News:


  • April 25, 2024, 10:38:58 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: The key to getting youngsters in?  (Read 2992 times)

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
The key to getting youngsters in?
« on: April 03, 2019, 06:32:06 AM »
So, here we have a picture of my nephew flying last night!

You may remember, last fall he called it quits, he was done.

But, between my dad (his grandpa) and my sister, they pretty much booted him out of the door last night to go flying.  The promise of Grandpa coming to watch probably helped too.  Loading up my car, he still seemed less than enthused, until he saw the Lipos and electric motor on the Ringmaster he would be flying.

Once at the field, I took him over the setup and arming of it.  He was like "you just plug it in, push a button and go?"  Last year, he'd get bored with grumpy motors not wanting to start, and maybe only getting a single flight in as a result.  Plus, the slime he wasn't a fan of.

He was ALL ABOUT the electric!  And seems like he wants to pick up the handle again :-)  Maybe electrics are the key?  Grumpy old timers will pipe in about patience and the such.  I agree.  However, you gotta get your foot in the door somehow!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline Angelo Smyth

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 09:33:53 AM »
That's awesome!
-A.

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4227
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 09:48:16 AM »
TJ,
I agree 100%. For some kids the idea of hand starting an engine is not appealing. I remember when I was 12 -13 and started flying with my Uncle, we had a simple box fuse ship with an OK Cub 14 on it (no muffler back then), hand launched. I would hang onto it and launch then go into the circle and take over the handle. Just hanging on to it at the time was hard as you had to hold the fuse and wing to get a good launch. Regular landing gear and a muffler would have made it easier. Electric, once set up, gets you in the air with reliable results. Once you get hooked then other aspects of the hobby get more interesting and you want to try them.

Best,   DennisT

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 11:37:42 AM »
T. J. I have to agree with you a bit.  Will have to get an electric set up and see.   But, what all is needed to get going.  I see planes and power packages, but what else is needed? ???
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 11:53:52 AM »
John,

this is a Brodak Ringmaster ARF with an E-flite motor.  not sure which ESC or timer, I would assume both from Brodak.  This was given to my niece and nephew to fly by a fellow club member, along with 4 4S 2200mAh batteries!  I fly with some pretty freakin' awesome guys  ;D  I already had a power supply and charger from my days flying R/C helicopters.  He hooked them up ready to go, even with lines and handle!

some say electrics are easier than fuel, and cheaper.  I don't really see either one.  Nitro has incremental spending on fuel and plugs, but it's not really that bad.  Electrics have a high up front cost of getting all the batteries, chargers, power supplies, etc.  If you run out of your packs for the day, you're done unless you can charge at the field and wait for them to charge.  with a gallon of fuel and a 4oz tank, that's 32 flights in a day...  but with electrics there's no slime to wipe up, and possible eventual airframe damage from oil.  but, lipos are still spooky in my opinion.  Mishaps if they are handled with care are pretty rare, but, that's a mess of chemical energy in one spot.

both have their pro's and con's.  I like nitro, but if this keeps the kids in the game, I'm all for it!  i'll keep making noise while they just "woosh" along

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 12:17:29 PM »
My Son-in-law and Grandson were here last month.  It was nice and I asked if anybody wanted to see Grandpa fly.  Son-in-law said sure and Grandson (who I had taken to see others fly last year and was not impressed) went along to keep Dad happy.  When I rolled out the lines and just walked over and punched the little red button his eyes lit up.  I had my Fancherized Twister so I decided to put on a show.  Did the pattern with 4' bottoms and skipped the extra laps.  Grandson is 6 and this time when the question came out "would you like to do this someday" the head was bobbing up and down really fast.

It was the electric that made the difference.  Kids like electric.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online 944_Jim

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 854
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 12:18:59 PM »
I hope electric lights your boy up!

Three years ago I wanted to rip the tablets away from my boys. We built a cheesy mouse racer around a Cox .049 Babe Bee from my own youth. They watched me build it, then they took turns crashing it. My oldest was really pretty distraught over crashing a plane that took some time to assemble. The youngest hated the sound of the un-muffled Bee. Eventually we built a second slabbie so they could see it wasn't very time consuming to assemble one from on-hand parts.
From there, they each built a Scientific Clone from DPC models (go Dave Cowell!).
While they tolerated building their own, the were reluctant to fly. I pushed all summer for them to fly the planes while I was recovering from surgery. Again, they tolerated it. In the end, the oldest doesn't care to enjoy the hobby. The youngest hates the noise still, but has said he would try again IF we could build electric. I doubt it will stick even if quiet. I will probably pick up a Brodak or RSM 1/2A package just for the youngest to try...why not? After all I p*:_!*:d away $250 in safety gear and AirSoft guns for them...and they gave that up after the second time of play with 12 other boys.
I, on the other hand, have enjoyed re-entering a hobby from my childhood over forty years ago! I'm not stopping until I can't bend, start, and fly the planes...Long Live the Stooge!

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 12:24:17 PM »
if he's making the direct request to try electric, indulge him!  sometimes it's just one little thing that gets it going it seems!

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 472
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 01:30:29 PM »
This has been food for thought.   I have several grandsons about 3 1/2 hours away and three more 15 hours away.    I built them a Sig 1/2A Skyray with a golden bee.  Haven't had a chance to try to teach them.  It hadn't occurred to me that they might be more inclined to appreciate/like CL if it was electric instead of IC.    When I was their age one of the things that appealed to me was the motor, getting it started, the noise.  Maybe I should ask them if they would prefer electric to glow fuel.

Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO


Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 01:35:16 PM »
kids now-a-days, hell, even most parents, are all about ease of use.

luckily, growing up, my dad was far from that type of guy, so I learned all about black widows and IC growing up.  how frustrating they are when they just "fart", but how accomplished it makes you feel when they finally fire!

we may have been attacking this all wrong.  perhaps cost isn't the issue, it's ease of use and access?  I wonder how much we could collectively come up with a 1/2A system for.  use old style "can" motors that don't really require an ESC, a simple timer circuit or voltage cutoff......?  think something in the $30-$40 realm?

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12808
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 03:10:58 PM »
kids now-a-days, hell, even most parents, are all about ease of use.

luckily, growing up, my dad was far from that type of guy, so I learned all about black widows and IC growing up.  how frustrating they are when they just "fart", but how accomplished it makes you feel when they finally fire!

we may have been attacking this all wrong.  perhaps cost isn't the issue, it's ease of use and access?  I wonder how much we could collectively come up with a 1/2A system for.  use old style "can" motors that don't really require an ESC, a simple timer circuit or voltage cutoff......?  think something in the $30-$40 realm?

Five years ago I built 1/2-A sized planes for the nephews, including $20 RC car radios for throttle control.  It was about $65 per for parts, at retail prices.  If you built those in lots of 10000, you could probably do it at a street price of $60 or less -- but it may take a while to sell 10000 of them!
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
kids now-a-days, hell, even most parents, are all about ease of use.

luckily, growing up, my dad was far from that type of guy, so I learned all about black widows and IC growing up.  how frustrating they are when they just "fart", but how accomplished it makes you feel when they finally fire!

we may have been attacking this all wrong.  perhaps cost isn't the issue, it's ease of use and access?  I wonder how much we could collectively come up with a 1/2A system for.  use old style "can" motors that don't really require an ESC, a simple timer circuit or voltage cutoff......?  think something in the $30-$40 realm?
I am sure there is something.  Too many park fliers out there that are about 1/2A size.  I agree that the lipo motor/esc/timer mix is a bit much for a 1/2A starter.  I have a little sailplane with an electric motor that puts out every bit as much wind as a Babe Bee and it is really small.  I will bet someone here has an answer if they just find the question!

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline CircuitFlyer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
    • www.circuitflyer.com
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2019, 05:22:51 PM »
Ya think?  Kids ain't interested in antiques.  Lets face it, from a kids perspective IC motors are so last century.   It's similar to telling your wife you are going to buy her a new ringer washing machine.  See how that goes over.  Why would you screw around and flip a prop when you can push a button.  The world has moved on.  It'll be left to us old kids to keep the control line historical preservation society alive as long as possible.  The young kids want something "new".

Last year, I hot glued together a Flight Test Mini Scout Speed Build Kit ($15).  Motor, battery and ESC from Flight Test.  1/2a control line bell crank, handle, fishing line, a cheap timer and it was ready to fly in an afternoon.  Perfect 1/2a trainer.

We had a youth in the club that had spent a lot of time building a nice balsa trainer with a .015 on it.  He was reluctant to fly (if he could ever get it started) in case he crashed.  I used the electric Scout and we had him start out at 10 second flights and work his way up.  He was flying solo after about 20 minutes.  So what if he had a hard landing.  Tape it back together and keep going, just like we did back in the day.  He went home and ordered the parts and built his own!
Paul Emmerson
Spinning electrons in circles in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada DIY Control Line Timers - www.circuitflyer.com

Online 944_Jim

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 854
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 05:55:01 PM »
Silver Dart,

How much have you got in the power system? Have you got part numbers?

My boy has a DPCModels Reproduction Scientific P6e that could use the same set up. It's the timer I am most interested in.

I guess I need to poke around Flight Test.

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 05:58:16 PM »
Ya think?  Kids ain't interested in antiques.  Lets face it, from a kids perspective IC motors are so last century.   It's similar to telling your wife you are going to buy her a new ringer washing machine.  See how that goes over.  Why would you screw around and flip a prop when you can push a button.  The world has moved on.  It'll be left to us old kids to keep the control line historical preservation society alive as long as possible.  The young kids want something "new".

Last year, I hot glued together a Flight Test Mini Scout Speed Build Kit ($15).  Motor, battery and ESC from Flight Test.  1/2a control line bell crank, handle, fishing line, a cheap timer and it was ready to fly in an afternoon.  Perfect 1/2a trainer.

We had a youth in the club that had spent a lot of time building a nice balsa trainer with a .015 on it.  He was reluctant to fly (if he could ever get it started) in case he crashed.  I used the electric Scout and we had him start out at 10 second flights and work his way up.  He was flying solo after about 20 minutes.  So what if he had a hard landing.  Tape it back together and keep going, just like we did back in the day.  He went home and ordered the parts and built his own!
Do you have part numbers for all of that or prints?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 07:47:51 PM »
Ya think?  Kids ain't interested in antiques.  Lets face it, from a kids perspective IC motors are so last century.   It's similar to telling your wife you are going to buy her a new ringer washing machine.  See how that goes over.  Why would you screw around and flip a prop when you can push a button.  The world has moved on.  It'll be left to us old kids to keep the control line historical preservation society alive as long as possible.  The young kids want something "new".

Last year, I hot glued together a Flight Test Mini Scout Speed Build Kit ($15).  Motor, battery and ESC from Flight Test.  1/2a control line bell crank, handle, fishing line, a cheap timer and it was ready to fly in an afternoon.  Perfect 1/2a trainer.

We had a youth in the club that had spent a lot of time building a nice balsa trainer with a .015 on it.  He was reluctant to fly (if he could ever get it started) in case he crashed.  I used the electric Scout and we had him start out at 10 second flights and work his way up.  He was flying solo after about 20 minutes.  So what if he had a hard landing.  Tape it back together and keep going, just like we did back in the day.  He went home and ordered the parts and built his own!
This has my possibility thoughts churning.  What about all the park fliers?  All we need to do is disconnect everything but the throttle and put in a bellcrank.  Presto, a CL trainer with an engine cutoff.  Just a thought.  Come to think of it I have a candidate in the garage.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


Offline Mike Danford

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2019, 10:24:51 AM »
Well,  it stands to reason.  I'm 52, attended my first cl contest when I was 30ish, VSC 97.  Didn't see any appeal at all to wandering over to and learning how to play with ignition... I was more interested in the much more modern reliable and easy (probably even sissy) nitro glow engines...

I guess I can forward how I felt one generation and the difference between nitro and electric.

I believe it's the ability to do that, see THEIR perspective, that will enable US to bring THEM into the hobby. 

I wonder how the old timer electric guys are gonna entice their grand and great grand kids?

Tools

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2019, 10:48:28 AM »
agree.  I'd like to tinker with an ignition, but not run one all the time.

I do however want a pulse jet :)

we gotta stop this "well this is the way it's been done for the last 30 years so take it or leave it" stuff.  it's the same thing that is killing American Industry (I work for a CNC grinding machine OEM).  refusal to step back, look at it with different eye's, and listening to feedback kills stuff quicker than anything else.

we just gotta get our foot in the door....!

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 11:44:34 AM »
Okay you guys, you have almost sold the old DOC.  What I would like to se is a complete package RTF plane similar to the Cox electric that sits in the shop.   Charge on battery was 4 hours and only gave a 3 minute flight, some time more.  Need a one stop place to get the package: plane, motor, propellers, batteries and charger.  I have lines and handles.  In fact the F2D handle I have makes for a great training handle.  Of course no thong until they solo. :) H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Online 944_Jim

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 854
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2019, 11:48:47 AM »
Still looking for a cheap timer...hoping Silver Dart shows us the timer.

I have no desire to fly with one hand, and handle throttle control with the other. Nor will my boy.

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2019, 12:03:39 PM »
Okay you guys, you have almost sold the old DOC.  What I would like to se is a complete package RTF plane similar to the Cox electric that sits in the shop.   Charge on battery was 4 hours and only gave a 3 minute flight, some time more.  Need a one stop place to get the package: plane, motor, propellers, batteries and charger.  I have lines and handles.  In fact the F2D handle I have makes for a great training handle.  Of course no thong until they solo. :) H^^

that's exactly what I'm shooting for here.  went to the e-side of the forum to ask those guys some questions.  those little 2S batteries eflite uses would be primo for this, especially since they have that super cool 4 battery field charger.

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2019, 01:29:08 PM »
I may be getting somewhere on this...   >:D

slow day at work....  lol

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2019, 03:25:25 PM »
I hear ya.  When he said he was done last fall. I left it at that.  Not sure how much my dad and sister pushed him, but he certainly seemed happy they did.  It's a carefully calibrated thing with kids, ya know?

I'm also with you on size, the larger the smoother, completely agree.  However with this, there is a price point and ease of assembly target.  I'm shooting for something almost anyone could afford and figure out.

Gone are the days of mowing some yards and your paper route for getting in.  $5.00 McCoy red heads don't exist.  How much is it, from kit, to get a ringmaster or flite streak in the air?  How much time to build?  We think it's not much, we aren't starting from scratch with each model, and forget the start up costs and initial building skills.  My niece's jaw dropped when I showed her how much her kit, tank, motor, dope, etc., all cost.  I wasn't going to lie when she asked me directly, she's of the age where money is becoming a tangible and understandable entity.  No way she would have saved that much on her own as a target (yet).  But, if she hangs up the handle, I have another model.

It won't do much except fly level and maybe a loop.  It's the "foot in the door" idea, that's it.  Just enough to make an itch.  Plus, with the 1/2a size, you only need about 60' of clear space rather than 100'+.  Ease of access for flight is also paramount.  Getting them to set that savings target, being like "this is kinda neat!  I bet a bigger one is even better!" is the goal.

Also, something someone wouldn't mind giving away to the next guy, or having one in the basement as a "just in case" if you run across a neighborhood kid.  A bit different giving something that's worth 60 bucks as opposed to 150+ on a "whim", right?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2019, 04:55:40 PM »
Gone are the days of mowing some yards and your paper route for getting in.  $5.00 McCoy red heads don't exist.
I had 2 paper routes and mowed lawns on the weekends.  McCoy 35 Red Heads were 3.50 at the BX (My dad was USAF) and you could get a Baby Bee for 1.75. or 6 lawns.  Then I grew up and that same Baby Bee on EBay probably went for $25 used.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline CircuitFlyer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
    • www.circuitflyer.com
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2019, 05:21:03 PM »
Here are the components I used:

Scout Speed Build Kit - https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-mighty-mini-scout-speed-build-electric-airplane-kit-609mm-flt-1018/p673682Motor  $15
emax MT1806 - https://store.flitetest.com/search?s=mt1806  $15.99
BL Heli 12A ESC - https://store.flitetest.com/emax-blheli-series-12a-esc-xt30-emx-sc-0098/p784967  $14.99
E-Zee Timer - https://www.stevensaero.com/product/e-zee-electric-control-line-timer-ecl/  $39
3S Lipo 450 to 650 mAh  something like this - https://store.flitetest.com/tattu-3s-lipo-battery-75c-11.1v-650mah-tat-75c-650-3s1p-xt30/p635609  $13

Sig 1/2a bellcrank and handle, Spectra 10lb test fishing line and an APC 6x3 or 6x4 prop.  A charger can be had for around $30 but you may want to start with a little more expensive one with more bells & whistles to accommodate for future growth.  I built the model for around a $100 ready to fly.  You can't look at the total final cost as the electrical components can be used on other models.  That's the cost of having fun these days.  Heck, a pair of runners and a baseball mitt will set you back that much.

It's a hobby not a toy.  What does that mean?  For a hobby you are required to bring a minimum set of skills and experience to kit it all together, you need to have an awareness of the safety risks and understand the basics of how it all works.  As for an all inclusive RTF airplane in a box - is that required?  You can't get one from Brodak's, why should a 1/2a trainer be different?

The modern term for what I did was a "hack".  The younger generation of "makers" buy stuff online, cobble it together and make it work.  They don't necessarily want a fixed choice in a box.  We did the same thing, except instead of online we went on our bikes to the hobby store.

Paul
Paul Emmerson
Spinning electrons in circles in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada DIY Control Line Timers - www.circuitflyer.com

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2019, 05:24:13 PM »
I had 2 paper routes and mowed lawns on the weekends.  McCoy 35 Red Heads were 3.50 at the BX (My dad was USAF) and you could get a Baby Bee for 1.75. or 6 lawns.  Then I grew up and that same Baby Bee on EBay probably went for $25 used.

Ken
Exactly....  $45 bucks from our neighbor up north now, who bought the name and parts/tools

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323646722651

It's no wonder we can't get youngsters in.  That, 35 bucks with shipping for a dewey bird, say 15 for handle/lines, then ordering fuel, and tracking down a couple extra glow heads, wrenches, and head clip.

It's a damn shame.  WE need to change this, since industry and AMA won't help us.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2019, 05:32:06 PM »
Here are the components I used:

Scout Speed Build Kit - https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-mighty-mini-scout-speed-build-electric-airplane-kit-609mm-flt-1018/p673682Motor  $15
emax MT1806 - https://store.flitetest.com/search?s=mt1806  $15.99
BL Heli 12A ESC - https://store.flitetest.com/emax-blheli-series-12a-esc-xt30-emx-sc-0098/p784967  $14.99
E-Zee Timer - https://www.stevensaero.com/product/e-zee-electric-control-line-timer-ecl/  $39
3S Lipo 450 to 650 mAh  something like this - https://store.flitetest.com/tattu-3s-lipo-battery-75c-11.1v-650mah-tat-75c-650-3s1p-xt30/p635609  $13

Sig 1/2a bellcrank and handle, Spectra 10lb test fishing line and an APC 6x3 or 6x4 prop.  A charger can be had for around $30 but you may want to start with a little more expensive one with more bells & whistles to accommodate for future growth.  I built the model for around a $100 ready to fly.  You can't look at the total final cost as the electrical components can be used on other models.  That's the cost of having fun these days.  Heck, a pair of runners and a baseball mitt will set you back that much.

It's a hobby not a toy.  What does that mean?  For a hobby you are required to bring a minimum set of skills and experience to kit it all together, you need to have an awareness of the safety risks and understand the basics of how it all works.  As for an all inclusive RTF airplane in a box - is that required?  You can't get one from Brodak's, why should a 1/2a trainer be different?

The modern term for what I did was a "hack".  The younger generation of "makers" buy stuff online, cobble it together and make it work.  They don't necessarily want a fixed choice in a box.  We did the same thing, except instead of online we went on our bikes to the hobby store.

Paul
Paul, you bring up good points.

However, we are also looking at a generation that expects "BNF" "RXR" and "RTF".  At least to start out with.

You're absolutely right, in the long run, IF one sticks with it, equipment costs get spread out.  But, I am just talking about getting someone the itch.  I know a few guys that fly beautiful RC 90 sized Helis that got the bug from a stupid little $20 air hog Walmart special.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12808
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2019, 06:34:39 PM »
WE need to change this, since industry and AMA won't help us.

All it takes is someone with a desire to make a small fortune, and a large fortune to start with.

Send a PM to Larry Reniger.  He's been working this.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online 944_Jim

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 854
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2019, 06:38:02 PM »
Thanks Silver Dart!

The parts list is just what I needed! What makes this better is my youngest bought  1/2 of the list to modify his battery-operated Nerf Dart-style gun.


Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2019, 10:05:16 AM »
All it takes is someone with a desire to make a small fortune, and a large fortune to start with.

don't have a fortune of anything other than ambition and the wanting to keep the hobby alive......

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3412
  • AMA78415
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2019, 06:42:26 PM »
About 20 yeas ago my grandson came to stay with us for about six weeks. I gave him a Sig trainer and a Black Widow Cox. I supervised the building, but He did all the  work himself including brushing all the dope.

We took, it out to fly and with in a few minutes he was soloing. With a few flights under his belt he was flying wingovers and loops. He never got to inverted. Now he is married, has three children, and a construction company. He really needs a hobby but does not seem to think He has time for it. I also taught him to fly R/C, but he liked control line much better.

You just never know who will take to it or not. My own three boys never took much interest. They were car and motorcycle guys I did teach all of them to fly. Our daughter liked it about as well as they did.
Jim Kraft

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 719
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2019, 08:27:27 PM »
Exactly....  $45 bucks from our neighbor up north now, who bought the name and parts/tools

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323646722651

It's no wonder we can't get youngsters in.  That, 35 bucks with shipping for a dewey bird, say 15 for handle/lines, then ordering fuel, and tracking down a couple extra glow heads, wrenches, and head clip.

It's a damn shame.  WE need to change this, since industry and AMA won't help us.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Well, I can't quite agree on this particular point.  You're looking at about $100 to get started in glow 1/2A with all new equipment.  Maybe $115.  That's really not bad compared to a kid in the 70's.  $20 in the 70's would be about like $100 to a kid today.  At least it was for me back then.  The difference is that cheap Chinese wares today only makes that look expensive in comparison.  Do I agree that some cheap electric packages and kits might help get kids today started?  Sure.  After all, kids are nuts.  Anyone who'd prefer silent electric planes compared to a healthy sounding 1/2A has to be nuts.

And as for Bernie, I believe he's doing a great thing.  $45 for a Babe Bee seems like a lot.  But look at what any of the kit makers charge for a kit.  We say that it's reasonable for them to sell kits in the $100 to $250 range because of the small volume they sell and the good quality we get.  I agree. They're working for the love of the hobby.  Do you think Bernie's getting rich off of Cox engines and accessories?  It still boggles my mind, the amount of his own money he must have had to shell out to buy the inventory from Estes when they sold out of the business.  I know I couldn't/wouldn't have done it with no real idea of how the investment would pay for itself.  As far as I know, Hobbico is still the owner of the Cox brand, as they bought the name from/with Estes.

As a 1/2A fanatic and dedicated Cox fanboy, I'm sure I'm biased.  But I defer to the reality that electric is here to stay, and kids have no taste...

Mark

Online Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2019, 08:51:41 PM »
Another cheap trainer option is Keith Morgan's coroplast PT-19.  The design and materials make for a low cost, durable, first plane.  It reportedly flies about as well as the original Cox plastic PT-19.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/12-a-building/my-take-on-keith-morgans-pt-19-trainer/

https://stunthanger.com/smf/12-a-building/cox-pt-19-replica-build-flight-video/





Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 719
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2019, 03:54:06 AM »
Another cheap trainer option is Keith Morgan's coroplast PT-19.  The design and materials make for a low cost, durable, first plane.  It reportedly flies about as well as the original Cox plastic PT-19.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/12-a-building/my-take-on-keith-morgans-pt-19-trainer/


This first thread was mine.  I just did a quick check, and assuming you can get the free coroplast from the usual sources, to buy all the electric stuff but the charger to do the electric version costs $47 dollars plus shipping from Value Hobby.

Mark

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2019, 05:59:12 AM »
cool!  thanks for the input guys!

Offline Cody bishop

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 137
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2019, 03:22:34 PM »
It’s quite possible when I first got in the hobby 3 years ago I was using all my dad’s old Enya’s with no compression and that took away a lot of fun. Going to new pre owned os max engines was the best decision I ever made.

Offline Stuntflyn

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2019, 04:55:47 AM »
This is a subject near and dear to my heart. It is a bit premature for me to announce any plans, but we have started a non-profit corporation and are still waiting on final IRS approval. I will have much more to say about this overall subject in the near future.

Here is my recommendation for aircraft:

http://www.modelsport.info/?mena=EUR&rb_hledat=&hledat=citabria

This is one tough bird - these are photos of our first prototype. I converted this built R/C Trainer to C/L. I have seen it cartwheel and crash straight into the ground with no damage. Our MCRC Club President looped it straight in the ground first takeoff - didn't even break the prop. It uses EPP foam which is incredibly strong because of it's pliability. You cannot use foam safe CA on this foam - use one of the "Goop" contact glue types (Zap Goo, Quick-Grip, etc.) or epoxy to glue to foam. You need to add the wing and fuselage spars to stiffen things up for C/L. Use 3/16" hollow carbon tubes (Tom Morris & others)and just epoxy or hot glue them to wing and fuse. 36" length is plenty long. I also use a battering ram for a motor mount - two 1/4" aircraft ply laminated into a 1/2" mount. This thing would bounce off of a brick wall. The prototype used a Supertigre 370 Brushless Motor and a Supertigre 20A Speed Control. Out new ones will use a 400 size motor with a 30A Speed Control.

Here is my recommendation for motor and ESC:

https://www.ebay.com/p/RC-2200kv-Brushless-Motor-2212-6-Mount-for-RC-Plane-Helicopter-30a-ESC/16018078789?iid=132035032387&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fp%25252FRC-2200kv-Brushless-Motor-2212-6-Mount-for-RC-Plane-Helicopter-30a-ESC%25252F16018078789%25253Fiid%25253D132035032387%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D132035032387%2526targetid%253D595232398029%2526device%253Dt%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9009897%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1661457330%2526adgroupid%253D63612800626%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-595232398029%2526abcId%253D1140466%2526merchantid%253D102014720%2526gclid%253DEAIaIQobChMIufLp7Z3z3wIVio7ICh0wqAqKEAQYAiABEgLYGvD_BwE%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1822398969683%2526rvr_ts%253D588bd1bb1680ab6a81871cc0fffe3017

Incredible price - $6.38 for motor AND ESC. Of course, you have to wait a while on shipping for either of these two items - one comes from Czechoslovakia and the other on a slow boat from China. Our new ones will be in use at Joe Nall, Brodak and King Orange this year, so if you are attending one of those this year, be sure to stop by to check them out.

Here are some details which will be the same for our new Citabrias - freshly arrived from Czechoslovakia:
8X4" APC Electric Prop
2.5" Lite Wheels (available from Tom Morris and others)
Dubro Adjustable Control Horn for elevator (to cut down on elevator throw)
3" Bellcrank
200 lb test Spiderwire fishing line for lines - 35 foot length

I included below detail photos of some of the conversion construction details for the Citabria. I also included a photo of my Parkzone ultra-micro Mustang C/L Stunter, another R/C conversion. I changed the ailerons to flaps just like a big stunter. Will loop, fly inverted, do lazy eights, etc. Tiny - could fly it in my backyard.

Please forgive me if I don't reply to any inquiries right away, I am very busy the rest of this week. I went down the street today to the gymnasium where we fly indoor 3D Foamies to take a short video of the C/L Citabria so you can see it in flight. Flies comfortably at about an eight second lap time. It is an awesome first flight C/L trainer.

Here are the links to view the videos on You Tube:

Shot in vertical frame:



Shot in horizontal frame:



Good luck



« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 08:22:51 AM by Stuntflyn »

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2019, 05:51:44 AM »
very cool!!!  i'll see you at Brodak!

Offline Mark Mc

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 719
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2019, 12:15:44 PM »
Lots of great information there.  I'll have to look more at those motor packages.  I don't have an indoor area to fly, but I have co-workers swho park fly, so Maybe I can get some of them interested.  I need to get guys over on my side of town flying so I don't have to drive an hour to get to the other guys who fly.  But, surely you meant 20 pound test Spectra rather than 200 pound test?

Any more info elsewhere about your Parkzone P51 conversion?

Mark

Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6867
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2019, 08:19:25 PM »
   You know, this is not by any means a new subject. I have read about this "problem" in model magazines going back to WW-2. The Youth Problem, New Blood, pick your moniker for it, it has always been the same basic theme. For the better part of my adult life, I have been involved with trying to interest kids in the hobby with flying demonstration, Boy Scout meetings, one on one while working at a local hobby shop for over 35 years, and over a 16 year period, having somewhere between 4000 to 5000 kids on the handle of a trainer at the KidVenture circles at Oshkosh. I have spent countless hours at mall shows (when they still had shopping malls!) talking to people and talking with fellow club members about "the problem."
   In this day and age it is a lot tougher. There is a vastly different type of 'kid" these days. i'm like a lot of you in that when I was a kid, if I heard anything that sounded like a model engine running, I was off like a shot to find out where and what it was, and was often disappointed that it was just a chain saw! If I run an engine, and there are kids playing in the street, they never give it a second look. And as far as electric goes, I play around with some electric park flyers in the circle under the street light on calm evenings. even with them still playing or riding bikes, they never pay it any attention. We have a generation of kids now, that any kind of airplane or aviation in any form, just doesn't catch their interest. Sean will tell you, that when he was in AIT training, he was the only one that knew what the various parts of an airplane were!
   I think that in today's world, we need to look at this in a different light. Forget the kids. If you get a kid interested, he still has to have his dad buy stuff for him, take him here and there for supplies and unless the kid is your next door neighbor, (in which case you just became the free baby sitter,) you have to try and snare the dad also.or at least hope he has his kid's best interest at heart, but that's not likely.
   I think the thing to do is to work at attracting the Dads and/or the Moms. They are the ones with the bank account and the minivan. If you get a parent seriously interested, you'll get the kids also. By the time a guy is in his twenties, he's already dealt with all the distractions that a lot of us gave up models for at one time or another, he's settled down, has a job and an internet connection, and maybe likes to watch YouTube. He's matured enough to understand what he's seeing, and in some other way may be interested in a motor sport of some kind. models and motor sports have always been intertwined. Depending on his upbringing and DNA, he may evolve into a true gear head, or be a techie and prefer electronic stuff. Either way, there is something out there to satisfy their curiosity and interest. Then he will go out and buy the kit or get the old model down that was his Grandpa's or Dad's and give it a whirl. I have seen this in the club I belong to. Guys that are twenty or thirty somethings that had never had an interest in the hobby before due to other interests but are now settling down and finding an attraction to it. I have for a LONG time said, that you can not hold a gun to someone's head and make them like and want to build a model airplane. It has to be something inside you, and it can come to the surface at any time, better late than never!
   As for an airplane, I have mentioned on the forum before about the model that we evolved into at Kidventure, the Toughbaby. After years of flying the Bratco Skybaby and using up a large supply of those, Bob Arata and I came up with a design using the Norvel .061 from the Skybaby, and the air frame made from coreplast plastic yard signs. We talked about it a lot on the long drive home on what the airplane should and should not be. The result was an airplane that was almost indestructable, could fly on almost 50 foot lines and handle the winds of Wisconsin when it needed to. After going through literally hundreds of SkyBaies, we built 5 ToughBabies and took them to Oshkosh in 2010. As of last year, I think four of teh original five were still in service. It was not only a tough airplane as far as crash survival, but with the way it was laid out, you could let a kid hold it and play with it and he wasn't going to break a thing. The only items that came from a hobby shop were the engine, lines, handle and bell crank. Everything else came from the hardware store. If a kid of parent was interested in the airplane, plans were given away in the form of a file that was emailed out after the AirVenture convention was over.  After who knows how many sets of plans were set out, by the time i did my last stint at KidVenture, I think maybe one or two people brought built airplanes back for us to see and fly.
   Larry Renger and his club have a similar program with a similar coreplast airplane  in a pusher configuration and use an electric motor set up. I think they have a remote cut off on their airplane. You have to limit the number of laps that a kid or parent does at first due to dizziness, and if you have lots of people to handle. you need to keep the line moving! This set up has a lot of merit and if the supply of Norvel engines ever runs out, they may have to look at it at KidVenture. But I will have to say that the there seemed to be plenty of interest in the little engines and how they worked and ran.
  That's just my take on the situation, after working on the endeavor for about 30 years in one way or another. You just can't get discouraged, and just have to keep putting things out there for people to see and experience and be ready for anyone that shows interest. Good luck to you all that are working on programs and projects. The best advice I can give you no matter how you go about it, is to just keep it simple for your students and for yourselves.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee.
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Stuntflyn

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2019, 08:46:43 PM »
Hi Mark,

There really aren't any construction photos of the Parkzone Mustang. I finally wore it out, so I took the guts out and am in the process of converting the mini T-28 Trojan. There are a couple of things I would do differently on this second prototype before I do the other mustang I have.

You cannot use the 1 cell brushed motor that comes with this type of aircraft if you want it to stunt, you need more power. On the original mustang, I used a cut down push button timer along with a 2 cell outrunner brushless motor and speed controller. I would not do that again. Micro planes have so little weight and with the extra drag of the Spectra lines, when the motor quits, you had better get to the ground but quick.

For the mini Trojan, I will use the same 2.4ghz Parkzone or E-Flite transmitter I use on the Citabri. This means you have to use the 2 cell outrunner motor and E-Flite or ParkZone receiver from one of their aircraft. The advantage is that you will now have throttle, which will be very nice for landings and other fun stuff. I have attached a photo of the transmitter set up for the Citabria. I will use the same transmitter on the mini-stunters.

The remainder of the process is really about the same as on the original Mustang conversion. Start by removing the top portion of the fuselage. Take out the stuff you no longer need. You will have to make a custom bellcrank from thin aluminum or other such material. I used a carbon post and secured the bellcrank to that. Drill a hole in the foam fuselage to accept the post and epoxy in.

Make up the pushrod to the flap horn. I made the two flap horns out of 1/64" ply and and then drilled three holes in each flap horn.  Make a small 90 degree bend in each flap wire and slip each flap wire through the hole in the flap horns. Wrap assembly in Kevlar thread and epoxy to secure. Make z-bends on your flap and elevator pushrods and slip those through the correct holes in the flap horn. Attach z-bends from elevator pushrod to flap horn. Make whatever cutouts are needed in the aircraft to make sure your control system works freely. Mount 2 cell outrunner motor and E-Flite or ParkZone 2 cell speed control. Tape the top of the fuselage back on.

Now for the stunting part. Buy an extra wing/belly pan. Carefully cut away the belly pan to prepare the lower wing halves for assembly. On original wing, carefully remove landing gear for reuse on new bottom wing halves. Glue the new wing halves to the original wing. Voila . . . you now have a fully symmetrical wing. Re-attach the landing gear and mount leadout guide somewhere near the vertical CG for best performance.

Check to make sure everything works as planned and then button up everything by re-attaching the upper fuselage section.

I would have to measure, but think line length is somewhere between 12'-15'. Crank that baby up and go stunting in your backyard!! Spectra fishing line again, I would have to ask Wayne how many pound test it is, I am not the fisherman (though I like it, no time). Thought he said 200.

Best place to get transmitter is at an R/C swap meet or a friend with an old RTF E-Flite or ParkZone aircraft. You can buy them online, but they are about $50.00. Wayne and I had several between us because of purchasing the RTF models. I've probably given four or five away - wish I had them back now. Receiver is a regular Spectrum 2.4ghz - the smaller the better. HobbyKing makes some Spectrum clone receivers and I know some guys have good luck with them. I have a lot of the Spectrum brand receivers, so I just use those. Space is at a premium when working in such tight areas, so plan carefully once you have all the components. 2 cell batteries typically mount under the fuselage in a cavity made for them.

Long day, about to give out, but this should at least get you moving in the right direction.

Offline Stuntflyn

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 119
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2019, 09:29:09 PM »
   You know, this is not by any means a new subject. I have read about this "problem" in model magazines going back to WW-2. The Youth Problem, New Blood, pick your moniker for it, it has always been the same basic theme. For the better part of my adult life, I have been involved with trying to interest kids in the hobby with flying demonstration, Boy Scout meetings, one on one while working at a local hobby shop for over 35 years, and over a 16 year period, having somewhere between 4000 to 5000 kids on the handle of a trainer at the KidVenture circles at Oshkosh. I have spent countless hours at mall shows (when they still had shopping malls!) talking to people and talking with fellow club members about "the problem."
   In this day and age it is a lot tougher. There is a vastly different type of 'kid" these days. i'm like a lot of you in that when I was a kid, if I heard anything that sounded like a model engine running, I was off like a shot to find out where and what it was, and was often disappointed that it was just a chain saw! If I run an engine, and there are kids playing in the street, they never give it a second look. And as far as electric goes, I play around with some electric park flyers in the circle under the street light on calm evenings. even with them still playing or riding bikes, they never pay it any attention. We have a generation of kids now, that any kind of airplane or aviation in any form, just doesn't catch their interest. Sean will tell you, that when he was in AIT training, he was the only one that knew what the various parts of an airplane were!
   I think that in today's world, we need to look at this in a different light. Forget the kids. If you get a kid interested, he still has to have his dad buy stuff for him, take him here and there for supplies and unless the kid is your next door neighbor, (in which case you just became the free baby sitter,) you have to try and snare the dad also.or at least hope he has his kid's best interest at heart, but that's not likely.
   I think the thing to do is to work at attracting the Dads and/or the Moms. They are the ones with the bank account and the minivan. If you get a parent seriously interested, you'll get the kids also. By the time a guy is in his twenties, he's already dealt with all the distractions that a lot of us gave up models for at one time or another, he's settled down, has a job and an internet connection, and maybe likes to watch YouTube. He's matured enough to understand what he's seeing, and in some other way may be interested in a motor sport of some kind. models and motor sports have always been intertwined. Depending on his upbringing and DNA, he may evolve into a true gear head, or be a techie and prefer electronic stuff. Either way, there is something out there to satisfy their curiosity and interest. Then he will go out and buy the kit or get the old model down that was his Grandpa's or Dad's and give it a whirl. I have seen this in the club I belong to. Guys that are twenty or thirty somethings that had never had an interest in the hobby before due to other interests but are now settling down and finding an attraction to it. I have for a LONG time said, that you can not hold a gun to someone's head and make them like and want to build a model airplane. It has to be something inside you, and it can come to the surface at any time, better late than never!
   As for an airplane, I have mentioned on the forum before about the model that we evolved into at Kidventure, the Toughbaby. After years of flying the Bratco Skybaby and using up a large supply of those, Bob Arata and I came up with a design using the Norvel .061 from the Skybaby, and the air frame made from coreplast plastic yard signs. We talked about it a lot on the long drive home on what the airplane should and should not be. The result was an airplane that was almost indestructable, could fly on almost 50 foot lines and handle the winds of Wisconsin when it needed to. After going through literally hundreds of SkyBaies, we built 5 ToughBabies and took them to Oshkosh in 2010. As of last year, I think four of teh original five were still in service. It was not only a tough airplane as far as crash survival, but with the way it was laid out, you could let a kid hold it and play with it and he wasn't going to break a thing. The only items that came from a hobby shop were the engine, lines, handle and bell crank. Everything else came from the hardware store. If a kid of parent was interested in the airplane, plans were given away in the form of a file that was emailed out after the AirVenture convention was over.  After who knows how many sets of plans were set out, by the time i did my last stint at KidVenture, I think maybe one or two people brought built airplanes back for us to see and fly.
   Larry Renger and his club have a similar program with a similar coreplast airplane  in a pusher configuration and use an electric motor set up. I think they have a remote cut off on their airplane. You have to limit the number of laps that a kid or parent does at first due to dizziness, and if you have lots of people to handle. you need to keep the line moving! This set up has a lot of merit and if the supply of Norvel engines ever runs out, they may have to look at it at KidVenture. But I will have to say that the there seemed to be plenty of interest in the little engines and how they worked and ran.
  That's just my take on the situation, after working on the endeavor for about 30 years in one way or another. You just can't get discouraged, and just have to keep putting things out there for people to see and experience and be ready for anyone that shows interest. Good luck to you all that are working on programs and projects. The best advice I can give you no matter how you go about it, is to just keep it simple for your students and for yourselves.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee.

You make excellent points Dan. It is up to each of us to try to promote continued interest in our sport. IMHO, the type of planes used are only relevant in terms of can a newbie fly it successfully without too much effort or destroying it in quick order. You obviously have a design that is both easy to fly and durable. Every person has there own niche of what they prefer, but I think the common denominator is can a person be successful when they try it. Failure is not a great inducement for further interest down the road.

I think one of the biggest challenges are finding places where someone can give it a try on their own. Wayne and I currently have to drive about an hour to get to a place where we can even fly our planes. School yards are now fenced off, many parks in metropolitan areas allow no type of motorized model flight whatsoever any more. Hobby shops are disappearing and when is the last time you went into a retail store and saw any kind of C/L plane? Won't see them except at very specialized places or online.

How many kids even know what a control line airplane is? Heck, how many adults even know. I will say this, most all of them know what a radio control airplane is and that is part of our problem. There is something to be said about a radio-controlled C/L plane, even if the radio control only works the throttle. At least part of it is recognizable to a large portion of the general public.

Control line obviously has some very big challenges ahead and you in particular are to be applauded for your efforts. It is amazing how many training flights you have made with newcomers. I certainly agree with you there are many ways to skin a cat, the important thing is that you are skinning and thus having some effect in keeping this great sport afloat. Thanks for all your efforts.

Tom Vieira

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2019, 05:41:27 AM »
great points Dan.

Hmmm....  to get guys and gal's in their 20's.......  should we have booth babes and booth hunks at the nats and other big contests????  hahahahahaha!  i'm sure my niece and nephew wouldn't mind!  lol

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4986
Re: The key to getting youngsters in?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2019, 08:35:04 PM »
Wayy outside the paragram , But . . .

This fancy electronic flight mapping , for aerobatics , sorta brings ' IT ' into the 21st Century .

IF the World Chumps were ' Data Conscious ' and all highly tecnical like that , It would make it look highly tecnical and absorbing & space age .

Also comprehendable as pesants could SEE What was going on and HOW the Entrants were getting on .
With their feeble attention spans sitting on the couch in front of T V with their potato chips .

" MARKETING " is perhaps the RELEVANT TERM . Or is it a DODO . ( The British Navy is to blame for that . )


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here