tuff little plane

[mark eisenhut]

i bought one of brodaks super clown arf's it flys a lot better than me. but i crashed it yesterday trying an outside loop and straight into the ground. it only broke the trailing edge shattered one rib and broke the bellcrank platform lose.now that is two planes Ive crashed trying an outside loop. i don't know why i cant do that loop.
mark eisenhut

[frank carlisle]

give the flaps and elevators a tug when you take it back out to fly. That knock you gave it may have popped the hinges loose.

[Bob Reeves]

Put my ARF Super Clown in the dirt 4 times trying to learn the Mirror Meet pattern. That double vertical eight is a killer   Your are right one tough little airplane..

[mark eisenhut]

frank you are right it did knock the hinges loose
thanks
mark eisenhut

[Dennis Moritz]

If the trailling edge broke in the middle at the fuse joint adding top and bottom thin plywood tabs, epoxied in place, may allow you a power in dork with even less damage.

[john e. holliday]

If you are having trouble with outsides, you might do like I did years ago when I learned how to do outsides.  Start into a wingover and after going over the top of the circle,  about half way down just give it full down elevator.  Alternative way is to go inverted for several laps and pull full down elevator.  Good luck and deep trying.  DOC Holliday

[frank carlisle]

LAZY EIGHTS!! MAN LAZY EIGHTS!!

The safest way to learn inverted flight and outside loops is to fly lots of lazy eights. They can be stretched to inverted flight and at the back end of them is an outside loop waiting to happen.

I learned it all in one weekend. I had an SE-5 profile bi-plane and I crashed it about 18 times in that one weekend. It was covered with silkspan and I took some sheets of covering material, 5 minute epoxy, CA, clear dope and thinner and bashed it back together after every crash.

[Bill Little]

LAZY EIGHTS!! MAN LAZY EIGHTS!!

The safest way to learn inverted flight and outside loops is to fly lots of lazy eights. They can be stretched to inverted flight and at the back end of them is an outside loop waiting to happen.

I learned it all in one weekend. I had an SE-5 profile bi-plane and I crashed it about 18 times in that one weekend. It was covered with silkspan and I took some sheets of covering material, 5 minute epoxy, CA, clear dope and thinner and bashed it back together after every crash.

Hi Frank,

I totally agree!!!!!!!  If you can fly lazy 8s you can fly inverted and do outside loops in absolutely no time!

I did my first successful outside loop many years ago when the "Stunt Grunt" I wrote about told me to do a lazy 8 and then when I came back towards the top of the second (which is an outside loop anyway)"loop" just go up higher and tuck it under, and I continued on doing two more before I came back out over the top!  No they were not close to pretty, but I did them and then it was a piece of cake.  (did I make sense saying that?)

And for the inverted part I just kept stretching out the "bottom" of the lazy eight always think that I was doing a lazy 8 so that I just turned it back over the top after I got to doing a full lap.

I am afraid too many guys start out trying to fly close to a rule book maneuver and don't get high enough or pull out high enough.  It doesn't matter at all how it looks until you have the feel for how to do it.  I made a buddy of mine climb to 45* and give a large amount of up and then more up so that he could do a loop with out pulling out 6" underground.  He just couldn't get over wanting to make it look smooth and have a 45* "top". After he did some "P"s he could do a loop and now does them pretty good.

anyway...........

[frank carlisle]

I am afraid too many guys start out trying to fly close to a rule book maneuver ...........

You are so right!! Guys think everything has to be rule book perfect!! Or that they have to entertain everyone at the circle with their flying. Shoot, most of the time no one watches at all!!
Have you ever noticed that the only people that encourage learning outside loops from a dive are kit manufacturers?

[Bob Reeves]

What I have seen with most beginners trying to do outside loops from upright is they get scared and quit giving it down. In all of the crashes I have seen the model was high enough but the pilot bailed out and quit flying it.

Lazy eights sure help...

[bob branch]

Frank

18 crashes in one weekend trying to learn the lazy 8! Why'd you give me so much greif for my crashes the first year way back when? Just cause I did on what the third lap of the first flight you saw me fly? "Your supposed to bring the plane back in one piece, your supposed to bring back the plane in one piece." You even taught that matra to my wife and she still uses it on me!

bob branch

[frank carlisle]

Bob,
I took it home in one piece both days. True it changed shape a little bit...............

[Steve Helmick]

I'd argue with "full down elevator".  Most planes will turn too tight, slow down. Line tension goes negative, thus "KERPOWIE".     Steve

[mark eisenhut]

full down did the digger thing and i don't think i bailed out ill try the lazy 8 and when i get my nerve back up ill give it a try. i hate crashing. bad words  just seem fly from my mouth lots of f- bombs and the ride home isn't any better nobody knows how to drive and then my finger flys out the window. crashing sucks. and my planes are not any thing to brag about.
thanks for all the help
mark

[Keith Spriggs]

but i crashed it yesterday trying an outside loop and straight into the ground. mark eisenhut

Some forty five years ago I had the same problem learning to fly inverted. took several planes and a lot of time. The only good thing is that once you learn you never forget. I hadn't flown in 35 years and on my second flight I tried a lazy eight, the engine went very rich when it was inverted and I knew I could not ever get it back over. I flew almost the whole tank inverted. At the very end it leaned out and I got it upright

[minnesotamodeler]

full down did the digger thing and i don't think i bailed out ill try the lazy 8 and when i get my nerve back up ill give it a try. i hate crashing. bad words  just seem fly from my mouth lots of f- bombs and the ride home isn't any better nobody knows how to drive and then my finger flys out the window. crashing sucks. and my planes are not any thing to brag about.
thanks for all the help
mark

What happens is, from altitude as the plane comes down it tends to "neutralize" the controls unless you continue moving your handle "down".  Think geometrically: At 45 d., "down" actually puts the handle at "neutral" for level flight. Freeze it there and you make divots.  But the Lazy-eight advice is excellent, in that maneuver you can learn everything but the squares. Safe since you're always turning away from the ground. Don't give up!

--Ray

[Jerry Olson]

You guys are scaring me.  I have the kit version of the Superclown and love it.  I've spent a lot of time, frustration and epoxy trying to learn inside loops with my Ukie.  Now that I am starting to get comfortable with insides I am having a blast looping the Superclown.  The problem is now that I can do insides, I've become  greedy and want to be able to do more.  Outsides seem to be the next hurdle.  I think I should follow the advice here and learn to fly inverted then attempt the outside from an inverted entry.  I think I should start working on it with the Ukie, its more forgiving when dorked into the ground and repairs are usually relatively easy.

Jerry

[john e. holliday]

As stated learn the lazy eights and the you will progress from there.   DOC Holliday

[fred krueger]

Minnesotamodeler (Ray)'s description is perfect!  The technique is to trace the loop with your hand/arm as the plane is flying it.  You must stay with the plane, not ahead of it and not behind it.  If you maintain the down control on the handle and trace the manuever with your arm, the elevator maintains down control throughout the loop. 

I also agree with practicing lazy 8's.

Fred