Tom Dixon - Fuel Price Increase Announcement

[Jim Catevenis]

Tom Dixon - Fuel Price Increase Announcement

Tom Dixon contacted Sig regarding a fuel purchase and per Sig, they have raised the wholesale prices of the fuel approximately 50%.

Tom is currently checking several other fuel sources equal to Sig’s fuel and so far, the best estimate is going to be $25.00 to $35.00 per gallon of 10% nitro this year.

Tom is still waiting on information from some fuel manufacturers but he wanted to give the control line community a heads up on what is most likely a substantial increase in fuel prices in the coming year. Or as Tom told me, reduce ‘sticker shock’!

[Gerald Arana]

Looks like it is time to go 'Lectricky! 

Jerry

[Jim Carter]

  Wow!  Although I can understand and accept the market forces .... I think I'm going back to rubber power!  Anybody have any ideas of how many loops would be required for a 7 minute flight with a 42" wingspan Ringmaster??    

[Jim Svitko]

Has the cost of nitro gone up that much to justify these fuel prices?

[Fredvon4]

YES!!  It has

only ONE source...China....THANK YOU Obama EPA...look up facts if you think I am wacked.....

Remember Anti Freeze at $25 per gallon a decade of so back--- after a fire in Japan wiped out the only real world wide source....?   again thank you Washington, Oregon, California, and USA EPA...we used to make a LOT of things in this country that are now only manufactured off shore...

Single source supplies are not good...current events are important... just today the current administration is hashing out, right now, new trade agreements...some stuff will get cheaper and some stuff will get more expensive

[Randy Cuberly]

YES!!  It has

only ONE source...China....THANK YOU Obama EPA...look up facts if you think I am wacked.....

Remember Anti Freeze at $25 per gallon a decade of so back--- after a fire in Japan wiped out the only real world wide source....?   again than you Washington, Oregon, California, and USA EPA...we used to make a LOT of things in this country that are now only manufactured off shore...

Single source supplies are not good...current events are important... just today the current administration is hashing out, right now, new trade agreements...some stuff will get cheaper and some stuff will get more expensive

From what I hear lately, if the Socialist New Green Deal (look it up) happens you can add Airplanes, Automobiles, and Cows to that list!!!! 

Go Figure!!!      Actually...maybe not so funny?

Randy Cuberly

[Jim Svitko]

New Green Deal means that if this ever becomes law, those running the show, or well connected with the politicians, become rich.  Isn't that the way it usually goes?

My nitro supplier raised his price from $25 a gallon to $40 a gallon.  Who knows how long it will stay at $40.  Next time, it might be $100.  I can still get methanol from him for $4 a gallon.

The most expensive component for me is still the oil.  Last time I bought oil from Sig, it was $44 a gallon, either Klotz or castor.  Maybe Sig raised the price of oil as well, I have not looked at the website for several months.

If we want to continue this hobby, maybe going electric is in the future for us.  But, there could be problems there as well.  Where do we get the lithium for batteries?  Most likely an unfriendly country?

[Howard Rush]

You need to stop burning communist nitro and get the energy for your stunters from American coal, like I do. 

Besides, Sig fuel makes your airplane smell like a girl.




(Edited to point out that Sig fuel makes your airplane smell like a girl.)

[CircuitFlyer]

Ya but, neodymium is mined primarily in China

[Mike Haverly]

Good grief, does everything have to be politicized?  Look around, everything costs more.  I just went to the hobby shop and bought two gallons of Powermaster 10/22 and was happy to get it at $30.99 per gallon.  Get over it, most of you guys are still living in '50s and 60's long before you could blame any politicians for you problems.  I see people leave Starbucks with a $7.00 cup of coffee, that doesn't make sense to me but it is their money.  Go buy a bottle of water, not cheap either. 

Bottom line is ya gotta pay to play.

[Jim Carter]

YES!!  It has

only ONE source...China....THANK YOU Obama EPA...look up facts if you think I am wacked.....

What you've written has some truth but I think you're hanging the blame on the wrong spot.  The government doesn't own the manufacturers!  These companies could still be producing but they don't want to pay for the appropriate environmental controls (protecting the US environment), pay higher wages (living wages) for their employees, upgrade needed manufacturing processes and then set affordable prices to us, the public!  Nah, they'd rather shut down, putting folks out of work or move production overseas using the same crappy processing, paying lower wages, shipping back to the US and charging higher prices with higher profit margins that could/would have been the same had they stayed here (USA) with the manufacturing in the first place!!  Prime example the steel and auto companies .... Detroit was booming and produces literally hundreds of millions of jobs both directly and indirectly related to the steel and auto industry.  Hundreds of thousands of folks worked and retired from those jobs and are now living semi-comfortably as many who read this can attest.  BUT when they saw the opportunity to increase their profit line, cut costs, abandon the rotten rusting hulks of buildings they left behind leaving the governments (local and federal) to clean up and thus move production off shore pay lower salaries, and in the end increase prices and corporate profit margins .....  !!  I mean, back in the day, I bought a brand new Ford F-150  for $4500 .... now on fixed income (retired) there's not a snowballs chance in  ---- I can afford $45,000!!!  To me. the blame belongs on the 1% and 2%ers who figured out how to snowball the American public into believing it was the governments fault!!

[john e. holliday]

Don't go look at used cars.  Hope the man keeps his promise of bringing jobs back to the USA.   Yes, I know promises can be broken,   they've been broken ever since I can remember.

[Wayne Collier]

Whatever caused it, we seem to be living in a post capitalistic, greed dominated, economy where stock prices seem to be emphasized over the well being of the customer or employee.

I fully believe that companies should be profitable and that there is a responsibility to the investor but I am saddened at how often the true needs of workers and consumers are overshadowed by efforts to maximize return on investment. It's like some have forgotten that if you don't care for the goose there will be no more golden eggs.

[peabody]

The NHRA xoomers are lamenting that Nitro has gone up about 25% this season.
But they are limited to single source.

[Chuck_Smith]

YES!!  It has

only ONE source...China....THANK YOU Obama EPA...look up facts if you think I am wacked.....

Remember Anti Freeze at $25 per gallon a decade of so back--- after a fire in Japan wiped out the only real world wide source....?   again thank you Washington, Oregon, California, and USA EPA...we used to make a LOT of things in this country that are now only manufactured off shore...

Single source supplies are not good...current events are important... just today the current administration is hashing out, right now, new trade agreements...some stuff will get cheaper and some stuff will get more expensive

Fred, this is uniformed and wrong. The price of nitro skyrocketed mostly because of the tariffs imposed by our current president.

[RC Storick]

The cost of our "HOBBY" is cheap compared to any of the others. Ask a golfer how much it cost for a round or how much it costs to run a motorcycle,  airplane, drag car or any one of a hundred different activities. I would say our activity is about a tenth of any other. I would be willing to bet it costs more to knit, sew and needlepoint than build and fly a model airplane.

So in the grand scheme of things it "JUST DON'T MATTER" Just don't take away the Farting cows! This is the state of education.

Are there more cows than people? Do people fart too? We are next.

[Dan McEntee]

    Well, I posted this last week and no one seemed to notice;

  https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/have-you-priced-nitro-lately/

    China has their own version of an EPA also and they have been talking lessons from ours! There is a lot more to the story than we all see. What some see as proof in "science" can be flawed also. I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's where "science" was telling us that by the year 2000, we were going to be COMPLETELY out of oil! We are almost 20 years past that and look where we are with oil production. There must still be dinosaurs croaking and rotting somewhere to still be making "fossil fuels!"  Time will tell!
   
     Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[Dennis Toth]

Maybe it's time to consider using FAI fuel type mix (maybe a little more oil, 23-25% rather than 20%). Using the high rpm/low pitch setup FAI fuel will likely work just fine. In the days of 4-2-4 you needed the nitro to give the quick switch. With Hrpm/Lp it pretty much stays constant (maybe just a little kick going uphill but not much). Might need to go to the high compression head on the Fox 35's but most others have enough compression to run fine. It works for FAI speed just fine.

Another alternative is to use another nitro compound like nitropropane just to easy starting. I might be possible to use just E85 pump gasoline (which is 85% ethanol similar to methanol but a little tigher needle setting range) and oil with the Hrpm/Lp.

Starting with a full 1.5Vs rather than the 1.2V of the NiCad ignitor would also help with the no nitro fuels.

Best,   DennisT

[Gerald Arana]

Besides, Sig fuel makes your airplane smell like a girl.




(Edited to point out that Sig fuel makes your airplane smell like a girl.)

Mmmm,    Me like! 

Jerry

[Jim Kraft]

That is why I fly mostly old ignition engines. it takes half as much, cost about $12.00 a gallon if I use stove fuel, and no shipping because it is all available locally. I have five old time stunters on ignition, and two old free fights with a radio. I converted my OS 60 FS open rocker to spark, but have not put It in a plane yet. It runs great on the test stand though.

[Steve Hines]

Rich's brew, will make it any way you want it. No better fuel

[Mike Griffin]

It is not only fuel guys, there are things going on in the balsa market that are going to make you wince in the near future. 

Mike

[Jim Carter]

Whatever caused it, we seem to be living in a post capitalistic, greed dominated, economy where stock prices seem to be emphasized over the well being of the customer or employee.

So true!!  I just found out that there will be some upcoming congressional hearing into the outrageous cost increases of various medicines being produced and sold here in the USA.  They're supposed to be questioning the CEO's of a number of major pharmaceutical companies.  An extract from the Congressional Oversight Committee states: "Approximately 94% of widely-used brand-name drugs on the market between 2005 and 2017 more than doubled in price during that time, and the average price increase in 2017 was 8.4%—four times the rate of inflation—according to an analysis conducted by AARP.  A recent Associated Press analysis found that more than 4,400 brand-name drugs increased in price in the first seven months of 2018 alone, compared to 46 price decreases."  I'm sorry folks but although we're hurting with our hobby prices, it seems like we're hurting across the board and it points the finger or shame directly at the CEO's and Boards of Directors whose salaries alone seem to absorb 90% of the price increases leaving 10% for production improvements.  I may be wrong but I don't think so. 

[Fredvon4]

Jim Carter

You would be typical in you opinion becaus like most USA citizens you have no clue about supply and demand OR how big the Chemical market is relative to our puny hobby uses

Train Tanker cars hold 6800 gallons and hundreds of them with Nitro Methane traverse the rail ways of almost all industrial countries these days...literally Millions of gallons of the chemical

During the 8 years of Obama and long before him- in the 70s~80s our politicians and UN elected butt heads (OSHA~EPA~Dot~FCC~HUD  et al) made REGULATIONS that crippled USA manufactures...Tariffs, Raw materiel sources, Pollution, Endangered species, Super Fund mandates

Thirty or forty commodities you never heard about got shut... no way to make any profit at the global price

I am familiar with Weirton Steel in 1884~1987
Japan could import Michigan raw ore to their big furnaces in Japan, they export back to USA at 50$ per ton... Pittsburgh, US, and Weirton Steel plants needed $70 per ton to sty open...GM, Ford, Chrysler, and all the Major construction companies buy the cheaper product.....

Back to Nitro Methane...my research suggest Dow Chemical in Delaware used to produce couple million gallons of Nitro per year for USA distribution and export to 13 different industrial countries

*It is a polar liquid commonly used as a solvent in a variety of industrial applications such as in extractions, as a reaction medium, and as a cleaning solvent. As an intermediate in organic synthesis, it is used widely in the manufacture of pharmaceuticals, pesticides, explosives, fibers, and coatings.

I am assuming cuz I have no knowledge..If DOW can not make a profit on a NEEDED commodity.... I tend to believe it is only two causes....China is selling a steep discount do to government subsidies.(DUMPING)..or USA rules are TOO strict.....

And sorry all you namby pamby folks who never want to hear POLITICAL REALITY...but how you think and vote does matter.... the New Green Deal will KILL America as we know it...simple as that

little things like this are indicative on many many other industries and drivers of our economy

[Jim Carter]

Hey Fred!  Well to avoid "hogging" the thread, you, my friend, with your example, have just cited my whole argument!!  You wrote:

"I am familiar with Weirton Steel in 1884~1987
Japan could import Michigan raw ore to their big furnaces in Japan, they export back to USA at 50$ per ton... Pittsburgh, US, and Weirton Steel plants needed $70 per ton to sty open...GM, Ford, Chrysler, and all the Major construction companies buy the cheaper product....."

I don't care who one is in this country, IF the CEO's bought US product, made US Product with it and sold at US prices .... how the heck are you or anyone else looking to buy an item going to buy anything else but US made??  Sounds silly but if all Walmart and Amazon can get is stuff made off shore, guess what they're going to stock??  If our politicians can't add competitive, balancing trade fees to any products coming off the boats before they hit the shelves thus ensuring an even price playing field well, guess who gets the shaft?  BUT if they, the CEO's buy cheap materials, then produce cheap products and inflate the prices then put US workers out of work to reduce costs even more.  Then over the long term how the heck do the unemployed and underemployed US workers fare trying to buy anything??  Whether you beleive it or not, you just pointed the finger where it belongs  big corporate CEO's who don't give a hoot about the long term stability and growth of the American economy.

Look, you and I both know as I believe we're about the same age, it doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to teach a person to operate a lathe, computerized mill, lathes, road graders, welders, etcetera but these BIG Corporate CEO's, Boards of Directors and their industries, just to line their pockets and the pockets of the lobbyists, would rather bring cheap H-1B labor into the country rather than support and encourage US industrial focused high schools and trade schools anymore.  Not everyone is college material when they come out of high school, (I know, as I'm a living example, I needed/wanted a job).
The students of these schools would become the labor force, entrepreneurs, and future market buyers for the products made in the US.

Finally, my friend, maybe we should abandon this thread so as to keep it hobby oriented for the fuel  .  It would be great if the moderator could allow this discussion on a thread of it's own, eh! This is good stuff!! 

[Fredvon4]

Jim...I agree.....too deep for a hobby forum... but I still contend.....oh well.... never mind, like liberals and conservatives...never can change a strongly held belief no matter the facts...including mine

and just to tick off, some...Trump 2020 is a way better choice than Bernie

[Mike Griffin]

Tom Dixon - Fuel Price Increase Announcement

Tom Dixon contacted Sig regarding a fuel purchase and per Sig, they have raised the wholesale prices of the fuel approximately 50%.

Tom is currently checking several other fuel sources equal to Sig’s fuel and so far, the best estimate is going to be $25.00 to $35.00 per gallon of 10% nitro this year.

Tom is still waiting on information from some fuel manufacturers but he wanted to give the control line community a heads up on what is most likely a substantial increase in fuel prices in the coming year. Or as Tom told me, reduce ‘sticker shock’!

Jim to return to the original intent of your initial post, Thank you for the heads up and letting us know.

Mike

[Reptoid]

Rich's brew, will make it any way you want it. No better fuel

What he said.

Order direct or get your local dealer to stock it.

[Mark Mc]

** SIGH **

I was in Mesa last week to take care of some family business.  On an afternoon when I had an hour free, I went to a hobby shop about a half mile away.  They had two gallons of YS-Saito 20/20 for 27.00 a gallon.  Too bad I couldn't take it on the plane with me coming home...

Mark

[Tom Vieira]

Hey Fred!  Well to avoid "hogging" the thread, you, my friend, with your example, have just cited my whole argument!!  You wrote:

"I am familiar with Weirton Steel in 1884~1987
Japan could import Michigan raw ore to their big furnaces in Japan, they export back to USA at 50$ per ton... Pittsburgh, US, and Weirton Steel plants needed $70 per ton to sty open...GM, Ford, Chrysler, and all the Major construction companies buy the cheaper product....."

I don't care who one is in this country, IF the CEO's bought US product, made US Product with it and sold at US prices .... how the heck are you or anyone else looking to buy an item going to buy anything else but US made??  Sounds silly but if all Walmart and Amazon can get is stuff made off shore, guess what they're going to stock??  If our politicians can't add competitive, balancing trade fees to any products coming off the boats before they hit the shelves thus ensuring an even price playing field well, guess who gets the shaft?  BUT if they, the CEO's buy cheap materials, then produce cheap products and inflate the prices then put US workers out of work to reduce costs even more.  Then over the long term how the heck do the unemployed and underemployed US workers fare trying to buy anything??  Whether you beleive it or not, you just pointed the finger where it belongs  big corporate CEO's who don't give a hoot about the long term stability and growth of the American economy.

Look, you and I both know as I believe we're about the same age, it doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to teach a person to operate a lathe, computerized mill, lathes, road graders, welders, etcetera but these BIG Corporate CEO's, Boards of Directors and their industries, just to line their pockets and the pockets of the lobbyists, would rather bring cheap H-1B labor into the country rather than support and encourage US industrial focused high schools and trade schools anymore.  Not everyone is college material when they come out of high school, (I know, as I'm a living example, I needed/wanted a job).
The students of these schools would become the labor force, entrepreneurs, and future market buyers for the products made in the US.

Finally, my friend, maybe we should abandon this thread so as to keep it hobby oriented for the fuel  .  It would be great if the moderator could allow this discussion on a thread of it's own, eh! This is good stuff!! 

I train people on programming/operation/maintenance/software repair/diagnostics CNC cylindrical and tool grinders.

you're right, it's not rocket science, but you would be absolutely SHOCKED at the amount of people out there who just can't follow simple instructions just to turn a machine on and make size corrections.  let alone look at SPC charts to identify trends in production, and doing the math to optimize a process.  No, it's not rocket science, but it is a bit of an art form.

And, no, it's not a generational thing either.  I've worked with "kids" in their 20's all the way up to "old hands" getting ready to retire in a couple years.  It's a matter of wanting to further your skill sets and actually use your head.  It's a culture thing, not a generation thing, and it's spread around fairly evenly....

[mike londke]

I just left the speed shop with 2 gallons of Torco Nitro. $56 each. Same price as last year.

[Glen Wearden]

Kind of reminds me of "Atlas Shrugged", by Ayn Rand.
Glen