner/intermediate model.  You can build it as-is, or you can put on adjustable tip weight, adjustable leadouts, and two wheels -- I wouldn't do anything more than that.

[Randy Cuberly]

Incidentally the FP25 case is exactly the same as the FP20.  The only difference is the marking.  In fact I have an FP20 that I made with an FP25 case when FP20's were very scarce.

Randy Cuberly

[Air Ministry .]

If you wait till its been raining for a few weeks , before you go flying . Youll find the grounds a bit softer . 

I would definately fix that . Ive seen a LOT WORSE .

Gotta Couplea Butchered FP B' Team Race Cases , the muffler mount all milled off , if youre really stuck . Gratis .

Field I flew , Winter the tractor couldnt get on to mow it . ( the Council Tractor ! ) as was Ex Marsh Land .

Consequently . . . If You Got the Lines Tight before it went in . . . The ^ inches of Absorbtion / Reduced ' G' s
often a proper stunter would be reflyable , once you got the mud out.
the Moral of This STORY !

Is it pays to find a Soft Field for the initial ' I didnt get this quite right ' exploratory aerobatic stage . Perhaps .

ANYWAY . DONT CHUCK IT OUT . Looks a easy fix  in relative terms .
Align the easy bits , scarf in reinforcemets etc .
Maybe cut a few new bits if youre going to be extravagant . 

Wont be as devestateing the next time it occurs .  . Why paint on the inner wing'd even be unnecesary .

Im appaled now at the stuff I must have thrown out , damadged , as a teenager .
All bought & paid for by paper runs , milk runs etc . To much of a hurry then ?

Most Repairs are stright forwar with P V A or Aliphatic / Yellow wood glue . Probably Thinned a bit for penetration .

Do a light dry fit ,
Then coat BOTH surfaces , Light Wet Fit .
Remove & inspect for dry spots . re apply gook .

Fit Together and force firmly into place , wipe off excess . and PIN ./ Tape .

A few parts at a time , checking alignment half set ( These glues take a day or two in the cold season. a hour or two in the heat . )

Main Issue is seeing its all ALIGNED . L E , T E , Wing Tip . And your nearly Done !

Look at the COST and Hom Much of that is Still INTACT . At Most It Just Needs a NEW WING . appart from the little matter of the Engine ,
and maybe a propellor .