Today for the first time I experienced stunt nirvana

[Dwayne]

I've been a sport flyer for years, two years ago I decided to learn the OTS pattern and compete for the first time with a LA .25 Ringmaster and this year with a Fox 35 Barnstormer. Both planes fly and run great but until today I never experienced "the perfect combo" I've read about in the magazines. I finally decided to learn the F2B pattern and built a Sarpolus Challenger (uses a Sig Super Chipmunk wing) ,  a LA 46 with one extra head gasket on a Randy Smith 40 pipe set at 17". Plastic tank non uniflow on pressure, 7mm venturi Brodak 3.5mm nva, stock (balanced and sanded) Zinger 12x4 launching at around 1200 rpm.  I've read about the perfect balance, tip weight, CG, line rake/tension  and engine run but until today I've never experienced it. This engine starts so easy and where ever I set the needle, it stays. I can fly the plane anywhere and it goes where I point it and the rpm stays the same all the time (perfect). It has slightly more tension level as it does over head, about perfect again . My pattern still looks like crap but until today I've never experienced Nirvana!! 

[Tim Wescott]

It is sweet when it all works, isn't it?

[Howard Rush]

Sprinkle some vortex generators on that and you're ready for Teddy.

[Steve Helmick]

I noticed that in Howard's post, the word "generators" was a "hot link" and figured he had a website for "JCT Sales". No such luck. A site called "everymansales.com" pops up, and it's about impossible to get rid of the string of popups. DON'T DO THAT!

Later, I "reremembered" that this sort of crap happened before, and Sparky had to fix it. "Oh, Sparky...."   Steve


Edit: Oops, f'got to ask where DD tapped into the pipe for "muffler" pressure, and what made 'im do that? I've run muffler pressure, and I've run pipes, but haven't run pipe pressure nor seen the need, so I'm curious. 

[Dwayne]

Sprinkle some vortex generators on that and you're ready for Teddy.

Actualy I wouldn't mind some more info on these. How big, how and where to mount them.

Thanks

[Dwayne]

It is sweet when it all works, isn't it?

Yeeessss Sir! 

[PJ Rowland]

Dwayne, Simple search for Vortex Generators Installation - there are a bunch of threads.

[ray copeland]

Nice build Dwayne, love it!!

[Dwayne]

Edit: Oops, f'got to ask where DD tapped into the pipe for "muffler" pressure, and what made 'im do that? I've run muffler pressure, and I've run pipes, but haven't run pipe pressure nor seen the need, so I'm curious.  

Hi Steve, I tapped into the header, I think I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do this due to excessive heat but on a profile I don't think that's an issue. I have a dozen flights on it and so far so good.

[john e. holliday]

Hey, the plane looks great and if it is  working to your satisfaction don't change anything.   

[Doug Moon]

I noticed that in Howard's post, the word "generators" was a "hot link" and figured he had a website for "JCT Sales". No such luck. A site called "everymansales.com" pops up, and it's about impossible to get rid of the string of popups. DON'T DO THAT!

Later, I "reremembered" that this sort of crap happened before, and Sparky had to fix it. "Oh, Sparky...."   Steve


Edit: Oops, f'got to ask where DD tapped into the pipe for "muffler" pressure, and what made 'im do that? I've run muffler pressure, and I've run pipes, but haven't run pipe pressure nor seen the need, so I'm curious. 

I dont know why the site is all of a sudden showing links on certain words but DONT click on any of them.  I had the same response on a nother one somewhere else

[Bob Reeves]

May not be the site, may be some new malware has hijacked your browser.

[Doug Moon]

I have always used pipe pressure.  I drill a small hole in the diverging cone about 2/3 way out.  I insert a piece of copper tubing that hangs in the pipe and faces the baffle at about 45 degrees. The part that is sticking out of the pipe is laying down along the side. Its almost a Z bend.  I use 5 minute epoxy mixed with milled fiber glass to seal it up. Yes 5 minute. If you have proper cooling you shouldn't have an issue.  I have one that lasted 8 years but a crash knocked it out.  I use an enclosed pipe tunnel and it cools enough to not have any issues,,,knocking on wood.  I run the pressure line to a vent inside the tank that faces the inside front of the tank.  It uncovers right after take off and all is good.

But if your header is exposed topping like DD did is a good option! Nice and simple.  I like it!

[Doug Moon]

May not be the site, may be some new malware has hijacked your browser.

I think you are right,,,,  That word doesnt show as a link here at work.  It does at home.

And I have noticed some PC fix adds on my google page.  It is usually just blank with the google search line.  Then all of a sudden yesterday it was showing all these PC fix ads on it.....  great....

[Bob Reeves]

Download and run the free version of Malwarebytes, let it update the signatures when it first runs then do a full scan. It may take several hours but if you have anything like I think you have it will find it.

http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/lp4/?gclid=CO3npcGR2rgCFSgV7AodCGYA_g

[Brett Buck]

Hey, the plane looks great and if it is  working to your satisfaction don't change anything.   

    I agree, don't fix it if it ain't broke. Do keep an eye on the tubing and see if it starts breaking down or melts. RC guys used to put the pressure tap in the header flange, and hook it up with silicone tubing, and that gets a lot hotter (and gives you more threads). I think the static pressure is about the same anywhere in the pipe.

    I put my tap where Randy used to put them and roughly where Doug describes. I haven't used pressure for a while. The RO-Jett is not nearly as prone to going rich/lean with ram pressure, and if it gets windy I have a trick. I can still hook it up if necessary, but the trick works for the ram pressure issue.

      Brett

[Tim Wescott]

I think you are right,,,,  That word doesnt show as a link here at work.  It does at home.

And I have noticed some PC fix adds on my google page.  It is usually just blank with the google search line.  Then all of a sudden yesterday it was showing all these PC fix ads on it.....  great....

Y'know, one of these days the malware authors are going to start targeting Linux, and all the sneering techno-weenies who use it (me included) will have to start acting like you hangdog Windows users.

[Doug Moon]

..... but the trick works for the ram pressure issue.

      Brett

and the trick is.........??

not trying to derail the thread just curious as to what you do for that issue.

[Howard Rush]

Hey, the plane looks great and if it is  working to your satisfaction don't change anything.   

On the other hand, this is a surefire way not to improve it.

[Brett Buck]

and the trick is.........??

not trying to derail the thread just curious as to what you do for that issue.

  I can't give away all my secrets!

   OK, I will. The airplane is set up with three tubes sticking out. The original idea was to have the usual tank vent and the overflow. The third tube was hooked to the pipe pressure tap internally and came out right below the tank vent. The idea was that I could switch from pressure to no pressure without taking the airplane apart with a little loop of tube connecting the pressure to the vent. Remove it, no pressure, put the loop on, pressure. When it was "no pressure", I plugged the pressure tube to keep the oil from going all over the airplane. This tube just goes through the fuse side, and then terminates, with just enough sticking out to hook up the pressure internally.

    The only time I was ever using pressure was when it got windy to remove the ram air effect. But of course you have to screw the needle in a bunch, too, and it's hardly something you would want to do in the circle ready for an official flight. It doesn't need pressure, it just needs to not have ram air. For a while I had a gadget that looked like a plug for the tank vent, but had a small brass fitting that had the vent holes, cross-drilled so it was unaffected by ram air pressure. That worked OK, but then I thought about Sergei Belko's bottom-intake engine that sucks air from way back inside the fuselage. The front end of the fuselage acts like a huge plenum and greatly reduces the variation of the airflow into the carb.

     So, I figured that I could do the same thing with the tank vent. I disconnected the pressure line from the pipe and plugged it at the pipe end. Now if I want to get rid of the ram pressure, I use the same loop of tubing I was using before, and suck the tank vent air from inside the fuselage - where it is effectively isolated from most of the ram air effect. It probably still varies some but it runs as if it was isolated. The beauty of this is that unlike pipe pressure, it doesn't affect the needle at all, and you can change it on the fly, even after you have started the engine on an official flight. It's a little thing but it does seem to work and it solves the issue with minimum fuss.

     Brett

[Brett Buck]

On the other hand, this is a surefire way not to improve it.

   If this is the first decent engine runs ever achieved, going off trying to improve it further doesn't seem like a good plan at this point.

   Brett

[Randy Cuberly]

I dont know why the site is all of a sudden showing links on certain words but DONT click on any of them.  I had the same response on a nother one somewhere else

 I dont thnk it's Malware on the individual computers.  I have the same problem mostly on this forum, and I've run thorough checks for malware all the time.
My impression is that it's imbedded in the forum software somehow.
Lots of popups for various advertisements.  No stunt stuff though...

When they come up it interferes with everything else...even trying to type a post.

Randy Cuberly

[Doug Moon]

  I can't give away all my secrets!

   OK, I will. The airplane is set up with three tubes sticking out. The original idea was to have the usual tank vent and the overflow. The third tube was hooked to the pipe pressure tap internally and came out right below the tank vent. The idea was that I could switch from pressure to no pressure without taking the airplane apart with a little loop of tube connecting the pressure to the vent. Remove it, no pressure, put the loop on, pressure. When it was "no pressure", I plugged the pressure tube to keep the oil from going all over the airplane. This tube just goes through the fuse side, and then terminates, with just enough sticking out to hook up the pressure internally.

    The only time I was ever using pressure was when it got windy to remove the ram air effect. But of course you have to screw the needle in a bunch, too, and it's hardly something you would want to do in the circle ready for an official flight. It doesn't need pressure, it just needs to not have ram air. For a while I had a gadget that looked like a plug for the tank vent, but had a small brass fitting that had the vent holes, cross-drilled so it was unaffected by ram air pressure. That worked OK, but then I thought about Sergei Belko's bottom-intake engine that sucks air from way back inside the fuselage. The front end of the fuselage acts like a huge plenum and greatly reduces the variation of the airflow into the carb.

     So, I figured that I could do the same thing with the tank vent. I disconnected the pressure line from the pipe and plugged it at the pipe end. Now if I want to get rid of the ram pressure, I use the same loop of tubing I was using before, and suck the tank vent air from inside the fuselage - where it is effectively isolated from most of the ram air effect. It probably still varies some but it runs as if it was isolated. The beauty of this is that unlike pipe pressure, it doesn't affect the needle at all, and you can change it on the fly, even after you have started the engine on an official flight. It's a little thing but it does seem to work and it solves the issue with minimum fuss.

     Brett

Now that is cool!!  I run pressure but if I ever get to where I am not I will certainly remember this little GIGANTIC jewel of info!

Thanks!!

[Steve Helmick]

Download and run the free version of Malwarebytes, let it update the signatures when it first runs then do a full scan. It may take several hours but if you have anything like I think you have it will find it.

http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/lp4/?gclid=CO3npcGR2rgCFSgV7AodCGYA_g

FWIW, I downloaded the malwarebytes per Bob's recommendation, did the updates, and ran it. It took over 3 hours, got rid of a bunch of stuff, but I'm still getting bombarded by http://jvl.libpack.net, telling me to download "FLV M Player". I was just reading the NATS topic and clicked from p.11 to p.12 and they sent me a new page of crap. I don't think I need a new media player every other day, and I just updated the one from Adobe, FlashPlayer, I think. Arrrrrghhhh!  Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

FWIW, I downloaded the malwarebytes per Bob's recommendation, did the updates, and ran it. It took over 3 hours, got rid of a bunch of stuff, but I'm still getting bombarded by http://jvl.libpack.net, telling me to download "FLV M Player". I was just reading the NATS topic and clicked from p.11 to p.12 and they sent me a new page of crap. I don't think I need a new media player every other day, and I just updated the one from Adobe, FlashPlayer, I think. Arrrrrghhhh!  Steve

Yeah most of my trouble came with the latest version of Adobe Flash Player.  I contacted Adobe and they said they got a lot of complaints after the upgrade.  They said it wasn't the fault of Flash player directly just that as a better tool it lets the rats in the door easier.
They said they were working on a security fix but it would probably have to come from another company like McAfee etc.

This is only info I'm passing along and I'm not anything like an expert on this stuff...more like an ignorant sot.  I have tried a bunch of security programs and nothing seems to help.

The RATS are just getting bigger and faster...lots of money in all that advertising.

What I wouldn't give for 5 minutes alone in a small room with the baxtxxd that thought all this stuff up!! 

Randy Cuberly

[Howard Rush]

  If this is the first decent engine runs ever achieved, going off trying to improve it further doesn't seem like a good plan at this point.

John referred to the airplane.  I have observed the better fliers continually fiddling with their airplanes' trim to improve the planes and to adjust to conditions.  I even moved the leadouts back on my own airplane this evening.  I don't think that telling a person not to change anything on his airplane is good advice.  

[Dennis Moritz]

It's the VG black bugs on Howard's and PW's wings. Stare at them for a minute in the hot Muncie sun, they move. Howard stuns the bugs at night with powerful Tesla lights. I saw a jar full of these insects on the passenger seat of THE Prius. Organic trim adjustment. Where is the rules committee? Will no one speak up?

[Howard Rush]

They only move for Dennis.  He had to go without cheesesteaks for a prolonged period in Muncie and had withdrawal problems.  He saw vortex generators moving and felt them crawling on his skin.  He'll be OK now that he's home.

[Dwayne]

John referred to the airplane.  I have observed the better fliers continually fiddling with their airplanes' trim to improve the planes and to adjust to conditions.  I even moved the leadouts back on my own airplane this evening.  I don't think that telling a person not to change anything on his airplane is good advice.  

Not to stir the pot, well maybe just a little  , what about Yatsenkos? Saw one in Toronto this year and it has no adjustments when I asked the owner he told me the prototype was tested ,adjusted perfect so it can be replicated and no adjustments are needed.

[john e. holliday]

I have in the past seen so many people with great flying planes start adjusting things.   It is great when you can put it back where you started.  But, most were at a contest.   One individual had his so messed up, he loaded up and went home.  Get used to the plane and when something unusual happens you can check your plane to see what has changed.   My Sheeks Spitfire gave me fits in round one of Classic one year.   Thanks to Robert Brookins he discovered my lead out guide was moving back an forth.  Was happy with the plane until a couple of years later when the bell crank post decided it didn't want to stay put.

[Howard Rush]

It is great when you can put it back where you started.  But, most were at a contest.   One individual had his so messed up, he loaded up and went home. 

I have a pen and paper to record trim changes.  I can always put back anything I change.  If you don't experiment, you won't know what having the leadouts too far forward or having a low elevator-flap ratio feels like, so you won't know what to do when conditions change. The individual who got his plane messed up and went home didn't know what to do.

Get used to the plane and when something unusual happens you can check your plane to see what has changed.   

More likely you can check the weather report to see what has changed.  Then you can change either the weather or the airplane to make it fly better in those conditions.  If you don't know how to do either, you're out of luck.

Mind you, I'm still learning this trimming stuff.  I should fiddle far more than I do.

[Howard Rush]

Ha.  Two weeks after I wrote the piece above (just to pick on Doc), my airplane got so messed up that I couldn't fix it.  It took a heap of retracing steps and flying by a name-band stunt plane trimmer to figure out what happened.  It had acquired a wing warp.  Maybe I bumped a flap getting it in or out of the car.  I shouldn't be so cocky.  I still am, of course.

[john e. holliday]

Thanks Howard,  I see you haven't changed a bit.   Still remember the days at Swope Park.