This crap should concern us all!

[peabody]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/drone-crash-new-york-city_n_4033566.html

[mike londke]

What an idiot, they should charge him with whatever will stick. Not good for model aviation for sure.  Mike

[55chevr]

Anyone can purchase and anyone can fly them.  The camera feature is what attracts the people.   This will be a problem for sure. Not good for us in NYC with a fatal r/c heli accident last month here. 

Joe

[Randy Powell]

yea, first time I saw one advertised, I thought, that's not going to end well. CL may end up the ONLY time of modeling available if these dorks don't start using that appendage above their shoulders.

[Wayne J. Buran]

Hey, just another happy R/C flyer. There are thousands of these bozo's. They invade our field all the time. Kinda like a pestalance, plague, vermin, something like that. Can't wait for the FAA to fall on them.
Wayne

[Mike Keville]

Wonder if anyone forwarded this to the Academy of Mostly ARFs - so they can sweep it under the rug.

[Brett Buck]

Wonder if anyone forwarded this to the Academy of Mostly ARFs - so they can sweep it under the rug.

   Of course you and I are completely agreed on the topic, but most people flying these sport R/C airplane/helicopter are not AMA members and probably never heard of it. Of the sport fliers I see, I would guess 90% are not AMA members. Hard to do anything about this sort of problem when the perpetrators are not members.

    Brett

[Hoss Cain]

Wonder if anyone forwarded this to the Academy of Mostly ARFs - so they can sweep it under the rug.

Mike, et al, if you want to see just how much the AMA really cares about the potential Safety stuff, simply take a good look  at the inside-front cover of your Oct. '13 issue of Model Aviation.  IMO here is a horrible suggestion for young modelers and the overall well-being of AMA as a Safety Leader. I wrote that to AMA and posted same on RC Universe. I have been bombarded with being the stupid fellow by RCers. AMA has NOT responded to me.

The picture of the bearded youngster up in the air on a skate board with a quad-copter taking pictures will - in my opinion - certainly happen by some youngsters around the modeling community. BTW that is a Horizon Hobby add.

As so many say, I am totally wrong and may well be so. I still think this is a bit too much for our small hobby and could possibly not be conducive to AMA's future as a keeper of Safe Aeromodeling.

[Randy Cuberly]

  Of course you and I are completely agreed on the topic, but most people flying these sport R/C airplane/helicopter are not AMA members and probably never heard of it. Of the sport fliers I see, I would guess 90% are not AMA members. Hard to do anything about this sort of problem when the perpetrators are not members.

    Brett

Yes, but the AMA seems to be defending these idiots and Park Fliers even though they should be smart enough to realize that they will never convince any appreciable number of them to join the organization or follow any particular rules...even the ones that would normally be considered Common Sense.
They certainly spent a lot of our dues money when they thought the FAA was coming down on R/C.
I agree that eventually there are going to be enough stupid people (you can't fix stupid, by the way) flying R/C that the FAA is going to shut it down...not that it bothers me I figure they are bringing it on them selves and good riddance.  Could be a big shot in the arm for CL and Free Flight since they can't be directed at anything.

Randy Cuberly

[Brett Buck]

Yes, but the AMA seems to be defending these idiots and Park Fliers even though they should be smart enough to realize that they will never convince any appreciable number of them to join the organization or follow any particular rules...even the ones that would normally be considered Common Sense.

   Don't get be wrong, I am as appalled by the marketing/sport flying side of the AMA as anyone. But of course they are defending it because the manufacturers and commercial interests are running the show in the AMA.

     Brett

[Mike Keville]

Thanks to boneheaded and irresponsible RC 'park flyers' and other clueless RC morons, I am seriously considering not renewing membership with the Academy of Mostly ARFs.  Having been a member since 1951, I am increasingly dismayed by what the organization has become.

[Mike Griffin]

I can assure you that incidences such as this will increase as time goes on.  Anyone can buy one and do anything with it they wish.  There are a number of issues that these have already raised and will more so in the future.  Safety is a huge concern but so is privacy.  Granted with the recent "OUTINGS" of the brown shirt agencies such as the IRS, FBI and NSA we may not have privacy at all anymore, this is just one more reason for concern for us.

It is not a matter of if but when, some jackleg wannabe hot shot, is going to maime or kill someone besides themselves and when this happens, it will not just be helicopter and fixed wing RC aircraft that will come under intense scrutiny, it will be ALL flying models including us.  

Mike

[Dennis Moritz]

Seems folks here are getting what they ask for. Do what you want. No regs on anything. If we can't agree on the rudimentary principles of registering and regulating objects specifically designed to kill people, kill people in mass, what hope is there to put sensible stipulations on the purchase and responsible use of toys.

[peabody]

People lump ALL model flying activity into the same pile....
Just as Giant Scale and Jets pose a threat to "regular" air modeling.
I believe that we should all reach out to our AMA District VP's and remind them that CL is a different animal.

[Scott Richlen]

Good point!  It is extremely important that we establish the difference.  While AMA goes off chasing first person view, park-flyers (who never bother joining), ARF-a-mania, and other crap, we need to hold the center.  Actually, Flying Aces Club is a good example of holding the center.  Unfortunately, AMA is clearly about AMA instead of the members they are supposed to serve.  Academy?  Where are the academics?

[Avaiojet]

Why do you think I left R/C.

Charles

[Joe Just]

Don't forget the media as the third leg of the "stupid" stool.  Watch the video again and note just how stupid the talking heads can be with their questions.  As a retired radio news director I can tell you that the vast majority of media people I have come in contact with are only trained in presentation and not much else.  On top of that carefully listen and you will note their personal feelings about the incident.  Studies have shown that listener reaction varies with the presentation and not the facts.  There's more but that's enough ranting for a while.
Joe

[steven yampolsky]

When does a toy stops being a toy? These quadcopters are toys just like skateboards. skateboards kill people every year and I am not counting injuries. this looks like a case of a TV station on a lean news day trying to make something out of nothing. Here's a few things that make me lean towards this becoming a news story:

1) The news was not broadcasted during prime time by their top team. Leads me to think this is just a filler piece between commercials.
2) The fella who almost got killed did not show his face. Why? He took the "video card" out of the wreckage. That could be construed as stealing someone else's property.
3) The guy did not call police even though the quadcopter "almost hit him". Instead, he called a news station. Why?
4) Why do you think police did not pursue this any further after the news station contacted them for comment? Did you notice the generic nature of police's response? They don't think it's a big deal


Fact of the matter it, people fly these things in Manhattan all over the place because quadcopters are TOYS! Yes, they can injure others but so can this:

[Sean McEntee]

So who wants to talk about something else that actually IS important?

[Andrew Borgogna]

Back in the day when I flew R/C one of the members in our club, who happened to be a lawyer, explained that it is illegal to fly a model of any type over other peoples property.  Your right property rights extend up to infinity!  Only aircraft that have FAA approval and certification are allowed to fly over your property.  I asked my local hobby shop manager if he knew this about the law and he said yes and that he informed everybody who buys one of these toys about the law.  But then again since when has the law stopped anybody from acting stupid.

As to the question "should we care", darn right we should care.  This kind of activity, like it or not, reflects on all of us.  As for the AMA, I agree with everything everybody else said!  If it were not for the need to have insurance to fly at our site I would drop them like a hot potato.
Andy

[55chevr]

This was reported in prime time by the A team in NY. NYPD will not investigate without a complaining witness. "Drone" a/c are going to be a much more common news item as the come more into use.  With virtually no skill required to operate children will be at the ;Controls. This is just the  beginning.

[Reptoid]

Some of the  comments in this thread are just wholly inappropriate. I have been in the model airplane hobby for more than 58 years. I have flown freeflight, controline, and yes, RC-power, electric, and saiplanes and have been an AMA member, competitor, and CD during that time. I can assure you: There are idiots in all branches of the hobby. There are also: responsible, well mannered, rule/law abiding folks just enjoying their hobby in all of the catagories.
Advocating restricting or banning all hobbies except yours is a very small minded way to act. Eventually bad Karma will return the favor and your hobby will be hated on and banned by all those you hated on.

In case you all have forgotten: plenty of folks have been badly injured, and even killed by controline planes. I have witnessed a couple myself. Everything we do in life has some amount of risk attached to it.

As for the AMA: I don't particularly like their direction either but as a National organization they, like any other similar organization, react to their largest contingencies and the money/power that brings to the table. Like it or not controline and freeflight make up a very small percentage of their membership. That is not directly their fault.
The fact that they remain large enough to purchase our liability insurance is a good thing and nowadays we wouldn't have a flying field without the proof of that insurance, at least in our neck of the woods, and I suspect in most areas.
So............Fly more-stress less. Enjoy the hobby while you still can

[Brett Buck]

Advocating restricting or banning all hobbies except yours is a very small minded way to act. Eventually bad Carma will return the favor and your hobby will be hated on and banned by all those you hated on.

  I don't see much of anyone advocating banning anything.  What I think people are saying is that with enough of this nonsense, it's going to get banned or heavily restricted.  I doubt that this will be beneficial in any way to CL, in fact I personally think no one will bother distinguishing between CL and anything else and we will all get screwed.

     Brett

[Mike Griffin]

"Eventually bad Carma will return the favor"

I do not mean this in a nasty way Reptoid, but the word is KARMA.  What Brett just posted is basically what I said in my earlier post.  When the hammer comes down, it is not going to make any difference what category you are in. 

Mike

[Reptoid]

Hey, just another happy R/C flyer. There are thousands of these bozo's. They invade our field all the time. Kinda like a pestalance, plague, vermin, something like that. Can't wait for the FAA to fall on them.
Wayne

Like this one Brett?

[Reptoid]

Thanks Mike. I edited it for spelling

[Brett Buck]

Like this one Brett?

  Conceded. But most of it is not like that.

     Brett

[Avaiojet]

Some of the  comments in this thread are just wholly inappropriate.... I can assure you:
There are idiots in all branches of the hobby... There are also: responsible, well mannered, rule/law abiding folks just enjoying their hobby in all of the catagories.... Eventually bad Karma will return the favor and your hobby will be hated on and banned by all those you hated on.

Reptoid,

Where have you been for the last four years, I could have used you! 

Charles

[55chevr]

The public will not differeniate between disciplines.?  This has the collateral damage potential. We could all be painted with the same brush. 

[Brett Buck]

The public will not differeniate between disciplines.?  This has the collateral damage potential. We could all be painted with the same brush. 

  Exactly!

    Brett

[Randy Cuberly]

The public will not differeniate between disciplines.?  This has the collateral damage potential. We could all be painted with the same brush. 

You are likely right that the general public will not differentiate between modeling disciplines...however in the end scheme what the general public thinks or believes is seldom the law of the land.
The FAA has already officially classified Control Line model airplanes as tethered Kites and do not even include them in the controlled regulations.

This information came from the AMA when the conferences on the Drone regulations were in progress, and we were all concerned about R/C regulations affecting C/L.

Certainly if the hammer falls there could be some local confusion on what is allowed and what is not but those problems should be easy to solve with a little diplomacy.

Incidentally...the few serious accidents involved in Control Line flying all involved "PARTICIPANTS" and I think all were in fact AMA members.  That's a very different situation than crashing into Joe Blow walking down the street or flying through the picture window of Harvey and Mary's TV watching time.  Or as is really the case flying into a crowd of spectators and mowing them down!!!  We all know that has happened time and again with R/C.
I'm not anti R/C, in fact I used to be a pretty serious R/C pattern flier...and still occasionally fly an R/C glider or two.  However I really feel that the safety legislators are eventually going to severely limit or eliminate it.

Incidentally Dennis...The largest mass murder incident in the US involved the use of commercial aircraft not guns (I know that's what you were referring to).   The commercial aircraft industry is one of the most heavily regulated situations in the country but...it didn't help did it!

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

Guess the AMA didn't here of the gentleman that electrocuted his self flying a CL plane under high tension power lines.  Somehow he lived through it if you can call it living by not being able to do any thing for yourself.  Completely paralyzed.   As far as the AMA insurance, it is only required for sanctioned contests and some sanctioned clubs.   Just have good home owners insurance if you do have an accident.   I know guys that fly CL several times a year with no AMA license.   Now I wonder when the hobby supplier is going to respond when an individual causes a personal injury or property damage and the owner of the RC equipment states they were never told about flying regulations pertaining to RC flying.   I won't mention FF as most of those people know what they are doing.

[Hoss Cain]

Hello John:
You are very good with your information, and I respect about 99% of everything you say. OTOH, any of us can leave some participles dangling ( my high school English Teacher said I dangeled way too many of those little things)    In your post, nothing to do with the danglers, but some items can leave a wrong impression on some rather new fun flier modelers that have little concern about AMA.
I also knew of a modeler - OWNED a Hobby Shop in Wheeling Il - that taught CL beginners UNDER a massive cable electricity system. He laughed at me when I tried to tell him that doing CL there was very dangerous. He said he had been doing it for years. About a year later he was dead. He was flying alone and went a tad too high.

1.AMA INSURANCE is REQUIRED for ANY MEMBER of any AMA CHARTERED CLUB.

2.AMA INSURANCE is REQUIRED by any person flying in ANY AMA SANCTIONED EVENT, not just a contest, be it RC, CL, FF or simply a get together fly-in, fun-fly, ect.
 This is somewhat off topic of the original post, yet there are certain items that need to be exact when non AMA fliers are reading these postings.
Now age 77 almost 78, an AMA member since early teens and maybe before that, a Life member for many years,
CD since 1963, serrved as Cont. Coordinator and 2 terms on the EC. I also claim credit for the plan that finally obtained the FCC release of the RC 72 mhz freqs. BTDT! Dec. 1981

Guess the AMA didn't here of the gentleman that electrocuted his self flying a CL plane under high tension power lines.  Somehow he lived through it if you can call it living by not being able to do any thing for yourself.  Completely paralyzed.   As far as the AMA insurance, it is only required for sanctioned contests and some sanctioned clubs.   Just have good home owners insurance if you do have an accident.   I know guys that fly CL several times a year with no AMA license.   Now I wonder when the hobby supplier is going to respond when an individual causes a personal injury or property damage and the owner of the RC equipment states they were never told about flying regulations pertaining to RC flying.   I won't mention FF as most of those people know what they are doing.

[Mike Keville]

1.AMA INSURANCE is REQUIRED for ANY MEMBER of any AMA CHARTERED CLUB.

Oh, that's right.  I forgot.  Since I am a member of a chartered club I suppose I'll need to renew with the Academy of Manufacturers' Advocates.

[Randy Cuberly]

Hello John:
You are very good with your information, and I respect about 99% of everything you say. OTOH, any of us can leave some participles dangling ( my high school English Teacher said I dangeled way too many of those little things)    In your post, nothing to do with the danglers, but some items can leave a wrong impression on some rather new fun flier modelers that have little concern about AMA.
I also knew of a modeler - OWNED a Hobby Shop in Wheeling Il - that taught CL beginners UNDER a massive cable electricity system. He laughed at me when I tried to tell him that doing CL there was very dangerous. He said he had been doing it for years. About a year later he was dead. He was flying alone and went a tad too high.

1.AMA INSURANCE is REQUIRED for ANY MEMBER of any AMA CHARTERED CLUB.

2.AMA INSURANCE is REQUIRED by any person flying in ANY AMA SANCTIONED EVENT, not just a contest, be it RC, CL, FF or simply a get together fly-in, fun-fly, ect.
 This is somewhat off topic of the original post, yet there are certain items that need to be exact when non AMA fliers are reading these postings.
Now age 77 almost 78, an AMA member since early teens and maybe before that, a Life member for many years,
CD since 1963, serrved as Cont. Coordinator and 2 terms on the EC. I also claim credit for the plan that finally obtained the FCC release of the RC 72 mhz freqs. BTDT! Dec. 1981

As I mentioned earlier these kinds of incidents are "participant inflicted"...in other words these idiots did it to themselves which is very different than inflicting injury on innocent bystanders like the drone incident.

Randy Cuberly

[Dwayne]

The public will not differentiate between disciplines.?  This has the collateral damage potential. We could all be painted with the same brush.  

Which is why we need to be diligent in informing the public that our planes are "teathered" by not one but two braided steel cables and tied to our wrist making the chance of a flyaway is almost nill. How to do this I don't know, maybe call your city hall and ask, I really believe if they see we pose no threat we could have a real leg up when it comes to any legislation regarding model aircraft.

[Brett Buck]

As I mentioned earlier these kinds of incidents are "participant inflicted"...in other words these idiots did it to themselves which is very different than inflicting injury on innocent bystanders like the drone incident.

  Exactly! Whacking ourselves or each other is one thing, whacking random members of the general public is another thing entirely. Problem remains that many of the whackers are random members of the general public like the whackees.

   Brett

[L0U CRANE]

"When the hammer falls..."

About 40 years ago, in the Boston, MA, area - Dedham, MA, specifically - hammering occurred. We flew on a local farmer's property, with his consent and relying on our individual AMA insurance. He was satisfied with that. We flew mostly CL, with occasional low performance FF - Guillows or like Northern Pacific ROG rubber FFs rejigged to fly better. (I lost one OOS, BTW.)

Unfortunately, the field was adjacent to Blue Hlls Golf Course. Golfers complained that RC models were flying over the golf course and "buzzing them." A Dedham PD Officer showed up one day and told us to stop flying and get off the field. Asked why, he explained the the complaints. He wasn't interested in hearing that our CL models couldn't fly more than about 60' from the flier - about 1000' from the nearest edge of the golf course grounds, and indicated that if we didn't pack up and get out we would be obstructing a Police Officer in his line of duty, and could be arrested.

We packed up and left. We did not forget, however.

The problem is not new. AMA has always been influenced by the hobby manufacturers - they are the life-line that AMA sees as supporting and promoting our hobby. There is value in that; without that alignment, the hobby today would lack all of the good that AMA does, even if we are pretty much unacknowledged orphans of dubious legitimacy.

[john e. holliday]

That sounds a lot like the story I posted some time ago about in individual teaching young people about control line.  Police show up with  a noise complaint.  But, as he wanted to teach the youngsters about model plane he brought hand launch gliders.  Another noise complaint.   The last straw was when he showed them how to fold paper airplanes and fly.   After a meeting with the school and parents he finally got final approval to use the school grounds with limit on time of flying.   The person that was doing the complaining was told the next time they complained they would charged for bothering the police department.