Trimming 101?

[david beazley]

My flying buddy and I are trying to reinvent the wheel in a vacuum.  We are the only guys in our R/C club flying CL.
I am beginning to get the hang of not hitting the ground every flight and want to learn the pattern.  I know enough to know I don't know anything about how to "trim" a CL plane.  What, if any, resorces, books etc. are available to the novice to get headed in the right direction?  Is it something I should worry about or just keep flying and trying to complete the pattern without hitting the ground.  Is a properly trimmed plane easier to learn on or would I be better off just trying to fly the way the plane is set up now?
Dave

[Bill Little]

HI David,

A properly trimmed model is easier to fly and will probably help keep you "out of the ground."  Proper CG is the best start.  Getting the wings to fly level both upright and inverted is important.  Getting the right amount of wing tip weight and the proper rake to the leadouts will help.

Others can jump in and tell you the best ways of figuring out how to do these trim steps, I am sure.

What plane are you flying?

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Tim Wescott]

Man, someone smarter than me needs to answer this.

Somewhere, floating around on the net, is a trim chart (which I originally saw in Paul Walker's Impact article in Flying Models) that basically steps you through the whole process.  Try Google, or cross your fingers and hope that someone here posts a link.

But the short answer is that yes, trim is important, and yes, you want it trimmed right even at the "don't hit the ground" stage.  There are plenty of people who advocate using a flapless stunter while you're at this stage, and having started with a flapped plane then moved to flapless, I have to agree.  Trimming is easier, as is building and repairing.  A few dedicated folks have taken flapless stunters quite high in competition, even into the ranks of Expert, but you probably want to start using a flapped plane before then.

[Brett Buck]

My flying buddy and I are trying to reinvent the wheel in a vacuum.  We are the only guys in our R/C club flying CL.
I am beginning to get the hang of not hitting the ground every flight and want to learn the pattern.  I know enough to know I don't know anything about how to "trim" a CL plane.  What, if any, resorces, books etc. are available to the novice to get headed in the right direction?  Is it something I should worry about or just keep flying and trying to complete the pattern without hitting the ground.  Is a properly trimmed plane easier to learn on or would I be better off just trying to fly the way the plane is set up now?
Dave

   This was my best shot at it: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7798.0  but there is a lot of it sprinkled around, mostly on SSW.

    One of the biggest problems you have as a beginner more or less by yourselves it that to trim well, you need to be able to evaluate what you see, and separate out whatever piloting problems you have from trim issues, and be able to see it while in a semi-panic.  You profile is blank as to location but it would help you immensely to find someone to assist, almost regardless of how far you have to go. You need to find an experienced competition pilot. That can cut out a lot of the initial trial-and-error. In any case trimming it learned by doing, just like flying.

    I also recommend simplifying your problem by flying a simple, elevator-only airplane with known good performance and a good database of information - a Flite Streak, Skyray 35, Medic, Doctor, etc. That will cut down on your options on trimming since they are so simple, and also has the beneficial feature of being easy to build and repair. This will keep you out of the mode that a lot of beginners get into - go to the field, timidly put in a flight or two, trying to stay out of everyone's way, then going home the first time something goes wrong. You need reps, if you go to the field, maximize the use of your time by putting airplanes in the air. If you break it, fix it right then, and I have long advocated that you build multiple identical airplanes and if you crash, just get another one right then, that day, and keep going.

     Brett

[Derek Barry]

March-April Stunt News page 42.


Shameless plug.

Derek

[david beazley]

OBTW I'm in central VA, near Charlottesville.

[Howard Rush]

You might mosey over to the Tidewater and look up Steve Fitton.

[Garf]

Man, someone smarter than me needs to answer this.

Somewhere, floating around on the net, is a trim chart (which I originally saw in Paul Walker's Impact article in Flying Models) that basically steps you through the whole process.  Try Google, or cross your fingers and hope that someone here posts a link.

This one?

[david beazley]

My stable consists of a hand full of half a's, a Sig Akromaster, a Ringmaster and a Sig Banshee.  The Akro has been patched too many times to count, the Ringmaster has been thumped a few times and the Banshee is still as it came off the bench.  I realized that when I am afraid to crash, I tend to do more of it.  I decided to fly the Akro like I stole it, and since then I seem to be much more comfortable flying.  The Banshee flys best of the lot but I'm askeerd to hurt it!  It has a Fox .35 with a hemi head, stuffer backplate and the burp fix in the transfer port.  It is breaking in nicely.  I have a Brodak P-51B on the bench with a Brodak .40 on it.  The Akro has an old Enya .15, the ringmaster an LA.25.

[Bill Little]

[quote author=Bill Little link=topic=27095.msg261725#msg261725 date=

What plane are you flying?

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

My stable consists of a hand full of half a's, a Sig Akromaster, a Ringmaster and a Sig Banshee.  The Akro has been patched too many times to count, the Ringmaster has been thumped a few times and the Banshee is still as it came off the bench.  I realized that when I am afraid to crash, I tend to do more of it.  I decided to fly the Akro like I stole it, and since then I seem to be much more comfortable flying.  The Banshee flys best of the lot but I'm askeerd to hurt it!  It has a Fox .35 with a hemi head, stuffer backplate and the burp fix in the transfer port.  It is breaking in nicely.  I have a Brodak P-51B on the bench with a Brodak .40 on it.  The Akro has an old Enya .15, the ringmaster an LA.25.

HI David,

You have a nice stable to work with there.  The Ringmaster is a good size, simple, profile to learn stunts on.  And probably the easiest to get trimmed well.

Best wishes!
Bill

[peabody]

Join PAMPA and look for nearby fliers that are listed on the web site or in the booklet.....

[Steve Fitton]

OBTW I'm in central VA, near Charlottesville.

Where in relation to Charlottesville?  Down route 29 from c'ville is John Rakes, about an hour south of there.  I'm about 2 hours 20 minutes from Charlottesville, but there are two guys that fly in Richmond that are still active and thats maybe an hour from cville (they fly on the west end of Richmond).  If you are on the NE side of Charlottesville, you may not be too far from the Northern VA guys as well.

[Tim Wescott]

My stable consists of a hand full of half a's, a Sig Akromaster, a Ringmaster and a Sig Banshee.  The Akro has been patched too many times to count, the Ringmaster has been thumped a few times and the Banshee is still as it came off the bench.  I realized that when I am afraid to crash, I tend to do more of it.  I decided to fly the Akro like I stole it, and since then I seem to be much more comfortable flying.  The Banshee flys best of the lot but I'm askeerd to hurt it!  It has a Fox .35 with a hemi head, stuffer backplate and the burp fix in the transfer port.  It is breaking in nicely.  I have a Brodak P-51B on the bench with a Brodak .40 on it.  The Akro has an old Enya .15, the ringmaster an LA.25.

Hang up everything except for the Ringmaster, build yourself a couple of Sig Skyrays (or buy a couple of ARF Flight Streaks), start flying per Brett's "bring spares and don't stop flying" dictum, and when you aren't crashing much any more, get the fancy planes down from the wall and go fly them.

On Skyrays:  Buy one kit, and spare wood.  Build lots-o-planes.

On Flight Streaks:  The word that I heard on these is that the center of gravity that's indicated in the ARF plans is way far back, and makes the plane nearly unflyable.  Thanks to Dan Rutherford, the world knows that the right location for the CG on a Flight Streak is 1-5/8 inches back from the leading edge.

[Steve Helmick]

1) A little bit of right thrust (for CCW flying) helps the lines get tight after they go slack.
2) Over control is bad. Slow controls help. A good, light handle, "straight up" and with minimal "overhang" is critical.
3) Nervousness and outright Panic are bad. Don't learn bad habits. A good coach helps.
4) "Dry Flying" at home (pull the curtains down) will help a lot. Especially the inverted, if you don't do it yet. If you don't currently fly inverted, learn to do it with the handle vertically. Try to keep the handle vertical when flying upright also. It will help your buddy/observer/coach tell you if your handle is correctly adjusted or not.
5) Learn to shuffle backwards when flying in calm conditions is important, for avoiding wake turbulence. That's real hazardous stuff!
6) Learn to lean or step toward the plane at the bottom of the V8 and Hourglass to slow the plane and reduce the  
line tension in other critical places....it's where I'm at right now. It do help!
7) Trimming is really important. Never stop experimenting. What is included in trimming? Everything; handle, lines,  
LO  position, prop, venturi size, prop, fuel, prop, glowplug, prop, CG, fuel tank, fuel filter, prop, wheels, wheel  
location, prop....
8/) If your engine isn't running right, fly it out in level flight. If you crash the plane, it's hard to figure out why the engine wasn't running right, and you really need to figure that stuff out.      
9) Confidence. It comes from practise and staying calm.  
  Steve

[david beazley]

Thanks for all the replies, and I thought C/L was on the trailing edge of technology!  Rock on a string my a**! 
I got some PM's from Big Bear and I'm gonna try to hook up with some of the folks he suggested.  I was out today at our field and had a couple good (for me) flights, meaning I wasn't askeerd to death and didn't plant anything.  I have been trying to learn to relax, and make my maneuvers smoother.  Im getting the hang of inverted, albeit high up and like coming out of a wing over inverted.  I can see that it's all about stick, I mean handle time.