Team Trials - 2019

[Chris_Rud]

Anyone know where and when? Trying to get it on the calendar.

[Dave_Trible]

Chris right now Tulsa, OK has put their bid in and filed all the paperwork.  They are waiting for gears to turn at AMA for final go ahead.  I’m not sure if any dates have been proposed yet but I’d think something close to Labor Day.

[afml]

Any updates on information for the 2019 Team Trials??
Location bid(s)/ acceptance??
Dates???
Many thanks in advance & "Tight Lines!" 
Wes

[Dave_Trible]

Wes I called to pester Colleen about it a couple weeks ago.  She'd been busy with getting the new website going and hadn't really addressed the Trials stuff yet.  Tulsa is the standing bid right now unless anything new came since.  Dates wouldn't be known until the location is confirmed.  Typically it's Labor Day weekend but doesn't have to be.  They have their big fall contest very close to that date and don't know their thoughts on that.  The last two were in October but were also further south in better Oct. weather.  We are still waiting.....

Dave

[Tim Wescott]

Wow.  About $250 less in gas and hotel rooms for me to go there as opposed to the Nats, and since I'm currently flying a hand-me-down I'd be more eligible!

[Joseph Patterson]

        I believe the TT's have been the second weekend in Oct. the last two cycles.
            Doug

[BillLee]

        I believe the TT's have been the second weekend in Oct. the last two cycles.
            Doug

That's because the best weather in Texas is (usually) in October. Maybe not true in Yankee country. 

[Tim Wescott]

That's because the best weather in Texas is (usually) in October. Maybe not true in Yankee country. 

Prime contest season out here (the Pacific Northwest) is late May through mid September or so.  We start up in April and run through October, but the first & last contests of the year are chancy.

[BillLee]

Prime contest season out here (the Pacific Northwest) is late May through mid September or so.  We start up in April and run through October, but the first & last contests of the year are chancy.

Then why didn't you make an offer to host the Team Selection?

[Paul Walker]

Then why didn't you make an offer to host the Team Selection?

In the early '90's, a group from Oregon put forth a very detailed bid, with lots of local support and backing, and was immediately dismissed by AMA. Was not even put forth for a vote.
 The group who put it together are still around, and running contests, just not a TT's. Since then  no bids from the NW.

[BillLee]

In the early '90's, a group from Oregon put forth a very detailed bid, with lots of local support and backing, and was immediately dismissed by AMA. Was not even put forth for a vote.
 The group who put it together are still around, and running contests, just not a TT's. Since then  no bids from the NW.

Paul, I cannot see how a bid was "immediately dismissed by AMA" if the F2B Team Selection Committee followed the rules. Yes, AMA (Colleen) is a conduit for bid requests and responses, but it is the Team Selection Committee that has the say, not AMA. All bids are presented to the TSC and they then pick one if several are available. (Of course, that's not usually the case, usually we cry for someone to bid!)

The TSC is supposed to be made up of a representative from each AMA District, elected by the "participants" in that District. So it's not the bureaucracy in Muncie. :-)

(For anybody who is interested, this is all spelled out in AMA's "Blue Book" which can be seen at http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2014_BLUE_BOOKFEB14.pdf )

[Paul Walker]

Paul, I cannot see how a bid was "immediately dismissed by AMA" if the F2B Team Selection Committee followed the rules.

BINGO!! There was something funny going on back then. The Oregon group worked closely with AMA regarding the requirements for a TT 's bid, and what they needed to do to have a successful bid. I don't know for a fact where the "issue" occurred, but it did. I was/am on the TSC and was VERY surprised to not see it on the ballot.

Yes, AMA (Colleen) is a conduit for bid requests and responses, but it is the Team Selection Committee that has the say, not AMA. All bids are presented to the TSC and they then pick one if several are available. (Of course, that's not usually the case, usually we cry for someone to bid!)

The TSC is supposed to be made up of a representative from each AMA District, elected by the "participants" in that District. So it's not the bureaucracy in Muncie. :-)

Again, I can't say WHERE the issue occurred.

(For anybody who is interested, this is all spelled out in AMA's "Blue Book" which can be seen at http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2014_BLUE_BOOKFEB14.pdf )

[Bob Reeves]

Tulsa's best weather is September, we hold our big stunt contest the last full weekend in September and so far have had very few not so perfect stunt weather weekends. We are thinking around the first of September, hot summer is starting to turn into fall and the grass circles are in the best condition.

Couple reasons we are thinking Tulsa is the perfect location for the TT. It is centrally located, motels are inexpensive and 5 miles of light traffic from the field. Tulsa International airport is 20 minutes away. We have been told we have three of the best grass circles in the country. We don't see not having a paved circle as a negative as you will likely be flying on a grass field at the worlds. We have an air conditioned club house electric, water and WiFi. Top that off with a bunch of guys and a land owner that will make every effort to make sure you have a pleasant experience while here.

Oh Ya, almost forgot the best pull test machines in the world

[Brett Buck]

Tulsa International airport is 20 minutes away. We have been told we have three of the best grass circles in the country. We don't see not having a paved circle as a negative as you will likely be flying on a grass field at the worlds.

    Grass circles, well-prepared, are a lot better than pavement. Not nearly as hot/miserable, and, as you say, you aren't likely to be getting better at a WC.

      Brett

[BillLee]

    Grass circles, well-prepared, are a lot better than pavement. Not nearly as hot/miserable, and, as you say, you aren't likely to be getting better at a WC.

      Brett

If you REALLY want to prepare for the WCs, you need to find a cow pasture somewhere and fly there! 

[Bob Reeves]

If you REALLY want to prepare for the WCs, you need to find a cow pasture somewhere and fly there! 

We have that also, couple acres around the circles get mowed with a tractor and 7 foot flail mower, prairie grass is 2 to 3 inches tall after it's mowed 

[john e. holliday]

I remember before the three classes of F2 competition were separated for team trials it used to be over Labor Day week end so the kid(Juniors) would not lose too many days of school.

[Trostle]

If you REALLY want to prepare for the WCs, you need to find a cow pasture somewhere and fly there! 

To equivocate the stunt flying circles at the World Championships in Poland four years ago to a cow pasture is an embarrassment to the cow pastures of the world.

Keith

[Brett Buck]

If you REALLY want to prepare for the WCs, you need to find a cow pasture somewhere and fly there! 

   Alternately, we could just hold the WC in Tulsa!   Oklahoma is far preferable to Europe, from almost any perspective.

    Brett

p.s. might even see the ghost of Bob "The King" Wills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=i1YtImqPW8c

[Dan McEntee]

  It would be cool beans to see a WC in Tulsa! I think of it as a "big little town."  The most time I have spent there was a long weekend riding vintage dirt bikes in the ISDT Reunion Ride at Zinc Ranch. Got me my gold medal their in my class. The local people and club were very nice and accommodating. Hotels were nice. I think there is a college nearby that would maybe fill the dorm room type accommodations that I think is something they look for in a W/C bid. It was when the sailplane club was a member of got the first F3-E team trials bid and the 1988 W/C event at Parks College in Cahokia, IL. You just need the site for the racing and speed, and that would mean pavement, correct?
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[BillLee]

   Alternately, we could just hold the WC in Tulsa!   Oklahoma is far preferable to Europe, from almost any perspective.

    Brett

p.s. might even see the ghost of Bob "The King" Wills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=i1YtImqPW8c

Hey! Great! Bob could add three paved circles as well as erecting nets/fences around all them AND around the grass circles for F2B. Then we could use the cow pasture next door for the F2D guys, but remember, they have to have a safety net as well......

Unfortunately, reality isn't close to imagination. 

[Bob Reeves]

Hold on a minute... We are more than prepared for the T-Trials but the WC is a whole different ball game. Maybe if some millionaire donated a couple hundred thousand to the Tulsa Gluedobbers   

[Howard Rush]

Oklahoma is far preferable to Europe, from almost any perspective.

A place where even squares can have a ball.

[Brett Buck]

Hold on a minute... We are more than prepared for the T-Trials but the WC is a whole different ball game. Maybe if some millionaire donated a couple hundred thousand to the Tulsa Gluedobbers 

  We are notably short of millionaires in this hobby. That is no coincidence.   
 
   And it actually *isn't* all that much more, given the current standards. I think you just need to find an abandoned shopping mall with a big parking lot for the support events. Let them fly in the equivalent of a "potato field" a few times.

   There are plenty of places for a WC, its much easier than a NATs as far as facilities goes. No one does it because it's not worth doing, not because it's all that hard to come up with a site. There's a suitable site 3 miles from my house, there are places you could hold a WC simultaneously with a NATs less than 20 miles from here, complete with postcard -quality scenic views and everyone getting their own personal practice circle. Muncie is an overkill site for a WC, same with a lot of other places (like the site they have Triple Tree). Brodak's site would probably suffice.

   Brett

     

[Shawn Lenci]

A place where even squares can have a ball.

Nice Howard!  A little tip to the Man...Mr. Haggard.

Shawn

[Joseph Daly]

Has a place and date been set? just trying to figure out my vacation plans.

Thanks
Joe

[Bob Reeves]

Still waiting to hear from the AMA, have had a couple guys from the Gluedobbers call and send emails but so far no response. Tulsa gang is ready to get the ball rolling but no reason to do allot of work and planning until we know for sure one way or the other.

[BillLee]

Still waiting to hear from the AMA, have had a couple guys from the Gluedobbers call and send emails but so far no response. Tulsa gang is ready to get the ball rolling but no reason to do allot of work and planning until we know for sure one way or the other.

Bob, can you tell us what dates you proposed for the F2B Team Trials?  Since yours was apparently the only bid, that would allow folks to start making plans even if you haven't heard back from AMA.

BTW, it's really the F2B Team Selection Committee that is "in charge", AMA is basically just a communication conduit. You might want to contact the F2B TSC Chairman. According to the AMA web site, that is Randy Smith randyaero@msn.com .

Regards,

Bill

Control Line Aerobatics (F2B) Team Selection Committee
I.
II. Winfred Urtnowski, 93 Elliott Pl., Rutherford, NJ 07070-1912 windyu@aol.com
III. Mike Palko, 420 Brookside Dr., Perkasie, PA 18944 mpalko494@msn.com
IV. Richard Houser, 1314 S. Oakland St., Arlington, VA 22204-4233 yevch8v@verizon.net
V. James Smith, 980 Winnbrook Dr., Dacula, GA 30019 randyaero@msn.com
VI. Christopher Rud, 306 N Park Ave., Aurora, IL 60506 me@chrisrud.com
VII. Robert McDonald, 28746 Westfield St., Livonia, MI 48150-3135 bobsp47@sbcglobal.net
VIII. Frank McMillan, 12106 Gunter Grv., San Antonio, TX 78231-2412 msmfdmc@aol.com
IX. James Lee, 827 S.E. 43rd. St., Topeka, KS 66609-1619 jlee9@cox.net
X. David Fitzgerald, 1150 Monticello Rd., Napa, CA 94558-2031 davidlfitzgerald@sbcglobal.net
XI. Paul Walker, 25900 127th Ave. S.E., Kent, WA 98031-7933 go_stunt@comcast.net


https://www.modelaircraft.org/world-championships/team/team-selection-committees

[Paul Walker]

So Randy, what's happening?

[Bob Reeves]

Bob, can you tell us what dates you proposed for the F2B Team Trials?  Since yours was apparently the only bid, that would allow folks to start making plans even if you haven't heard back from AMA.

Actual dates haven't been discussed, as we were waiting to hear back from Colleen, Tim Tipton has stepped up to be the CD with help as needed from the other club members, guess I'm like Colleen just a communication conduit. Labor Day weekend is the first Sunday in September, last Saturday in August. I don't see any issues with holding the TT that weekend but it really isn't my decision to make.

[Scott Richlen]

You guys ought to figure out how to hold the Team Trials on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., say, in front of the National Air & Space Museum.  Great location and plenty of sight-seeing for significant others.  You could invite all of the FAA bureaucrats to see just how dangerous model airplanes are and finally make the point that these are not drones.  They might even take notice that while we'd be flying in proximity to the National Airport landing pattern, none of the airliners would be in any kind of jeopardy.

By the way, once they see the PR potential, this might even get the AMA to admit that yes indeed, control line actually exists.....

[frank williams]

Scott that's a great idea!  Not so much to rub the FAA nose in it, but just as a national promotional for model aviation.

[BillLee]

So Randy, what's happening?

Has anybody heard anything from Randy Smith?

[Scott Richlen]

Here's the view looking east and west of where you would be flying.  Not a bad view, eh?

[RandySmith]

So Randy, what's happening?

I am waiting on AMA to send me the  bids for the  TTs , so far it seems they  are  real busy !

Randy

[RandySmith]

Has anybody heard anything from Randy Smith?

Yes  I have  not got anything from AMA on the bids  So I asked the Tulsa guys to send it to me directly, and got it yesterday

Randy

[Trostle]

You guys ought to figure out how to hold the Team Trials on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., say, in front of the National Air & Space Museum.  Great location and plenty of sight-seeing for significant others.  You could invite all of the FAA bureaucrats to see just how dangerous model airplanes are and finally make the point that these are not drones.  They might even take notice that while we'd be flying in proximity to the National Airport landing pattern, none of the airliners would be in any kind of jeopardy.

By the way, once they see the PR potential, this might even get the AMA to admit that yes indeed, control line actually exists.....

Team Trials at the Mall would be a bit unrealistic.  However, in years past, CL contests were held at Bolling AFB just across the river from where the Mall is.  I do not know if there are still runways there or not, but it was a great facility for CL.

Keith

[Dave_Trible]

You guys ought to figure out how to hold the Team Trials on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., say, in front of the National Air & Space Museum.  Great location and plenty of sight-seeing for significant others.  You could invite all of the FAA bureaucrats to see just how dangerous model airplanes are and finally make the point that these are not drones.  They might even take notice that while we'd be flying in proximity to the National Airport landing pattern, none of the airliners would be in any kind of jeopardy.

By the way, once they see the PR potential, this might even get the AMA to admit that yes indeed, control line actually exists.....

You’d get busted for flying a drone in a no-fly zone.

Dave

[Russell Honea]

Has a place and date been set? just trying to figure out my vacation plans.

Thanks
Joe

Hey Joe,
If Tulsa were to be given the opportunity to host the TT, we would be looking at Labor Day Weekend, that would give everyone, especially the Juniors an extra day for travel.

Russell

[Carl Cisneros]

Scott

I thought Dick lived in WV
not Arlington

Carl

[Scott Richlen]

Team Trials at the Mall would be a bit unrealistic.  However, in years past, CL contests were held at Bolling AFB just across the river from where the Mall is.  I do not know if there are still runways there or not, but it was a great facility for CL.

Bolling is mostly office buildings now.  No place to fly at all.

Actually, Team Trials at the Mall is only unrealistic as long as no one pursues it.  There are all kinds of things held on the Mall.  It is just that no one at the Air & Space Museum can see the connection between model airplane flying and full-size aviation.  We are a nation that has been taught to look at its shoes, not up.

I thought Dick lived in WV not Arlington

Dick lives in Stephens City VA.  He has not been deported to WVa.  You are thinking of John L.  We deported him to the hills and stills of WVa near Harpers Ferry....

[Carl Cisneros]

Scott

thats right, got it backwards.

was just a wondering as the listing for each district shows Dicks address as Arlington

[Scott Richlen]

was just a wondering as the listing for each district shows Dicks address as Arlington

Yup, they need to update it.

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

The National Mall does host a Kite Festival at least once a year.  There are some folks who classify CL aircraft as kites, as they are tethered.

I can recall Bolling AFB and Anacostia Naval Air Station next door well, as I won a CL combat contest there back in the day on a technicality (opponent's streamer did not unfurl.)  Opponent was Howard Rush, who offered an unofficial rematch, on the spot.  I regret calling it a day and not flying that rematch, as it would have been good training at the time.  Had I been thinking well, might have requested more of a demo/training match, as my typical practice flying did not include multiple planes.

Today I am training to fly stunt.  The person who has been coaching me is Scott, also on this thread.  Our field is hidden away, 5 acres among 800 down a 1/2 mile driveway, 20 miles or so from the National Mall.

[BillLee]

Hey Joe,
If Tulsa were to be given the opportunity to host the TT, we would be looking at Labor Day Weekend, that would give everyone, especially the Juniors an extra day for travel.

Russell

(Not sure where it went, I posted this once before.)

Keep in mind that Dallas has a traditional contest on Labor Day weekend, and having the Team trial that close by would be quite disruptive. It's one thing to be in Muncie on Labor Day, quite another to be in some major contest's backyard.

Then two weeks later, September 14-15 the DMAA will be hosting the F2C Team Trials.

I think that Tulsa would be best served for support from outside by choosing any of the other three weekends in September, or even perhaps early October if the traditional Tulsa "last weekend of September" isn't chosen.

Regards,

Bill Lee

[Howard Rush]

Hold on. Nobody should set a date for anything until the Stones tour is rescheduled.

[Brett Buck]

Hold on. Nobody should set a date for anything until the Stones tour is rescheduled.

   It's quite a show, if none of their oxygen bottles run out.

    Brett

[Bob Reeves]

(Not sure where it went, I posted this once before.)

Keep in mind that Dallas has a traditional contest on Labor Day weekend, and having the Team trial that close by would be quite disruptive. It's one thing to be in Muncie on Labor Day, quite another to be in some major contest's backyard.

Then two weeks later, September 14-15 the DMAA will be hosting the F2C Team Trials.

I think that Tulsa would be best served for support from outside by choosing any of the other three weekends in September, or even perhaps early October if the traditional Tulsa "last weekend of September" isn't chosen.

Regards,

Bill Lee

Not that my opinion caries any weight but you are asking Tulsa to trade the convince of those traveling maybe 1500 miles to compete in the team trials because a few local guys might attend the TT rather than go to a Dallas contest. We need to hear from some of those that would be effected as I no longer fly competitively.

[Will Hinton]

   It's quite a show, if none of their oxygen bottles run out.

    Brett

Brett, THAT is likely your best ever comment!!!  Loved it!

[Ken Culbertson]

Not that my opinion caries any weight but you are asking Tulsa to trade the convince of those traveling maybe 1500 miles to compete in the team trials because a few local guys might attend the TT rather than go to a Dallas contest. We need to hear from some of those that would be effected as I no longer fly competitively.

My opinion carries even less weight but those attending the team trials will have to travel the same 1500 miles regardless of when it is held.  The convenience of the 3 day weekend is nice but the tradition of the Dallas Labor Day contest goes way, way back.  It was already a "tradition" when I first flew stunt there as a Senior in 1963 when it still had the "Southwesterns" title.  At least three clubs have maintained that tradition over the years.  The weather in Tulsa is not all that different from Dallas.  We have decent, even preferable, flying weather well into November.

My reasons have a bit of a personal element.  I can't travel for family reasons so the two Dallas contests, at least for now, are my season.   Still, I hope Tulsa gets awarded the trials and that they schedule them on any weekend OTHER that Labor Day!

This is what happens when things that should be scheduled a year in advance are put off until it is too late to even plan them properly.  This is something that could be resolved with a 15min teleconference.  PAMPA and the AMA should be ashamed.

I have always been curious why we don't schedule the team selections in conjunction with some of our larger contests?  I am sure there is a good reason other than the different scoring systems which could be addressed.

ken