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Author Topic: Ukraine lines  (Read 13604 times)

Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Ukraine lines
« on: March 22, 2018, 07:03:57 AM »
new post on Amazon offering  flying lines
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077XQ6985/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3QOAKRTLJTQ27

it offers choice of  7 strand stainless or 4 strand brass (or brass coated?)
Is anyone familiar with the 4 strand?
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775


Offline mike londke

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 08:06:29 AM »
$30? Kind of steep. Are they made from Unicorn hair? LOL #^
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Offline Abi

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 08:51:27 AM »
$30? Kind of steep. Are they made from Unicorn hair? LOL #^

Not if you look at details. This information is from Amazon:

  • price includes shipping
  • Lines come already made in lengths.
  • pre-made lines are pull tested.

No other seller does this. Also, this is the only distributor of 4-strand lines in US that I know of.
Abi
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Online Al Ferraro

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 09:15:17 AM »
 Buy lines from Tom Morris $20.00 plus shipping.
  Custom Lengths and lines are wrapped not crimped.
Al

Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 10:32:48 AM »
Why would i want to use four strand "brass"? What are benefits vs traditional 7 strand stainless? I use nothing but linea from Tom.
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Online Massimo Rimoldi

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 10:58:00 AM »
Hello.
I do not think the lines are brass.
From the Ukraina it is possible to obtain 4 strand lines in carbon steel brass coated , probably the one who translated the description was not accurate.
These are significantly stiffer than stainless steel, but stronger.
These lines are widely used for combat and by stuntmen from Eastern Europe.
Obviously maintenance must be more accurate due to potential corrosion.
However (in this case) the price does not seem appealing.

Massimo

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 11:17:39 AM »
There are several types of those east-European lines, I'd like to know what these exactly are. But in general they are clearly better than any stainless lines I have tested. But the price is shorter service life, especially if you fly a lot in humid conditions.
I keep oiling them with turbine oil, then wipe as dry as posdible with paper.

Lauri

Offline John Sanchez

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 06:34:11 PM »
After seeing this I ran up to the local hobby shop and bought a set of "Sig" 70' x .018 for $12.00.
John Sanchez

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 08:49:25 PM »
I'll make my own from McMaster-Carr cable. Thanks.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
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Offline Guilherme Souza

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 10:26:20 PM »
Dear All

Here in Brazil all top fliers use Ukraine lines .
I bought my from Yuriy Yatsenko (but Iīm not a top flight  very very bad flier)
The lines are different .
when you pull the lines the normal lines have flexibility , these Ukrainian lines  is very rigid not elastic .

Sorry my English is difficult to  explain

thank you

Guil

Offline Ron Varnas

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 10:46:30 PM »
Don't think you'd see a few of the stretch prone "stainless" lines mentioned above used at the W/C's  ::)
let alone "Sig" probably worst of the bunch.
RJV Melb. Australia

Offline Ron Varnas

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 10:57:32 PM »
Hello.
Many thanks to the administrators who missed me on this forum.
I very carefully read all the statements of the participants of the topic Ukrainian Lines and I really want to answer all questions since I am the manufacturer of this product. All lines are produced only by my hands and in small quantities. Before winding the plastic coil, each of the two lines is checked by a force of 22lb (10kg) for a diameter of 0.015in (0.38mm), 30lb (13.5kg) for a line with a diameter of 0.018in (0.45mm) and 40lb (18kg) for a line 0.014-0.016 in(0.36mm - 0.40mm). One line of carbon steel coated with brass withstands a tensile strength of 60lb (27kg).
Lines ready to use are produced of such length - 42-50-56-60-65-66 feet.
Kit sets of lines .015, .018, and .016 are produced of this length - 70 feet.
The lines covered with brass from the effects of moisture darken over time, but this does not change its characteristics. I, and my friends, all the members of the national team Stunt of Ukraine (my friend Sergey Solomyannikov, the owner of the World Cup F2B), and all the members of the F2D Combat national team of Ukraine, we use only brass 4-wire lines. In 2017, I personally flew all year on a single set of brass lines and performed 450 flights on the Stunt  model with a 76 Stalker engine. It is a very powerful engine and we have very large aircraft models, and in very strong winds we fly only on the strongest lines that can be for today.
I'm very sorry that the price for the product that I installed on Amazon you all think is very high. I very carefully listen to criticism in my address. If you think that the cost of the product is very high, then write me here on the forum or me by e-mail. I will definitely listen to you and set the price of lines for Amazon less. It is very unfortunate that Amazon for the storage of goods and free delivery removes from my price 4.5USD (15% tax) + 2.41USD FBA FEE. Transfer of the line from Ukraine to the USA - $ 2USD . From the purchase of goods, I have only 21.08USD.
Who wants to test Kit sets of brass lines and write the result of the tests on the forum - write me your home address to the post office and in 5-7 days receive them for free.

Thank you very much for your attention.
Sincerely.
Ruslan Kurenkov / Stunt Pilot / FAI 95898 / Ukraine Kyiv / controllineparts@gmail.com


Ruslan Kurenkov,  knows his "stuff" these guys don't fly profile Ringmasters  HB~>
RJV Melb. Australia

Online Chad Hill

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2018, 11:09:03 PM »
The Ukrainian F2d combat lines that Mr. Kurenkov speaks of are much stronger than anything comparable we have here stateside. The length of the 2 individual lines are always virtually identical. Lines can be interchanged time-after-time with no control adjustment required on the airplane. I would assume that the same is true for stunt type lines.

Offline Ron Varnas

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2018, 11:23:47 PM »
Experience & logic prevails hoorah  #^
RJV Melb. Australia

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 11:26:34 PM »
After seeing this I ran up to the local hobby shop and bought a set of "Sig" 70' x .018 for $12.00.

You have a local hobby shop that knows what lines are?  Wow!
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2018, 09:26:09 PM »
I believe these lines are more about stiffness than strength.

The "feel" like 18's, but are only 16's. Better aerodynamics and better feel.

The average sport flier need not spend that much money, but competition fliers might benefit.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2018, 09:57:37 PM »
With only 4 strands but higher tensile strength there would theoretically be less compression in the cable which probably translates to much less "spring".  That in my humble opinion has to be a good thing for real competition fliers!

I want some!!

Do they "handle and wrap" in the same manner as the more multi stranded wire or are they a lot stiffer to deal with when wrapping the ends?

What about the fact that they are .016 and AMA rules require .018 for 64 oz and heavier aircraft?  Problem???

Randy Cuberly
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 11:12:23 PM by Randy Cuberly »
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2018, 10:34:04 PM »
Hello.
Many thanks to the administrators who missed me on this forum.
I very carefully read all the statements of the participants of the topic Ukrainian Lines and I really want to answer all questions since I am the manufacturer of this product. All lines are produced only by my hands and in small quantities. Before winding the plastic coil, each of the two lines is checked by a force of 22lb (10kg) for a diameter of 0.015in (0.38mm), 30lb (13.5kg) for a line with a diameter of 0.018in (0.45mm) and 40lb (18kg) for a line 0.014-0.016 in(0.36mm - 0.40mm). One line of carbon steel coated with brass withstands a tensile strength of 60lb (27kg).

   Rusian - do the .018" lines actually measure 0.018?  I ask because I got some Ukrainian lines in the past that were smaller than a true 0.018 in some directions. For airplanes over 64 ounces, we cannot use them if they measure under 0.018".

     I have flown on the .016 lines and found the same as Paul, they were distinctly more positive in terms of feel than the usual 0.018 7-strand and much better than the .018 19=strand. But they are illegal for competition for my airplane (and likely future airplanes).

    Brett
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 09:43:19 AM by Brett Buck »

Offline Motorman

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2018, 09:05:56 AM »
Ruslan, thanks for posting information and for providing a superior product.  You list length - 42-50-56-60-65-66 feet is that from eyelet to eyelet? I sent you an eMail.

Thanks,
Motorman 8)
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Online Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2018, 11:39:27 AM »
Hello, friends !
I am very glad that I have the opportunity to communicate with all members of your forum.
There are athletes I did not know before, but there are athletes I know very well about achievements.
Stainless Lines that we produce (command controllineparts) are not really Ukrainian. Brass lines are produced at a large plant in Belarus (200 miles from Kiev). In Ukraine, only the final product is produced. Before packing, each separate line ready for use, after crimping with copper tubes, is tested by me personally for the strength of both the cable itself and the crimp tubes and eyelets. During the test, a marriage is identified which is utilized. Only after the test the line is wound on the reel, packed and sent to the buyer. For me, as for the pilot stunt model, the most important thing is the quality of the product. I guarantee with the utmost responsibility the highest quality of my products.
For the tests, I sent to my good friend in the United States 10 sets of brass rope 70' long and 0.0145 (0.36 mm) diameter. This is the lightest and most durable (60lb) rope for Stunt model for today. At World Championships where American pilots participate, the FAI rules allow such a cable. I want to send it for testing to top American pilots like Paul Walker and Brett Buck and other pilots who participate in the discussion. For this, I need a delivery address and everything. All these 10 sets I'm ready to send free of charge. The delivery time is 3-5 days for USA.
The length of the cable 42-50-56-60-65-66 is from the eyelet to the eyelet.
If you have any questions about the products of the controllineparts, I will certainly reply within 12 hours (a big difference in time, when you have a day - I have a night).
Thank you very much for your communication.
Respectfully. Rusalan Kurenkov. https://www.facebook.com/ruslan.kurenkov  / Controllineparts.
site  :  https://controllineparts.com/ PayPal payment system

A photo! Command controllineparts. From left to right - Sergii Solomianikov, Ruslan Kurenkov, Andrii Sopelniak.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 04:50:54 AM by Ruslan Kurenkov »

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2018, 12:26:01 PM »
For the tests, I sent to my good friend in the United States 10 sets of brass rope 70' long and 0.0145 (0.36 mm) diameter. This is the lightest and most durable (60lb) rope for Stunt model for today. At World Championships where American pilots participate, the FAI rules allow such a cable. I want to send it for testing to top American pilots like Paul Walker and Brett Buck and other pilots who participate in the discussion.

   Rusian - thanks for the offer! I have tried the lines from the Yatsenkos, I presume that these are similar.  I will have to decline, I think, unless I am misunderstanding the issue. I would love to be able to use the brass-plated steel lines for the performance advantages, but unfortunately, if I understand correctly, they would not be legal for me to use in competition.

   What you may not know is that the strength of the lines is only one of the factors for the legality of the lines. The AMA requires the lines to be a minimum diameter as well. The diameters are based on the commonly-available US line sizes - 0.008", 0.012". 0.015", 0.018" and 0.021 inches. They are chosen based on the model weight, and the industry stndard strength of stainless-steel 7-strand wire rope.



     Unfortunately, I would require 0.018" diameter lines (as measured - and they do measure them) for my models. The .016 lines would be legal but oversize for models less than 64 ounces, which might be worth doing for some near the top of the weight range, but are heavier and have more drag. The .0145 lines would only be usable for models less than 40 ounces, for which they are quite a bit oversize.

     Almost no one (or maybe literally no one) reading Stunthangar today will ever fly in a contest where the FAI rules are used, so that is the issue people are having with the topic.

    If I understand your comment correctly, the .018 line are "Fly By Wire" cables from Cablestrand, not the brass-plated steel lines we were discussing previously. I have already tested those, so no need for additional experimentation.

    Brett

Offline Daniel_Munro

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2018, 12:53:39 PM »
A few guys here in New Zealand use them. I believe they have much less stretch than stainless lines.

I have been using PAW Staystrate 3 strand lines, which are made from fine piano wire and have been run through a solder bath. They are awesome, no stretch and they do not bind up at all.

Online Mike Scholtes

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2018, 01:27:19 PM »
Hi Ruslan:

My competition model is 52 ounces and flys on 60-foot .015 multi-strand lines, so your brass-coated 60-foot .016 would work for me.

The advertisement on Amazon (posted above) says the eyelets and crimping are installed by the buyer, but your comment above says the lines are sold ready-to-use with eyelets installed. Can you clarify which is correct? Of course I prefer ready-made ready-to-use.

I would like some less springy lines and yours sound like a good product.


Online Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2018, 03:55:09 PM »
Hi Ruslan:

My competition model is 52 ounces and flys on 60-foot .015 multi-strand lines, so your brass-coated 60-foot .016 would work for me.

The advertisement on Amazon (posted above) says the eyelets and crimping are installed by the buyer, but your comment above says the lines are sold ready-to-use with eyelets installed. Can you clarify which is correct? Of course I prefer ready-made ready-to-use.

I would like some less springy lines and yours sound like a good product.
Hi Mike
All product descriptions were originally generalized, as on the back of the product packaging. Now my good friend American is editing them to make it very clear. All products which are a Ready to Use with installed eyelets and crimp copper tubes (very clearly seen in the amazon photo). The Control lines of control that need to be crimped most sold under the name Kit Set 70' (.015/.016/.018), there are no eyelets and copper crimping pipes and are inside the package (very clearly seen in the amazon photo)
I'm sorry that you did not understand, it's my fault. I apologize.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2018, 04:51:10 PM »
I've ordered a set from Amazon to try.  Most of my airplanes are typically under 60 oz.

Incidentally, the lines from "Amazon Prime" cost $21.50 shipped!

They are 70ft long but are not wrapped or prepped!  That's Ok for me because I typically use lines that are different length than those prepared by any one anyway!

The idea that they are less springy is most attractive to me!

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2018, 08:21:39 PM »
PM Me and I will send my address.

Online Mike Scholtes

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2018, 08:35:40 PM »
Hi Ruslan: I went to your Controllineparts website and found the ready-to-use 60-foot brass-coated lines. I intend to order a set. I think your price is reasonable for something made in Ukraine by hand and delivered to the USA. This is actually pretty cheap for something so important!

You probably know we have a lot of Ukraine model flyers here in Northern California, mostly in free flight. Some aeronautical engineers have immigrated for jobs here, very knowledgeable people.

Online Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2018, 05:09:07 AM »
I've ordered a set from Amazon to try.  Most of my airplanes are typically under 60 oz.

Incidentally, the lines from "Amazon Prime" cost $21.50 shipped!

They are 70ft long but are not wrapped or prepped!  That's Ok for me because I typically use lines that are different length than those prepared by any one anyway!

The idea that they are less springy is most attractive to me!

Randy Cuberly
Hi Randy
I, as promised, reduced the price of the Control Lines to Amazon.
Thank you for your order.
Regards
Ruslan

PM Me and I will send my address.
Hi Paul
I'm waiting for your address to send control lines for testing.
Regards
Ruslan / controllineparts@gmail.com

P.S ( I really like the flying models of American athletes. / STILETTO Les McDonald / GENESIS Bob Hunt / THUNDER GAZER  David Fitzgerald / SPECIAL EDITION Ted Fancher / IMPACT Paul Walker.
5 years ago my dream came true. I was able to order an Ultra hobby product kit from the Impact Paul Walker from Brodak. I installed Discovery Retro 60 and got a lot of fun from flying and from touching the American F2B culture.

Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2018, 07:19:17 PM »
Quote
Brass lines are produced at a large plant in Belarus (200 miles from Kiev)



MTZ Tractor Works in BALARUS is on the B.B.C. ( Amongst the pinko libral propaganda ) at the moment . H^^

Offline Frank Wadle

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2018, 02:28:46 AM »
Hello,

Just recently I made some tests with various cables (see picture).
I tried to measure the stretch of the cables.
I used full length cables (19,8m Eye to Eye) and the test was made horizontally.
As you can see the blue line (Stainless steel 0.015" purchased from Loos Cable Co.) has the most stretch.
Green and purple, both 4 strand combat lines with 0.0165" diameter are significantly better.
The best cable tested was the PAW brand, labeled 0.015" but measured at 0.0165". But the difference is small.

The Ukraine cables would probably be very similar to the purple measurement.

I also fly the combat cables and the stainless cable. When compared directly the stiffer combat cable feels more direct.
But extreme care has to be taken when flying in humid conditions. The combat cables are prone to corrosion and need to be oiled after use. I can recommend silicone oil. If you donít oil them (or buy old cable material) then you risk your model. The corrosion sits between the strands where you canít see it. Very dangerous!


Regards
Frank Wadle

Offline Frank Wadle

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2018, 04:33:57 AM »
Actually I wonder if the stainless steel cable would have a similar stiffness IF the diameter would also be 0.0165".
Yes I know, Stainless steel has a little less modulus when compares to carbon steel.
But the 7 strand design would result in a slightly higher surface (0.1078mm≤) when compared to the 4 strand design (0.0951mm≤).
So in theory a 7 strand stainless with 0.0165" diameter would be about equal in stretch to a 4 strand carbon steel of the same diameter.
The disadvantege would be the 13% higher weigth.
The advantage would be the the corrosion resistance.

Does anyone know a source of 0.0165" (0,42mm) 7 Strand stainless cable?

Regards
Frank

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2018, 11:10:49 AM »
Well you guys can play with other lines, but I will stay with the lines I get from MBS Model Supply. S?P
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Online Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2018, 03:41:34 PM »


MTZ Tractor Works in BALARUS is on the B.B.C. ( Amongst the pinko libral propaganda ) at the moment . H^^
Hello
Hi Matt.
 Yes, the photo shows huge wheels that consist of steel cord and rubber. This is the metal cord I buy in Belarus at BMC(image). This is the most high-quality and the most durable metal cord for today, which pilots use the Combat of the whole world and European pilots Stunt models.
I'm very familiar with the rules of AMA and I know about the limitations on the diameter of the lines from the weight of the model.
I used a stainless steel cable of 0.018 in 50 flights for testing. This cable is very durable and qualitative but it creates more aerodynamic resistance which wraps the model in the inside of the circle and draws more towards the bottom for the inner wing due to the greater weight.
When there is no strong wind and very wet grass or very wet after rain, then I use a stainless rope 0.015. I like this rope more than 0.018.
World Champion Igor Burger orders for himself and for his team in our company from 10 to 20 sets of brass rope 0.016 diameters - every year. A lot of European pilots buy from us or from Sergii Solomianikov our brass rope.
This product has long been familiar to European and American athletes.
I will be very happy if our product that we recently presented in America will bring success and pleasure from the use of athletes from different countries.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 03:58:40 PM by Ruslan Kurenkov »

Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2018, 09:01:08 PM »
I was able to try these lines earlier than I expected.

Here is what I did:
I am flying my new P-47 and am in the early trimming stage. So far, only 0.018 in lines have been on it. Before going to the 4 strand lines, I put last years lines and handle on it. It was a set of 0.015 in lines.

Wow is an understatement! It was a totally different plane. It felt like last years plane, which should have been no surprise. The plane was better off aerodynamically, but I could not take the stretch.

On went the 4 strand lines. Very interesting. There was clearly less stretch than the 0.015's, but close to the 0.018 7 strands in twrms of stretch, and direct feel. However, it performed aerodynamically almost equivalent to the 0.015's. Interesting thing was the plane wanted MORE tip weight than with the 0.018's. Not sure I know why.

I have since gone out again and flown some more and am convinced they are the way to go. I am going to have to buy sone more.

Now, there is a small issue with using them here in the US. The AMA rules have a minimum line diameter based on model weight. To use these lines, your plane needs to weigh less than 64 ounces. Unfortunately those are the rules, and it would take some time to get it changed, if a rule proposl is submitted, and approved. That is easier said than done.

So, if you have a plane less than 64 ounces, I highly recommend them!

If you fly FAI, this is no issue. Wink, wink, Chris Rudd!

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »
Hey Paul,

How about posting a picture of your new P-47 for all us stay at home fliers that never get anywhere to see the "Good
Stuff!

Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2018, 10:14:27 PM »

Wow is an understatement! It was a totally different plane. It felt like last years plane, which should have been no surprise. The plane was better off aerodynamically, but I could not take the stretch.

      First time I switched back, I had about 6" bottoms on my wingovers (at a DEMO, which was a real crowd pleaser), because I didn't lead the airplane nearly enough.



Quote
On went the 4 strand lines. Very interesting. There was clearly less stretch than the 0.015's, but close to the 0.018 7 strands in twrms of stretch, and direct feel. However, it performed aerodynamically almost equivalent to the 0.015's.

      That's also consistent with my experience with the similar Yatsenko lines, and with Laystrates (both undersize but about the same diameter). I can't say I added noseweight but I would never have considered that, anyway. Very positive feel. Part of the issue is that the aerodynamic "sag" is less so they are straighter to begin with, meaning they are ahead of the game even if the linear "K" is less than real .018s. If I was under 64 (not now, maybe later...) I would certainly give them a try. They are MUCH superior to .015 stainless even if the are oversize, at least on full-size airplanes.

   As far as the rules go, I tried tilting at that windmill and ran into a brick wall, some mysterious process happens via legal review that we don't know about and don't have any input to, outside the CB, and that can torpedo everything. Maybe it would be different now, and Steve Y. seems fired up to try again, so maybe.

    Brett

Online Mike Scholtes

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2018, 10:23:38 PM »
Hi Ruslan:

Do you have your own website where your lines can be ordered, or must we use the Amazon link posted by Lyle in his original post above?

Will the 60 foot length brass-coated lines be available soon? The Amazon site says they are not now available.

Thanks,


Offline Peter Germann

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2018, 03:27:52 AM »
Switching from 19 strand 0.015 stainless steel, I flew 0.015 x 64 ft Yatsenko lines on my 64.8 oz. C.29 most of the time last year and I will not switch back. Intending to use similar (same?) lines on my new 62.4 oz. "My Way" I now have a set of 64.5 x 0.015 Ruslan lines being shipped to me. For airplane specs check "List your setup"

What remains to be considered is Frank Wadles and Lauri Malilas concern about, possibly hardly visible, corrosion between strands. Could substances such as WD 40, gun oil spray (Ballistol), or electric contact cleaning spray, be used as cleansing & protecting agent?

Peter G.
Peter Germann

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2018, 04:51:47 AM »
Hi Peter,

I haven't been so worried about destructive corrosion, but maybe Frank has been flying more lately to see such issues, of course it's a very important point.
My worry is just the increased friction when the brass layer gets oxydized/worn away and exposes the carbon steel.
I'm sure it is not a big problem in warmer/dryer climates.
About oiling the lines, there is 2 sides; oily lines attract even more dirt, and together with oil it forms a grinding paste that makes lines wear even faster. But it's a good idea to wipe lines with an oily rag after use, and then wipe several times with a clean paper & solvent before use.
I would not use WD40 or similar products because I know from experience that it seems to oxydize/harden after some time.
I use turbine oil (Shell ASTO 500), it stays liquid for hundreds of years. But it has tendency to make plastic reels brittle, so you have to be carefull with that. I have plenty of ASTO 500, you can have it if you want.
I have tried silicone oil as Frank mentioned but in my opinion it has so dramatic effect to friction that you'd better use it all the time. And you know how silicone is, it tends to contaminate everything where you touch, that's especially pain a** if you like to paint your models nicely.

Ruslan,

At some point I saw F2D lines with Ni coating instead of brass, from Stanislav Chorny if I remember right. Maybe Nickel would be a better option..?

Lauri

Offline Frank Wadle

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2018, 05:16:15 AM »
Lauri, I almost lost an an airplane two years ago because of hidden corrosion between the strands. 2 out of 4 strands broke in flight. Let me tell you, that's *ping* *ping* you hear is very frightening!!!

Last year I was also testing the combat cable with a silver coating, possibility NI. They are good and are definitely not so prone to corrosion. But I felt they have a little bit more friction.

I will now use the brass coated 4 strand material for this season. And I'll use silicon oil as I believe it is the best choice.

Yesterday I made a direct comparison (0.015" 7strand stainless vs. the 4strand 0.0165") and I have to say it is a big improvement.

Regards
Frank

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2018, 09:56:04 AM »
If my airplane comes out less than 64oz like itís projected to, I will purchase a couple sets of these lines to try on my new plane.
Matt Colan

Offline Joe Yau

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2018, 12:22:46 PM »
There seems to be 2 different types of the 4 strand cables (see pic below) type #1 is wind like the typical 7 strand .015/.018,  and type #2 is wind more like the Staystrate without the solder.  So far I have tested the type 2 with very good results.   :)
 

 
 

Online Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2018, 12:44:10 PM »
I was able to try these lines earlier than I expected.
Hi Paul.
I am very glad that you could test brass control lines so quickly. Thank you very much for your positive feedback.
Regards. Ruslan Kurenkov
Hi Ruslan:
Do you have your own website where your lines can be ordered, or must we use the Amazon link posted by Lyle in his original post above?
Will the 60 foot length brass-coated lines be available soon? The Amazon site says they are not now available.
Thanks.
Hello, Mike.
I have a website where you can order control lines of any length and any diameter with free delivery to any country in the world for 14 days by airmail. The price of any set for international free shipping will be $ 30. The site will be active in 5-7 days. (now the site is actively filled with new products and photos). If you do not have the opportunity to pay for the goods on Amazon, then write me a message with the address of delivery and I will send you an e-mail to the invoice for payment.
The goods on Amazon very quickly was sold out. Now the new party is taking inventory and customs clearance. Every day, a new batch of goods appears in the access to the purchase. I'm very sorry, but the product was provided to Amazon in small quantities. After the American buyer has positively accepted my product, I will definitely supply new control lines.
Regards. Ruslan Kurenkov

Ruslan,
At some point I saw F2D lines with Ni coating instead of brass, from Stanislav Chorny if I remember right. Maybe Nickel would be a better option..?
Lauri
Hello Lauri
I called Stanislav Chоrny and asked for a nickel-plated cable. Received the answer that this is the control line 0.35mm for Racing. Lines production of Italy.
Regards. Ruslan.


Last year I was also testing the combat cable with a silver coating, possibility NI. They are good and are definitely not so prone to corrosion. But I felt they have a little bit more friction.

I will now use the brass coated 4 strand material for this season. And I'll use silicon oil as I believe it is the best choice.
Regards
Frank
Hello Frank.
I'm very glad to hear from you.
I want to post my answer which I sent to the Australian athlete F2B from Brisbon. I do not recommend the use of oil or silicone for processing lines. And I strongly do not recommend using such products as VD-40 (it contains orthophosphoric acid)
  (I already sent 5 sets of my lines to Australia for the same price as to Amazon and 63'3".
Delivery is free for 14 days.)
Here is the complete information on the operation of brass control lines from the manufacturer.
"Hi.
I am very glad that you are interested in my product.
I am always very glad to communicate with the sportsmen of my favorite sport.
Now I produce brass steel control lines with a diameter of 0.0145 (0.366mm) diameter.
When using control lines after rain or on wet grass, before each flight and after training, the lines must be carefully wiped (!!!) with a cotton cloth moistened with gasoline for lighters or anti-silicone with the smell of gasoline. The control lines must be as clean and fat-free as possible. A water-repellent lubricant based on oil or silicone leads to the sticking of the lines between each other and to more difficult handling with jamming. So that the lines do not rust they can not be soldered (!!!). The solder contains hydrochloric or orthophosphoric acid which, when interacted with the moisture of the air, leads to severe corrosion and rupture of the lines. During operation, brass control lines necessarily change the color from golden to dark gray, darken with time. This results from the oxidation of brass from the oxygen of the air, roofs of houses. On the strength of the lines, this color change has no effect. For the last 5 years I have made 2000 training flights on F2B models. From 2000 flights I made 400 on the lines 0.015 (7 strands, 0.38mm, stainless steel), 100 flights on the 0.45mm (0.018, 7 strands, stainless) and 1500 flights on the brass lines 0.36mm (0.0145). For 400 flights over the asphalt surface, all these lines are completely out of order. There are bends, creases, hooks (defects in operation on asphalt). All athletes I know use lines only for one season (only for one year). Over the season, I change lines every 200 flights (two sets in one year) to ensure maximum controllability and safety. When using stainless lines 0.015 (0.38mm), I replaced them with new ones every 200 flights because after 200-250 flights on models weighing 1800gr. with a motor of 0.76 and in a strong wind one of the 7 strands always collapsed. I, as an athlete, treat lines as an expendable material that needs to be constantly changed to provide maximum comfort, like krosovki for runners for long distances.
Keep lines after training only in a dry, ventilated area.
Do not store lines in a plastic bag !!!
Do not store lines in a closed start box without access to dry air.
Before prolonged storage, be sure to unwind and wipe with a dry cotton cloth moistened with gasoline for lighters.
I specially tested all my lines on which I made 150-250 flights 5 years ago. After five years of storage in a dry place, in a cardboard ventilated drawer, none of my lines were destroyed by a tension of 13.5 kg (30 pounds) per line.
Before each workout, the lines must be tested with a force equal to 10x of the model.
And most importantly - before each flight it is necessary to carefully inspect the line fastenings, 95% of all defects are manifested in the places where the lines are fastened. It was during these inspections that I discovered 3 times the rupture of one of the 7 or 4 strands before departure.
All excellent flights!
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov.




Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2018, 12:59:21 PM »
If my airplane comes out less than 64oz like itís projected to, I will purchase a couple sets of these lines to try on my new plane.

   It's certainly worth considering, but be a bit careful if you are close. One of the flaws with the system is that you can be under the 64 but people are using fish scales and post office scales that have substantial tolerance, and they measure you to be 64-65 even if you are really 62.5.  Then you have to scramble to change lines, maybe at the last minute.  If it's above 62, I would get real nervous with using the .016... lines.

     Brett

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2018, 01:10:00 PM »
About oiling the lines, there is 2 sides; oily lines attract even more dirt, and together with oil it forms a grinding paste that makes lines wear even faster. But it's a good idea to wipe lines with an oily rag after use, and then wipe several times with a clean paper & solvent before use.
I would not use WD40 or similar products because I know from experience that it seems to oxydize/harden after some time.
I use turbine oil (Shell ASTO 500), it stays liquid for hundreds of years. But it has tendency to make plastic reels brittle, so you have to be carefull with that. I have plenty of ASTO 500, you can have it if you want.
I have tried silicone oil as Frank mentioned but in my opinion it has so dramatic effect to friction that you'd better use it all the time. And you know how silicone is, it tends to contaminate everything where you touch, that's especially pain a** if you like to paint your models nicely.

    I would suggest that the petroleum-based turbine oil, air tool oil, or synthetic motor oil would be a good choice. WD-40, maybe, if they get wet, but you still need to put some actual oil on them later. The same issue plagues music-wire solids, too, and dried up WD-40 definitely doesn't protect them if they get wet.   I agree about the silicone, it's a big mess to have around, and it doesn't have the same protective qualities as real oil. My Yatsenko lines, Laystrates,  and a reel of Mike Scott music wire solids are the only steel parts in my tool box that DIDN'T rust after I sat out in the rain at the 2006 NATs for an hour, all well-treated a year or so earlier with Mobil 1 0-40 synthetic.

      It doesn't matter what you do with them for storage, you clean them off dead clean and before flight anyway, then oil them again when you put them up.

      Brett

Offline Rick Huff

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2018, 01:33:59 PM »
Does anyone have any opinions on how these lines compare to solids?  I like solids, but they are troublesome when wet.  Are these lines any better than solids in this respect?

Rick

Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 02:01:41 PM »
No offence intended, but if you "like" solids, you just haven't used them enough. They WILL let you down at a critical time sooner or later.

Ask David F. about his "experience" at the 2003 team trials. They cost him a team spot for the 2004 WC's. He hasn't used them since.

I have used them in the past, and understand why peopke like them. I have not tried these 4 strand lines in the rain yet. Short of that they feel close to solid lines.

Offline Rick Huff

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2018, 02:09:52 PM »
Thanks Paul,
You're right, I haven't used solids all that long.  If the 4 strands work better in the rain, they're something I'd like to try.  Was David's "experience" related to rain/wet lines?

Rick

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2018, 02:22:12 PM »
Thanks Paul,
You're right, I haven't used solids all that long.  If the 4 strands work better in the rain, they're something I'd like to try.  Was David's "experience" related to rain/wet lines?


   Yes. I was the handle caddy on those flight, and the less said about it the better, really. It was raining, he tried once with the SS solids, and then had to swap to .018s in the middle of the round.

    If you are currently using solids, I would strongly urge you to switch. And, I found that with a hard-point handle, the performance and feel difference between .014 SS solids and .018 7-strand stranded is not terribly significant, if you have time to retrim for them.  0.014 music wire (via Mike Scott) are slightly better than the SS solids, and have less tendency to stick like they were glued, but still have a very heavy/draggy feel with *any* liquid of any type on them.

    Before someone asks or tells me, I have tried every magic concoction for keeping the lines from sticking that anyone has come up with (unless there is a NEW secret concoction). The only thing that worked, even briefly, was teflon spray, which goes on and leaves a hard white finish. It works really great for about 1/2 a flight, until it wears away, then it goes right back to dragging or locking up. Anything like oil, forget it, including the magic silicone spray that Ed Southwick gave me. Other solid lube (like graphite), also no good, it just falls off.

     Interestingly, *lead* makes a decent high-pressure lubricant, so if you were to tin the lines with solder, then you might have a chance- but then you can buy the soldered stranded lines as being discussed!   I didn't try my Laystrates in the rain (no too many opportunities around here...) but PTG says they work fine.

     Brett


p. s. since I know stunt fliers...

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Non-Stick-Dry-Film-Lubricant/dp/B018FTA5WA

  BTW, Slick 50 or similar DOESN'T work, or at least not when I tried it. Nothing like oil can be left on the lines, they might not stick hard/weld themselves together, but the drag will be unacceptable.

Offline Frank Wadle

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Re: Ukraine lines
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »
I have never tried solids, an I never will.
But back when the F2C guys were still flying solids I know they used Windex on them when it rained. Yes, the stuff you put on your windscreen. And supposedly that helped with the "sticking" issue in the rain.

Regards
Frank Wadle