super clown electric kit convert back to glow ?

[Kevin M. Smith]

I have a super clown electric kit (ARF) that I bought a few years ago that has been sitting around in storage.  I just bought a  fresh O.S. 35 and I'm thinking about going with that instead of an electric system.  Does anyone know if it is easy to mount an engine/tank in the electric kit fuselage ( I may want to convert it back to electric at some point.) - or is it a totally different fuse front end ?   (Note I don't have access to the kit at the moment.)...

[john e. holliday]

Do a search on Super Clowns.   I would say get a kit that is set up for IC power.

[Kevin M. Smith]

I saw someone did an unboxing youtube and it does look like the fuse would have to be modified to convert back to glow.   I'll have to research the electrics for C/L.  Have never built one...only sailplanes and heli's   ...  I don't know what you mean by IC power ?.... 

[Dane Martin]

I converted mine. An OS 35 would be way too powerful, although very fun sounding. I put an enya 15 on mine. I'd go with maybe a 25. Someone crashed mine and the wing broke at the battery box. It was easier to just eliminate the battery box to fix the wing, so I decided to go with an engine.
The reason I tried such a small engine is because I have one my friend gave me with a Fox 35. Way to much power. It's just not necessary.

So all I did was notch out some section of the nose and epoxied in some maple motor mount blocks. I made them kinda long. The tank is just held on with outdoor adhesive tape and a bunch of rubber bands.

So it's possible. If you don't have any electric gear, then a conversion is cheaper. But this little ARF is a nice flyer. Like I said, I have two. Only one was originally electric.

[Dane Martin]

Oh, the wing battery box will be your only concern if you wanted to convert it back. I only eliminated mine because of a crash. It's the weakest link in a crash. To convert it back to electric, I'd actually look at the battery box / motor mount Brodak has. That would be my choice over the wing box.

[Dan McEntee]

I saw someone did an unboxing youtube and it does look like the fuse would have to be modified to convert back to glow.   I'll have to research the electrics for C/L.  Have never built one...only sailplanes and heli's   ...  I don't know what you mean by IC power ?....

    IC+ Internal Combustion.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Mark Mc]

Kevin, take my advice with a grain of salt, as I'm still in the crashing stage.  I bought a Super Clown electric ARF early last year or late the year before because I wanted to try electric, and at the low price of the plane I figured it wouldn't hurt when I crashed it.  I don't know about the two that Dane got, but the build quality on mine was terrible.  The firewall/nose ring was glued on crooked, and I had to cut it off and re-glue it properly.  Also, the filler balsa wood around the nose ring to give it shape and strength was terrible.  There were two gaps where there was no wood at all, so I had to cut some filler and glue it in.  Hopefully your kit is better than mine.  Even after fixing mine and glassing the nose, I still haven't flown it.  I just have no faith in it (or no desire after the initial disappointment), and keep thinking about converting it myself for a .25 LA-S.

Since you haven't built yours yet, it'd be a Super Clow easy conversion.  Here's how I've been looking at doing it:
1)  From someone on here (maybe Dane), find out how far from the leading edge of the wing the maple engine bearers extend.
2)  Cut off the nose ring.
3)  Sand down the balsa on the right side of the nose so that it's flush with the doubler and parallel with the left side of the fuse.
4)  Cut out the triangular balsa stock from the motor area that was holding the nose ring in.
5)  The divider between the cutout area for the speed controller and the area for the motor is just balsa between the ply doublers.  Just draw your lines for your maple engine bearers and cut through the divider, then glue the bearers to the left side ply doubler.  Like Dane, I'd make the bearers long.
6)  Fill in the rest of the open area behind the engine space with balsa.
7)  Cut away the covering and put a tripler on either side of the fuselage.  Thickness of your choice.
8 )  Iron on some Monokote over the opening in the top and bottom of the wing behind the battery slot.
9)  Fill the battery opening in the wing leading edge.  How you do it depends on how weight conscious you want to be.  For strength I'd just cut a block of balsa that'd fit the opening between the wing ribs and then sand it to shape with the wing leading edge.  If you wanted to save some grams, you could cut a piece of square balsa stock the same size as the front spar and glue it in, then cut some 1/16" balsa sheet to sheet the opening top and bottom.  Or the balsa block sanded to shape and then hollowed out.  For the time and effort expended, and the kind of plane this is, I would just go with a solid block sanded to shape.
10)  Re-cover or paint the nose, and then mount gear, tank, and engine.


Not that I've thought about this much...

Mark

[Dane Martin]

The glo version I have is pretty old. Several years, but I'm not the original owner. That one is nice. The electric one, I believe had the same issues you describe. I actually assembled it as a new plane for someone else. They gave it back to me unflown to fly a pattern flight in an electric demo. After the flight, they told me just go ahead and keep it! The motor ended up flying out of it on the third flight. Nothing bad happened. So I fixed it and my cousin crashed it later. I opted not to fix it stock, because the motor shaft broke.

Any info I can provide, no problem. However.....
When I flew it electric, I loved it. If it helps sway any deciding, I might suggest to fly it electric. It's honestly pretty cool.

[Kevin M. Smith]

I converted mine. An OS 35 would be way too powerful, although very fun sounding. I put an enya 15 on mine. I'd go with maybe a 25. Someone crashed mine and the wing broke at the battery box. It was easier to just eliminate the battery box to fix the wing, so I decided to go with an engine.
The reason I tried such a small engine is because I have one my friend gave me with a Fox 35. Way to much power. It's just not necessary.

So all I did was notch out some section of the nose and epoxied in some maple motor mount blocks. I made them kinda long. The tank is just held on with outdoor adhesive tape and a bunch of rubber bands.

So it's possible. If you don't have any electric gear, then a conversion is cheaper. But this little ARF is a nice flyer. Like I said, I have two. Only one was originally electric.

Thanks for that info....I'm glad you suggest a less powerful motor because I just won used (new in box) O.S. 35 fp and I was going to use that.. I'm actually oscillating between electric and glow.  I have chargers at home for my blade heli and sailplanes that I have flow, so some of the investment is there already. would just need the battery pack, motor and speed controller (or whatever is used.).    I am curious though - the nice thing about the Fox and OS engines I used (which would have been about 43 years ago :-) I used to set for a fast four cycle and you would get a nice transition to two cycle on a climbing maneuver.  This idiosyncrasy as a byproduct of this simple, somewhat primitive, setup actually works really well !!   I'm wondering if  the electric C/L setups have solved this problem ?  Is there an attitude sensor in the speed control/timer that increases RPM with pitch ? - or is it just constant speed ?  If it is constant speed, you probably not going to get a smooth of pattern as you would with a glow engine.   I would imagine competition guys have solved this though...need to research..

[Kevin M. Smith]

Kevin, take my advice with a grain of salt, as I'm still in the crashing stage.  I bought a Super Clown electric ARF early last year or late the year before because I wanted to try electric, and at the low price of the plane I figured it wouldn't hurt when I crashed it.  I don't know about the two that Dane got, but the build quality on mine was terrible.  The firewall/nose ring was glued on crooked, and I had to cut it off and re-glue it properly.  Also, the filler balsa wood around the nose ring to give it shape and strength was terrible.  There were two gaps where there was no wood at all, so I had to cut some filler and glue it in.  Hopefully your kit is better than mine.  Even after fixing mine and glassing the nose, I still haven't flown it.  I just have no faith in it (or no desire after the initial disappointment), and keep thinking about converting it myself for a .25 LA-S.

Since you haven't built yours yet, it'd be a Super Clow easy conversion.  Here's how I've been looking at doing it:
1)  From someone on here (maybe Dane), find out how far from the leading edge of the wing the maple engine bearers extend.
2)  Cut off the nose ring.
3)  Sand down the balsa on the right side of the nose so that it's flush with the doubler and parallel with the left side of the fuse.
4)  Cut out the triangular balsa stock from the motor area that was holding the nose ring in.
5)  The divider between the cutout area for the speed controller and the area for the motor is just balsa between the ply doublers.  Just draw your lines for your maple engine bearers and cut through the divider, then glue the bearers to the left side ply doubler.  Like Dane, I'd make the bearers long.
6)  Fill in the rest of the open area behind the engine space with balsa.
7)  Cut away the covering and put a tripler on either side of the fuselage.  Thickness of your choice.
8 )  Iron on some Monokote over the opening in the top and bottom of the wing behind the battery slot.
9)  Fill the battery opening in the wing leading edge.  How you do it depends on how weight conscious you want to be.  For strength I'd just cut a block of balsa that'd fit the opening between the wing ribs and then sand it to shape with the wing leading edge.  If you wanted to save some grams, you could cut a piece of square balsa stock the same size as the front spar and glue it in, then cut some 1/16" balsa sheet to sheet the opening top and bottom.  Or the balsa block sanded to shape and then hollowed out.  For the time and effort expended, and the kind of plane this is, I would just go with a solid block sanded to shape.
10)  Re-cover or paint the nose, and then mount gear, tank, and engine.


Not that I've thought about this much...

Mark

Thanks much for taking the time to outline those steps !   I have not looked at the kit contents too closely, but some of the hardware looks cheap and I am likely to replace some of it.   The monokote (or solarfilm ?) covering on the fuse came wrinkled but that is to be expected with temperature changes.  Like you, I am interested in a plane that I don't have that much investment in time, so if I crash it, I'm not going to cry about it.    I also just received a new Ares kit from Brodak.  the wood looks OK - I'm hoping that it is of good quality. I have heard on this forum that the Brodak kits are supposed to be good.  At any rate, they are a small  company and very few like this left, so I want to support them !

[Kevin M. Smith]

The glo version I have is pretty old. Several years, but I'm not the original owner. That one is nice. The electric one, I believe had the same issues you describe. I actually assembled it as a new plane for someone else. They gave it back to me unflown to fly a pattern flight in an electric demo. After the flight, they told me just go ahead and keep it! The motor ended up flying out of it on the third flight. Nothing bad happened. So I fixed it and my cousin crashed it later. I opted not to fix it stock, because the motor shaft broke.

Any info I can provide, no problem. However.....
When I flew it electric, I loved it. If it helps sway any deciding, I might suggest to fly it electric. It's honestly pretty cool.

You're kind of talking me into it :-) I really like the idea of electric and I do like the sound, but I need to learn about the systems for C/L - so I'm looking for some resources. 

[Kevin M. Smith]

    IC+ Internal Combustion.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Ah OK....got it...

[Dane Martin]

Thanks for that info....I'm glad you suggest a less powerful motor because I just won used (new in box) O.S. 35 fp and I was going to use that.. I'm actually oscillating between electric and glow.  I have chargers at home for my blade heli and sailplanes that I have flow, so some of the investment is there already. would just need the battery pack, motor and speed controller (or whatever is used.).    I am curious though - the nice thing about the Fox and OS engines I used (which would have been about 43 years ago :-) I used to set for a fast four cycle and you would get a nice transition to two cycle on a climbing maneuver.  This idiosyncrasy as a byproduct of this simple, somewhat primitive, setup actually works really well !!   I'm wondering if  the electric C/L setups have solved this problem ?  Is there an attitude sensor in the speed control/timer that increases RPM with pitch ? - or is it just constant speed ?  If it is constant speed, you probably not going to get a smooth of pattern as you would with a glow engine.   I would imagine competition guys have solved this though...need to research..

The fox would be better suited for that, but the 35 FP is not like those older foxes. It's monumentally more powerful. Lol. Good engine to have, I would say just set it aside for a plane a little more deserving of a great engine. Lol.
There's lots and lots of electric stuff available. Only limited by what you want to spend I suppose. I'd recommend something simple, just get you back flying. Then build yourself something amazing while you practice with the super clown. If you do end up electrifying it, perhaps send Dennis Adamisin a PM on here. He'll steer you in the right direction for super easy set up for this specific application.

[john e. holliday]

May I also make a suggestion that you go to the electric portion of this forum and start reading.   Contacting Dennis Adimisin will get you going faster in reality as he designed those set ups.

[Tim Wescott]

Thanks for that info....I'm glad you suggest a less powerful motor because I just won used (new in box) O.S. 35 fp and I was going to use that.. I'm actually oscillating between electric and glow.  I have chargers at home for my blade heli and sailplanes that I have flow, so some of the investment is there already. would just need the battery pack, motor and speed controller (or whatever is used.).    I am curious though - the nice thing about the Fox and OS engines I used (which would have been about 43 years ago :-) I used to set for a fast four cycle and you would get a nice transition to two cycle on a climbing maneuver.  This idiosyncrasy as a byproduct of this simple, somewhat primitive, setup actually works really well !!   I'm wondering if  the electric C/L setups have solved this problem ?  Is there an attitude sensor in the speed control/timer that increases RPM with pitch ? - or is it just constant speed ?  If it is constant speed, you probably not going to get a smooth of pattern as you would with a glow engine.   I would imagine competition guys have solved this though...need to research..

I haven't used the OS 35FP, and it's before my time, but if it's good for CL stunt at all, it'd be good in something roughly Nobler-sized.  If a Fox 35 is too much for a Super Clown, then a 35FP is way too much.

The word on electrics and engine speed is that if you use a constant-speed setup (i.e. a Hubin timer and an ESC with a governor, or a KR timer with it's built-in governor) then you'll get flight characteristics roughly equivalent to a pretty good motor setup.  The constant speed motor makes for prop braking on the downhill side, which regulates speed, somewhat.  If you're getting Really Good with the 'lectric stuff, then you can fly even better with a Burger or Fioretti timer, which sense the aircraft speed and regulate the motor speed.  Each has claimed advantages and disadvantages, but the Burger system has been used (to my knowledge) by more world champions.  Either of the regulating timers is also way more complex to set up -- so you probably want to start out with a timer from Will Hubin or Kieth Renicle (KR).

If you do some searching through the posts in the "Getting all Amped Up" forum you'll find lots of information on what timers and ESCs to use under what circumstances.

[Brett Buck]

I have a super clown electric kit (ARF) that I bought a few years ago that has been sitting around in storage.  I just bought a  fresh O.S. 35 and I'm thinking about going with that instead of an electric system.  Does anyone know if it is easy to mount an engine/tank in the electric kit fuselage ( I may want to convert it back to electric at some point.) - or is it a totally different fuse front end ?   (Note I don't have access to the kit at the moment.)...

   As we discussed, the 35FP will be very tough to tame in that airplane, although you have a better chance with a 35FP than a 40FP.

    I have plenty of well-broken-in 20FPs (including one run on Wesson Oil and gasoline) that would be a better bet, I think. You are welcome to one as an indefinite loan (return when you are done using it).  Depending on how much it weighs, even a 15FP might be a better bet, because the airplane is pretty darn small.

    Brett

   

[Mike Scholtes]

Forget the Wesson oil, go directly to mustard seed oil. Any of the Dijon blends will perform well. This is a trick I learned just this weekend.

Kevin, not to be a wet blanket or similar cliche, but there are far better flying planes, from which you will learn a lot more, than the early 1950s vintage Clown. The Primary Force (orange-winged model you saw at Alameda) would be outstanding, but needs something more like LA25 or FP25 or Enya 30. These are readily available cheap or on long-term loan locally. Of course a Sig Skyray or Flite Streak are great and simple builds but a bit twitchy. Brodak has a P40 ARF (not sure in stock or not) that would be a great next model, maybe with LA46. There is endless discussion of good model and engine combinations for retread CL flyers on the forum. Point is you can source everything you need quickly and locally from the Bay Area stunt community.

Before anyone jumps in to ream me about how great things were in the early 1950s, I was there and know better now.

[Larry Fernandez]

 The Primary Force (orange-winged model you saw at Alameda) would be outstanding, but needs something more like LA25 or FP25 or Enya 30. These are readily available cheap or on long-term loan locally.

[/quote]
The Primary Force that Mike speaks of was build for breaking in a bunch of Aero Tiger .36's I came across
You would be doing me a big favor if you flew the hell out of that plane and broke in four motors for me.
About twenty flights for each motor should suffice.
Think about it.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Larry Fernandez]

   As we discussed, the 35FP will be very tough to tame in that airplane, although you have a better chance with a 35FP than a 40FP.

    I have plenty of well-broken-in 20FPs (including one run on Wesson Oil and gasoline) that would be a better bet, I think. You are welcome to one as an indefinite loan (return when you are done using it).  Depending on how much it weighs, even a 15FP might be a better bet, because the airplane is pretty darn small.

    Brett

Just wondering, have you ever run one on methanol and mustard?
Jeff Anderson would love to hear how that worked out for you.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

   

[Brett Buck]

Kevin, not to be a wet blanket or similar cliche, but there are far better flying planes, from which you will learn a lot more, than the early 1950s vintage Clown.

    I suggested that Kevin continue on (with a different engine) because he has the airplane now, and get in the air sooner, rather than take more time trying to get a better airplane. I would guess the Super Clown could be flown this weekend with a little effort. It will suffice for basic maneuvers, and, truth be told, if he doesn't crash it pretty quickly, he's not trying hard enough. Then, maybe change to something we think might fly better.

   It's one thing if you are flying all the maneuvers and getting ready to enter a contest. Kevin has flown 45 seconds in the last 43 years. Airtime is more important than a "better" airplane, and there's nothing stopping him from getting this one ready, flying it, while working towards something else - or, deciding he has other things to do.

Before anyone jumps in to ream me about how great things were in the early 1950s, I was there and know better now.

    No argument from me, the Good Old Days(tm) sucked and the only thing suggesting otherwise is Aldrich's "the older I get the better I used to fly" effect.

    Brett

[Brett Buck]

   Larry, for goodness sake, why aren't you able to nest your quotes properly? It happens *automatically*.

[Mike Scholtes]

Right, I did not mean toss the Clown in the dumpster. By all means, put a suitable engine on it and use it as the sacrificial goat.

If Kevin is as motivated as he seemed, he may have it flyable in a week or two. Its gonna be a rocket with anything more than a 15 on it. Unless we are talking Fox 15. I know where there are four of those proudly mounted on a wall.

And I don't know how to nest quotes either. There, I've said it.

[Kevin M. Smith]

Hi Mike ,  After considering the comments and work to convert it, I think I will stick with the electric system (as recommended by a few replies in this thread.).    I have the lipo chargers (from electric heli flying), so I'm part way there on investment.  I have an O.S. 35 but that is going to be way to powerful (I think the skyray with the .25 that I flew on the weekend was definitely fast enough for me !!..)

Looking forward to flying with you guys...

[Fredvon4]

Kevin

you got to fly and got jazzed... very cool

zoom around here on SH a bit

Brett has advocated building three identical planes ( I think the Sig SkyRay) and BBTU....a euphemism for a nearly perfect engine set up based on the OS Max FP 20

His reasoning is fly one, crash, learn. Get out the next one, do better, crash learn. Take a short break and glue the first crash. Pull out #3 while Epoxy dries on first one, crash learn. Re-balance and fly first one...get tired, land safely....go home with good or fixable planes....do NOT wipe grin off face have a cold one and try to remember the lessons
 
I totally suck at building a warp free wing so for $59 I bought a Phil Cartier (Core House) Rugged Stunt Trainer and several sets of spare foam wing cores

This model, without a fancy finish, can be assembled in a day....hell the fuse is bass wood and does NOT REALLY need to be painted... but I did simple rattle can Rustoleum... pretty fuel proof in 24 hours....better after a week of cure

OS Max FP .20 or .25s as well as OS LA 25s can still be found reasonably priced

BUT for NOW Brett is offering one of his perfect BBTU engines....he just wants it back when you are done and finally got several of your own

IN your shoes, I would get a Sky Ray from Sig...they are CHEAP and easy to build
Or a Core House RST--- faster to build and go play airplane with all your new friends

The Clown converted, or as is, can wait

BY the way , the offer to fly the Primary Force engine test mule is one I would not hesitate to do either

I have 2 of Mike Pratt's kits for it right here..... tried and tried to get the ARF  version..... every body likes that plane for how well it flies

[Kevin M. Smith]

It amazes me at the amount of well-informed responses I get on this forum.  I wish other forums (that I use for my professional work ) were as good as this :-)

I don't have a shop set up here in San Jose...so getting into a build (kit or scratch) is going to take me a lot more time to get in there air and Brett and the guys up in Alameda got me interested when visited there on Sunday and flew Brett's skyray (albeit for a few minutes, but safely :-)

I was able to get the clown out of storage and unfortunately, the front end of the fuse would have to be rebuilt for glow I think. It wouldn't be hard , but it would be way easier just to stay with an electric setup. (I have chargers and soldering irons up here already).  Another option would be just to order another ARF that is glow and take Brett up on his offer and use one of his engines... (maybe ringmaster ?)....  a  third option would be to all brodak and have them send me a glow clown fuse they have one :-)  too many options...just need to get flying ..ha ha

[Fredvon4]

Kevin

This is just me--- and my reason was a bit diff from you situation....I have a full shop but can't seem to build a good wing

Building a good Sig Twister or SkyRay does require a dedicated building set up, glues, and finishing equipment..and TIME
Building a Rugged Stunt trainer is demonstrably easier and they fly pretty much the same
I would claim the RST more durable

You need the kit from Core house   I think $58 plus reasonable shipping
http://home.earthlink.net/~philcartier/index.html
Call Phil becaus the RST is not listed on his web site   717-566-3810  6-10 pm EST

While you have Phil on the phone tell him what you want to do...He has a LOT of stuff not on his web page... he might have an ARF you would like

The RST is foam wing, bass wood fuselage, balsa tail---- very fast build plane that includes all the hardware and SLC covering needed except engine, tank, and landing gear

There is absolutely NO need to make this plane pretty... I do NOT glue in my wings but rather use 1" strip of Gorrilla tape to hole the wing in place

Built to plan, this craft usually balances just right and flies off the board good enough the the minor tweeks/trimming are minimal

Brett has the engine for you
30 min Epoxy....only glue really needed...some CA would be cool
household iron or model iron
one can Rustoleum any color but not metallic or clear
Landing gear from Eric Rule RSM
http://www.rsmdistribution.com/building-15.php?menupage=building.htm
axles and wheels
3 oz or 2.5 oz fuel tank.....bet a bunch of bucks Brett will add one with the engine

Or Rsm has a 3oz hard tank, tower has all sorts, and Brodak has all sorts....nobody has the recommended Hays BBTU tank any more
I recommend any of the 3oz plastic clunk tanks

Of all the planes I ever built, this one is pretty hard to screw up... and the fastest way I ever got one out of the shop and in the air

[John Craig]

  
I agree with everything Fredvon4 has to say about the RST from Core House. Great flying plane with an 20-25 FP or LA. With a landing gear & wheels it thinks it is a stunter; without a combat plane. It takes abuse with the ground & keeps on flying like a combat ship. It took 4 very hard whacks with the ground before I broke off the front end & had to do a major repair. It is flying again! A great confidence builder for me. I can even do a very high ugly outside square on a good day.  Beginner pattern is recognizable. Great price, quick to build, can take a beating.

What more could a sport flyer/beginner want?