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Author Topic: The Pattern Points are Back!  (Read 5671 times)

Offline Bruce Hautamaki

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The Pattern Points are Back!
« on: February 25, 2009, 02:34:30 PM »
     Oh Wait......  No they are not, Sorry. Go Back to what you were doing.






                    R%%%%

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 02:40:29 PM »
Now I look at this whole business more positively---my score won't be another 25 points lower than the next guy! LL~

Also there is no reason anymore to risk everything in a blown-out maneuver to try and get those pattern points ---in the usually vain attempt to place at 7th instead of 8th!

Yes I always look at the sunny side of the cloud. y1

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 03:16:20 PM »
>>Also there is no reason anymore to risk everything in a blown-out maneuver to try and get those pattern points ---in the usually vain attempt to place at 7th instead of 8th!<<

The competitive spirit in me thinks this is a shame. Oh well.
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 03:23:26 PM »
>>Also there is no reason anymore to risk everything in a blown-out maneuver to try and get those pattern points ---in the usually vain attempt to place at 7th instead of 8th!<<

The competitive spirit in me thinks this is a shame. Oh well.

I think pattern points shouldn't have been eliminated.  If you have a competitive spirit like me and Randy and others.  Pattern points are almost like bragging rights if you got through a pattern in rough conditions.

Matt Colan

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 04:48:07 PM »
Thanks, Bruce.  That's my kind of humor!
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 05:10:31 PM »
Under new rules you have to worry about getting it all in. that is in the proper order with enough laps between.  You do only one lap after the outside square(or any other maneuver) and get a big zero for the triangle. 
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 05:43:12 PM »
On the brighter side, when THEY succeed in getting the 7 minutes, you'll only lose the landing when you over run.

Go ahead and petition AMA, write an E mail to PAMPA, or bash your head against a wall - same result, except for the brain damage.
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 07:02:12 PM »
Come on, Paul.  As a former AMA committee chairman, you know how tough it is even to get the committee members to vote, let alone to get the rank and file to read the proposals.  My district stunt contest board member is as elite as they come, but he based his vote on responses he got to a note he sent out to us soliciting opinions on the rules.  I didn't respond.  I can't complain.  I do, though, of course. 
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Offline Scott Hartford

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 08:38:22 PM »
This forum has a poll feature that could be utilized for things such as this.  :!Never seen one though..... HB~>

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 08:52:15 PM »
On the brighter side, when THEY succeed in getting the 7 minutes, you'll only lose the landing when you over run.

Go ahead and petition AMA, write an E mail to PAMPA, or bash your head against a wall - same result, except for the brain damage.

   Oh, for goodness sake, more of the "creeping FAI/Electric" conspiracy? Well, it's a welcome change from all the other conspiracy theories. Or am I missing something - are they all really part of a single, EVEN LARGER, conspiracy. That's really ominous!
 
     Brett

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 09:28:51 PM »
 ;D
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 10:04:53 PM »
OMG Brett, is that why I fell in love with my electric plane!? ??? maybe I should start wearing that doggone aluminum foil hat again! VD~ n~ :!


edited to add obligatory smiley face emoticons,, lest anyone misinterpret my misguided sense of smart a$$
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Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 10:47:50 PM »
Mark, was the foil hat protecting you from stray signals or was it concave so you could receive them?
Peter Ferguson
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 11:14:42 PM »
Out of fear of retribution from the "others" I dont think I should answer that question Pete,,, I have sold my stunt soul unto the ,, uh,, well, thats a secret too   AP^  <= AP^
and besides, the signal absorber cone is UNDER the foil cone,, the cone weeds out the bad signals and the absorber is then only receptive to the good signals,, muahaa haa haa y1
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 11:20:40 PM »
Mark, was the foil hat protecting you from stray signals or was it concave so you could receive them?

   That's an EXCELLENT question!  It also seems a propitious moment to announce a very important new development in Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat ) technology. For years, conventionally-shaped (conformal) beanies have protected people from the deleterious effects of mind-control radiation devices. However, the high reflectivity that resulted in such excellent  protection had the very unfortunate side effect that *the reflected mind-control rays were easily detected by the source*. This left the subject free of mind-control, but also easily indentified and tracked, and thus subject to other forms of coercion/influence.

    But now, for the first time ever, the Sekrit Kabal has authorized disclosure of a new development in AFDB technology - the faceted deflector beanie! Created using principles of radar-based stealth first identified by Ufimtsev and developed by Denys Overholser at the Lockheed Skunk Works, the facets of the Faceted Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (FAFDB, or FAB, for short) reflect mind-control radiation as effectively as a conventional AFDB, but do not deflect the rays back towards the source and are thus immune to detection by the mind control operators. Even better, the FAB beanie can be faceted and function perfectly as a pyramidal shape - and thus serve a secondary purpose of channeling the Earth's energy for the user's benefit, much like the original faceted shapes, the pyramids found on Egypt's Giza plateau!!!!!. Of course this effect is optimized only when the head is properly aligned with true North, but useful effects can be detected as far as 45 degrees from the ideal alignment.

   Full diagrams and tolerances for construction of a FAB beanie are in the drawing release cycle as we speak, prototypes are in testing,  but it appears that no special tooling or exotic materials are required, merely conventional household aluminum foil, careful attention to detail, and studious maintenance of the sharpness of the folds to prevent stray reflections in the direction of the emitter.

    Details to follow!

    Brett
 
p.s. A critical note for those anxious to develop their own version before the official plans can be released and distributed.  It had been noted in development of the FAB that the proper shape and orientation is *critical*!  Improper shape and/or inverted use can turn the advantages of the stealth version to a liability; specifically, creating a FAB with 3 faces and a 90-degree angle can create what physicists refer to as a corner reflector! A corner reflector deflects the mind-control radiation, but unfortunately, it reflects the radiation perfectly back to the source!. This effect has been used for other sinister applications for decades - the Sekrit Kabal developed corner reflectors carried to the moon on the  Apollo program. Ostensibly used to measure the distance to the moon with great accuracy (see below) but with a covert side effect of permitting very narrow-beam point-point communication  via moon-bounce transmission. These were tested on the PAMPA Project Mogul balloons as radar targets that were, unfortunately, compromised with infamous consequences ( see also below, bottom picture modified to conceal identity of developer). In any case, improper shaped FABs can both greatly magnify the reflected radiation, but also concentrate the radiation intensity for the user, obviating the advantages. All the attacker need do is set up the transmitter on the antipode, and aim the beam downwards and into the cavity! The Earth is almost completely transparent to mind-control radiation frequencies, so control and tracking are enhanced! The average user does not possess the technology to adequately test for this effect. Please take extreme care in constructing unapproved FAB designs.


« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 12:03:22 AM by Brett Buck »

Offline Andrew Hathaway

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2009, 11:45:49 PM »
One afternoon a guy walks into my place of work, wearing a top his head a wire frame pyramid.  I remember my boss nearly lost it and had to ask the guy what the deal was.  He gave some explanation of pyramid power, and so on.  Obviously it was not the first time he'd been asked "hey buddy, what's with the triangle on your head".

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 12:43:36 AM »
Are they expensive?

Offline Bruce Reynolds

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 05:45:19 AM »
Brett,

Little known details of early R&D attempts of mind-control radiation deflection techniques have recently come to light.  It appears that AFDB research has been going on much longer than originally thought.  The research included the testing of devices to warn those in close proximity of the detection of Mind-Altering Rays (MAR.)

The gentleman below demonstrates the MAR-detection warning device:


Offline Dick Fowler

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 07:33:17 AM »
I have a question and it's and honest one. It seems that most people either ignored or were unaware or didn't understand the ramifications of this rule change.

I believe Sparky made comment about not looking at the AMA mag. when the rule proposals were being made. Not too valid of an excuse but I understand that most of us do not really feel that most AM info is of value to us so we do a tune-out. I can tell you that our district had nothing in the way of solicitation of the PA fliers as to their wishes regarding the changes.

I'm not a PAMPA member so I can't comment on how much in depth discussion of these rules was done by the group or published for the membership's benefit. I would think that without a doubt this should have been front and center with PAMPA considering their roll in in PA and a SIG to the AMA. Judging from reactions of people that I know are members, t appears that it wasn't well publicized.They reach the majority of stunt guys in the USA and it is the optimum vehicle to gather the feelings of the people most affected by these changes.

I guess this is a bit of a whack at PAMPA if they didn't really make an effort... but hey... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Please feel free to correct my view if I'm wrong.
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 07:56:00 AM »
Dick it makes me no difference on pattern points or pull tests/wight or line size. What really I am steamed about is how its done. The people on the contest board read here and SSW. why not post it here and SSW. Some will say its on the AMA site. Well thats great but that site is not interactive like the message boards that are at your disposal. (Hence instant feedback) No waiting for a ballot or mag, this is the information age. I think everyone was against a change yet it got in why? Because the guy who wrote the rule was on the board. It would not matter what was written. Next is the way the BOM interpretation came about. Because someone was afraid of doing some leg work. A stupid interpretation came about at the last minute.

What was failed to be seen is, if there was a protest, its on the person who protested to prove their case. Not the person who is protested against to prove their innocence.

I don't care about the rules as long as they are equal to everyone. As far as pull test (well lets say) They made it harder on them selfs. But who cares water always finds a level playing field.

Great quote from Dale on SSW.
pattern points are a relic from the past"

Absolutely true, but so are control line model airplanes.

Every year, there are sad countenances of those who are really gifted, experienced, prepared, talented, etc, etc, and they are packin' for home because they left out something, did too many of something, over ran, under ran, etc. I do this, occasionally, er...regularly.. about the same amount as some Top Five flyers. It IS an accomplishment, I think, to do all the tricks as written and therefore get an "atta' boy" (pattern points). "You know, somethin' for the effort"! In serious competition, no matter what the level, there is PRESSURE on the pilot. Look how they are bent over during Takeoff! Handling this pressure well deserves the 25 points. Throw in harsh conditions, and the pattern points become critical- the flyer who can handle the wind, rain, whatever comes up, gets the bonus, beats those who don't- he is the better flyer on that day.

Not an arguement- just a different viewpoint: PP are a positive, a bonus for doing it correctly, not a penalty for doing it incorrectly.
That's the American way, right? Well, at least the "cowboy way"!

The methodology for voting on these type issues has been pretty well hidden from the flyers, It is difficult to find anything on the AMA site. Keith has rectified this with the last issue of SN, it's all out there, anyone interested can make his voice heard. These discussions we are having now will be in the CLCB members' mail boxes next round, "you betch'um, Red Ryder!"



Respectfully submitted, dale g
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 08:26:17 AM by Robert Storick »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2009, 08:24:15 AM »
I just felt, much like I feel about the BOM issues, that removing pattern points was yet another way of "dumbing down" PA. Get rid of the BOM, get rid of pattern points. Make the event easier.

This is probably unfair since I don't know that removing pattern points and instead giving zero points for botched maneuvers or inadequte laps between maneuvers makes it easier, but it does take away the motivation to try to hang in on a pattern when conditions are poor. Why bother if there aren't pattern point to earn?

I don't know that any of this is bad, per se. Like the changes in the BOM rule, it's something that is a response to changes in society, I guess.

OH, almost forgot. Very good Brett. Go get yourself a treat.   8)
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Offline Charlie Pate

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2009, 08:38:08 AM »
I Gotta agree with Randy!.
Not that I am happy with the situation as it is at the present.  ???

Offline Peter Ferguson

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2009, 10:41:24 AM »
My question was an honest one too. I just never thought it would spur Brett's response. These things remind me why I stay on the commercial side of aviation. During my short stay at GD I worked on military products (Cruise missiles) I used to freak out on my way home and turn around to make sure I didn't leave out any classified material on my desk. I think if I had continued with that career I would be wearing a tin hat also.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2009, 10:43:50 AM »

The methodology for voting on these type issues has been pretty well hidden from the flyers, It is difficult to find anything on the AMA site. Keith has rectified this with the last issue of SN, it's all out there, anyone interested can make his voice heard. These discussions we are having now will be in the CLCB members' mail boxes next round, "you betch'um, Red Ryder!"
[/b]

    I understand that you don't like the changes, and for the most part, neither do I. But the methodology for rules changes has been known, published, distributed, and mostly unchanged, for literally *decades*. The back end of MA/"AMA News" has been the place that the proposals were published and tracked since MA started in the mid-70's, and I just don't think process is a valid complaint. You can look on a calendar for where we are in  rules cycle and they follow the schedule to the letter - precisely to address the issues of transparency. Similar notices and proposal summaries were published in SN, as well, and also have been discussed at some length on SSW, and probably here, too.

    Like it or not, we are pretty well stuck with this rule book until 2011. Maybe this time more people will participate in the process and provide input to the CB.

   And, for purposes of transparency, we are starting a new cycle as of January 2009, proposals are solicited NOW for consideration, vote and inclusion in the 2011 rule book.

     Brett

Offline Andrew Hathaway

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2009, 11:20:48 AM »
I don't really care much about the rules or the process, "they" can establish the rules, and if the rules are reasonable I'll show up and follow them.  But I can understand how people could miss something printed in Model Aviation...  The magazine is worthless.  I give it a quick scan to see if anything catches my eye, then it quickly goes into the archive.  Being published in Stunt News or the AMA website doesn't help me much either, since PAMPA is a luxury I can live without, and the AMA website is hard to navigate and nearly as useless as Model Aviation.

Since C/L is a hobby with a rich history, and is attractive to cranky old farts, the pointless debates seem to come with the territory.  Isn't there a sub-forum just for rules discussions so that those of us that don't want any part of it, don't have to be exposed? 


Offline RC Storick

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2009, 11:36:48 AM »
There was until we crashed. If so wanted I will re open a new one.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2009, 01:11:45 PM »
Or the instant you realize its a rules rant,, RUN AWAY<< just close the browser with that thread,, dont read it,,,,,
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Offline dale gleason

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2009, 06:49:03 PM »
My statement that the methodology was pretty well hidden was referenced to my experience. I learned the way it was done about two, maybe three cycles ago, even made some proposals. My point is that I had to be around awhile, do some digging, and it just wasn't that easy. The reaction to this round kind'a makes it seem still difficult. BUT, I don't think anyone is in the dark anymore, for any other reason than Keith has made it as clear as it can get. I appreciate that, I think everyone will who has a proposal or wants to change something will agree. And it doesn't mean you'll get your way, but you will see it as it happens instead of noticing it already has happened. dg

An example of what I'm referring to by "Keith making as clear as it can get" is his new feature in Stunt News.  dg

While I'm here, I should point out that the bold type and red lettering were not in my SSW post. Trying to stay more low key is my goal.   :)  dg 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 01:41:39 PM by dale gleason »

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 11:32:05 AM »
Brett,
after trying to better digest your informative post on the ABT (aluminum beanie theory) I did some research, it appears that MIT has been hard at work on this very issue, you may find this a productive exploration....
Look for me with maybe a LEAD beanie at the regionals.... or my next club meeting,,

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
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Offline Leo Mehl

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 01:54:21 PM »
   That's an EXCELLENT question!  It also seems a propitious moment to announce a very important new development in Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat ) technology. For years, conventionally-shaped (conformal) beanies have protected people from the deleterious effects of mind-control radiation devices. However, the high reflectivity that resulted in such excellent  protection had the very unfortunate side effect that *the reflected mind-control rays were easily detected by the source*. This left the subject free of mind-control, but also easily indentified and tracked, and thus subject to other forms of coercion/influence.

    But now, for the first time ever, the Sekrit Kabal has authorized disclosure of a new development in AFDB technology - the faceted deflector beanie! Created using principles of radar-based stealth first identified by Ufimtsev and developed by Denys Overholser at the Lockheed Skunk Works, the facets of the Faceted Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (FAFDB, or FAB, for short) reflect mind-control radiation as effectively as a conventional AFDB, but do not deflect the rays back towards the source and are thus immune to detection by the mind control operators. Even better, the FAB beanie can be faceted and function perfectly as a pyramidal shape - and thus serve a secondary purpose of channeling the Earth's energy for the user's benefit, much like the original faceted shapes, the pyramids found on Egypt's Giza plateau!!!!!. Of course this effect is optimized only when the head is properly aligned with true North, but useful effects can be detected as far as 45 degrees from the ideal alignment.

   Full diagrams and tolerances for construction of a FAB beanie are in the drawing release cycle as we speak, prototypes are in testing,  but it appears that no special tooling or exotic materials are required, merely conventional household aluminum foil, careful attention to detail, and studious maintenance of the sharpness of the folds to prevent stray reflections in the direction of the emitter.

    Details to follow!

    Brett
 
p.s. A critical note for those anxious to develop their own version before the official plans can be released and distributed.  It had been noted in development of the FAB that the proper shape and orientation is *critical*!  Improper shape and/or inverted use can turn the advantages of the stealth version to a liability; specifically, creating a FAB with 3 faces and a 90-degree angle can create what physicists refer to as a corner reflector! A corner reflector deflects the mind-control radiation, but unfortunately, it reflects the radiation perfectly back to the source!. This effect has been used for other sinister applications for decades - the Sekrit Kabal developed corner reflectors carried to the moon on the  Apollo program. Ostensibly used to measure the distance to the moon with great accuracy (see below) but with a covert side effect of permitting very narrow-beam point-point communication  via moon-bounce transmission. These were tested on the PAMPA Project Mogul balloons as radar targets that were, unfortunately, compromised with infamous consequences ( see also below, bottom picture modified to conceal identity of developer). In any case, improper shaped FABs can both greatly magnify the reflected radiation, but also concentrate the radiation intensity for the user, obviating the advantages. All the attacker need do is set up the transmitter on the antipode, and aim the beam downwards and into the cavity! The Earth is almost completely transparent to mind-control radiation frequencies, so control and tracking are enhanced! The average user does not possess the technology to adequately test for this effect. Please take extreme care in constructing unapproved FAB designs.



Didn't you know this never happened?

Offline Bill Heher

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2009, 02:11:08 PM »
Brett,
after trying to better digest your informative post on the ABT (aluminum beanie theory) I did some research, it appears that MIT has been hard at work on this very issue, you may find this a productive exploration....
Look for me with maybe a LEAD beanie at the regionals.... or my next club meeting,,

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

Mark if you wear lead on your head west of the Rockies don't you have to get a Govt. grant for an EPA impact study? You may be subjecting innocent bystanders to the harmful effects of not only reflected / absorbed MCR, but the lead head covering once used must be regarded / handled with the care of spent nuclear fuel rods.

" If ya gotta wear lead on yer head you may be better off dead!"
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Offline Leo Mehl

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Re: The Pattern Points are Back!
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2009, 12:29:23 AM »
   That's an EXCELLENT question!  It also seems a propitious moment to announce a very important new development in Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat ) technology. For years, conventionally-shaped (conformal) beanies have protected people from the deleterious effects of mind-control radiation devices. However, the high reflectivity that resulted in such excellent  protection had the very unfortunate side effect that *the reflected mind-control rays were easily detected by the source*. This left the subject free of mind-control, but also easily indentified and tracked, and thus subject to other forms of coercion/influence.

    But now, for the first time ever, the Sekrit Kabal has authorized disclosure of a new development in AFDB technology - the faceted deflector beanie! Created using principles of radar-based stealth first identified by Ufimtsev and developed by Denys Overholser at the Lockheed Skunk Works, the facets of the Faceted Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (FAFDB, or FAB, for short) reflect mind-control radiation as effectively as a conventional AFDB, but do not deflect the rays back towards the source and are thus immune to detection by the mind control operators. Even better, the FAB beanie can be faceted and function perfectly as a pyramidal shape - and thus serve a secondary purpose of channeling the Earth's energy for the user's benefit, much like the original faceted shapes, the pyramids found on Egypt's Giza plateau!!!!!. Of course this effect is optimized only when the head is properly aligned with true North, but useful effects can be detected as far as 45 degrees from the ideal alignment.

   Full diagrams and tolerances for construction of a FAB beanie are in the drawing release cycle as we speak, prototypes are in testing,  but it appears that no special tooling or exotic materials are required, merely conventional household aluminum foil, careful attention to detail, and studious maintenance of the sharpness of the folds to prevent stray reflections in the direction of the emitter.

    Details to follow!

    Brett
 
p.s. A critical note for those anxious to develop their own version before the official plans can be released and distributed.  It had been noted in development of the FAB that the proper shape and orientation is *critical*!  Improper shape and/or inverted use can turn the advantages of the stealth version to a liability; specifically, creating a FAB with 3 faces and a 90-degree angle can create what physicists refer to as a corner reflector! A corner reflector deflects the mind-control radiation, but unfortunately, it reflects the radiation perfectly back to the source!. This effect has been used for other sinister applications for decades - the Sekrit Kabal developed corner reflectors carried to the moon on the  Apollo program. Ostensibly used to measure the distance to the moon with great accuracy (see below) but with a covert side effect of permitting very narrow-beam point-point communication  via moon-bounce transmission. These were tested on the PAMPA Project Mogul balloons as radar targets that were, unfortunately, compromised with infamous consequences ( see also below, bottom picture modified to conceal identity of developer). In any case, improper shaped FABs can both greatly magnify the reflected radiation, but also concentrate the radiation intensity for the user, obviating the advantages. All the attacker need do is set up the transmitter on the antipode, and aim the beam downwards and into the cavity! The Earth is almost completely transparent to mind-control radiation frequencies, so control and tracking are enhanced! The average user does not possess the technology to adequately test for this effect. Please take extreme care in constructing unapproved FAB designs.



THat looks like some of the scrap from a sailplane I lost in 1951!? HB~>


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