Stiletto

[Gary Anderson]

Hi, I have just completed the frame work on a Stiletto. Weighs 40 ounces with merco 49, magnum 6 1/2 ounce tank. Two and a quarter inch wheels. I plan on covering with silkspan and will have a dope finish. I have a four inch bellcrank installed and using ball joints. I build this plane according to plans,(660 size wing), is there any changes I should do before I start the finish process? Anyway, I would appreciate any comments, Thank you Gary.

[Leester]

Just one comment: " WHERE"S THE PICS ?? "

[Terry Bolin]

I would be intrested in pictures also. I bought a set of plans from the Stuka guys last month to build from. Seems like I used to see several of these planes in pictures but not co much anymore.
Send some good pictures of the frame work and then of coarse, the finished product!
Thanks, Terry B

[Bill Little]

From Les McDonald, I got the tip to add a touch of area to the elevators.  He used clear plastic tabs on one of his last ones.

Bill <><

[Leester]

OK Bill whats a touch ? Please not TLAR lol

[Bill Little]

OK Bill whats a touch ? Please not TLAR lol

IIRC, 1/4"-3/8" all the way across.

Bill <><

[rustler]

There's two types of c/case with Merco 49's, Mk.1 & 2 (light case) and the rest, (heavy case). Just possible either might need a little tailweight, (moreso "the rest").

[Gary Anderson]

The Merco I'm using in the Stiletto weighs almost 11 ounces. Its the twin plug and Mr. Frank Bowman rebuilt it for me. I have some Merco 61's and they have the same bolt pattern. I'm using the 49 because it doesn't seem to burn much fuel and has a real nice 2-4 cycle. I need to find a tongue muffler for this motor. It doesn't have muffller lugs but has the idle hole in the center of the exhaust. Can one be made to bolt thru the muffler so I don't have to put extra holes in the cowl? Don't tell anybody that Merco 61's and 49 are pretty motors and they would love the way they sound on the ground and in the air. Back in the sixties Mr Jerry Chaney started using Merco 40's in his Noblers and convinced most I know that is the motor and I still think they have a place in our sport. Thank you Gary

[Gary Anderson]

There's two types of c/case with Merco 49's, Mk.1 & 2 (light case) and the rest, (heavy case). Just possible either might need a little tailweight, (moreso "the rest").

Hi, I just weighed each type Merco I have, the square bottom weighs an ounce more than the round bottom Merco. They seem to run the same but an ounce of weigh is alot to deal with. The one Merco 49 I have has a black head and the outside of the  cylinder is chromed. Its a twin plug, pretty motor, the other 49 weighs ounce less. Same goes for the 61's I have, square bottom weighs an ounce more. Mr. Frank Bowman has rebuilt all five of my Merco's and they all run just great. Thank you Gary

[Bill Little]

Hi Gary,

Scott Riese has made me some very nice mufflers (tongue) that work very well and bolt into the hole in the exhaust port splitter.  I will have to check as to whether or not Scott is a member here.  Reasonable and fast turnaround!

[Randy Powell]

And it is such a pretty plane

[RandySmith]

Hi, I have just completed the frame work on a Stiletto. Weighs 40 ounces with merco 49, magnum 6 1/2 ounce tank. Two and a quarter inch wheels. I plan on covering with silkspan and will have a dope finish. I have a four inch bellcrank installed and using ball joints. I build this plane according to plans,(660 size wing), is there any changes I should do before I start the finish process? Anyway, I would appreciate any comments, Thank you Gary.

Hi Gary

Les used a much lighter engine than you have chosen, it would be a good idea  to increase  the STAB  chord by 1\2 inch all the way across  and  the  elevator chord by 1\4 inch all the way across.  This  will help  to start, control , and  stop  the turn
Is the  40 ounce  weight  total  with the engine and  hardware install in the airplane?  or  how  much  does  everything weigh  at  this  point?
You will most likley  onlu use  about 5.5 ounces in that motor setup so you can shed a little  weight by using a smaller tank if this  turns  out to be  correct

Regards

Randy

[Gary Anderson]

Hi Gary

Les used a much lighter engine than you have chosen, it would be a good idea  to increase  the STAB  chord by 1\2 inch all the way across  and  the  elevator chord by 1\4 inch all the way across.  This  will help  to start, control , and  stop  the turn
Is the  40 ounce  weight  total  with the engine and  hardware install in the airplane?  or  how  much  does  everything weigh  at  this  point?
You will most likley  onlu use  about 5.5 ounces in that motor setup so you can shed a little  weight by using a smaller tank if this  turns  out to be  correct

Regards

Randy

Its complete with engine, magmun 6 1/2 ounce tank, wheels, prop and spinner. I haven't installed canopy or top deck. Spoke with Phil Juarez, who has made several beatiful Stiletto's. He told me which canopy he is using. I have to finish covering and I was hoping to keep her around 56 ounces, complete. Fingers crossed and thank you for your comments, Gary

[Bill Little]

Hi Gary

Les used a much lighter engine than you have chosen, (snip)

Regards

Randy

Hi Randy,

What engines did Les use other than the K&B 40?  Curoius.....

Thanks!
Bill <><

[RandySmith]

Hello

That will be  a very good  weight for teh 660 if  it comes in at  55  or  so ounces, Look forward to seeing yours  finished.

 Hi Bill Les used  St 46s  and  K&B 40 light case motors that Stan Powell made for him, both are  lighter than the  Merco 49

Randy

[Bill Little]

Hello

That will be  a very good  weight for teh 660 if  it comes in at  55  or  so ounces, Look forward to seeing yours  finished.

 Hi Bill Les used  St 46s  and  K&B 40 light case motors that Stan Powell made for him, both are  lighter than the  Merco 49

Randy

Thanks, Randy.  I knew about Stan's K&B 40s, but I wasn't aware that Les used the .46.   I was kinda guessing that he did, but wasn't sure!

Bill <><

[Gary Anderson]

Hi Gary

Les used a much lighter engine than you have chosen, it would be a good idea  to increase  the STAB  chord by 1\2 inch all the way across  and  the  elevator chord by 1\4 inch all the way across.  This  will help  to start, control , and  stop  the turn
Is the  40 ounce  weight  total  with the engine and  hardware install in the airplane?  or  how  much  does  everything weigh  at  this  point?
You will most likley  onlu use  about 5.5 ounces in that motor setup so you can shed a little  weight by using a smaller tank if this  turns  out to be  correct

Regards

Randy

Hi Randy, Stiletto has full flaps, equal wing panels. Hinge line to hinge line seventeen inches. Flaps at fuse side three inches and taper down to one inch at wing tip. Each flap is twenty-five and one half inches long. Full up thirty-three degrees deflection, same down. Control cables moves one inch to achieve this deflection. Elevators are two and five eight inches at fuse side and taper down to one and five eights inches at end of stab. Each elevator is thirteen and three quarter inches long. They also have a thirty-three degree deflection. Using a four inch bellcrank, made control horns. Center of control horn to center of connecting rod is one and one eight,  height. Using 4/40 ball joint connectors. Flaps and elevator is connected together at control horn. I believe this would be one to one? Question: is the 33 degree deflection enough for the Stiletto? Should the control cables move more than an inch to achieve this amount of movement? I know trimming is a big factor in how much control is needed for movement. I was just wondering, because I've seen some planes that looked like the flaps and elevators has a movement of 90 degrees. Just another dumb question, Gary

[RandySmith]

Hi Randy, Stiletto has full flaps, equal wing panels. Hinge line to hinge line seventeen inches. Flaps at fuse side three inches and taper down to one inch at wing tip. Each flap is twenty-five and one half inches long. Full up thirty-three degrees deflection, same down. Control cables moves one inch to achieve this deflection. Elevators are two and five eight inches at fuse side and taper down to one and five eights inches at end of stab. Each elevator is thirteen and three quarter inches long. They also have a thirty-three degree deflection. Using a four inch bellcrank, made control horns. Center of control horn to center of connecting rod is one and one eight,  height. Using 4/40 ball joint connectors. Flaps and elevator is connected together at control horn. I believe this would be one to one? Question: is the 33 degree deflection enough for the Stiletto? Should the control cables move more than an inch to achieve this amount of movement? I know trimming is a big factor in how much control is needed for movement. I was just wondering, because I've seen some planes that looked like the flaps and elevators has a movement of 90 degrees. Just another dumb question, Gary

HI Gary

The 30 to 33 degrees is  OK  you will not use all of that unless it comes out extremely nose heavy,
But the only 1 inch movement does concern me, that seems to be  very quick controls??  Did you measure these parameters:
1 what is the output arm lenght on the bellcrank? lenght from pivot to pushrod....
2  What is the height of the flap horns holes at the flap pushrod and stab pushrod...

mine moves a lot more than an inch

Randy

[Gary Anderson]

Hi Randy, Stiletto has full flaps, equal wing panels. Hinge line to hinge line seventeen inches. Flaps at fuse side three inches and taper down to one inch at wing tip. Each flap is twenty-five and one half inches long. Full up thirty-three degrees deflection, same down. Control cables moves one inch to achieve this deflection. Elevators are two and five eight inches at fuse side and taper down to one and five eights inches at end of stab. Each elevator is thirteen and three quarter inches long. They also have a thirty-three degree deflection. Using a four inch bellcrank, made control horns. Center of control horn to center of connecting rod is one and one eight,  height. Using 4/40 ball joint connectors. Flaps and elevator is connected together at control horn. I believe this would be one to one? Question: is the 33 degree deflection enough for the Stiletto? Should the control cables move more than an inch to achieve this amount of movement? I know trimming is a big factor in how much control is needed for movement. I was just wondering, because I've seen some planes that looked like the flaps and elevators has a movement of 90 degrees. Just another dumb question, Gary

HI Gary

The 30 to 33 degrees is  OK  you will not use all of that unless it comes out extremely nose heavy,
But the only 1 inch movement does concern me, that seems to be  very quick controls??  Did you measure these parameters:
1 what is the output arm lenght on the bellcrank? lenght from pivot to pushrod....
2  What is the height of the flap horns holes at the flap pushrod and stab pushrod...

mine moves a lot more than an inch

Randy

Hi Randy, yes I measured them, on bellcrank from pivot to push rod hole is 7/8 inch. Flap hole is 1 1/8 height. This is the way I have made most of my control set-up's. This one seems to be quite quick. Check throw on the up side and down side. One inch and have full up or down. The only different in my control system is the use of ball joints. Ball joints make for smooth movement but I think I'll have to do a lot of trimming for this set-up? I have never installed control horn that was one to one, always a different lever point. Plan showed tying push rods together, so I installed them off of the control horn, thru the same hole. Cross fingers and hope! I'm afraid tracking will be lots of fun. Maybe start out a little nose heavy? The way I used to hook up my controls, was to leave elevator control horn hole a little loose so you had some play so would help tracking.

[RandySmith]

"""Hi Randy, yes I measured them, on bellcrank from pivot to push rod hole is 7/8 inch. Flap hole is 1 1/8 height. This is the way I have made most of my control set-up's. This one seems to be quite quick. Check throw on the up side and down side. One inch and have full up or down. The only different in my control system is the use of ball joints. Ball joints make for smooth movement but I think I'll have to do a lot of trimming for this set-up? I have never installed control horn that was one to one, always a different lever point. Plan showed tying push rods together, so I installed them off of the control horn, thru the same hole. Cross fingers and hope! I'm afraid tracking will be lots of fun. Maybe start out a little nose heavy? The way I used to hook up my controls, was to leave elevator control horn hole a little loose so you had some play so would help tracking. """""

HI

My controls are setup with the bellcrank arm at 3\4 inch  which is slower than yours  and the  Flap horn at 1.25 inch which is again slower than yours, I would not like to try to fly one that is setup really fast like your controls are.  what I suggest is to  use a  handle with the spacing at about 3.75 inches apart, do not try to make the plane  nose heavy to slow it down, as you will pay for it when the wind blows... Nose heavy planes really suffer in winds.
I think you can trim out the fast controls with the smaller  line spacing in your handle
Please let us  see pictures  and  let us  know  how it flys

Regards
Randy

[Randy Powell]

>>I think you can trim out the fast controls with the smaller  line spacing in your handle<<

I would say that's true to a point. I made the mistake of using the control hookups marked on a set of classic plans. 2 to 3 hookups flaps to elevators. Luckily the plane was light and didn't need too much flap. But I kept squeezing the line spacing down trying to slow the controls down. I reached a point where the controls were still too fast, but I had also lost most the control feel. Happens when you get below 3 inches of spacing sometimes. It was a weird sensation. You can trim out a lot of fast controls, but only to a point.

[Gary Anderson]

Hope I'm doing this right, should be a picture of my Stiletto, Gary

[Richard Grogan]

Gary,
You probably need to convert it to a .jpg file for most folks to see it.Just open you pix, and save it as a .jpg file.
R

[Bill Little]

The picture does need to be a jpeg, I do believe.  Otherwise it is simply a matter of "Additional Options", "browse", "open", and enter. 

Bill <><

[Gary Anderson]

Hi, I have just completed the frame work on a Stiletto. Weighs 40 ounces with merco 49, magnum 6 1/2 ounce tank. Two and a quarter inch wheels. I plan on covering with silkspan and will have a dope finish. I have a four inch bellcrank installed and using ball joints. I build this plane according to plans,(660 size wing), is there any changes I should do before I start the finish process? Anyway, I would appreciate any comments, Thank you Gary.

I hope this picture comes through. I'm in the finishing stage, just wanted to see if I can post a picture of the frame work. Gary

[Richard Grogan]

I hope this picture comes through. I'm in the finishing stage, just wanted to see if I can post a picture of the frame work. Gary

Sweet!

[Leo Mehl]

I think you can use a Super Tigre tounge muffler on this engine an drill a hole for a 4-40 or 6-32 bolt and also tap the center hole in the exhaust stack for either size bolt. I did this on my Supre Tigre 60. and it has never came loose or vibrated. Has been rock solid for 7 years. The only thing that anoies me about it is getting the bolt in the right place when you  put Muffler on engine but I think I am getting impatient in my old age.

[Gary Anderson]

Hi guys, this is the type setup I used to get the one inch lead-out movement. I still haven't finished her, she ready, I have concerns about the flap to elevator ratio (one to one), seems like a lot of flap, compared to my other ships. I've been busy flying my other junkers, this summer, I'll get busy and finish her up. Just worried about the controls. Maybe I can get Franks voodoo to help keep me from crashing, Ha Ha. I guess I could take her out to fly without painting color on her she has several Coates of clear.

[Jim Morris]

Just a quck question.What type of fuslage jig is that and are they available?

[Bill Little]

Just a quck question.What type of fuslage jig is that and are they available?

Hi Jim,

That looks like the section that comes with the Adjusto Jig set up that's OOP.

I got one of Byron Barker's fuselage jigs......... I would have to use a torch and a 12 lb sledge hammer to hurt it!  Absolutely dead solid perfect!

[Jim Morris]

Thanks Bill. Didnt want to change toppics here, so back to the original broadcast program. Oh by the way Stiletto is one cool name.

[Bill Little]

Thanks Bill. Didnt want to change toppics here, so back to the original broadcast program. Oh by the way Stiletto is one cool name.

One cool name and one cool flying model!

[Allen Brickhaus]

I can also attest to Byron Barker's C.F. Slattery fuselage jig. 

Allen Brickhaus

[Bill Little]

I can also attest to Byron Barker's C.F. Slattery fuselage jig. 

Allen Brickhaus

Thanks, Allen, I forget the "C.F. Slattery" a lot it seems, not on purpose!
it's justr that Byron is such a cool guy and makes such great stuff.   He's one of he *best kept secrets* in the hobby!!

[Mike Pick]

Sweet!

Hi, saw your picture and it seems a little different to mine. I was given a fairly old kit (with bits missing) and some pretty poor wood after finishing  a friend's KA 10 for him. The plan says world champ etc., but mine shows 3/16 sides with no lightening holes, and solid flaps. I have remade the fus sides in 1/8th and thrown away the mahogany style bottom block. I have never built a tail heavy plane so don't know if the lightening holes or built up flaps are necessary for me. Is yours based on the original or modified? I have an MVVS Akrobat 49 rear exhaust waiting to go in, which is not a really light motor, but it's going in anyway! I will use the usual beefed up controls and really want to use a 4" bellcrank, but I have read about that elsewhere in this forum. I would also like to fit fus mount UC for obvious reasons. I don't want to fly it in classic, so it will probably end up much modified and looking like something else! I would be interested in any hints or comments about building/flying.

[Gary Anderson]

Hi, saw your picture and it seems a little different to mine. I was given a fairly old kit (with bits missing) and some pretty poor wood after finishing  a friend's KA 10 for him. The plan says world champ etc., but mine shows 3/16 sides with no lightening holes, and solid flaps. I have remade the fus sides in 1/8th and thrown away the mahogany style bottom block. I have never built a tail heavy plane so don't know if the lightening holes or built up flaps are necessary for me. Is yours based on the original or modified? I have an MVVS Akrobat 49 rear exhaust waiting to go in, which is not a really light motor, but it's going in anyway! I will use the usual beefed up controls and really want to use a 4" bellcrank, but I have read about that elsewhere in this forum. I would also like to fit fus mount UC for obvious reasons. I don't want to fly it in classic, so it will probably end up much modified and looking like something else! I would be interested in any hints or comments about building/flying.

Hi Mike, I've changed several things about my Stiletto. I guess just to different, I'm sure it doesn't need to be changed. I build my fuse around the engine I'm going to use. Hollowed out the fuse sides, made panels to adjust controls. Moved the canopy back, (different style canopy). I have a kit but build mine scratch with light wood. Just having fun. thanks for the comments, Gary

[Mike Pick]

HI MIke. Was or is your kit an old M&P kit of theStiletto?  They, M&P, put out two versions of the Stiletto and there is another kit, but I forget who put it out. Different sizes and rudder shapes. 

Yes I think it was one of those kits. It is from the 60's or early 70's I think. The previous owner had filled in the spar holes with spare balsa and cut new ones closer to the LE because the sheeting was a little narrow. Needless to say, they are in the bin. I think the best wooden feature of this kit is the stab and elevators, which was completed. Unfortunately, it should be a bit wider according to many, so that might end up in balsa heaven as well!
Thanks for the response.

[Mike Pick]

Hi Mike, I've changed several things about my Stiletto. I guess just to different, I'm sure it doesn't need to be changed. I build my fuse around the engine I'm going to use. Hollowed out the fuse sides, made panels to adjust controls. Moved the canopy back, (different style canopy). I have a kit but build mine scratch with light wood. Just having fun. thanks for the comments, Gary

Hi, thanks for responding. It seems that I will go down your route as well, with the only original design feature being the wing, which has unequal panels. I note that others have equal ones, so which is the original? Unlike other enthusiasts, I think the fus is pretty ugly and whilst I see the structural aspect of the spine, I think it looks pretty naff. Now a moulded top shell all faired in would do the trick, but then it's not a Stiletto any more is it? I am an unashamed kit basher and normally build from plans. I cannot bear to build in faults and obsolescence so my planes always turn out "original." I have built three Buccanneers with turtle decks, ducted cowls and built up wings with flite streak style tips, so you will see what I mean!

[Gary Anderson]

Hi Mike, post some pictures of your baby. I would love to see them. Some have build the stiletto with a ares type wing and that looks very cool. I have a complete different canopy and it changes the looks quite a bit. Good luck and let me know how your's turns out, Gary