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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Derek Barry on July 30, 2014, 04:18:23 PM
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I assume that all our guys will be leaving soon to head for Poland. I just want to wish the entire team a safe trip and much success at the World Championships. After watching Howard fly at the Nats and knowing how good Orestes flies I am sure that the team will do well. I have not seen Kenny with his new plane but I expect that he is also in top form and ready for action. I will be watching the forums and facebook for updates during the competition and I am sure the rest of the world will be too.
Also, thanks again goes out to Bill Lee for being the Team Manager, he does everything he can to help our team and his hard work is greatly appreciated!
Go kick some ass guys!
Derek
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I assume that all our guys will be leaving soon to head for Poland. I just want to wish the entire team a safe trip and much success at the World Championships. After watching Howard fly at the Nats and knowing how good Orestes flies I am sure that the team will do well. I have not seen Kenny with his new plane but I expect that he is also in top form and ready for action. I will be watching the forums and facebook for updates during the competition and I am sure the rest of the world will be too.
Also, thanks again goes out to Bill Lee for being the Team Manager, he does everything he can to help our team and his hard work is greatly appreciated!
Go kick some ass guys!
Derek
What he said!!!!!!!!!
Go get that trophy!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Yep, best of luck to all of you, enjoy the adventure, and have a great trip. y1
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Wishing all you guys the best of luck at the Championships and hope you can enjoy things while there.
I'm especially cheering for Howard...Go Howard...and have fun!!!
Randy Cuberly
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Good Luck Team USA! May you all medal and win the team championship! Enjoy A SAFE trip.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Add my best wishes for good providence at the World Championships to our entire Control Line team.
Yes, Howard is looking good and had a great Nats. He's ready. From last September's performance we all know that Orestes is more than ready. The word I get from Kenny Stevens' coach, Wynn Paul, is that he's also hitting it out of the park. They should do well; maybe surprisingly well.
Go team USA! - Bob Hunt
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We have a very good team. All the best to them. We will be anxious for the reports.
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Go Team USA!!!!!!
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Howard needs a poem
to say how he's goin'
to the Worlds, to trounce all the others
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Let Howard concentrate on winning the World Champs along with the rest of the team. Goes for all the other members flying speed, racing and combat. GO USA.
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And don't forget the number one rule... "What happens on tour, stays on tour...."
Marcus
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.
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Let Howard concentrate on winning the World Champs along with the rest of the team. Goes for all the other members flying speed, racing and combat. GO USA.
I dunno. I find it a bit unsettling that we're getting no jive from the Jive Combat Team. Maybe he's decided that he's now the Staid Stunt Team?
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Thanks, everybody. I'll do my best.
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Everybody please rest assured: Marilou is along to keep him straight!
;D ;D
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Best wishes Howard.
John L.
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I hope Howard remembers to pack his uniform. :##
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Our U.S Team Howard , Orestes, and Kenny we wish you all good luck and have tons of fun... bring us some hardware :-)
Randy
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Good luck, guys. I'm pulling for you all. I'll be watching and hoping.
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Good luck Team!
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First of all, THANK YOU for representing us, second, I hope each of you flies the best you ever have!!! God's best to you.
Will
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Bring it to 'em and bring it home Fellers.
I know it took a lot of time and effort to get to where you have gotten.
Have a terrific time and enjoy every minute of it.
Shug
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Good luck to all. May all your hard work and effort be rewarded. Have fun, enjoy, and bring home the gold! #^ y1
Larry
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dont forget ,the boys will have K.T. as assistant manager so they will be in good hands
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Howard, Orestes and Kenny praying you guys have a great time in Poland and good results too. Kenny, can't wait to hear about your extended stay (vacation) after the competition is over. Jan and I are planning our 50th anniversary to travel Europe.
GO TEAM USA #^
Blessings
Allen
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I know this is a stunt forum basically, but what about the others representing our great country at the World Champs? Who's on the F2A, F2C and F2D teams? I hope all our teams have a great year at the champs.
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A whole boat-load of information is available at the team website: http://www.2014CLWC.org (http://www.2014CLWC.org) including a listing of team members, supporters, etc.
Team Members |
| Name | Role |
| Allen DeVeuve | F2D Mechanic |
| Carl Dodge | F2A |
| Josh Ellison | F2D Pilot |
| Dave Fischer | F2C Pilot |
| Tom Fluker | F2C Pilot |
| Orestes Hernandez | F2B |
| Bill Hughes | F2A |
| Dick Lambert | F2C Mechanic |
| Bill Lee | Team Manager |
| Alexandra Nadein | F2D Pilot(Jr) |
| Andrey Nadein | F2D Mechanic |
| Chuck Rudner | F2D Mechanic |
| Mark Rudner | F2D Pilot |
| Howard Rush | F2B |
| Kenny Stevens | F2B |
| Richard Stubblefield | F2D Pilot |
| Keith Trostle | Assistant Team Manager |
| Alexander Valishev | F2A |
| Steve Wilk | F2C Mechanic |
| Howard Williams | F2D Mechanic |
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Go USA!!! #^ #^ #^
This is the first time I have ever taken a look the World Championship. A couple of questions come to mind. I am sure the answers are common knowledge but I have never given it any thought. First of all is the USA team sponsored? IE who pays for team members travel expenses etc. And will the World Championship ever come to the USA?
Go USA!!! #^ #^ #^
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Each team member pays a significant portion of their total costs. AMA covers some and the FAI Team funds cover some. But each contestant pays the significant portion.
It was in the US in 2004. Don't expect to see it again in the US at the AMA facility. AMA not interested in paying that much money for CL people. Sad, but true.
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Kenny and I got here Sunday afternoon. Trip here went smoothly, and all our stuff arrived in good shape. I'll post details and updates as time permits.
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Be sure to beat down "Mr Jet Lag" asap.
Glad you two made it there "intact".
Go get em!
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Great to hear you're there okay, thanks for that update!! We should have sent Dave Trible with you for the blow by blow! However, we'll accept any and all info you want to send back, just don't feel obligated to give up good practice and resting time! Be blessed, guys.
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/Thanks Bill for posting all of the team members. GO USA.
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/Thanks Bill for posting all of the team members. GO USA.
Kick butt, guys!
Ted
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Môj euro sú Igor obhajovať svoj svetový šampionát.
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God's speed to the entire Team USA. The Control Line community is proud that YOU represent US! Special Thanks to folks like Bill Lee for stepping up to this monumental task. Prayers for your safe return with LOTS OF HARDWARE!!!!
Steve Thornton
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Keith, Kenny, the ladies, and I went to the field today. It is clover, dandelion-type plants, and other such line grabbers. We stopped by HQ to ask about mowing and alternate sites. Nobody knew. We are setting out on an expedition looking for a place to practice.
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I'd be tempted to see if I could just buy a cheap lawn mower in a hardware store and go do the mowing, if one could figure out where the Poles stash such things, and if one could commit such an atrocity without being arrested.
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Keith, Kenny, the ladies, and I went to the field today. It is clover, dandelion-type plants, and other such line grabbers. We stopped by HQ to ask about mowing and alternate sites. Nobody knew. We are setting out on an expedition looking for a place to practice.
Yup....Same song, different year!
Isn't this dissapointing?
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Yup....Same song, different year!
Isn't this dissapointing?
Typical....
Glad you guys are there safe, good luck!
Derek
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The next step will be to find a perfect flying site only to be told that it can't be used for model planes.
Oh how I know how this works...ugh! :-[
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Our questions were: 1) When will you mow the field? 2) What are alternate venues? 3) Where can one buy a lawnmower?
The person who knows the answer to 1 wasn't there, but will be there in the morning. We're on our own for 2, and have been looking at soccer fields. We found a place to buy a mower. I'm getting impatient.
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Hang in there Howard. I'm sure it will get better soon.
Soon = Next Monday when the W C start officially!
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Pullin for you guys,, head up,, focus,, and have fun,, we await updates,,, almost patiently LOL
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Hang in there Howard. I'm sure it will get better soon.
Soon = Next Monday when the W C start officially!
Now you are just picking on him...
Brett
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No Sweat Howard...it's just another Ol' Combat contest....uuhhhh, Stunt Contest...yeah that's it Stunt contest...just focus on the task and kick their Ass!!
Half a dozen PERFECT flights aren't that hard!!!! Then you can relax and enjoy yourself!
Randy Cuberly!
Go Team!
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If you can't someone to do it, I suppose you have to do it yourself. Good luck, Guys!
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Now you are just picking on him...
Brett
Sorry if it appears that way. It's just my disdain for the WC organizers. They KNOW people are coming. They know WHEN people are coming, yet they can't get their act together enough to have the facilities ready. That's the way it has been for too many cycles now.
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The 2016 World Champs in Perth Western Australia will be a pleasant surprise for many then. There is major work happening at the site now to ensure the best possible competition and practice facilities. The grass circle in Bulgaria in 2012 was abominable, even after they mowed it.
Peter Anglberger
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God listen to you Americans complain about the Worlds facilities...
Not everywhere has tarmac ... or mowed grass circles.
There are some countries out there that don't have running water - You need to adopt patience in these instances. Remember you attend a worlds not to see how you fair against the best of the best in the world in pristine conditions ... but you attend to see how poorly a contest can be run - Think of it like Stunt volunteer work at a Shelter... if you remember that there would be less complaining.
FYI : My Grandfather is Polish - I've been there before a few years ago and its not great..... As my Grandfather said before he died " I left that $^@($ for a reason and I will never go back "
I'm sorry for the guys who are heading over for the first time.
I gave my support to Kenny and Howard at the Nats : Lower your expectations and expect the unexpected.
Seems ridiculous to expect people to MOW their own field after spending hours on a plane. For those on this forum whom HAVEN'T done international travel understand it can be a strain, you are taken out of your comfort zone and its a LONG flight to most places.
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The next step will be to find a perfect flying site only to be told that it can't be used for model planes.
Oh how I know how this works...ugh! :-[
Yes, that's precisely what happened. Keith and Kenny went to the field this morning and found mowing and rolling in progress. The lady in charge then told them that flying is forbidden until Thursday.
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Yes, that's precisely what happened. Keith and Kenny went to the field this morning and found mowing and rolling in progress. The lady in charge then told them that flying is forbidden until Thursday.
Clearly, Howard, They simply don't want you guys to mess up the field by sprinkling it with all those electrons.
They probably don't want you to practice either...at least not without the risk of damaging you airplanes...I'm sure the local guys have some sweet practice field tucked away where they are flying.
They say adversity makes the victory sweeter...uhhh I wouldn't know...I haven't had any victories in a long time, but you guys will overcome and WIN!
Randy Cuberly
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Well, if you can't fly then maximum rest is in order.
BTW, have not heard about Orestes arriving.
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Orestes left today.
Jose
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Orestes left today.
Jose
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Field is ready starting today.
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It's "ready", but can you use it yet? Hopefully it cleaned up nicely for you guys.
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Howard - I saw your Nats flights - I don't think you need to be concerned about practice.
I always like the naive approach when it comes to unauthorized flying.
Battery up, roll lines out, start flying - until someone walks up to you and says " YOU cannot fly here "
Reply - Yes ,Yes flying here I am thankyou.
Smile and continue. y1
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Maybe slide someone a few Euros when no one else is looking and you can all of sudden have access to an otherwise forbidden spot... hahahaha just kidding.
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Euros......No
Vodka......YES
Worked in Bulgaria!!!!
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Sorry if it appears that way. It's just my disdain for the WC organizers. They KNOW people are coming. They know WHEN people are coming, yet they can't get their act together enough to have the facilities ready. That's the way it has been for too many cycles now.
Hear, hear...
Remember Paul, in 2008, when young Minato tumbled from the pilot's circle into the grass?
Same WC, several times I had to jump all over the place to prevent my model from ending up in the trees there.
Who in his right mind puts a stunt circle next to massive 80 ft trees, or having the center a 1 ft step above the rest?
This made me decide to throw in the towel, as I want to 'battle' ;) my fellow competitors, not circumstances set up for us by inadequate organizers...
For some reason its always TR and Speed oriented people organizing Stunt, having no clue about the requirements and thus messing up big time....
One can always choose contests, but EC and WC we have to do with what we are being served...
I'd say, this should be a nr. 1 priority for CIAM, to scrutinize any offer for possible screw-ups.
@Howard:
See you in a few days, I'll be coaching my fellow Dutch and at least one Brit.
If you'd need help, I'll be there for you guys too, of course.
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We went the first official F2D WC in Liverpool. The local club put out a map of practice sites.
We went to get dialed in in one of the parks. I don't believe the local club had permission #1. Some locals loved it. Others hated it.
Old English lady waving a shillelagh - "that things sounds TERRIBLE!!"
Response: "Yeah, I agree. It's a bit over compressed, but we're working on it."
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http://www.aeroklub.wloclawek.pl/?id=113
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Well, if you can't fly then maximum rest is in order.
BTW, have not heard about Orestes arriving.
I talked to him yesterday as he waited for his next flight in Atlanta. I informed him that he was not missing anything because the team had not found a place to fly yet. He was not surprised...
Derek
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Went flying today. All's well with me, except I had to bump the RPM up a lot. Kenny's gear were too short for the grass field and probably too far aft. He flung a prop blade and blew the nose off his airplane. We came back to get supplies and fix the plane. Fix is progressing well. He should be good for the World Cup contest tomorrow. I hope he can fly tonight to check the fix.
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Just remember when in Poland to be careful when looking for a practice site. Avoid vacant landing strips with old WW1 Polish fighters. Whatever you do - DO NOT take pictures. S?P
If you do, we'll have to get a wise old editor to come help you out.
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Went flying today. All's well with me, except I had to bump the RPM up a lot. Kenny's gear were too short for the grass field and probably too far aft. He flung a prop blade and blew the nose off his airplane. We came back to get supplies and fix the plane. Fix is progressing well. He should be good for the World Cup contest tomorrow. I hope he can fly tonight to check the fix.
You were lucky that you were electric fliers.
I heard that there was NO fuel supply from the organizer of the World Cup event as of today.
Good flying, Aki
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"snip"
...I'm sure the local guys have some sweet practice field tucked away where they are flying.
"snip"
Randy Cuberly
Hey P.W., Remember China? The Chinese team had rooms at the field and everyone else was in the Shanghai Olympic Hotel and 11 miles (two hours by police escorted bus ride!) from the field. By the time the first outsiders arrived the Chinese Team were rolling up their lines and done for the day.
Ted
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Just remember when in Poland to be careful when looking for a practice site. Avoid vacant landing strips with old WW1 Polish fighters. Whatever you do - DO NOT take pictures. S?P
If you do, we'll have to get a wise old editor to come help you out.
Tom, ya gotta remember that the "Wise old Editor" was the problem--not the solution!
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Kenny repaired his model in the time it took me to change a prop. Unfortunately, he missed something in the tail. It didn't pull out of a wingover and is now smithereens.
Team Japan had some fuel today.
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Hope Kenny's back up is working?
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@Howard:
We haven't left base yet.
Anything we can bring? (provided it fits in the car)
By the way how do you connect to the web there?
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Kenny repaired his model in the time it took me to change a prop. Unfortunately, he missed something in the tail. It didn't pull out of a wingover and is now smithereens.
Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow.
Kenny have backup?
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Hope Kenny's back up is working?
I highly doubt there was a backup in his luggage. As far as I know, he only had time to build one take-apart plane for the contest.
Derek
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Maybe someone will come to Kenny's aid.
I feel terrible for him, I can only imagine how he feels right now.
Being 5000 miles from home makes even the smallest issues into big problems sometimes.
Derek
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Damn!
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Maybe someone will come to Kenny's aid.
If I had something take-apart I'd be calling up FedEx right now to arrange for shipping, but my planes are neither take-apart nor in Kenny's league.
If someone has a plane to donate and a box to ship it in, I'll toss in $20 for the shipping and hope others do, too.
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Tom, ya gotta remember that the "Wise old Editor" was the problem--not the solution!
Geez... Will I ever live that down? ::)
Bob Hunt
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Sure feel rotten for Kenny. With the time involved his best hope is that one of the European guys has a spare he can fly........if he could adapt to it fast enough. Better luck to all!
Dave
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i am good for $20
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Oh crap!! That is terrible. I can't imagine how pissed he is right now!!
I saw his building pics of that plane and it was really nice and he spent alot of and I mean alot of time on that plane. I sure feel bad for him.
He is a good flier. If he can borrower one from someone I bet he can fair well if he has some time on it....
Damn, I hate to hear that about his plane and his trip.
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If no one has stepped up by now with a plane to ship it probably won't happen, but if it does, I'm in for $40! I really hate this for Kenny, he's one of the super good guys!
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Kenny repaired his model in the time it took me to change a prop. Unfortunately, he missed something in the tail. It didn't pull out of a wingover and is now smithereens.
Man, that sucks, BAD. :(
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If, if and. If, I will donate $25.00. So sorry Kenny.
Blessings
Allen
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It's hard when this kind of thing happens. Maybe the Yatsinko's could loan him a plane? I would be easier if someone local had the machine instead of trying to ship one from here.
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What is the address to get a plane to him? When is the first day of competition flying? Is there enough time even with FedEx? If good I'm in for $25.
Go Team USA
Best, DennisT
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What is the address to get a plane to him? When is the first day of competition flying? Is there enough time even with FedEx? If good I'm in for $25.
Go Team USA
Best, DennisT
Is there a airplane to send?
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Did Orestes pack a spare plane?
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We have all lost planes.
Some have lost them at Worlds, some have lost them in practice.
This is indeed the sort of news you wish you did'nt have to read as I sip my coffee.
I'm utterly shattered for Kenny - 1st World Champs experience, Great to represent the USA on the Team, what a thrill.
Its difficult for many on here who are reading ( whom haven't had any exposure to international travel ) to understand how easily a mistake like this can occur. When you are out of your comfort zone, out of an environment that is familiar and under pressure to perform to expectations ; Pressure from travel, pressure you feel from your fellow fliers in the country, or pressure from a financial reason of flying, accommodation, ect.. Mistakes can happen easily.
None of us can sit here and say with certainty how he must be feeling at this stage.
Even if someone was to provide a backup plane for Kenny - the point is its not the one he built, designed trimmed and felt confident with that he could perform at his MAXIMUM level. Anything else will only be a compromise.
Rhiannon and I both feel a large sense of disapointment on his behalf .. words like sorry don't apease the pain he must be feeling.
:!
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I have a take apart plane used at the last WC's. That's good!
Just got off the phone with FexEx. Three problems:
1) It is now too late to get it there by Sat night to get it ready for processing on Sunday.
2) It would have only cost $1100 to get there by Monday sometime.
3) I am currently 5 hours away from that plane.
That's all BAD. :(
It doesn't look like I can get my plane there in time. Sorry I can't help out.
Really sorry to hear the news about the accident. I always have that in the back of my when I only bring one plane. I wish there was something I could say to make it easier for Kenny. However, I don't know what that is.
Kenny, just know that we all feel your pain over here.
Hope someone there can help out.
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I have a take apart plane used at the last WC's. That's good!
Just got off the phone with FexEx. Three problems:
1) It is now too late to get it there by Sat night to get it ready for processing on Sunday.
2) It would have only cost $1100 to get there by Monday sometime.
3) I am currently 5 hours away from that plane.
Crudbuckets. Each one of those three obstacles is on the huge side.
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I do not know about US Team Recovery Plan for Kenny? I think they should ask Yatsenko's if they have some spare with them for rent or so. I've phone conversation with Solomyanikov, from Ukraine, he is military guy, he could not go to WC , due to servicing duty, at the war situation in Ukraine, last group of people from his side gone Yesterday to Poland. He can't ship the model there. So, they must to find solution locally at the WC. Igor.
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Provided it fits it in the car, we will bring a third model.
We can tell you tomorrow morning early when we have packed.
So keep us posted if it's still needed or not
The Dutch
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/bruno-van-hoek-albums-diversen-picture109601-henk-bruno.jpg)
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This is terrible. So sorry for Kenny. Hope that a replacement is available, but he certainly will not be in his comfort zone. I assume that if he cannot fly it also ends the chances of a team championship.
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I think the offer by Paul and the Dutch team is a great display of sportsmenship and the kinda of people we have in the sport. I hope the Dutch offer works out and that Kenny can get comfortable with the ship.
The one other hope is since it is electric if supplies can be found they could put it back to flying condition with some new parts. With Keith there they have a shot. Keith is a really good crisis manager and builder and not having to paint it could work, I'm sure they are looking at that. The hardest part is for Kenny to relax and clear his head and let his teammates work the problem. We all know what its like to lose a ship we worked hard on and you need to chill for a bit. He as great teammates and I'm sure if there is a way to get him into the fight they will find it.
Best, DennisT
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I too hope that Kenny can get things worked out and get to fly. The offers that have been made is what makes this hobby/sport so great. I also hope Kenny can get through this.
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I'm chewing my fingernails off...
Hope it works out for Kenny and the team.
If there's a way Keith and the boys will find it.
Randy Cuberly
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Kaz Minato is there with a model,he is not flying in the worlds but is competing in European championships
The Yatsenkos will also have a spare model.
There are possibilities for Kenny.
Jose Modesto
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Kaz Minato is there with a model,he is not flying in the worlds but is competing in European championships
The Yatsenkos will also have a spare model.
There are possibilities for Kenny.
Jose Modesto
Talked to Orestes a few min ago and it sounded like they were trying very hard to come up with something. If Kenny can get his hands on one of Kaz's planes or a Yatsenko he will do just fine. Good luck guys!!!!!!
Derek
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These last few posts are very encouraging to me, I can't imagine how Kenny is feeling right now with the outpouring of love! Good for all those trying!!! A great reason to love stunt flyers!
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Everybody at the contest has been very helpful. Kenny's plan is to use Bruno's. Thanks, guys.
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Everybody at the contest has been very helpful. Kenny's plan is to use Bruno's. Thanks, guys.
Great news! Thanks Howard.
Derek
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Howard,
How are you doing in the World Cup?
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Everybody at the contest has been very helpful. Kenny's plan is to use Bruno's. Thanks, guys.
Thanks Bruno!.
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Correction: Henk's. You wouldn't want to fly one of mine, none of them is flyable at the moment. ;D
It will be the latest version of his 'Thundercat' design, the last development of his Cobra 60, with extended wingspan, side mounted engine.
The engine is a custom build ST 60 copy, it has better running properties. It likes 20 castor/5 nitro fuel.
What we don't have are a spare filler bottle and battery, so try to get hold of some.
Henk trims his a bit 'lazy' compared to my set ups, but nothing a bigger handle won't cure. No worries, we'll get this baby going!
Hopefully you guys have something to adapt the registration and of course blank FAI forms to make Kenny the temporary owner. But that's a minor point.
Now y'all sit back and relax until we turn up.... #^ H^^
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/bruno-van-hoek-albums-diversen-picture197119-img-3389.jpg)
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/bruno-van-hoek-albums-diversen-picture197120-img-3390.jpg)
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Great looking plane. I am sure Kenny and the entire USA team are overwhelmed
by your generosity. Now for Kenny to get down to flying!
Good luck guys, Steve
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Great news. I've still got some fingernails left!
I've competed in many, many activities over the years, Motorcycle Racing, a passel of Shooting Sports, Track and Field events, and most have good people...but CL Stunt stands out above all as the best and most generous bunch of folks I've encountered anywhere!
Randy Cuberly
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Correction: Henk's. You wouldn't want to fly one of mine, none of them is flyable at the moment. ;D
It will be the latest version of his 'Thundercat' design, the last development of his Cobra 60, with extended wingspan, side mounted engine.
The engine is a custom build ST 60 copy, it has better running properties. It likes 20 castor/5 nitro fuel.
What we don't have are a spare filler bottle and battery, so try to get hold of some.
Henk trims his a bit 'lazy' compared to my set ups, but nothing a bigger handle won't cure. No worries, we'll get this baby going!
Hopefully you guys have something to adapt the registration and of course blank FAI forms to make Kenny the temporary owner. But that's a minor point.
Now y'all sit back and relax until we turn up.... #^ H^^
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/bruno-van-hoek-albums-diversen-picture197119-img-3389.jpg)
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/bruno-van-hoek-albums-diversen-picture197120-img-3390.jpg)
You guys are so AWESOME!!!!! Thank you so much for helping our team in a time of extreme need!
Derek
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I've known Henk deJong for many years. He's always been a Class Act. This gesture just proves that.
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I must ad my thanks to that, you folks are the best!
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Man I hate to hear Kenny has to go through this....I consider him one of my closest flying buddies. Really feel for him as I know what a competitor he is and having crashed at a major contest (the Nats) I know just how bad that feels. I also know that with a good plane and a few practice flights Kenny can do just about whatever is necessary. So glad Henk could help out! What generosity! Go Team USA! #^
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That's tough for Kenny. Spend all that time, practice until you are dialed in on a plane, then this. I wish him good luck, he's had enough of bad luck.
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Looks like Howard is putting up some good flights in the World Cup. Keep it up!
Derek
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If someone could enlarge that picture I just posted it would be greatly appreciated. Busy at work right now...
Derek
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We can't thank our Netherland Friends enough. While I have not met Bruno, I have met Henk several tines and he is a great guy.
To take it further, this points out the closeness of the world wide stunt community. When something like this happens, we forget petty differences and help each other. This proves that the world is a much better place than the news media would like you to believe.
Looks like Howard is performing well. I hope that some one can make the scores bigger so we can read them.
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2014 FAI KUYAVIA WORLD CUP for control line model aircraft http://cl-wch2014.pl/unofficial-results/
F2B Włocławek 7 - 8.08.2014
Unofficial results
No: Surname and First name Junior /
Senior
National
id mark FAI Licence No:
B1 KAMINSKI Michał Senior POL POL3297 928,56 0,00 0,00 928,56
B2 RUSH Howard Senior USA USA18230 1 080,43 1 096,40 0,00 2 176,83
B3 WECLAWIAK Janusz Senior POL POL1855 946,10 0,00 0,00 946,10
B4 LAURI Malila Senior SUI SUI50833 1 019,90 0,00 0,00 1 019,90
B5 BURGER Igor Senior SVK SVK1149 1 106,96 0,00 0,00 1 106,96
B6 RODRIGES Bene Senior BRA BRA-899 976,80 0,00 0,00 976,80
B7 ALVES Rogerio Senior BRA BRA-7941 1 005,36 0,00 0,00 1 005,36
B8 SKRABALEK Jan Senior SVK SVK1146 1 054,60 0,00 0,00 1 054,60
B9 RUISL Vojtech Senior SVK SVK1154 1 006,06 0,00 0,00 1 006,06
B10 SCHREK Alexander Senior SVK SVK1150 1 094,86 1 124,66 0,00 2 219,52
B11 KORNMEIER Richard Senior GER GER2836 1 074,70 1 114,20 0,00 2 188,90
B12 BARNES Kevin Senior NZL NZL282 934,30 0,00 0,00 934,30
B13 TRAVNIK István Senior HUN HUN0077 276,86 0,00 0,00 276,86
B14 MEISL Kamil Senior CZE CZE1103 1 011,30 1 057,90 0,00 2 069,20
B15 NELL Loren Senior NZL NZL9969 977,30 0,00 0,00 977,30
B16 BORZECKI Krystian Senior POL POL4163 1 104,16 1 125,30 0,00 2 229,46
B17 MATSUMURA Kenji Senior JPN JPN34F130121 984,66 0,00 0,00 984,66
B18 MINATO Kaz Senior JPN JPN33F293 1 041,30 1 075,73 0,00 2 117,03
B19 MASUDA Syozo Senior JPN JPN34F304 978,66 0,00 0,00 978,66
B20 MURAMATSU Masahiro Senior JPN JPN46F136 1 065,00 0,00 0,00 1 065,00
B21 MASARU Hiki Senior JPN JPN31F649 1 051,16 1 097,26 0,00 2 148,42
B22 SALOMATIN Vladimir Senior RUS RUS3008 1 086,23 1 102,23 0,00 2 188,46
B23 YAKOVLEV Evgeny Senior RUS RUS0128 1 047,06 1 085,90 0,00 2 132,96
B24 TURCHENKO Mykola Senior UKR UKR589 1 035,53 1 077,90 0,00 2 113,43
B25 VANYAGIN Dmitry Senior RUS RUS02451 1 038,36 1 092,86 0,00 2 131,22
B26 DOBROVOLNY Radomil Senior CZE CZE1105 996,73 1 031,56 0,00 2 028,29
B27 RAZHETDINOV Dmitrii Senior RUS RUS0090A 922,71 0,00 0,00 922,71
B28 BUSHNEV Pavel Senior RUS RUS0150 1 005,30 0,00 0,00 1 005,30
B29 DZIUBA Paweł Senior POL POL1975 1 018,50 1 067,86 0,00 2 086,36
B33 BYELKO Sergiy Senior MDA MDA005 1 063,30 0,00 0,00 1 063,30
B40 YOKOYAMA Mitsuru Senior JPN JPN33F930 1 060,50 0,00 0,00 1 060,50
B41 YOKOYAMA Kazuya Senior JPN JPN31F130793 1 040,90 0,00 0,00 1 040,90
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This can't be all of it. Howard is the only one listed from the U.S. team. Our friends from Holland are not mentioned. I am sure that there are others not listed.
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This should work :!
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This can't be all of it. Howard is the only one listed from the U.S. team. Our friends from Holland are not mentioned. I am sure that there are others not listed.
Howard is the only team member entered in the world cup. F2B has not started yet
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OK, If I read this right, I come up with this. Is that how others read it??
1.Borzecki (POL) 2229.46
2. Shreck (CZE) 2229.46
3. Kornemier (GER) 2188.9
4. Salomatin (RUS) 2188.46
5. Rush (USA) 2176.83
6. Hiki (JPN) 2148.03
7. Banyagin (RUS) 2131.22
8. Kaz (JPN) 2117.03
9. Turchenko (UKR) 2113.43
10. Dziuba (POL) 2086.36
The scores being the total of two official flights, etc.
????
The format seemed to require a little interpretation. If I'm reading it right it looks like quite a few, including hard chargers such as Bene, Igor and Sergei Belko took no second flight which sort of implies bad winds or something.
Also, do we know if these are the final results??? Maybe there's a third round and some are waiting for better weather?
Ted
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This looks like the results from where they left off yesterday. We finished round two and flew all of round three today. score is the best two out of three.
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wheres the scores?
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...Reply #115... click link
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Still doesn't show third round?
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Got this off of facebook from Tania:
"Official results of World Cup in clas F2B
1. Igor Burger
2. Alexander Schrek
3. Krystian Borzecki"
Not sure where Howard ended up
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This looks like the results from where they left off yesterday. We finished round two and flew all of round three today. score is the best two out of three.
Thanks, Howard. I thought that might be the case. Good luck today. Are you having to wait long for scores?
Ted
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Pictures
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20143.html
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20144.html
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Pictures
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20143.html
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20144.html
I just browsed them quickly. Lauri Malila's Shark "14" is the best looking Yatsenko ever, at least until somebody does a spectacular finish on a Yatsenko Gee Bee R3.
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Take a look at Bene's New Shark. Ink,shine,logos great fit,And the flag on fin.
Jose
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Take a look at Bene's New Shark. Ink,shine,logos great fit,And the flag on fin.
Jose
This one?
https://flic.kr/p/omP9oU
Looks "pretty good" :D
That is from Claudia Kehnen's "2014 World Cup Wloclawek" gallery (Taken on August 7, 2014). I'm sure there's more photos coming.
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Here's an update. Today was a practice day. We flew on the official circles, although the wait time on the 1 1/2 practice circles was probably less. I got in two flights in about four hours. I'll take a nap and go back later while other folks are gorging on pierogies and potatoes.
Kenny is flying Kaz's airplane. Kaz has to go home because his brother is ill. Bene Rodrigues offered Kenny the use of a new Yatsenko plane, too.
I watched Igor practice. The wind was moderate--certainly not light. He did most maneuvers normally, then did his square eights upwind. They were good square eights, too. We told Keith, but he didn't believe it.
I stopped by the combat circle. Sasha Nadein, our Junior, was there. In 2000, she was the cutest baby we'd ever seen. Now she's 15 and a formidable combat flier. Josh Ellison was bitten by a radioactive spider last week. The bite got infected, and he couldn't make the trip, so Chuck Rudner took his place. Chuck's kid Mark is also on the team. The third member, Richard Stubblefield, will be 70 in October. Mark figures this is the most experienced US F2D team ever.
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Thanks for the update Howard! Sounds like thing might be progressing in a good way. Best to all three of you.
Will
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Howard, Good luck to you and rest of the guys in US Team! good news that Kenny has recovery model borrowed. Please say Many Thank you for Kaz! I will e mail him too, sad news he was quit from W/Championship, due his brother illness.
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I just browsed them quickly. Lauri Malila's Shark "14" is the best looking Yatsenko ever, at least until somebody does a spectacular finish on a Yatsenko Gee Bee R3.
That is true, or at least it was 1000 flights ago.
It flies better, too!
;) Lauri
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RESULTS
http://cl-wch2014.pl/unofficial-results/
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Howard, Good luck to you and rest of the guys in US Team! good news that Kenny has recovery model borrowed. Please say Many Thank you for Kaz! I will e mail him too, sad news he was quit from W/Championship, due his brother illness.
He wasn't entered in the World Champs, but intended to spend some time here as a supporter and tourist after the World Cup contest.
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Has anyone else noticed that the extended weather forecast at the WC area is light to moderate rain for all of next week?
I wonder what they consider moderate rain in Poland, and how accurate their weather forecasts are!
Randy Cuberly
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If anybody runs into Stanislaw Kubit over yonder, please say "Howdy" for me. ;D Steve
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He wasn't entered in the World Champs, but intended to spend some time here as a supporter and tourist after the World Cup contest.
Kaz is absolutely the best.
Brett
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Kaz is absolutely the best.
Brett
Yes he is!
Derek
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Ditto on Mr. Minato. Is his model the one he had at the NATS this year (Blue Max?) or one of his Hellcats? Best of luck to all. Sometimes the best performances come after dealing with a little adversity.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Ditto on Mr. Minato. Is his model the one he had at the NATS this year (Blue Max?)
The photos that Robert linked include a "K.Minato's BM Comp No.45".
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20144.html
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Today was processing. It was easy. They even accepted my painted-on FAI sticker. We practiced for awhile, including the Official Practice. They have mowed the official circles closer, so they now are approximately equivalent to the Walker Stunt Ranch surface, but with more plant species.
We had the opening ceremony this afternoon, which is sorta like the Entrance of the Jive Combat Team at the Golden State contest banquet, except it lasts longer. Orestes skipped the ceremony to fly stunt. I snuck out about halfway through.
A World Champion should be treated with respect and deference, I think, but there was a disturbing incident at this afternoon's practice. Igor Burger, the current F2B champion, was standing at the practice circle. He was not wearing a belt. I do not know why. Russell Bond, who appears here on Stunt Hangar, went behind the champion and depantsed him.
Tomorrow we fly official stunt. It's now 9:22 PM, and we don't know the flight order. I guess they had no idea who was coming to fly
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A World Champion should be treated with respect and deference, I think, but there was a disturbing incident at this afternoon's practice. Igor Burger, the current F2B champion, was standing at the practice circle. He was not wearing a belt. I do not know why. Russell Bond, who appears here on Stunt Hangar, went behind the champion and depantsed him.
Sounds about right.
Brett
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Thanks, everybody. I'll do my best.
I for one wish Howard and the team great flying weather and a great time with our Polock friends. I hope Howard will have some new GOOD MY FREIND. Your Really old German friend Leo Mehl
GOOD LUCK HOWARD. Just keep smiling because that will keep the competition off balance HB~> HB~> HB~> #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^
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Sounds about right.
Brett
You know those Aussies. Do anything for a laugh. ;D
How are Orestes and Kenny doing?
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Howard,
Just pretend that it IS the WSR. Remember the 95% rule, and turning the 2nd corner of the HG far enough.
Remember, smooth and 95%!!
Now, go get them!
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What Paul said about thinking it's the WSR is good. The Euro's fly against eachother in contests all summer and consider the WC as pretty much "just another contest". Our guys think it's a big deal and some are too nervous to fly to their maximum potential. That's what our FAI FF guys said, anyway. I think they made a good point.
Having participated in FAI FF contests for a long time, I came to the conclusion that a lot of guys tend to set their goals all wrong. They want to beat their teammates, they want to beat their flying buddy or their club members or their annoying adversary. WRONG! Set your goal as 1st Place, nothing more...or less. y1 Steve
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Was it Igor's polka dot shorts. Hard to resist depantsing a man known to wear polka dot shorts.
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WRONG! Set your goal as 1st Place, nothing more...or less. y1 Steve
Er -- I'm competing in Expert now. Gaining 1st place would either be accomplished by getting about 100 points more per flight, or by mass murder.
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What Paul said about thinking it's the WSR is good. The Euro's fly against eachother in contests all summer and consider the WC as pretty much "just another contest". Our guys think it's a big deal and some are too nervous to fly to their maximum potential. That's what our FAI FF guys said, anyway. I think they made a good point.
Having participated in FAI FF contests for a long time, I came to the conclusion that a lot of guys tend to set their goals all wrong. They want to beat their teammates, they want to beat their flying buddy or their club members or their annoying adversary. WRONG! Set your goal as 1st Place, nothing more...or less. y1 Steve
"The Euros fly against each other in contests all summer and consider the WC pretty much just anther contest". Probably a good enough reason to get it out of Europe for a few cycles. Maybe that's why site prep etc., has become so ho hum.
Dave
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They are spreading the four qualifying rounds over three days. Orestes flies twice today; Kenny and I fly once.
Corners are now in vogue. Igor and many others are turning tight radii. I am trying to behave.
The Chinese have LEDs on their airplanes. I showed mine to one of them and he grinned. Several guys have VGs or trip strips.
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Roger on the HG. Judges wrote notes on world cup score sheets. They thought my hourglass was narrow, and narrower on the bottom than on the top.
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Howard, had to laugh about the LED's - thanks.
Best of luck.
Curt
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Curt, did you get the bling I sent you?
Orestes and I flew our first flights at about the same time. Marilou thinks he got a 988, but can't remember for sure. His circle scores low. It was pretty windy when we flew, but a smooth wind like Muncie. I didn't account for the wind and did my triangles too short and had a bad bottom on one. My score indicates that the judges were watching. Triangles are expensive in F2B. I got a 1056. It started raining just after our flights, so we went for pierogies. Kenny and Orestes are up in half an hour, so I'll go back to the field shortly.
Revision A: Orestes got a 990-something.
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Yes I did, thought I sent you a note with a laugh and a thank you.
I have yet to run it by Randy, pretty sure I know his answer...
Curt
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Howard! Thank you for posting news! Good luck to you guys with weather and rest of the things ! I like your stand for model , simple, portable and useful.Did you bring it with you? About hourglass : Brett's theory , that top triangle locates closer to the judges so therefore it should be smaller by size , sound logical, but they do not like it in Europe. Some times it is pretty noticeable. Talk to Trostle. I think, you do not have to change any think there, compare what you used to establish on your practices, It is pretty much Stunt Lottery and you know that. Combination of little things may play positive or negative results! Just be yourself and try to put your goal to first place, try to see positive things around , and try to enjoy event! Again, Good luck to you guys there !!!!! Igor P.
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The day started out nice, then got windy, then got rainy. It was windy and raining when Orestes and Kenny flew this afternoon. Orestes flew on the circle on which I flew earlier and got a 1077. He seemed unaffected by rain and had his usual flat bottoms. Kenny got a 977 on the hard circle. These scores don't mean much until we see what everybody else got, and our recollections aren't necessarily accurate. Both the wind and rain let up after our guys flew, but the rain must have adversely affected about half the flights today.
Tomorrow looks pleasant, but with 3 to 4 m/s winds, according to http://www.meteoprog.pl/en/meteograms/Wloclawek/ . Orestes wanted to get some wind practice this evening, but the wind petered out and the rain returned.
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Howard! Thank you for posting news! Good luck to you guys with weather and rest of the things ! I like your stand for model , simple, portable and useful.Did you bring it with you? About hourglass : Brett's theory , that top triangle locates closer to the judges so therefore it should be smaller by size , sound logical, but they do not like it in Europe. Some times it is pretty noticeable.
??? That is not my theory, or at least I can't recall ever saying that. The hourglass *is* supposed to be narrower than the triangle, but both halves should be the same.
Brett
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I am trying to behave.
The end times are coming!
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So what's the purpose of the LED's on the Communist Chinese airplanes?
Are they "Eye targets" to help visually track the model through the maneuvers, or just ornaments?
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I am trying to behave.
[/quote]
This translates to: not asking more of himself or the airplane in corners. When trying "too hard", bounces can occur.
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??? That is not my theory, or at least I can't recall ever saying that. The hourglass *is* supposed to be narrower than the triangle, but both halves should be the same.
Brett
[/quote
No argue with you! They should look same size, from judge point.
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Er -- I'm competing in Expert now. Gaining 1st place would either be accomplished by getting about 100 points more per flight, or by mass murder.
So, you have a 'lectric Predator on the bench yet? You won't win Expert around here with a .46LA powered "Twistish" with a crappy landing gear. H^^ Steve
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The Chinese have LEDs on their airplanes. I showed mine to one of them and he grinned.
Yes, but do theirs light up when it is time to land??????
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No argue with you! They should look same size, from judge point.
My point above was that I don't quite see where the idea of flying the top and bottom differently could be attributed to me, as you did. I am a big proponent of flying it the way it is drawn and ignoring the parallax or perspective issues - since no one can actually fly well enough to put in these sorts of corrections.
Brett
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Yes, but do theirs light up when it is time to land??????
The Chinese LED's are light sources for a hacked Canon EOS eye tracking package slaved to a gyro controling yaw and ensuring pullouts at eye level. S?P
Kim.
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The Chinese LED's are light sources for a hacked Canon EOS eye tracking package slaved to a gyro controling yaw and ensuring pullouts at eye level. S?P
Kim.
Could be. I don't know what they do. They are directional, so I could only see them when the angle was right. They appeared to be strobed. The Chinese fliers are fairly young, so the lights probably don't serve the primary purpose of mine: to tell me whether I put in a charged battery.
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If they're young it must be to keep their attention on the plane, you know the old "SQUIRREL!!! syndrome.
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The Chinese LED's are light sources for a hacked Canon EOS eye tracking package slaved to a gyro controling yaw and ensuring pullouts at eye level. S?P
Kim.
I vote for immediate wide spread panic and heavy rumour generation! Clearly this is a PLOT! We should fear technology and must pass rules immediately to ensure these "mind control" lights are abolished! It's sad to hear of my friends Curt and Howard have fallen, enslaved!! I tell you!!!!
Or it could be nothing.... But there's no fun in that!!!
B
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It's sad to hear of my friends Curt and Howard have fallen, enslaved!! I tell you!!!!
B
It appears that you swallowed the blue pill Bruce!
Alas, you will never know the truth.
P
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I vote for immediate wide spread panic and heavy rumour generation! Clearly this is a PLOT! We should fear technology and must pass rules immediately to ensure these "mind control" lights are abolished! It's sad to hear of my friends Curt and Howard have fallen, enslaved!! I tell you!!!!
OK, for the next rules cycle:
14.14: Protective Headgear. For protection against radiation based mind control, all judges shall wear aluminum foil deflector beanies (AFDB) during any competition where electrically-powered aircraft are flown.
We don't really care if the pilots are mind-controlled, but we do care if the judges are mind-controlled. Note that this does not preclude mechanical mind control (i.e. arm twisting or physical threats), just the incipient electrical methods.
Good?
Brett
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It's all there in the TUT.
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What I have understood from blog of Russian team member. There two grass circles, very similar to each other with tree judges for each circle. One crew little hi in score another one, little low. All so they say : that, there no clear definition of round it is possible to make two flights in the morning in one circle or one flight, per each circle, at the evening. Every things are going in parallels and makes little confusing for them. There couple of guys running around the fields with positions and sequence of pilots etc. . Results can be puled from board by pilots 5 min after flight been done. Did not say about total community results on the board.
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14.14: Protective Headgear. For protection against radiation based mind control, all judges shall wear aluminum foil deflector beanies (AFDB) during any competition where electrically-powered aircraft are flown.
We might have needed that today.
In other news, a wing screw was coming out of Kaz's plane, and it had some serious dihedral in both directions when it turned. It held together, though, and Kenny got a good score. A screw had come loose. He refused my offer of Loctite.
I flew my best flight in perfect conditions this morning. It didn't get much score, although it was the best of the three of us on that circle so far. I have another flight today three hours hence. It has to be very good for me to be able to make the finals.
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Hey Howard and team, keep doing what you are doing. Remember a few champs ago when one of our top pilots noticed how judges were scoring flights. He says he tried to correct his flying but the judges went back to the style of flight he had been doing. You know humans aren't perfect and will change from day to day, especially judges. H^^
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We might have needed that today.
In other news, a wing screw was coming out of Kaz's plane, and it had some serious dihedral in both directions when it turned. It held together, though, and Kenny got a good score. A screw had come loose. He refused my offer of Loctite.
I flew my best flight in perfect conditions this morning. It didn't get much score, although it was the best of the three of us on that circle so far. I have another flight today three hours hence. It has to be very good for me to be able to make the finals.
I would highly recommend that Kenny put blue locktight on all four wing bolts and the two alignment bolts at the bottom trailing edge of the wing. I use it on my take apart planes and I am constantly checking the wing bolts. I check them after every three or four flights, it only takes a second and it is much better than flying with a loose wing.
Derek
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Hi all, I've been keeping an eye on things. I'm wishing the best and hoping for the US team.
Also curious if Bene Rodriguez from Brazil is in the mix. I saw his name in one of the early score sheets that was posted. Good luck.
Rusty
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where were the sheets posted
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where were the sheets posted
The actual sheet was too small to read but Sparky re-typed it in post #115. It's 4 days old now.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36090.msg368870.html#msg368870
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The actual sheet was too small to read but Sparky re-typed it in post #115. It's 4 days old now.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36090.msg368870.html#msg368870
That's old news.
Those are the World Cup results, not the World Championships results.
I have not been able to see the World Champs results yet.
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Oops, beg yer pardon, bad info.
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http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_2nd_round.pdf
The round 2 results are posted.
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http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_2nd_round.pdf
The round 2 results are posted.
Thanks John!
Derek
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When do we stop sending world teams to a east European championships.these are no longer world champs these are european championships.
Maybe a little harsh in my comments.
Can't wait to see the championship in austrailia.
Jose Modesto
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Link to results . i think it is right one. http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_2nd_round.pdf
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where were the sheets posted
This is it. I think it is right one.
http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_2nd_round.pdf
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That's old news.
Those are the World Cup results, not the World Championships results.
I have not been able to see the World Champs results yet.
This is it. I think it is right one. Igor.P.
http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_2nd_round.pdf
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When do we stop sending world teams to a east European championships.these are no longer world champs these are european championships.
Maybe a little harsh in my comments.
Can't wait to see the championship in austrailia.
Jose Modesto
Yep, that is the reason for the low turnout at the team trials. You might accidently make the team and have to go.
Derek
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Don't give up hope yet. There are still two rounds to go, and the weather is not too bad!
Remember, in 2008 I was 42nd at this same point. I recovered enough to finish 6th and secure the team trophy.
IT'S NOT OVER YET!!!
Each of our team members needs a good score on circle 2. This WILL decide their fate.
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Yep, that is the reason for the low turnout at the team trials. You might accidently make the team and have to go.
:)
Even at my barely-500-point level, I've had the conversation with myself:
"Maybe when I get better I'll do the team trials thing."
"Nope -- what if I win?"
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if u win ,u will be in for the greatest feeling u will ever have ,i tried half hartedly for 12 years to make the F2C team, then i found a pilot that was willing to fly from Pa to FL once a month to practice ,we made two consecutive teams and i can tell u all the hard work was worth it ,to be standing there with all the US team members in Red White and Blue as they play the National anthum will bring tears to your eyes. i still remember the first time.i dint care how many events u have won when u are in that circle for your first race ,your knees are weak and your hands are shaking..u are lucky if u can hit the prop when they say go . once in the air u are flying with the best in the world . u can hear the people u have just met cheering for u when u make a good pit,and you can hear the groans when u brake a prop on your last pit when u have a good race going.
it is this feeling that keeps PW BW TF BH and others to keep spending their own $$ to go over there and compete . everyone should have the chance to do it at least once Bob Whitney i hope this isnt out of place here
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Don't give up hope yet. There are still two rounds to go, and the weather is not too bad!
Remember, in 2008 I was 42nd at this same point. I recovered enough to finish 6th and secure the team trophy.
IT'S NOT OVER YET!!!
Each of our team members needs a good score on circle 2. This WILL decide their fate.
I agree, in 2010 it was my last flight that got me into the finals. Keep up the good work guys.
Derek
Derek
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I think Weird Al said it best Brett...
EricV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk&feature=player_detailpage&list=RDw-0TEJMJOhk
OK, for the next rules cycle:
14.14: Protective Headgear. For protection against radiation based mind control, all judges shall wear aluminum foil deflector beanies (AFDB) during any competition where electrically-powered aircraft are flown.
We don't really care if the pilots are mind-controlled, but we do care if the judges are mind-controlled. Note that this does not preclude mechanical mind control (i.e. arm twisting or physical threats), just the incipient electrical methods.
Good?
Brett
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My hat is off to Kenny doing so well with a borrowed plane. That is some recovery!
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OK, for the next rules cycle:
14.14: Protective Headgear. For protection against radiation based mind control, all judges shall wear aluminum foil deflector beanies (AFDB) during any competition where electrically-powered aircraft are flown.
We don't really care if the pilots are mind-controlled, but we do care if the judges are mind-controlled. Note that this does not preclude mechanical mind control (i.e. arm twisting or physical threats), just the incipient electrical methods.
Good?
Brett
Read this first!
http://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/)
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I think : it was warm up for judges, to situate where every body are, to get better idea and experience , for future rounds. Things may change better for US team, and I religiously believe that !!!! Weather may be different too. All the efforts of our guys not supposed to be fade off. They will show their better sides. main battle up front. I keep my fingers crossing!!!!!! Igor.P.
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Word from HMR was that he scored a 1077 on panel A second flight.
Didn't hear about Kenny or Orestes.
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Some Pictures if you will able to open those? Each pilot should do 2 flights in circle A and 2 flights in circle 2. The best result from each circle they putting together , and that is what points for round . There no Time Judge, each judge has Stop Watch and has its own time upon signal from pilot.
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20149.html
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Word from HMR was that he scored a 1077 on panel A second flight.
Didn't hear about Kenny or Orestes.
Great! A solid score on panel B and he should be in good shape for the finals. I am sure that Orestes and Kenny will do well too.
Derek
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Great! A solid score on panel B and he should be in good shape for the finals. I am sure that Orestes and Kenny will do well too.
Derek
I'm guessing that he will need a 1020 to 1030 to make the cut. It is do-able!
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It's not difficult for me to believe that the Europeans have some excellent fliers and competitors. It's a little difficult to swallow that there are 24 or 25 of them better than our guys....I'm not one to criticize judges but this does seem a little MUCH!
Randy Cuberly
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Does anyone know if those COOL four bladed Carbon props like the one on Kaz's airplane that Kenny is flying are available to ordinary humans?
Randy Cuberly
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Does anyone know if those COOL four bladed Carbon props like the one on Kaz's airplane that Kenny is flying are available to ordinary humans?
Randy Cuberly
Randy I believe those are Brian Eathers. He made me some early this year and I am thinking he is the only current source for competitive 4 bladers right now. Might be another source. Somebody was/is making some clones I heard.
Dave
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It's not difficult for me to believe that the Europeans have some excellent fliers and competitors. It's a little difficult to swallow that there are 24 or 25 of them better than our guys....I'm not one to criticize judges but this does seem a little MUCH!
Randy Cuberly
Without "Them" there would not be enough people to hold a World Championships.
Without " Them" there would not be a site for this years contest. (or many others)
"Them" work harder than "You" (make book on it)
I am sure the judges will read your post and do their best to accommodate "You"
Would you care for a glass of water ??
Kim.
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My hat is off to Kenny doing so well with a borrowed plane. That is some recovery!
Mine also.... now tighten the bolts!
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It's a little difficult to swallow that there are 24 or 25 of them better than our guys....!
Randy Cuberly
Why is that "hard" to swallow?
Many of those 25 have been at it a LONG time.
What is special about our guys?
It might be more a question of what they are presenting and what those judges are looking for!
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Why is that "hard" to swallow?
Many of those 25 have been at it a LONG time.
What is special about our guys?
It might be more a question of what they are presenting and what those judges are looking for!
Hi Paul,
Yeah, I understand all that! It still seems like it happens more in Eastern Rurope than anywhere else.
I don't personally know Kenny or Orestes...I do know Howard and He is a special Guy and I guess I'm just fretting for him! Probably a lot more than he is!
Maybe just thinking out loud...nothing to worry about.
Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
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Without "Them" there would not be enough people to hold a World Championships.
Without " Them" there would not be a site for this years contest. (or many others)
"Them" work harder than "You" (make book on it)
I am sure the judges will read your post and do their best to accommodate "You"
Would you care for a glass of water ??
Kim.
Hi Kim,
If I was being my "old Self" I would simply tell you to go Blow It out your....
But I'm not going to do that...because I'm a nice guy. I'm not criticizing the judges or the organizers, just the circumstances.
Don't pretend there is no difference in the way "we and they" do things! Who is right I have no idea, but I do wish things could be more common between us!
I would say that I've been doing this a long time also and have a right to express an opinion without your sarcasm and condemnation!
Randy Cuberly
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Of those "25 Europeans" (actually 22 of the top 25), there are 3 Chinese, 2 Japanese and a Canadian.
Maybe they're just really good at it?
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Randy I believe those are Brian Eathers. He made me some early this year and I am thinking he is the only current source for competitive 4 bladers right now. Might be another source. Somebody was/is making some clones I heard.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the info. I'll contact him.
Randy Cuberly
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Of those "25 Europeans" (actually 22 of the top 25), there are 3 Chinese, 2 Japanese and a Canadian.
Maybe they're just really good at it?
Yeah...I guess so! Since everyone seemed to miss the point I apologize for having an opinion!
Battered Beaten and Sorry!
Randy Cuberly
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It's not difficult for me to believe that the Europeans have some excellent fliers and competitors. It's a little difficult to swallow that there are 24 or 25 of them better than our guys....I'm not one to criticize judges but this does seem a little MUCH!
Randy Cuberly
You have to remember that these are teams made up of the 3 best pilots from each country. (Or in some case two best and one "substitute" ;))
Until you have been to a W/C and spent some time at the practice circle it is hard to grasp how many good fliers there are out there.
This goes for every category.
I have been hopping back and forth between F2D and F2B so have not seen as many flights as I would have liked, but in one I saw Howard was flying his bottoms a bit too high.
And Kenny is flying a borrowed model.
Weather is also a big factor in such long rounds. I had a very nice window after a storm had rolled through for my second flight on circle A and improved from 868 to 964.
Also not sure why you are picking the number as "24 or 25". Orestes is in 19th.
Pat MacKenzie
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Pat,
Thanks for explaining all that to me.
Since I've only been doing this for 63 years it's nice to have someone more experienced tell me how it works!
I give up! I'm sure it will all work out in the end. I will be quite happy when Igor wins again He's a fine gentleman and an incredible flier!
Some time before too long the WC will be here in the US again.
Times change!
Randy Cuberly
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Can somebody please convince Igor to fly with his fingers crossed? That might help our guys... ;) Steve
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I like your stand for model , simple, portable and useful.Did you bring it with you?
It's a stool that Marilou bought, with a swimming-pool foam noodle tied to it. A little teetery, but it works.
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I would highly recommend that Kenny put blue locktight on all four wing bolts and the two alignment bolts at the bottom trailing edge of the wing.
Kenny wanted to keep Kaz's airplane clean. He didn't want to put stuff on Kaz's airplane that Kaz didn't use.
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I'm not criticizing the judges or the organizers, just the circumstances.
Don't pretend there is no difference in the way "we and they" do things! Who is right I have no idea, but I do wish things could be more common between us!
I think the format is flawed, and that the people who put on European and World Champs don't know how to put on a stunt contest very well. For example, they have one guy pull testing and two separate pull test areas for two circles on the outside of the circles:
|OO|
Having only two circles for 74 contestants makes for long rounds and adds an element of luck.
The organizers figured that two circles and one practice circle suffice, and that they needed only to mow three donuts out of the dandelions and clover, and only have the circles ready by the day of the contest. Given that initial condition, though, they have tried hard to make things better. They brought out a firetruck from town, wet down the circles, and rolled them. Somebody complained about dust from a road blowing on the combat circles, so they now have a truck continuously sprinkling the road with water. When it rains, the truck driver takes a nap.
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I have been hopping back and forth between F2D and F2B so have not seen as many flights as I would have liked, but in one I saw Howard was flying his bottoms a bit too high.
Keith saw that, too. I'm working on it.
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I will be quite happy when Igor wins again He's a fine gentleman and an incredible flier!
Yep, not to mention being the life of the party. He usually practices all day, but disappeared yesterday to rebuild the airplane that Keith Renecle crashed.
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Do they have Mac Donalds ? ;) LL~
for World Champs PRECISION Aerobatics , in the 21st century - wonderous electronic contrivances would take
any ' human factor ' out of any scoring . After All its about accuracy - not the slickest paint job or number of stars .
E.P.I. would be for %ages of ' inaccuracy ' over given correct track . Would make it a whole new ballpark . and these days
inexpensive , light & ' High Tech . After All - theres the fancy clocks for timing in T/R & Speed ? Bickering enough in T/R
judgeing , usually .
Only real ' visual ' judgeing could be on video of flights . Virtually impossible to accurately ' inspect ' manoeuvres as flown ,
only get a general idea of the neatness & tidiness of the ' presentation .Not enough time in the day , or minute - to evaluate
say the 17 sides and 18 corners , overlaps and angles in the Square Eight - instantaeneously , for average mortals . :P
Whats the go in full size international aerobatics these days ? ? VD~
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Having a look at the score from the first 2 rounds.
There seem to be many interesting points :
The score spread :
1 through 2 = 53 points
2 through 12 = 61 points.
12 through 28 = 71 points.
The question really needs to be asked : What are they placing emphasis on ? After seeing many many stunt contests, usually the guy who is flying the best 1.2.3 wins the event.
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Kenny wanted to keep Kaz's airplane clean. He didn't want to put stuff on Kaz's airplane that Kaz didn't use.
I understand that. I would advise checking the bolts every couple flights. I am sure that he is already doing that now...
I am happy to see Kenny doing so well with a borrowed plane, it must be a combination of great skill and that awesome PA 75 in the nose. ;)
Derek
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Randy,
I've come to the conclusion that guys in Europe just look at the event differently than we in the US do. It's not intentional (I don't think), but what they look for, what constitutes a good flight is just different there. Maybe it's the FAI scoring system or something, but they seem to just look at it differently. I've seen videos of European flyers and told that the flight was awesome. I watch it and see all kinds of things that would garner low scores here. I imagine they look at what we consider a great flight and do the same thing. I think it's just a difference in viewpoint.
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Having only two circles for 74 contestants makes for long rounds and adds an element of luck.
And that is much better that it used to be! There used to be ONE circle for qualifying. A round would stretch for several days. Talk about changing conditions and luck of the draw!!! Problem is most sites in Europe can't accommodate the extra circles for this new format.
It needs to go back to Sweden once again. It was held on an air base and we had access to the runways. Plenty of practice circles, but they still used only one qualifying circle. It would be easy to have two qualifying circles there.
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Keep us posted on the Team's results today.
Best of luck.
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Randy,
I've come to the conclusion that guys in Europe just look at the event differently than we in the US do. It's not intentional (I don't think), but what they look for, what constitutes a good flight is just different there. Maybe it's the FAI scoring system or something, but they seem to just look at it differently. I've seen videos of European flyers and told that the flight was awesome. I watch it and see all kinds of things that would garner low scores here. I imagine they look at what we consider a great flight and do the same thing. I think it's just a difference in viewpoint.
Hi Randy,
Yeah, I agree completely with what you said. It's actually the point I was trying to make last night but guess I got started off by sounding critical (actually I guess I intended to be a little critical) because I was tired and being a curmudgeon anyway, that certainly affects my disposition. Then it seems like several people insisted on telling me how wrong and "stupid" I am. I spent the whole day nursing and rewriting a recalcitrant analysis program that wouldn't agree that the world is round and was in a mood to tell the world to go straight to ...uhhh well you know!
At any rate I very strongly feel that a WC should be flown on common ground rules and it seems to me that as mentioned earlier by someone else the current framework seems to be an Eastern European Championship, that they simply let those who wish, compete in! It wasn't meant to be critical of any particular people or countries.
Why does there have to be two different scoring systems in the world. Either the FAI should adopt ours or we should adopt theirs. Personally I don't like the FAI system because it's more complicated than necessary and that tends to lead to more errors in scoring. Simple math...more things to judge and score equals more potential errors and room for personal grievances to creep in.
At any rate I apologize to anyone I may have offended personally. That wasn't my intention!
Randy Cuberly
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Unofficial results show Orestes 9th Howard 22nd Kenny 25th. Qualifying is over.
Derek
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Unofficial results show Orestes 9th Howard 22nd Kenny 25th. Qualifying is over.
Derek
uuuhhhhh! And?
Randy Cuberly
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uuuhhhhh! And?
Randy Cuberly
They take the top 15...
Personally I think the team has done great so far. Few people realize what an intense and long contest this is, it is just as much of an endurance race is it is a precision contest. Also, as some have stated, being that far from home in an unfamiliar place makes it tough to get comfortable. Howard and Kenny being first time team members and first time WC participants makes it even harder to get scored well.
Great job guys and good luck Orestes.
Derek
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Congrats to all our team and give em hell Orestes !!!
Dave
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Good luck to the whole C/L group as well.
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Thanks for representing us there Howard, Kenny, and Orestes.
I know Howard and Kenny must be feeling down right now. I know you both gave it all you had. Hard to ask for any more.
Go get them Orestes.
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Howard and Kenny,
Thanks for a tremendous effort. No one can top that!
Hey Howard...the pressure's off...Have some fun!
Orestes...You're the MAN...Go show them how it's done!
Randy Cuberly
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Being in Top 25 out of - What? - 69 isn't exactly bad for a first effort at World Championships.
I don't know the who is who of stunt but recognize many Names in top 15 who have been at it a while - and always fly by the International rules and scoring.
Nobody from my country is participating, but I'll let Lauri Malila (Switzerland, qualified 38) represent. I believe his Finnish is still quite fluent ;)
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A big congrats to Howard and Kenny even though they didn't make the top 15. The unofficial scoring shows that the point spread between Howard's 22nd and 15th place was just slightly over 11 points. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Well done and look forward to seeing you at the Raider Round-Up next month.
Alan
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Thanks, guys. Now I have time to post some pictures and fill in some details if I can remember them.
They posted all the scores. We could see what judges gave whom what scores. I don't think the European judges were unfair to us. Looking at the guys who finished ahead of me, I see some mighty good stunt fliers. I was a little bummed after my first flight on one circle, but in the end it looks like the judges sorted us out pretty well.
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Howard, you are always the connsumate gentleman. Thanks for representing us, and please pass that on to Kenny as well. Going by your last post I think you both were top rate flyers for us.
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Howard, you are always the connsumate gentleman. Thanks for representing us, and please pass that on to Kenny as well. Going by your last post I think you both were top rate flyers for us.
What Will said! y1
Bob Hunt
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I am not sure about the "gentleman", but Howard and the rest of the team should be proud for a job well done.
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I'm totally impressed by this years team! Two first time members (one with a borrowed model, no less) in the top 25 and within a handful of points of the top 10 is totally awesome. Plus, Orestes is performing solid as usual and made the top 15. Yes!!
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Howard, you are always the connsumate gentleman. Thanks for representing us, and please pass that on to Kenny as well. Going by your last post I think you both were top rate flyers for us.
Ditto ... THanks to Howard Orestes and Kenny for representing the U.S.
Good job guys !
Randy
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Thank you Howard Kenny and Orestes for putting in the time money and work to go represent the USA at the WCs.
Myself and many others are proud to call you guys our 2014 Team!
Orestes, go out there and show 'em how its done!! We are pulling for you!!
Doug
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Way to groove boys...way to groove. What an honor to get to go.
Shug
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I second all the congratulations for a job well done by Kenny and Howard. Howard is no newbie to WC competition and I couldn't agree more with his assessment of the fliers from other countries who we haven't the pleasure to see fly here but who really know how the stuff is supposed to look.
If there is any down side to flying across the pond in a "very" major competition, it is the need to adapt to flying sites that aren't designed for stunt heaven as is our Muncie site. I feel for Kenny and his thrown prop and the deleterious impact it had on his whole experience. I've been there and done that and know full well how difficult it is to come back once...let alone twice as he had to do. Thanks to the good fellowship of Kaz (after being around him for so many years I wouldn't have expected less) Kenny's ultimate performance was nothing short of outstanding. After judging him at the Nats last year and seeing him make the team I had great good hopes for his competitiveness. Although the manner in which he competed was different than he had planned, the devotion to excel, whatever the demands, was obvious and the outcome a testament to his dedication. You've earned your stripes, Mr. Stevens. Well done.
After watching Howard for many years as he grew more mature and left the foam and fas-cal behind him I expected a good performance and that's what we got. As many have pointed out, eleven points out of more than 2000 is a paltry sum and well within the scoring "noise" factor. That those eleven will keep him idle come the finals is no disgrace. I've watched a number of the others in the same boat fly and know full well that the competition was keen to access the final fifteen. I've no doubt that Howard will be back and will make it clear that his talent deserves another few flights.
Orestes had the great advantage of experience with the whole rigamarole and, as one would expect, took advantage of what he has learned in the past. He will certainly be competitive with the best and I anxiously await the outcome. Show 'em how it's supposed to be done, Orestes.
Re judging in Europe. My experience has been that the judges there, as they are here, want to be as objective and fair as possible. The suggestion that they are familiar with a lot of the fliers who both attend contests in Europe regularly and then show up as team members for their countries at the WCs is absolutely true. I don't, however, feel there is a conscious bias and good flying, ultimately, usually comes home to roost at the top. The best example I can point at for that was in Budapest several years ago when Ryan Young was our Junior flier. Of course, none of the judges had seen him before and his first flights were competitive but not at the top of the heap. Ryan was both dedicated and committed, however, and refused to back down or become discouraged. Every round his scores got higher and higher and, in the final analysis, his superiority on finals day was recognized pretty much unanimously as he won the Junior World Championship over several excellent European Juniors.
The bottom line is that--as we all know--stunt is subjectively evaluated by human beings, almost all of whom are doing their absolute best (I'm convinced) to be as objective as possible as they do the very difficult task of entering numbers into boxes that aren't plucked digit by digit from a stop watch. It is absolutely predictable that they will tend to score familiar top fliers well from the get go and for the next fifty or so fliers might at first be, frankly, sifting the wheat from the chaff. Thus the beauty of formats that require repeated observation of the best fliers as they get sifted through the grinder of multiple flights with fewer and fewer survivors. Ultimately, they'll likely come up with the right fifteen in pretty much the right order.
It's hard work and they should get credit for doing it.
Ted
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If there is any down side to flying across the pond in a "very" major competition, it is the need to adapt to flying sites that aren't designed for stunt heaven as is our Muncie site.
We had some information about the site from a member of the Canadian helicopter team who flew here last year. Based on that I whacked out a rough-ground gear from a slab of carbon I had around. That proved valuable. I had also switched from a 13" prop to an 11" prop, which gave some extra ground clearance, so I didn't have a problem. We stationed one guy just ahead of the airplane to pull the plug in case of a noseover, which can be disastrous for an electric airplane, but it didn't help in Kenny's case where the wimpy quadrotor prop broke when it hit terrain.
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Quick update. I want to get back before Orestes's second finals flight. Very windy this morning with rain for awhile. It was as windy as the notorious Nats top-20 day when only seven of us finished flights. I would say it separated the men from the boys, but the boys (the Juniors) flew first and did just fine. Some guys were flying pretty accurate stunt despite the conditions. I think you either need a pipe or an electric with autothrottle to have a chance for much score, though. The best I saw was Juri Vejmola, who got approx. 1024. Orestes did OK, but had a little more trouble with the wind and got a 1005, according to Marilou. Igor quit after the inside rounds because his cowl fell off. He must do well in the next two flights to keep the championship that everybody thought was a slam dunk.
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We had some information about the site from a member of the Canadian helicopter team who flew here last year. Based on that I whacked out a rough-ground gear from a slab of carbon I had around. That proved valuable. I had also switched from a 13" prop to an 11" prop, which gave some extra ground clearance, so I didn't have a problem. We stationed one guy just ahead of the airplane to pull the plug in case of a noseover, which can be disastrous for an electric airplane, but it didn't help in Kenny's case where the wimpy quadrotor prop broke when it hit terrain.
I was somehow volunteered to do an engineering evaluation of the safety of quadcopter props for PAMPA. This may obviate the need.
Brett
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I was somehow volunteered to do an engineering evaluation of the safety of quadcopter props for PAMPA. This may obviate the need.
Brett
I agree, after seeing Matt Newman's prop and now hearing about Kenny's I would hope that everyone is smart enough to quit using them.
Derek
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There are a couple of links in this thread somewhere that were sent to me showing photos. Those links were sent to me to post.
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20145.html
http://www.f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/polsha-20146.html
They came off SSW and one of the guys who thinks he invented the internet is whining about giving credit so Al Gore here is your credit. SY
News flash just because you find a link doesn't mean you need to be given credit. This person has deleted his own account here and now trying to stir the pot elsewhere.
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Go this from Tania from facebook. Here are the scores after the first two rounds.
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Here are the scores for flights 1 and 2 of the finals.
Just so I don't get accused of not giving credit this pic came from Taniq Uzunova's Facbook page.
Derek
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Here are the scores for flights 1 and 2 of the finals.
Looks like the coronation is back on track.
Brett
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Looks like Matt and I saw it at the same time.
Derek
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Just so I don't get accused of not giving credit this pic came from Taniq Uzunova's Facbook page.
Derek
Its only one guy who's whining anyway. LL~ I dont think they can file a DMCA on you for posting a link to a page you didn't even make.
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Looks like the coronation is back on track.
Brett
By the look's of those scores I would say Igor is on time. Unless near disaster happens.
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Its only one guy who's whining anyway. LL~ I dont think they can file a DMCA on you for posting a link to a page you didn't even make.
It seems pretty silly if you ask me. If anyone deserves credit it would be the person who took and posted all the pictures.
Derek
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And 3rd round starts 09:00 local time on Friday...
Prizegiving and Closing Ceremony 16:00 - 19:30 local time. I think that means morning in USA.
Looks like they are posting results pretty promptly on the website: http://cl-wch2014.pl/results/
The Juniors are looking pretty consistent, so far, in the finals.
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It seems pretty silly if you ask me. If anyone deserves credit it would be the person who took and posted all the pictures.
Derek
..and he is Vladimir Salomatin, Russia. Spasibo mate!
L
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I was somehow volunteered to do an engineering evaluation of the safety of quadcopter props for PAMPA.
You think you know how? Are you going to spin up everybody's prop to see if it passes some criterion or just ban props made by somebody we don't know like we do airplanes by our "BOM" rule. PAMPA should stick to being a newsletter.
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Looks like the coronation is back on track.
Sounds like the chronic losers who complain about the guys who win the US Nats. I was there today watching. I don't think anybody present disputes who the best flier is.
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Weather improved for the second round and was pretty nice when Orestes flew the last flight of the round. Tomorrow's forecast is for 3m/second winds, so the first round will be the throwaway round for anybody in contention. Disregard the Total column and rankings. Orestes was fifth in the second round and can move up with the last round tomorrow. He flew a couple dozen flights tonight and is flying really well.
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Howard.was anyone in stunt drug tested at the wolds?
Can't wait for your photos
Thanks for a great effort.
Your reporting while competing was special and greatly appreciated.
Jose Modesto
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Sounds like the chronic losers who complain about the guys who win the US Nats. I was there today watching. I don't think anybody present disputes who the best flier is.
It does? How so? He was way out ahead in qualifying, too.
Brett
p.s. I have also been in the position of what seemed to be a pretty comfortable lead on Orestes - and then he caught me in the last flight of the day by 1.25 points! Never count him out!
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I was somehow volunteered to do an engineering evaluation of the safety of quadcopter props for PAMPA. This may obviate the need.
Brett
It would only make sense. The quadcopter is designed to hover and fly in forward and backward flight. They are not designed for the load a full sized stunt plane will put on them.
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It would only make sense. The quadcopter is designed to hover and fly in forward and backward flight. They are not designed for the load a full sized stunt plane will put on them.
Certainly not intended to survive a prop hit into the ground, apparently. The problem with doing any sort of analytical evaluation is you don't really know what the parameters are.
Brett
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I have tried those props and I have some still but they are not as efficient as a APC the .02 CF vial on them.
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Certainly not intended to survive a prop hit into the ground, apparently. The problem with doing any sort of analytical evaluation is you don't really know what the parameters are.
That prop was being used as a plow. An IC engine would have stopped. Another reason to ban electrics.
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I have also been in the position of what seemed to be a pretty comfortable lead on Orestes - and then he caught me in the last flight of the day by 1.25 points! Never count him out!
That was the point of our practice last evening. Many joules were discharged.
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It would only make sense. The quadcopter is designed to hover and fly in forward and backward flight. They are not designed for the load a full sized stunt plane will put on them.
Let's see some analysis. Include the flips that those folks do.
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Let's see some analysis. Include the flips that those folks do.
How about just suggesting that people don't use them in stunt based on at least two known failures?
However, I would lean towards your "ban electric" proposal more.
Derek
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How about just suggesting that people don't use them in stunt based on at least two known failures?
What would you use as a criterion? That it's sold as a quadrotor prop? So which props would be banned and why? Let's see some science. A 13" wooden prop would have done the same thing, as would most other props. It was digging up turf, some of which got slung in my face. Orestes has used these props in hundreds of flights. I've used them, too.
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Unofficial top five!
1 Igor Burger
2 Richie Kornmeier
3 Jun Yang
4 Andre Yatsenko
5 Orestes Hernandez
Great job Guys!!!!
Derek
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What would you use as a criterion? That it's sold as a quadrotor prop? A 13" wooden prop would have done the same thing, as would most other props. It was digging up turf, some of which got slung in my face. Orestes has used these props in hundreds of flights. I've used them, too. Two failures? Holy cow, call out OSHA and the NTSA.
Did you see the one Matt Newman had at the Nats? No prop strike, just standard use. He took it of and it was starting to fail where the blade meets the hub. I took one look at and knew that I would have never bolted it on one of my planes to begin with. I am just saying, use a little common sense.
Hey if you want a blade sticking in your eye, that is your decision.
I do not use that stuff so I have no idea what is available or how many different manufacturers there are.
Derek
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Unofficial top five!
1 Igor Burger
2 Richie Kornmeier
3 Jun Yang
4 Andre Yatsenko
5 Orestes Hernandez
Great job Guys!!!!
Derek
Score sheets http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_3rd_round_fly_off.pdf
Oops I forgot to give credit to the poster Al Gore. (How dumb is that?) Sheets courtesy of the FAI
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There was a variety of weather. It started calm, but with some bizarre thermal activity or something that blew in unexpected directions causing loops to drift on the unaware. Then a nice light breeze came up, which was when Orestes flew. The wind picked up after that about the time that Andrei Yatsenko and Alexandre Gauthiere flew. Alex Schrek also got some wind, which might have kept him out of his usual number two position. Then it rained for a spell and they took a break with one flight to go. The last guy, Muramatu-san, flew in pretty nice conditions. I watched most of the final flights. There were very few flaws. It was really good stunt. The days of Ping Pong, when you couldn't tell the squares from the rounds, are over.
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Thanks, Sparky. I figured you guys would know before I could get back to the hotel to post the outcome. I didn't take detailed notes, but that's about the order I expected.
Orestes mentioned to Yuri Yatsenko that he had flown 200 flights in the last month. "Not enough," said Yuri. "Igor has flown 2000."
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Thanks, Sparky. I figured you guys would know before I could get back to the hotel to post the outcome. I didn't take detailed notes, but that's about the order I expected.
Orestes mentioned to Yuri Yatsenko that he had flown 200 flights in the last month. "Not enough," said Yuri. "Igor has flown 2000."
Your welcome Howard. Despite what SY thinks I am on top of things thanks to Al Gore's internet.
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I see Sergiy Byelko placed 15th. I beat him once at a California contest, so I figured that I'm better than he. After watching him closely today, I have concluded that I'm not. I have a lot of work to do to make the finals in this contest.
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Between 2nd and 6th: 14 points. Between 1st and 2nd: 87 points. :o
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Orestes mentioned to Yuri Yatsenko that he had flown 200 flights in the last month. "Not enough," said Yuri. "Igor has flown 2000."
200 flights in a month? that is more than I fly in 4 years. I am not sure if I have flown 2000 flights in my entire life.
Derek
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Congrats to Orestes for a fine job! Now for all three guys to start the deceleration from the hectic schedule. Thanks to all three members for their devotion to both the U.S. and to our sport. Ya done good!
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Congrats to Orestes for a fine job! Now for all three guys to start the deceleration from the hectic schedule. Thanks to all three members for their devotion to both the U.S. and to our sport. Ya done good!
I'm pretty sure Orestes still has a chance for gold, silver or bronze. Or is it over?
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What would you use as a criterion? That it's sold as a quadrotor prop? So which props would be banned and why? Let's see some science. A 13" wooden prop would have done the same thing, as would most other props. It was digging up turf, some of which got slung in my face. Orestes has used these props in hundreds of flights. I've used them, too.
how about a carbon copy of the Quadrotor props
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Did you see the one Matt Newman had at the Nats? No prop strike, just standard use. He took it of and it was starting to fail where the blade meets the hub. I took one look at and knew that I would have never bolted it on one of my planes to begin with. I am just saying, use a little common sense.
Hey if you want a blade sticking in your eye, that is your decision.
I do not use that stuff so I have no idea what is available or how many different manufacturers there are.
Derek
Actually, Derek, Matt told me that he did have a prop strike that broke that prop, but didn't realize it until he flew the next flight. The cracked prop blade apparently bent back dramatically, but did not come off!
I will not use these props, although I flew Matt's plane after the Nays with one of them (With Matt's admonishment to not do a long takeoff roll...) and found it yielded tremendous line tension; more than I felt necessary. I would support some kind of fact finding on these props as to the safe use in our event. Banning them outright at this point would be a bit rash I think. I've seen models ruined by wooden props that broke after a ground strike, too. And, these were on glow models.
If I see anyone using the quadcopter props in stunt I'll certainly relate Matt's and Kenny's experiences to them...
Later - Bob
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That prop was being used as a plow. An IC engine would have stopped. Another reason to ban electrics.
A good reason to have a 2.4 ghz RC cutoff, maybe. Although, at 10000 rpm, you had better be quick on the trigger.
Brett
p.s. or an accelerometer and a bandpass filter - rectify the resulting signal, if the voltage exceeds a threshold, shut it off. Tim Wescott, you are up!
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Actually, Derek, Matt told me that he did have a prop strike that broke that prop, but didn't realize it until he flew the next flight. The cracked prop blade apparently bent back dramatically, but did not come off!
I will not use these props, although I flew Matt's plane after the Nays with one of them (With Matt's admonishment to not do a long takeoff roll...) and found it yielded tremendous line tension; more than I felt necessary. I would support some kind of fact finding on these props as to the safe use in our event. Banning them outright at this point would be a bit rash I think.
Based on the few I have seen, they are pretty light and didn't look like they would spear anyone more than a few feet away. If that turns out to be true, then there's no reason to ban them. If it just destroys the airplane, then it's up to the pilot to determine risk/reward, I figure. Kenny may just had the misfortune to find out why they call it the "bleeding edge".
I have seen a bunch of APC electric prop strikes and no completely separations, so that seems OK to first approximation.
I don't know how you determine which are "quadcopter props" and which are "safe". Where do you draw the line on how tough the hubs are, and how would you test it? If someone starts making custom electric props, how you know which ones are OK and which ones are not, without extensive testing? If someone is making them in their garage, are they all the same, or does it depend on how hit it is the day he made it?
I deal with failure analysis on a regular basis, in aerospace. Usually, having exceptionally tight process controls and very careful tracking, you can trace failures to specific issues. That's why you end up with $900 toilet seats. But you still have random failures that you never really explain. None of that exists in this case, who knows what happens in the factory, and who knows what happens in someone's basement? Maybe the line voltage was 122 volts instead of 115 volts that day, and it made the "incandescent light bulb autoclave" 15 degrees hotter than normal? Stuff like that happens all the time, even in professional aerospace shops.
Howard is probably right, just plain maneuvering doesn't seem sufficient. Hitting it on the ground, or running it through the grass a few times, is clearly another story.
Brett
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Congratualtions Guys!!!!!
You all did really well in a very tough field!!
Thanks for all of your hard work!!
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Congratualtions Guys!!!!!
You all did really well in a very tough field!!
Thanks for all of your hard work!!
Is it over or is there a top 5 fly off?
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A good reason to have a 2.4 ghz RC cutoff, maybe. Although, at 10000 rpm, you had better be quick on the trigger.
Brett
p.s. or an accelerometer and a bandpass filter - rectify the resulting signal, if the voltage exceeds a threshold, shut it off. Tim Wescott, you are up!
Hmm. Could maybe be done. You may need to have a remotely-mounted accelerometer in the nose, rather than using my existing setup. "Just don't do that in the first place" does come to mind as a solution, however.
How many revolutions with a broken prop does it take to break the nose off of a typical stunt plane?
That prop was being used as a plow. An IC engine would have stopped. Another reason to ban electrics.
In theory this ought to be an easier problem to solve than trying to detect a broken blade fast enough to prevent disaster. You might even be able to do it from the outside of the speed control -- but it'd be a lot easier to implement such an "unusual load detector" inside an ESC of one's own design than it would be to try to do it from the outside, particularly if you had to accommodate a range of ESCs.
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In theory this ought to be an easier problem to solve than trying to detect a broken blade fast enough to prevent disaster. You might even be able to do it from the outside of the speed control -- but it'd be a lot easier to implement such an "unusual load detector" inside an ESC of one's own design than it would be to try to do it from the outside, particularly if you had to accommodate a range of ESCs.
Y'know, if there's 2000 people out there willing to put down deposits on the World's Coolest Control Line ESC, I could start working on the design by Monday, and maybe even be in production in time for the Nationals next year. At those production levels I think I'd have to charge about $250 a pop, though.
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Actually, Derek, Matt told me that he did have a prop strike that broke that prop, but didn't realize it until he flew the next flight. The cracked prop blade apparently bent back dramatically, but did not come off!
Later - Bob
My bad, I did come in late on that conversation.
Derek
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Is it over or is there a top 5 fly off?
Its over.
Derek
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Orestes took fifth. Igor took first. I didn't recognize any other US or Stunthanger citizens in the list:
http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_3rd_round_fly_off.pdf (http://cl-wch2014.pl/docs/F2B_after_3rd_round_fly_off.pdf)
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Between 2nd and 6th: 14 points. Between 1st and 2nd: 87 points. :o
Good observation !! There's sure no doubt about who's the best.
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Good observation !! There's sure no doubt about who's the best.
Hence my earlier comment that Howard ripped me for. Aside from the cowl falling off, you don't just suddenly forget how to do it in the middle of a contest.
The scores are always, repeat, *always* telling you something you need to know.
Brett
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Hmm. Could maybe be done. You may need to have a remotely-mounted accelerometer in the nose, rather than using my existing setup. "Just don't do that in the first place" does come to mind as a solution, however.
You probably want it on the stator of the motor, or on the motor mount.
I have a prototype design for this, using a MEMs accelerometer and some 12AX7s. If you use Telefunkens, you don't have to have the accelerometer.
How many revolutions with a broken prop does it take to break the nose off of a typical stunt plane?
In theory this ought to be an easier problem to solve than trying to detect a broken blade fast enough to prevent disaster. You might even be able to do it from the outside of the speed control -- but it'd be a lot easier to implement such an "unusual load detector" inside an ESC of one's own design than it would be to try to do it from the outside, particularly if you had to accommodate a range of ESCs.
You don't want to shut it off based on a single spike no matter how big it is.
Brett
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Congratulations Igor. It's so nice to see someone win (again) who has applied himself to the problem by analyzing the issue, designing a plane around his analysis, and then practicing his craft (a lot). The scores indicate it wasn't close. I could see that in Bulgaria as well.
So nice to see you win for the right reasons. Nothing but respect here!
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You probably want it on the stator of the motor, or on the motor mount.
I have a prototype design for this, using a MEMs accelerometer and some 12AX7s. If you use Telefunkens, you don't have to have the accelerometer.
If you want build a 1/2-A version I've got some CK-series ultra-miniatures in my junk box, gathering dust.
You don't want to shut it off based on a single spike no matter how big it is.
The whole issue of establishing a means of detecting a real event quick enough to do some good, while at the same time not having it false-alarm and screwing you out of a perfectly good official flight, is not at all trivial.
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In trying to add up the team scores, it appears that China has once again won the team title. SVK was second. I had an issue with third. It appears there were 4 fliers from RUS, and also a junior flier. What's up with that?
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I see Sergiy Byelko placed 15th. I beat him once at a California contest, so I figured that I'm better than he. After watching him closely today, I have concluded that I'm not. I have a lot of work to do to make the finals in this contest.
Belko Fliyes beter model now, than he had flown in CA.
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In trying to add up the team scores, it appears that China has once again won the team title. SVK was second. I had an issue with third. It appears there were 4 fliers from RUS, and also a junior flier. What's up with that?
It was
China
SLK
RUS
Randy
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If you want build a 1/2-A version I've got some CK-series ultra-miniatures in my junk box, gathering dust.
The whole issue of establishing a means of detecting a real event quick enough to do some good, while at the same time not having it false-alarm and screwing you out of a perfectly good official flight, is not at all trivial.
Hence the vibration checker, and a threshold. That should be less prone to false detections.
Another approach that could be implemented quickly - soft-mount the motor (which, unlike IC, doesn't screw up the run), then put microswitches near the armature. When it starts shaking, it hits the switch which shuts off the motor.
Brett
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It was
China
SLK
RUS
Randy
Yes, my initial results......But.....Which 3 of the 4 did you add?
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Hmm. Could maybe be done. You may need to have a remotely-mounted accelerometer in the nose, rather than using my existing setup. "Just don't do that in the first place" does come to mind as a solution, however.
How many revolutions with a broken prop does it take to break the nose off of a typical stunt plane?
In theory this ought to be an easier problem to solve than trying to detect a broken blade fast enough to prevent disaster. You might even be able to do it from the outside of the speed control -- but it'd be a lot easier to implement such an "unusual load detector" inside an ESC of one's own design than it would be to try to do it from the outside, particularly if you had to accommodate a range of ESCs.
Why not a practical approach like machining a shear groove in the prop shaft behind the drive washer (collet)
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Why not a practical approach like machining a shear groove in the prop shaft behind the drive washer (collet)
Mostly, in spite of what happened to Kenny, it seems like a solution desperately in search of a problem.
But, if such a groove could be done in a manner that doesn't the whole prop & spinner assembly to fly off in flight when there was no other problem happening -- sure, why not?
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I have not seen the results, but I have heard that Carl Dodge won F2A He had three 0 times on the first three rounds. Talk about performing under pressure.
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Yes, my initial results......But.....Which 3 of the 4 did you add?
Hi Paul
The two in the finals plus YAKOVLEV , Yevgeniy at 16th , he was the highest placing non qualifier
Randy
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Hi Paul
The two in the finals plus YAKOVLEV , Yevgeniy at 16th , he was the highest placing non qualifier
Randy
Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???
Paul
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Can hardly wait for the 2016 Worlds in Australia....where I'm sure we'll see an excellent site and professional administration.
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Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???
Paul
Yeah ? I saw that when I was totaling scores, Beats me, I hope there is a typo mistake somewhere. And it could be 5 if you count the 3rd placing jr. team member
Maybe Howard or someone there can explain it to us
Randy
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Yeah ? I saw that when I was totaling scores, Beats me, I hope there is a typo mistake somewhere. And it could be 5 if you count the 3rd placing jr. team member
Maybe Howard or someone there can explain it to us
Randy
I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.
Aki
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Mostly, in spite of what happened to Kenny, it seems like a solution desperately in search of a problem.
But, if such a groove could be done in a manner that doesn't the whole prop & spinner assembly to fly off in flight when there was no other problem happening -- sure, why not?
I was referring to prop strikes. Most engine accessories on full scale aircraft have such a feature on their input shafts. It prevents wiping out the accessory gearbox in event of a failure.
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I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.
Aki
That makes sense: a previous champ has the right to participate, whatever else is going on.
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Could you guys start a new technical thread about the emergency motor shutoff and wimpy props?
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I have not seen the results, but I have heard that Carl Dodge won F2A He had three 0 times on the first three rounds. Talk about performing under pressure.
If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team. May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ. Way to go Carl ! :)
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I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.
Aki
Yes thanks Aki , that explains the 5 flyers
regards
Randy
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If you want build a 1/2-A version I've got some CK-series ultra-miniatures in my junk box, gathering dust.
The whole issue of establishing a means of detecting a real event quick enough to do some good, while at the same time not having it false-alarm and screwing you out of a perfectly good official flight, is not at all trivial.
Why not a trike gear like PW used not too long ago. While not nose over proof, it would certainly be nose over resistant. Trying to do it in the controller seems to have resulted in people not just getting screwed out of official flights, but screwed out of airplanes when the controller shuts it off directly overhead, etc.
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If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team. May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ. Way to go Carl ! :)
i think u will find that this is Carl's 3rd or 4th World championship win
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Kenny showed me his props and to me they looked just fine. Slightly lighter and thinner than the APC's that I have seen. And when looking as Orestes's flying with similar ones, they are a lot quieter than APC's. And a slight inefficiency (compared to APC's, I mean) may even be a benefit in windy weather if you can afford to waste some power.
Kennys incident was not caused by bad propeller but a bad landing gear geometry. I saw a few of his take-offs before the incident and every one of them was a catastrophe waiting to happend in that potato field.
I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet but here is the power of choice of top 3:
-1st electric
-2nd ST.60
-3rd some 4-stroke
To me it is hard to tell which one worked best in that weather. In right hands they seemed quite equal.
But clearly the worst to handle that wind were the simpler electric setups (without the accelerometer control).
L
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Kenny showed me his props and to me they looked just fine. Slightly lighter and thinner than the APC's that I have seen. And when looking as Orestes's flying with similar ones, they are a lot quieter than APC's. And a slight inefficiency (compared to APC's, I mean) may even be a benefit in windy weather if you can afford to waste some power.
Kennys incident was not caused by bad propeller but a bad landing gear geometry. I saw a few of his take-offs before the incident and every one of them was a catastrophe waiting to happend in that potato field.
The problem is that with an Eather or Bolly, it's almost unheard of for the blade to fly off after a prop strike. Not impossible, since it has happened on rare occasions. What triggered PAMPA to want to look at it was the high rate of failure. People have only been using them for stunt planes for maybe a year, and there have already been multiple examples of severe damage around the root causing severe or catastrophic failures.
They look fine to me, too. Look much better than an APC for sure, and drastically stiffer. I certainly wouldn't expect them to fail easily.
Brett
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i think u will find that this is Carl's 3rd or 4th World championship win
I think u are wrong. :)
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Can hardly wait for the 2016 Worlds in Australia....where I'm sure we'll see an excellent site and professional administration.
The picture they posted on the bulletin boards in Poland do not look encouraging.
Small field, nowhere to practise on-site and the combat circles appear to fade into the very dusty/sandy looking scrub.
The time of year (last week of May) is also a problem for most of us in the Great White North. If we are lucky we will have a couple of weeks of flyable weather prior to going.
It is possible that flights made at the W/C will be the first of the year for us.
Pat MacKenzie
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Good show. Pat!!
Four FAI teams at the same time! F2B, F2d, F3K, and F3somthing else.
You da man!
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Good show. Pat!!
Four FAI teams at the same time! F2B, F2d, F3K, and F3somthing else.
You da man!
F3P, indoor pattern.
I will back in Poland (Warsaw) next spring :)
Flying two classes at one contest (B and D) is a lot of work. Had they been on opposite sides of the runway it would have been almost impossible.
The guys running D are nice enough to move around matches to accommodate the more fixed "B" schedule.
There are others participating in multiple classes, so they are used to it.
I probably spent more time leading up to the contest at the B site, because you have to hang around for your turn on the practise circles and if you are not there you just get skipped over.
Pat
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I think u are wrong. :)
could be, wouldnt be the first time y1
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Hi, guys : )
Here some video files from the last final flights; )
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7gnsyRQuYtlTA84kOvktv4wKunji2RGI
Greetings, Tatyana
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I watched Igor practice. The wind was moderate--certainly not light. He did most maneuvers normally, then did his square eights upwind.
:-))) ... yes I did and also some of them 90 degrees left and right from wing ... simply because I saw that wind can change during one flight several times on that place, that was also reason that I flew whole second flight of World cup with wind to face :-P ... so I simply wanted to parctice "what if" ... fortunately it did not happen whole WCh again :- ))
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Can somebody please convince Igor to fly with his fingers crossed? That might help our guys... ;) Steve
%#$&(*^%#@%&* ... probably someone did ... first fly off I did not close cowl well and it costed me "0" for disqualification :-P
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Thanks, Sparky. I figured you guys would know before I could get back to the hotel to post the outcome. I didn't take detailed notes, but that's about the order I expected.
Orestes mentioned to Yuri Yatsenko that he had flown 200 flights in the last month. "Not enough," said Yuri. "Igor has flown 2000."
No, I am not like Juri, we do not fly so much, I rather concentrate to do every one well. I did aproximately 400 this year (since april), mostly in July when I did 8 daily last weeks, you can ask Keith he flew one week with us here in Bratislava) ... but I fly indoors in winter, so plus may be 50 ... and plus that what I did in Wloclawek, what will be aproximately 50
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Congratulations Igor. It's so nice to see someone win (again) who has applied himself to the problem by analyzing the issue, designing a plane around his analysis, and then practicing his craft (a lot). The scores indicate it wasn't close. I could see that in Bulgaria as well.
So nice to see you win for the right reasons. Nothing but respect here!
Thanks Paul and also all others :- ))) ... now comes time to recover to normal life :- )))
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Hi Igor:
Let me add my most heartfelt congratulations to those you have already received. Fantastic job by a fantastic person. Well deserved.
I certainly know what you mean about getting back to normal life. I remember back when I won my World Championships. I took off work for a full month and practiced almost all day every day. It paid off, but I never again put in that kind of effort. You seem to be able to focus and prepare better than I was able to over the bulk of my career, and the results are obvious. You are in every way a Champion!
Congrats to all the WC competitors for their great effort and results.
Bob Hunt
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Hi Igor:
I certainly know what you mean about getting back to normal life. I remember back when I won my World Championships.
Bob Hunt
The old "top secret prop out of the back pocket" method. y1
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If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team. May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ. Way to go Carl ! :)
It was his 16th team (we talked about it this trip) and his second World Championship. The first was 1990 in France. This one was amazing to see. He was sick (fever) and still pulled it off. The team was second.
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Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???
Paul
A team can consist of 3 Senior pilots and 1 Junior pilot. The Junior pilots are scheduled to fly in the same sequence as the Senior pilots. The team rankings are based on the 3 best scores among the 3 Senior Pilots and the 1 Junior pilot. So it is possible that the Junior Pilot's score is more important than one of the Senior pilots for team rankings. Without going into details, this happened once with our USA team when it placed 2nd. (Also, the team rankings are based on the placings after the qualification flights and disregard any changes in the top 15 after the finals are completed.)
This is my first post on these WC's. There may be more.
Keith
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I wanted to make a separate post here to add to Paul Walker's congratulations to Igor Burger.
I watched all of Igor's flights. There is no doubt that he was clearly the best pilot at this contest. And his winning margin was well deserved, both at the World Cup as well as the World Championships.
Keith
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No, I am not like Juri, we do not fly so much, I rather concentrate to do every one well. I did aproximately 400 this year (since april), mostly in July when I did 8 daily last weeks, you can ask Keith he flew one week with us here in Bratislava) ... but I fly indoors in winter, so plus may be 50 ... and plus that what I did in Wloclawek, what will be aproximately 50
Whatever you did, it was clearly the right thing! Well done.
Brett
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Yes, congratulations Igor. Your verse may not be as scintillating as the Jive Combat Team's, but your flying certainly makes up for it.
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Let me add my congrats to Igor as well, and add a story that many may have missed. I do know that Igor does not like me to write stuff like this but I'm going to anyway. I did indeed spend 4 days with Igor at their flying site in Bratislava. What a privilege to observe Igor and Alex at work. At the same time I was helped with an incredible amount of trimming and coaching from Igor. I was hoping to move up from my previous best of 37th place at least by 10 places. My Newtron stunter started to show some promise and I had some pretty decent flights. As Igor mentioned, he does practices regularly but with a definite purpose each time and certainly not 2000 flights!
You must also understand that I was invited to Bratislava by Igor in spite of the fact that he really needed to defend his world champs title. I really did not want to bother him or distract him from this purpose......but of course, I did. In Poland, I had my first round in wind and rain.....yes rain, they did not stop in the rain. I wear glasses and it's no fun with drops of water on the old goggles! I did not score well on the low scoring circle. Yes.....we had a low scoring circle and a high scoring circle with big differences in judging between the two, but that's another story. I was up on the high scoring circle for my second flight and it was windy and gusty wind at that. Then the unthinkable happened and my Newtron broke the rear fuselage somewhere in the 2nd outside square. When I say that I was devastated, I would say that it is an understatement......I was destroyed! I had this collection of pieces with a center fuselage piece and two broken wings. In fact when Igor came over I had already chucked a lot of it into the nearest dirt bin. He came over and said "If you want, we can fix it." I said that this would be be totally impossible, but Igor replied in more or less these words "If you say yes, then we will fix it. If you say no then that is o.k. BUT we can fix it!" I was reluctant to agree knowing that Igor and Alex were both working hard to perform to their best and I certainly did not want to stand in their way. I eventually agreed and Igor set the wheels in motion. He sourced some balsa from the local Polish club through event director Marek Dominiak That evening Igor, Alex Shrek, Jan Stano, Svorad Sýkorčin and also help from Tania Uzunova, started on the repair. I was mostly in the way, and I remember Jan Stano giving me a shot of Vodka which Igor told me was actually, cyano activator. These guys actuall had a lot of fun during the process! You can see the pics on Tania's Face Book page at https://www.facebook.com/taniq.uzunova/posts/762089607204071?comment_id=764713133608385&offset=0&total_comments=30
Alex build a whole new nose and Igor and the other guys put many of the pieces together and made new parts where necessary. We finished up at around 01:00 and then I had to fit the electric stuff and motor. I figured out where to fit the esc, wiring and switches but could not get the motor in properly and went to bed. I was up at 05:00 without any useful sleep and then Igor was down with again at 05:30. We got it all together and I was out at the field at around 07:30. Pat McKenzie kindly let me sneak into his place at one of the practice circles and I flew the beast. It flew quite well. Not that great and nowhere near the previous trim, but good enough to get me some points. I was down at the very bottom of the pack so far. My 3rd round was at 09:15 and conditions were good, but I was very sleepy and did 4 loops either way and scored fat zero's for the round loops. I went back to our guest house for a little much needed shut-eye and then flew my last round at 15:45. This went better and with many words from Igor telling me to fly softly and to count my loops, I did a lot better and scored 1010. This pushed my place up from down at the bottom to 50th place. Not close to my target of ending in the 20's but still rather amazing. The take apart model was now all glued together, so there way no way to take it back home. The story did the rounds and Marek asked if I could leave it for their local club as a reminder of this special effort of the stunt family. This I did after all of the workers signed it. You can also see from the photos that I crossed out the name Newtron and called it "Apache" because of all the patches.
So from heartbreak to a heart-warming experience which I will never forget, I would like to publicly thank my good friend Igor and the Slovak team for their incredible job of fixing this 64 year old South African's model. I feel very humbled and will go home with these very special memories. This just adds to what others, like Keith Trostle has already said....Igor is a true world champ in every way!!
Sincerely,
Keith R
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Thanks guys, now I cannot go outside for a while with mu red cheeks :-)))
Keith, vodka is not CA activator, vodka is human activator :- )))))))))))))
But to make story correct, the repairing was Alex idea, it really did not look reparable, but he had all tools glues etc to do it, so when I saw he is prepared, I know that we can do it, and simply managed Keith to say YES (he told minimally 3 times NOT ... but I did not give up asking again :-P ) ... morning we found that human activator little overactivated Alex, so we had to fix some small details (fuselage was narrower then motor mount) but after all it worked. Fortunately the piece of fuselage with processing sticker survived, so it was legal to fly it. So moral of the story - think twice where you put processing sticker :- )))))))))
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This is what makes the model airplane family so great.
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I hate electric. Congratulations Igor Burger, you must be some smart guy and very skilled. Best wishes to you.
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Congratulations on your world title. Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done.
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Congratulations on your world title. Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done.
That would be swell, except he'd be too busy shaking hands with all of us who want to meet him to get to fly!!
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Congrats to Igor and all the other WC participants, hope you all enjoyed the competition. Thanks also to everyone who kept us "in the loop" in the WC thread here too.
When are our U.S. boys due back in town?
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Congrats Igor!! Well done!!
The story of you guys helping out Keith is awesome!! I love stuff like that!!!!!!
I love the pic on facebook of your trophies!
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Igor,
It's obvious that you and your friends are incredible competitors, as well as very nice Gentlemen!
It's wonderful to have people like you guys in the Stunt Fraternity!
Congratulations for your great win in the WC and for being a genuine person as well as a great flier and builder!
I truly hope to meet you in person someday!
Randy Cuberly
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" Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done "
Why would he bother ?
He simply says Send over your best 3 guys and I'l beat them, no need to come out and "prove" anything.....'
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Why would he bother ?
Well, maybe it would be really cool to take the Walker Trophy to Europe.....
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Well, maybe it would be really cool to take the Walker Trophy to Europe.....
It would be interesting to see with our judges if he is a maneuver or two ahead of everyone.
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It smells a bit like....jealousy here ;)
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It smells a bit like....jealousy here ;)
Not by me I am no where good enough but I would like to see him against out top guys at our NATS and see if he gets a score. Igor has already proven he's the best in the world.
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Not by me I am no where good enough but I would like to see him against out top guys at our NATS and see if he gets a score. Igor has already proven he's the best in the world.
I am sure that Igor would score well here. (I have seen him fly and he is very good) He did beat 3 of our top guys in the past two world champs but I am not sure if he could beat all of our top guys on our own turf (but he might). At the Nats he would qualify for top 20 without any trouble but anyone who has tried, knows how hard it is to get into the top 5. One mistake, is the difference between making the cut or being a spectator on Saturday. His cowl falling off would have taken him out of the contest here...
Derek
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Hi, all ....greetings Igor : ))
Just a small note the cowl doesn't' fall or fly away from the model... it stays somehow i don't know how ... over the wing , during the whole flight! So far he decide not to do any maneuvers from the pattern, even I am sure that he can do! Actually he did wingover and a loop...and I was not agree with score zero! But back to my question ?
Is that means in AMA rules if something like that happens you will be disqualify?
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Hi, all ....greetings Igor : ))
Just a small note the cowl doesn't' fall or fly away from the model... it stays somehow i don't know how ... over the wing , during the whole flight! So far he decide not to do any maneuvers from the pattern, even I am sure that he can do! Actually he did wingover and a loop...and I was not agree with score zero! But back to my question ?
Is that means in AMA rules if something like that happens you will be disqualify?
Hey Tania,
My only point was that at the AMA Nationals, in top 5 qualifying, you only get 2 flights and both count for the total score. Only the top 5 move forward, so one mistake will take you out of the contest... Nothing else!
Igor is an Incredible pilot and would do well at the Nats.
Derek
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;D
nice theories, but:
I would really like to come to Nats, because it was perfect view to see so many models on one place. Especially in case that we europeans also participated, so it was really lot. However salaries here are not comparable with yours, so it is almost undoable for us. The same will happen with WCh in Australia.
Regarding my cowl - it was on cable, so I knew it will not fall off and I can continie flying ... but I also knew that conditions are bad (wind up to 11m/s in gusts) so I simply stopped, because I knew I can do safely next two flights better then this. So Derek, it was exactly situation you describing :- ))) I am not someone who gets points accidentally, I have more stable results then for example Alex or Richie. But why such theories? we all have some rules and we live with them, simply I did all under rules which are the same for all and simply stopped flying because I knew this flight will be lower. Nats has another rules and all do it under them. Why it should be (dis)advantage for someone? It is just necessary learn them and adopt. The only disadvantage for us could be all american judges. But I did not feel it when we flew with Alex in Muncie, so it could be only theoretical disadvantage.
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;D
nice theories, but:
I would really like to come to Nats, because it was perfect view to see so many models on one place. Especially in case that we europeans also participated, so it was really lot. However salaries here are not comparable with yours, so it is almost undoable for us. The same will happen with WCh in Australia.
Regarding my cowl - it was on cable, so I knew it will not fall off and I can continie flying ... but I also knew that conditions are bad (wind up to 11m/s in gusts) so I simply stopped, because I knew I can do safely next two flights better then this. So Derek, it was exactly situation you describing :- ))) I am not someone who gets points accidentally, I have more stable results then for example Alex or Richie. But why such theories? we all have some rules and we live with them, simply I did all under rules which are the same for all and simply stopped flying because I knew this flight will be lower. Nats has another rules and all do it under them. Why it should be (dis)advantage for someone? It is just necessary learn them and adopt. The only disadvantage for us could be all american judges. But I did not feel it when we flew with Alex in Muncie, so it could be only theoretical disadvantage.
No disadvantage to anyone. The disadvantage is to everyone equally. There is no throw away flights in the top 5 qualifying. I was just using you as an example. I am sure that you would get very big scores here if you ever came. ;D
Derek
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I remember my Nats flight perfectly till today ... first flight 536.00 and second 536.33 :- ))))))))))))) ... no problem with stability :- )))
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Thanks Paul and also all others :- ))) ... now comes time to recover to normal life :- )))
Igor,
I thought that stunt planes were your "normal" life. The thing you do for money was necessary to support your "normal" life.
BTW, what do you do for a living?
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Igor,
I thought that stunt planes were your "normal" life. The thing you do for money was necessary to support your "normal" life.
BTW, what do you do for a living?
Let me guess,,,,,,,Engineer????
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Hi All Thank you all for your willingness to help in my blunder of a first WC. I simply built a plane for smooth pavement and not rough grass. The grass circles at Muncie are better than the one's we had in Poland. Bret The prop broke about an inch from the hub strait across like it has no carbon toe going end to end and on the second strait in impact it cracked at the hub. The first prop strike was hard enough to twist the motor mount and motor out of the plane and toss it into the weeds. The circles were watered down and rolled in following days but the plane was gone. The prop strike also twisted the plane enough to crack the fuse from the stab forward about 6 inches to the bottom block . After the repairs this area failed with a vary loud crack sound on the reverse wing over that sent the plan strait in . The tail section was skewered into the ground by the push rod that had both titanium ends broken. I was shattered. That day, Igor arranged the use of a plane from a gentleman from Germany that was only competing in the world cup but he did not speak English. Thanks to Bruno and Henk, the next day we had a plane on the way if it would fit in the car and survive the ride from England 12 hours away and not until Sunday. A day later Kaz offered the use of his Blue Max with a PA 75 and I almost fell over. Late that day Bena offered a brand new Shark he was taking delivery of that day. Thank you all for your generosity that shows how special this sport is. Having planed for electric we did not have any fuel , battery, syringe and the like . Lauri helped with bottles and syringe and some nitro. Kaz gave us handle lines, flight box , spare props , and any thing I needed . Keith was on a mission to get fuel that was not easy or cheep ( $ 220 US for 6 liters ) that we mixed at the field. I ran almost 5 liters through the plane and adjusted handle and added nose weight until the plane felt like home. We are about to board a ship that may not have wifi for a week will right more later. Before I go , Can you imagine lending some one your plane to fly for a week as much as they can in horrible conditions . Thank you from the bottom of my heart so much Kaz and all that made this possible.. Kenny Stevens
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BTW, what do you do for a living?
beside sleeping? :- ))))) I am technitian (computers) and programmer (mostly databases)
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Can you imagine lending some one your plane to fly for a week as much as they can in horrible conditions.
Yes... of course. ;)
It was good seeing you back in the air again. H^^
Bruno
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;D
nice theories, but:
I would really like to come to Nats, because it was perfect view to see so many models on one place. Especially in case that we europeans also participated, so it was really lot. However salaries here are not comparable with yours, so it is almost undoable for us. The same will happen with WCh in Australia.
Regarding my cowl - it was on cable, so I knew it will not fall off and I can continie flying ... but I also knew that conditions are bad (wind up to 11m/s in gusts) so I simply stopped, because I knew I can do safely next two flights better then this. So Derek, it was exactly situation you describing :- ))) I am not someone who gets points accidentally, I have more stable results then for example Alex or Richie. But why such theories? we all have some rules and we live with them, simply I did all under rules which are the same for all and simply stopped flying because I knew this flight will be lower. Nats has another rules and all do it under them. Why it should be (dis)advantage for someone? It is just necessary learn them and adopt. The only disadvantage for us could be all american judges. But I did not feel it when we flew with Alex in Muncie, so it could be only theoretical disadvantage.
Hi Igor
is it not harder to fly with a loose cowling flopping in the breeze held only by a retaining cable?
I think I would have a hard time flying precision maneuvers with the cowl flopping around ?? :-)
Randy