News:



  • July 09, 2025, 11:36:03 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Starting essentials "the right stuff"  (Read 4991 times)

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« on: November 10, 2015, 04:21:42 PM »
Help please.  What is needed to get started?  Buying the right thing once is my goal.  I just purchased  Sig Skyray and Akromaster  kits.  All I have are the kits.  Looking for a start from scratch list of needed items.  Again, I don't want to upgrade later, just buy right the first time. 

Thank you,
Reece

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12907
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 04:35:07 PM »
What's your goal?  Sport, stunt, broken stuff on the ground?

Do you you want to fly glow or electric? 

Do you build already, or do you need to set up a workshop?

Have you flown control line ever?

Did you buy a Skyray 35 or their little 049-powered Skyray?

Sorry for answering your question with questions, but we need to drill down a bit.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 04:51:19 PM »
Thank you Tim for the beginning of my list.  Understanding the thought process. Step one.
My goal is to learn how to fly without hurting myself or others. 

One of my fondest memories of this hobby are of the sound of the engines.  As a spectator.  So no electric yet.

I just ordered my kits a few hours ago. The small Skyray. 

I have only flown a ready to fly plastic cox .049 in the 1970's when I was in the sixth grade.  If my memory serves me, I was an expert stunt national champion after about six attempts.
 
Which one should I start with?  Small Skyray or Akromaster.

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 04:56:29 PM »
If I bought the wrong kits to start, I am open to buying something different.  I just don't want to spend a fortune on something that is going to be crashed.

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12907
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 05:32:45 PM »
The best thing that you can get is a coach.  If you get one, then if he or she says something diametrically different from what I say here, go with your coach.  I know there's guys from Florida that fly, but I don't know how close Port Richie is to anyone.

Neither of those planes is necessarily all wrong, but each one presents its own difficulties.

049 engines are hard to start and run well, 1/2-A sized planes are harder to fly, and their lap times are lower, meaning you'll get dizzier.  From that perspective the Skyray is going to be more difficult.  But the Skyray is smaller, it'll be easier to find a spot to fly, and it'll be less expensive in materials and fuel to get it in the air.  Also, because it's all solid, if you're flying over wet ground and tall grass it'll have a greater chance of bouncing rather than breaking.

The Akromaster will need more space, and the wing construction will be more prone to breakage when you thump it.  It'll use more materials and fuel, but it'll be more solid in the air and the engine will be easier to handle (Many people feel that planes like the Akromaster are at the minimum size to be a "real" plane).

Whatever you get won't be the last plane you build before you've learned to fly -- if you're not ready to spend a lot of time in the shop rebuilding, don't start learning to fly control line (or buy lots of ARFs from Brodaks).  A coach -- particularly someone who'll hold your hand in the center of the circle for the first few flights -- will be a big help.

There used to be 15-sized planes with solid balsa wings, but I don't know if you can still find such things.  If you could find something like that you'd get something more crash-proof while still being more "real sized".

As far as what you need:

For the Skyray, you want to plan on an old-style dope finish.  Build the plane, slap two or three coats of clear dope on it, and go fly.  The motor's obvious.  You want to get fuel with at least 15 percent nitro -- up to 25% is not unreasonable (someone will come on and say up to 35% isn't unreasonable -- and they may not be wrong).

For the Akromaster, get a roll of Ultracoat for the wing.  Decide whether you want to paint the fuse and tail with dope or cover it with Ultracoat -- each has it's downsides (it takes some expertise to cover a profile fuse with Ultracoat, dope smells up the place).

For the Akromaster, keep in mind that it was designed in the mid 1970's and when they say ".15 to .19 engine" they mean old style engines -- the plane would probably fly great on an OS 10LA, but an OS 20FP (nearly a .19!) would practically rip the wings off.  Your best bet would probably be to buy an Enya 15 off of eBay -- don't hesitate to get one with an RC carburetor: you can wire it open initially, and get a CL venturi for it later.  Put it together with a 2 ounce clunk tank, follow the directions otherwise, and have fun.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Dan McEntee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 06:01:21 PM »
  Hi Maurice;
   Sounds like you are getting back in by picking up 1/2A or .049 size planes again like in your youth. Some may advise against that, but if that is where your heart is, go for it. learn to use the search functions of this and and any other web site you may frequent. There really are no new problems and most stuff has been covered many times before. Stunthanger has a separate section just for 1/2A stuff so that is where you might hang out the most.
   If you have engines, then all you need is the kits. All kits have been modified or kit bashed before by many, but most will perform OK as built to the instructions and plans, especially SIG kits. The 1/2A Skyray  is capable of at least the entire beginner pattern, if doing the tricks is what you want to achieve. I taught my son the beginner pattern with a bare bones 1/2A Skyray because it was cheap and easy. I told him that if you can do it with this airplane, you can do it with any airplane. If SIG doesn't put the rubber band mount for the engine in the current kits, research that here on the forums. It's the single best modification you can do to it. The rubber bands take up the shock of impact on crashes. It was originated on the old Goldberg Wizzard and that model is currently put out by Brodak,  I believe, or plans can be found on ebay for the original.
   If you get your flying chops back with the Skyray, the Akromaster is a good logical next step. as mentioned already, any of todays .15 size engines will fly it nicely, or if you have an older Fox .19 that will handle it also. A common modification for the Akromaster is to NOT cut off the spares, leading and trailing edges as the instructions call for. Just contiue out with the full length and cut some extra ribs from scrap balsa. The main thing I find with most kits is that they can be kind of sensitive with controls that move too far too fast. This can be addressed with longer bell cranks and longer control horns to slow things down. Use the inner hole of the bell crank and the farthest from the control surface for the control horn. You only need about 25 to 30degrees of movement in each direction for good control and stunt ability on a properly balanced model.
   And most of all, don't get in a big hurry! You don't learn to drive a car at Indianapolis on Memorial day! Pay attention to small details and big details will be lots easier. Build straight models. You can learn how to build light models as you go along, but building a straight model is more important in my opinion. learn about alignment and there is lots of stuff on here about trimming when the time comes. But to "get out of the box" and get you feet wet again, concentrate on building straight airplanes. And as someone mentioned, find some flying buddies! They have probably already made the mistakes you are getting ready to make and can greatly straighten out the learning curve for you a bit. Plus it's LOTS more fun flying with flying buddies that by yourself.
   Once you get back in the air and have some success, you will wonder why you didn't keep up with the hobby before! Have some fun with the rest of us!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
   Florissant, MO
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14502
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 06:10:18 PM »
If I bought the wrong kits to start, I am open to buying something different.  I just don't want to spend a fortune on something that is going to be crashed.

  Don't worry too much about getting the "wrong" kits. To start with, just about anything will get you enough performance to learn the basic flying skills. It's much more important to get stick time. Surprisingly simple airplanes can perform well enough to compete to even the local expert level.

  BTW, *engines* and getting good engine runs are far more important than the details of the airplanes.

   Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12907
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2015, 08:20:09 PM »
A common modification for the Akromaster is to NOT cut off the spares, leading and trailing edges as the instructions call for. Just contiue out with the full length and cut some extra ribs from scrap balsa.

Spars, not spares.  Sorry -- I try not to do the compulsive proofreading thing, but in this case I thought it might mislead.

Maurice, Brett says the most important thing is stick time -- but I say it's perseverance, without which you'll give up after the first crash, and miss out on that stick time.

Aside from that, at your level, the most important thing is to get anything flyable into the air and learn how to keep it there until the engine runs out, then land without damage.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Rick Bollinger

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 300
  • AMA 931589
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 09:49:35 PM »
Brodak has the flightstreak trainer. All profile including the wing can be easily built in a weekend. It also flies well with a la 15. when you outgrow it put the 15 on the ackromaster. Same length lines everything. My 10 year old soloed on his this year. There is also the Sig shoestring same deal 15 size great trainer here is both.
Rick Bollinger
AMA 931589

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 10:51:53 PM »
Spars, not spares.  Sorry -- I try not to do the compulsive proofreading thing, but in this case I thought it might mislead.

Maurice, Brett says the most important thing is stick time -- but I say it's perseverance, without which you'll give up after the first crash, and miss out on that stick time.

Aside from that, at your level, the most important thing is to get anything flyable into the air and learn how to keep it there until the engine runs out, then land without damage.
sound enough words,, but may I add,, Dont overthink it,, for beginnings, simple straight and reasonable weight,, nothing fancy, dont reinvent the wheel. There is a plethora of information on the right way, Brett is a pretty good source for simple setups,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline rich gorrill

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 393
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 05:57:06 AM »
Hi Maurice, to get back to your question "what do I need", You will needa building board, ceiling tile will work, pins, glue, wax paper, razor blades, xacto knife, small hand saw, paint, many choices available, these are basic building essentials. for flying you'll need motors, check e-bay many available, control handle, flying lines, Dacron for small plane .012 x 52 ft. for the akromaster, a starting battery, many re-chargeable models available, fuel, props, assorted hand tools. Most fo the items you need are available thru Brodaks or Tower Hobbies. Have fun, with the lack of hobby shops most items have tobe mail ordered.  Almost forgot a selection of sand paper available at home depot.

Rich

p.s. as said previously try to find someone in your area experienced in building and flying. They can be a great help when getting started. Most are generous to a fault helping new guy's to the hobby.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 06:14:07 AM by rich gorrill »

Offline Larrys4227

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 468
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 07:07:36 AM »
Maurice --- Probably the closest group to you would be the MCRC club in Ellenton.  Several of their members are here on SH and have a great flying circle.  Very knowledgeable too.

I would be about 2 hours away from you, in Mulberry FL

Offline EddyR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2574
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 12:34:42 PM »
Maurice I use to live in Holiday right next door to where you are. I flew for years with the Tampa Bay Line Flyers who now are joined with a RC club in Bradenton just over the Skyway bridge. They have a dedicated cl circle. Back in the 1970's Dunedin was a hotbed of CL flying but it is all gone now.
Ed

Here I found a link to there site http://www.manateerc.com/
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline proparc

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2390
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 02:39:59 PM »
This should be a sticky "Getting Started". Obviously, it's too late for guys like me lol LL~ LL~.

But, maybe it can help some newbies. We could sure use them.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2015, 07:12:53 PM »
Thank you for the unbelievable response.  Wow, what a great group of people.  I spent the day at work asking everyone who caught me on the interweb about this subject, and fifteen out of fifteen, did not know what control line flying was.  It made me sad.  I will be introducing a whole group of new young video playing pups to something new.   Hopefully, Sig will give me a group discount. 

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14502
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2015, 07:54:42 PM »
Thank you for the unbelievable response.  Wow, what a great group of people.  I spent the day at work asking everyone who caught me on the interweb about this subject, and fifteen out of fifteen, did not know what control line flying was.  It made me sad.  I will be introducing a whole group of new young video playing pups to something new.   Hopefully, Sig will give me a group discount. 

    Hmmm, doing a group project may need a different answer.  What was your ultimate goal? Just to be able to safely get up and down? Or learn to fly stunt, or combat, etc?  It actually doesn't matter too much at this point, as long as it is just you. You need to learn basic flying skills, including the basic stunt maneuvers including inverted flight.

    If you are planning on a group effort, then the approach is a bit different.

     Brett

Offline Pat Chewning

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 137
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2015, 09:31:43 PM »
Well I just "re-entered" control line flying (last time was 1970 or so...).     I built the Brodak Akromaster and used the entire length of spars and leading edges to get more wing area.   I've had a HUGE amount of fun and the most valuable thing I ever did was hook up with the local club -- Portland Oregon Fireballs.   I started my Akromaster using a vintage McCoy .19 engine and under guidance of the club members quickly changed it out for an OS .15 LA engine which is easier to start, more consistent to run, and includes a nice quiet muffler.

I've crashed it 3 times, some extensively and I just keep re-building it.

Things you will need (or want) to get.   (BTW, Graves RC in Orlando has lots of CL equipment and is not too far from you).

A means to put fuel from the gallon jug to the tank in a measured volume -- I suggest a syringe.
A "bucket" from the HW store and a "bucket tool holder" to hold the tools and gizmos at the field.  The gallon of fuel goes in the bucket.
A glow plug starter and charger (I suggest the twist-on style rather than the "plunger" one).
A "chicken stick" or a heavy glove to protect your hands while starting the engine.
Extra propellers, perhaps even in different pitches.  For the OS .15 and Akromaster, I'm using 8X4 prop.
Lines of 52 ft long and .012 diameter.
A good handle (Graves RC has an adequate yellow handle for CL -- the same one I use)

As mentioned before, your best chance of success will come by joining a local CL flying club and/or getting advice (and used equipment) from another flyer.   The very generous members of the Portland Fireballs have supplied me with LOTS of equipment and advice.

Do not spend any time making your plane look nice when building it.  It will get crashed and look like this.   Then you get to fix it.



Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22992
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2015, 02:01:24 PM »
Great advice,  I vaguely remember joining the Flying Eagles of Kansas City Kansas per Mr Brooks who flew my big plane for me the first time.  Then one of the members in the club telling me don't worry about looks, learn to build light and straight.  I think that was Mr Meriwether.   Learn real fast when you have some one to fly with.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Eric Viglione

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2015, 03:03:44 PM »
Help please.  What is needed to get started?  Buying the right thing once is my goal.  I just purchased  Sig Skyray and Akromaster  kits.  All I have are the kits.  Looking for a start from scratch list of needed items.  Again, I don't want to upgrade later, just buy right the first time. 

Thank you,
Reece

Hey Maurice, I'm down the road from you in Clearwater as Eddy mentioned. You should come fly with us (or watch) some Sunday morning at MCRC (see the link Eddy posted for directions).

It is the closest club dedicated C/L circle.

If a picture is worth 1000 words, then seeing a group fly live is worth 100X that. It's 40 miles one way from my doorstep to MCRC, takes me about an hour. You are a little further up the road, but not much.

EricV



Offline peabody

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2866
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 03:38:01 PM »
Welcome Maurice
The MCRC is having a Swap Meet next Saturday (Nov. 21st)
There will be some "must haves" available there.....
I suggest something like a 35 size plane....they are MUCH easier to fly than 1/2a"s
The MCRC has a CL trainer, too

Have fun!

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 07:57:34 PM »
I received my kit today . It is a box of wood with no real direction.  I am still  not sure what is needed to assemble.  This is going to be much more difficult than I thought.   

Online Dan McEntee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2015, 08:05:55 PM »
I received my kit today . It is a box of wood with no real direction.  I am still  not sure what is needed to assemble.  This is going to be much more difficult than I thought.   

   Which kit? 1/2A Skyray or Akromaster? Either one should fall together, just study the plans and instructions. I like to study the plans and any written instruction and build the plane in my mind so that I have most of it figured out before I cut the first piece of wood or punch out the first die cut piece. You are just getting started so don't let it intimidate you. Examine each step, and as you complete a step, think about how what you just did leads into the next step, and if that will present any problems to you. If it helps, write out notes to yourself as you think about it, it may help with establishing the procedure in your mind.
   Relax and have fun with building, you'll catch on.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2015, 08:23:16 PM »
Eric, when is the best time to come observe?  My number is 727 288 3347 if you want to text.

Offline Maurice Thorne

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2015, 08:36:51 PM »
Does anyone know of a link or tutorial on how to build and or tools and materials needed to build.  I need basics.  And by basics, I mean basics. I do not know how to crawl, walk, or run.

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2687
    • My Tube channel
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2015, 09:02:29 PM »
Hi Maurice, welcome to control line flying.
It has to be one of the most fun hobbies that branch into so many directions that there are special variations of it to interest everyone. Not surprisingly, all of the advice offered so far is spot-on. There are lots of good how-to sources for reading, so I'll let someone else answer that question, and it looks as if you have some helpful guys in your area. We CL folks take great pleasure in helping eachother out.

A great forum resource that loves to get beginners started is a small friendly forum you'll see below in my signature. Click on that link to Cox Engine Forum, and you'll have even more guys piling on to help you out, and mailing you helpful tidbits. Also talking on the phone if that's good for you. It's not only Cox oriented, as the name suggests, but the full range of CL things you'll be interested in. I've checked with Robert, the owner of Stunthangar, and he's okay with me directing members over there. Lots of us frequent both forums.

I look forward to watching and helping you learn and enjoy. Do searches, but don't be afraid to ask the most basic questions.
Good Luck,
Rusty Knowlton
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12907
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 09:56:56 PM »
Does anyone know of a link or tutorial on how to build and or tools and materials needed to build.  I need basics.  And by basics, I mean basics. I do not know how to crawl, walk, or run.

There are a number of build threads on this forum -- search for threads with titles that have "building" or "building a (something)".  Concentrate on the ones where people are building profile airplanes -- full fuselage planes are cool, but way more complicated.

In fact, if you're good with taking pictures and posting them, you could do a build thread of your own -- call it "beginner builds a ...", and make it clear that you're looking for information, not trying to educate the world.  We'll all look over your virtual shoulder and call out suggestions.  It'll be up to you to decide which suggestions to take, but I think you'll find it helpful.

You can get by with far fewer tools than you might think -- the bare essentials are a single edged razor blade, some sheets of sandpaper, a paintbrush, and a small screwdriver.  Next would come a dedicated building board, a dedicated bench or table to build on, a hand drill, and so on -- but you can build either of those two airplanes mentioned with the bare essentials.

For materials you could get by with a bottle of carpenter's glue (Titebond 2 is, I think, the right one to recommend), a can of model airplane dope, a can of dope thinner (or lacquer thinner), and some paper towels.  Beyond that, some 20- or 30-minute epoxy would be handy for gluing the joints that really need to be strong (mostly the motor mounts), but it's not necessary.

If you've never built a flying model airplane before you may want to start with the Skyray after all.  Even if you never get it into the air it'll teach you a lot about how to get the job done.

Read lots of posts in the building techniques forum: http://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/

And lots of build threads:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/ringmaster-build/
http://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/fancherized-twister-build/

This one might be especially helpful:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/new-build-series-thought-to-finish/
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Dan McEntee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 11:17:55 PM »
   Some of us have been at this for a long time, have accumulated a lot of tools and learned a lot, so we may be a bit jaded to the real newbie. So after thinking about my own building experiences, here is what I call the basics:
   1) Some form of #11 hobby knife. Lots of these to choose from and several brands. Pick one you like or just get the least expensive. Commonly called "Exacto Knife" like all adjustable wrenches are called "Crescent Wrenches." Might want get a couple of them, they seem to get lost on the work bench! Get replacement blades by the box of 100. It may seem expensive, but you will learn that a nice sharp blade is worth it. Makes the job easier and safer also because you don't have to force a cut.
   2) Pins. Dress maker pins or some sort ofo pins from the Hobby Shop. Dubro has a decent price of a couple of different sizes of T pins. I prefer T pins.
    3) Glue. Glue is like any other tool, you have to learn how to use it. Instant glue, which is referred to as "CA" glue, lets you work fast, but doesn't sand well. You have to learn how much to use, and sometimes using too much cause problems. SIGment, regular Elmers white glue, any form of yellow carpenter's glue, Testors model cement, and even DUCO house hold cement can easily be found, all sand better that CA, and are reasonably priced. CA can be used for quick repairs while you learn how to use it, and I buy it in small bottles because it can go bad after a while, and I keep my CA glue in a empty peanut butter jar with some form of desiccant in it to help keep moister down while in storage once opened. CA can be stored in un-opened bottles in the fridge, but once you open them it is best to use them, and keeping them in the jar helps with shelf life. Moisture is one of the things that kicks off instant glue. Epoxies are used f or high stress joints. I advise getting slow cure to give you time to position and adjust parts. Use 15 or 30 minute epoxy, as I think 5 minute cure too fast for general building. Get it is small bottles also while learning.
   3) Sanding stuff. Most hobby shops have a variety of sanding supplies. Sand paper, sanding sticks and such. I keep 120, 100, and 80 grit paper in my shop, and some finer paper, but the above will get you started. The sanding sticks that some shops sell are pretty handy. Anything that you can stick sandpaper to can become a sanding tool, any shape and size. Sanding tools made form T-bar aluminum stock that can be purchased at the hardware store , and cut in several different lengths is my favorite. Great Planes sells some contoured extrusion bars for such a tool. Attach the sand paper with sparingly applied spray contact cement or rubber cement allows you to reapply new paper later on. Paint stick, balsa blocks, 2 by 4 blocks, round dowls, anything you can glue paper to is a potential tool.
   4) Building board. You need a large, flat surface to start with. A heavy table or desk is good. Check out Craig's List for good bargains on office desks. The surfaces are pretty flat and not prone to warping, and the drawers are handy for storage. I build on celotex drop ceiling tiles. They can by purchased easily and cheaply and replaced when needed. Pins push in easily and hold OK. Don't cut parts on them! Get a small pine board or some sort of scrap lumber or plywood to cut on. The self healing cutting mats are nice also. Cutting on wood can be tricky, as the knife blade sometimes wants to follow the grain in the board. A rubber cutting mat cures that
    5) Straight Edges. Most office supply places sell those metal rulers with cork on the back. Get at one that is 12 inches long, and one that is 18 inches long, and if money allows, get one that is 48 inches long. These will come in very handy for make long cuts on sheet balsa, and for checking alignments. You will learn lots of uses for these. I also keep several of the metal 6" pocket scales on the bench also for short stuff. Harbor Freight Tools is another source for this kind of stuff.
    6) Finishing supplies. There are LOTS of ways to finish off a model. Lots hear on Stunhanger and you can read up and decide which you want to try. For the 1/2A Skyray, I would just use clear dope for the finish. No need for fancy finish jobs on a model you will probably crash a dozen times. Later on, you can always build a "pretty" one!.
   7} Wax Paper. You lay wax paper over plans to keep glue from sticking to the plan. I always make copies of plans so I can cut them up to make it easier to pin structures to the building board. For small structures, rubbing a bar of soap over the joints will work also.
   8) Normal hand tools, such as pliers, small Vice Grips, small screw drivers, small hammer, files and such will become necessary as you progress. A good drill and/or a small drill press can be bought pretty cheaply these days. An extravagance for some, but they help you make accurate holes in fuselage sides for engine mounts. A cheap Harbor Freight battery drill could be used with care also. A simple drill index with a dozen drill bits to go with the drill. Again, Harbor Freight has good deals on stuff that will be good enough for what you need to do. With the Holidays coming up, what the Sears adds also. I will include a razor saw in this grouping also. A razor saw has specific uses and if purchased smartly, you can get by with one that has interchangeable blades for different pitches for cutting different materials.Thick spar stock, leading and trailing edge stock, and even brass, aluminum, and copper tubing can be cut with a fine tooth razor saw.
  9) MonoKote Iron. I just add this because you have a SIG Akromaster, and it has a built up wing, and you may want to use iron on covering for this model. Hobby shops sell special irons for applying iron on films. You can cover the entire model with this stuff and not have to use dope. You just need to be careful and accurate with covering and allow good wood to wood contact when assembling the model structures.
    This may all sound like a lot of stuff, but if you buy it as you go along, it eases the pain, and it will all be usable on the next models you build. You will acquire your own tastes for specific brands, types of tools, and methods of doing things, and that is part of the program and part of learning. If you get involved with a local club, you will be able to see how other guys do things and learn from them also. They have made all the mistakes that you are getting ready to make, so they can help flatten out the learning curve for you!
   Hope this helps,
   Dan McEntee 
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2015, 03:07:34 PM »
Does anyone know of a link or tutorial on how to build and or tools and materials needed to build.  I need basics.  And by basics, I mean basics. I do not know how to crawl, walk, or run.

What kit is it that you bought? Maybe i could do a video build log of whatever kit it is. That way you could see step by step.
 Of course you could subscribe to the "control line craftsman" site also. Robert is doing a build along series on a profile really soon.

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12907
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2015, 03:23:33 PM »
What kit is it that you bought? Maybe i could do a video build log of whatever kit it is. That way you could see step by step.
 Of course you could subscribe to the "control line craftsman" site also. Robert is doing a build along series on a profile really soon.

Sig Skyray (1/2 A version) and Sig Akromaster.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2015, 03:48:55 PM »
Perfect. I'll do the little sky ray first, then the akromaster.

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2687
    • My Tube channel
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2015, 04:49:03 PM »
Dan, your post should be stickied unless there is already one with all that information. That was a good answer to Maurice's question, and a lot of other people too.
Rusty

http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/starting-essentials-'the-right-stuff'/msg425027/#msg425027
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Online Dan McEntee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2015, 08:10:18 PM »
   The 1/2A Skyray is a neat little model, and A LOT can be done with it. My son Sean, the drone pilot, learned the beginner pattern with one we build completely stock except for the Lil Wizard rubber band style engine mount. Powered it with a Black Widow and just a couple coats clear dope. I told him when it was finished to say goodbye to it right away, because it was built strictly to destroy if necessary to learn the pattern. It would do the beginner pattern with ease, just not all on one tank. I told him if he could do it with this little plane, he could do it with any plane. And the rest is history.
  Chris McMillin and his kids, years ago, built one with wing mounted landing gear and spats, kind of mimicking the SIG Magnum. REALLY looked cool! Wish I had a picture of it.
   I have a trainer built from core-plast plastic that is copied from the Skyray, and uses a hardware store ruler for the fuselage and rubber band engine mount. Flies well and is almost indestructible. held together with rubber bands and is much lighter that a Cox PT-19.
   Keep us posted Maurice!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Sean McEntee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 887
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2015, 08:32:39 PM »
  The 1/2A Skyray is a neat little model, and A LOT can be done with it. My son Sean, the drone pilot, learned the beginner pattern with one we build completely stock except for the Lil Wizard rubber band style engine mount. Powered it with a Black Widow and just a couple coats clear dope. I told him when it was finished to say goodbye to it right away, because it was built strictly to destroy if necessary to learn the pattern. It would do the beginner pattern with ease, just not all on one tank. I told him if he could do it with this little plane, he could do it with any plane. And the rest is history.
  Chris McMillin and his kids, years ago, built one with wing mounted landing gear and spats, kind of mimicking the SIG Magnum. REALLY looked cool! Wish I had a picture of it.
   I have a trainer built from core-plast plastic that is copied from the Skyray, and uses a hardware store ruler for the fuselage and rubber band engine mount. Flies well and is almost indestructible. held together with rubber bands and is much lighter that a Cox PT-19.
   Keep us posted Maurice!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

    All is correct, except the one built to learn the pattern on was not COMPLETELY destroyed.  The remains rest honorably in my study at home.  With it are two plaques, both from the 2011 WKSI contest.  One is a 1st Place in Old Time.  This one was momentious because for the first time I, flying a model that I built completely without "parental influence", beat dad, who had no excuse (e.g. bad engine run, old airplane, ect).  The other is a 3rd place in Expert, and was my first placing in that skill class.  Both special occasions, and I'm very happy that I still have a good piece of the airplane that started it all.

     Every year that I attend Kidventure up at Oshkosh, an Air Force buddy of mine and I engage in some friendly blue-on-green competition during the afternoon demonstration. The first year we did it, I built a couple of 1/2A Skyrays and painted them up in their respective branch colors and markings, and we do some sport racing and combat.  They are hot-rods with NV .061s on the front!!  We had some trouble this year with them--winds were heavy and in spite of the excessive power, they were just too light and blew all around the circle.  The next time we do this, I want to build new ones, but blow them up a little bit.  Not really sure to what scale, but you could trace the pieces out on drafting paper, take them to Office Depot or somewhere, and enlarge the drawings.  Use the enlargements as templates and cut out the parts.  Even if you dont enlarge it, I would recommend using the kit parts as patterns.  You can build as many as you need out of that one kit if you do so.

    

Offline Phil Krankowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1031
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2015, 06:07:53 AM »
I'm going to go sideways on you here...

You have a tanked Cox bee engine already?  They are cheap to get.  Get a stunt tanked bee if you don't already have one.  (a remote tank can be used too, but a tanked bee is easy to set up)
coxengines.ca
exmodelengines.com
(or used from wherever)

In the left column are some plans.  The "1/2 A Manwin Trainer" is a plastic sign board with an engine on it.  It flies pretty good.
http://balsabeavers.com/information/information.php

Reinforce all the holes with hot glue, bend some appropriate aluminum to make the engine mount.  The bellcrank, control horn and push rod is the holdup, order some.  Put it together, making sure to relieve the extra plastic in the cut hinges.

Go fly the Manwin, and build the Skyray.  When you can fly out a tank of fuel and do some nice round things like wingovers, loops, and some inverted you are ready to move on to more fragile planes like the Skyray.

Now why do it this way?  The plastic sign will take an afternoon to make the parts and assemble.  Over grass and dirt it is near bullet proof, especially with the holes in the plastic reinforced.  With Cox 6x3 rubber ducky props you can bury the plane in the dirt, flush the engine and go fly in 10 minutes at the field.  The rubber ducky props are soft and survive multiple crashes before being damaged to destroyed.  This plane also launches easily from a wing wrap stooge.  Everything except the bell crank, pushrod, and control horn come from your local big box, or recycle election signs.  

Why build a wood trainer?  Better reaction to control input, better looks, easier to fly overall.  

For lines with the Manwin and Skyray use Powerpro 20# fishing line, braided spectra, using the appropriate connectors and doubled 5-turn uni-knots.  The red Sig handle is pretty good, there are much better.  Throw out the one-screw control horns that come with the 1/2A bellcranks.  Buy similar size 2-screw control horns, they really are worth it as they don't move in ways they shouldn't.

Phil

Offline Steve Helmick

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10272
Re: Starting essentials "the right stuff"
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2015, 10:51:09 PM »
1) Stay away from "Hot Glue Guns". Nasty stuff. Hot, too.

2) Do not even go in the "shop" without wearing real shoes. A #11 Xacto (or similar) will hurt like the devil if it rolls off the bench and lands point down into your foot. Don't ask how I know. Actually, I've never done that, but I've done about everything else possible.

3) When Howard Rush speaks of "Danger Discs", he's not exaggerating. They're tiny, thin and fragile abrasive discs used on 25,000 rpm Dremel tools. Real safety glasses are a real fine idea.

 y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


Advertise Here
Tags: