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Author Topic: Spray guns  (Read 4621 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Spray guns
« on: October 27, 2007, 01:31:51 AM »
I've been doing all my spraying with a small airbrush and an old 1 qt gun that takes about 60-70 psi to operate. I would like to buy a new smaller HVLP sprayer.

This is the one I'm looking at.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46719

What is everybody else using?
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Offline Bootlegger

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 05:21:20 AM »
 n~ #^  I have one and it works well for the colors (base coat and dope) b BUT not good for clear coat as the needle is too small. A pro painter that models showed me that we need a larger needle like in the full size Harbor Freight HVLP gun for the clear coat. I think that needle is 1.4 mm.
  Also have good pressure at the compressor then regulate it at the gun.
   Hope that this helps...
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 06:44:59 AM »
I've been doing all my spraying with a small airbrush and an old 1 qt gun that takes about 60-70 psi to operate. I would like to buy a new smaller HVLP sprayer.

This is the one I'm looking at.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46719

What is everybody else using?

Yes.  That is the smaller one.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 08:43:24 AM »
If I were you, I would also consider a line of spray guns called FINEX. you can even finnd them in Ebay new. they are manufactured by a name brand company and are consistant and reliable. Personally I use Sata MiniJet to spray any big areas of color and my clear as well. however I use them every day to earn money so I can justify the 400 bucks,, for home, I owne the Finex, Last I looked the detail gun HVLP was going fot 79 on the *bay
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 11:09:51 AM »
Hi Clint,
That's the gun I've been using for about four years now and I really like it.  I even use it in place of my expensive professional gun for finishing the custom guitars and basses I build!  I especially like how easily it disassembles for thorough cleaning if you mess up with it.  I would heartily reccomend it.  (You could ask any of my clients playing professionaly about the finish on their instrument.)  Also, I have two sizes of the same gun and use the small touch up gun the most but with a bit more pressure for better atomizing than they recommend.
Blessings,
Will
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 11:33:23 AM »
If I were you, I would also consider a line of spray guns called FINEX. you can even finnd them in Ebay new. they are manufactured by a name brand company and are consistant and reliable. Personally I use Sata MiniJet to spray any big areas of color and my clear as well. however I use them every day to earn money so I can justify the 400 bucks,, for home, I owne the Finex, Last I looked the detail gun HVLP was going fot 79 on the *bay

Mark, is this the one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHARPE-FINEX-300-HVLP-Gravity-Auto-Paint-SPRAY-GUN-1-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43987QQihZ013QQitemZ230184435927QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

There is also a used one listed for 20 bucks but it doesn't list the nozzle size
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 11:50:55 AM »
-Clint-

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2007, 06:16:13 PM »
Clint,
thats the one, that is th efull size one. I also have sprayed with the detail version of that one. Of the nozzle-needle combinations I dont know that you would be hurt by any of the available ones. The problem with a used gun is knowing whether it has been abused. Some people tend to not clean their guns and then, well let us just say, they take abnormal means to get them clean again. The Finex guns are pretty solid peices, with parts readily available and very consistant machining. The machining is the real drawback to the Harbor freight guns IMHO. Some are great and some simply are crap. ya pays your money ya takes your chances..
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2007, 09:13:48 PM »
Clint,

Listen to Mark. He knows spray guns. I've used Sharpe guns before and they tend to be nice, middle of the road guns.

My only comment is, you get what you pay for. Get the best one you can afford and you'll be happier in the long run. I have one relatively expensive gun and two more modest ones. One is a large, cheap Harbor Freight guy with a 15oz metal cup that I use for primer. It has a big 1.8mm tip that passes primer through pretty easily. I have an inexpensive  DeVilbiss SIRW touchup gun with a 1.0mm tip that I use for color. Got that one from SprayGun World on sale. I also have a fairly high end Binks touchup gun that I use for clear. I also use an Iwata airbrush for doing trim.

The Harbor Freight HVLP guns are OK. They don't have the fine atomization and control that you get with better quality guns and can be tempremental around temps and mix, but overall, they aren't at all a bad starter gun and you can get decent results with them.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2007, 11:47:42 PM »
Randy, thanks for the "props" . I have to elaborate just a bit here. Hopefully to put some perspective on this. I dont know for sure what you all are using for engines in your planes. but chances are if you are painting your stuff you arent using dimestore motors safe to say? How about looking at your spraygun this way. It is going to touch every plane you build from now on if you get a decent one. YOur motors may see one or two planes. How can you justify shorcutting a tool that is going to influence arguably the single most visual aspect of your work and labor of love by spending less on it than any of your motors cost? I have seen some of the cheap guns do an ok job, but man, painting is frustrating enough at times, and its pretty good to eliminate variables. If you use an inferior gun, do you have the experience to know if its the gun causing the problem, the thinner, the paint, the air temp, or simply your technique. my personal vote, like Randy says, get the best you can afford, it will serve you well and repay you for the investment. I will never risk the 200 hours or so of labor by using a 20 dollar spraygun to paint it. (yeah I know I have good expensive ones so I dont need to. but my good guns are at work so I have to have something here at home. My choice, a FInex detail gun. ) My SATA minijet at work is a 400 dollar gun, and my Finex is probably 95% as good as the Sata for 20 percent the money. The only drawback to the Finex is that it is kind of picky about being cleaned. IOW, practice good habits, take the fluid tip off and make sure its clean and no paint dries in the machined ports.I dont think that there is anything to be gained by recomending a 400 dollar gun to someone to use in their hobby, just not good economics. The next choice is a quality peice by a name brand, hence the Finex because I have used it and like it. THanks for listening.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 12:44:05 AM »
On the finex guns, can the sizes be changed from 1.4mm to 1.0mm, Or are they fixed sizes requiring you to buy a different gun if a smaller size is needed?
-Clint-

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 10:03:49 AM »
IIRC you would be able to do that by purchasing the fluid tip and needle set. I believe the aircap is the same. HOWEVER, just for the sake of argument, you will probably spend almost the cost of a new gun. In my opinion, which it seems I am so shy about sharing,,  H^^ ok mayhe not, I paint all my planes with the detail gun. The only time I even use a big gun on them is filler coats. All my color and clear is shot with a detail gun. Use whatyoua re comfortable with, but I would consider either just buying two guns one with each size tip, orbuy the fullsize gun with the larger tip, and the detail gun. then you have a versital combination. One other note, due to the different machining styles of aircaps and fuid tips, dont assume that a Binks or Sharpe or Sata 1.4 tip will be the same in all guns there is a dramatic difference in the way they spray.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 10:49:56 AM »
Mark, this must be the touch-up version you have. I'll take your word that these are good products and buy both the 100 and 300 models. Then I'll have 1.0 and 1.4 sizes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHARPE-FINEX-Detail-Touch-Up-MINI-HVLP-SPRAY-PAINT-GUN_W0QQitemZ200165758617QQihZ010QQcategoryZ43987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-Clint-

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2007, 11:08:54 AM »
Clint,
I dont think you will regret it. that is the detail gun I spoke of.Best of luck to you. If I can answer any questions painting is one thing I know a little bit about unlike flying,, sigh,,and well crashing I have down pretty good too.
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Offline PatRobinson

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2007, 12:46:57 PM »
Mark I have a question,

Most of the time when a HVLP set is sold it has a different  type compressor instead of a normal tank compressor and they talk about it delivering air volume with low pressure or something like that . So my question is will a regular compressor work with a HVLP spraygun and do you have to change the set-up somehow.
Pardon my ignorance on the subject but I just had to ask.

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 12:53:05 PM »
Clint,
I dont think you will regret it. that is the detail gun I spoke of.Best of luck to you. If I can answer any questions painting is one thing I know a little bit about unlike flying,, sigh,,and well crashing I have down pretty good too.

Hi Mark,

I have always wanted very good equipment when I am working.  But, I feel it is most imperative to learn how to use the equipment.  Patience, technique, and knowledge of the materials is most important to me.  What 'cha think??
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 01:24:49 PM »
Mark I have a question,

Most of the time when a HVLP set is sold it has a different  type compressor instead of a normal tank compressor and they talk about it delivering air volume with low pressure or something like that . So my question is will a regular compressor work with a HVLP spraygun and do you have to change the set-up somehow.
Pardon my ignorance on the subject but I just had to ask.

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                                                                Pat Robinson

Maybe I should be asking the same question. I have a Craftsman 2hp with a 15 gal tank.
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »
Mark, is this the one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHARPE-FINEX-300-HVLP-Gravity-Auto-Paint-SPRAY-GUN-1-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43987QQihZ013QQitemZ230184435927QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

There is also a used one listed for 20 bucks but it doesn't list the nozzle size

I clicked on this link, and have a different sort of question. There's a "Buy Now" price of $80.00, so why is there a bid for $79.99? Is some knothead trying to save $.001? I'm not an eBay guy, but I'm guessing that if there's a "Buy Now" price, then most the time, the seller has a lot of these to sell, or can get a lot of them to sell, at that price.

And yet, another question. I think it's pretty obvious that you want a fairly good sized cup for clear coating. I also don't think you'd want to run red paint through the same gun that you're also going to use for white??? Is it possible to clean a gun well enough to go from red to white? The spraying I've done has been with boat epoxy, on either speed models, or K&B SuperPoxy on nose pods of F1A's. It didn't clean up real well, but maybe it was me? My approach has been to buy a bunch of the HF guns, so I can have one for red, and one for white, another for clear, etc. If I don't clean one up well enough, I can also heave it out with a clear conscience. H^^ Steve
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2007, 02:24:43 PM »
There are several considerations when it comes to a compressor for HVLP guns. As you would suspect, the volume that the compressor can provide is actualy the most important issue. If say you have two comprossors which are capable of producing the same "amount" of air, then the one with the bigger tank would be most important. YOu use a larger volume of air at a lower pressure so to speak. However in practice, the HVLP gun is  mostly refering to the pressure at the fluid tip and air cap. This is where the work is done. so ultimatly, you can in most cases get by with the same compressor you would use with a conventional gun. The bottom line here is , if you are painting a car, or something large it becomes a real issue. However when you are painting an airplane, if you can spray a coat on the whole plane without a change in airpressure at the gun, you will be ok. That being said, The more the comprossor runs, the more issues you will have with moisture in the lines and in your finish. by way of example, the best shop I ever worked in, had the same size compressor as most shops, ie 10HP I think it was. However they had a 500 gallon tank for air storage. The compressor would run a long time to fill the tank, but then it wouldnt run again forever,, there were days it would only come on twice during the day. what this does is it allows the air to cool down before you release it. Hence the moisture will be more likely to condense and  collect in the bottom of the tank instead of staying suspended in the air to go down the line and end up in your finish. As for what dcompressor will work, read the specs for the compressor, it will tell you the CFM it is rated for. Myself I would want to exceed the need by at least 50 percent to allow a duty cycle and reduce the stress on the compressor. The number you will want to reference this to is the number on the highest tool you plan on using with the compressor, in this case the spray gun. Also keep in mind, that an airhose will dramatically reduce the available pressure at the gun. If you are using a 1/4 inch airhose and its 40 or 50 feet long or worse yet, one of those kinky coiling hoses most compressors come with! you will have to set the regulator at the compressor for something in the neiborhood of 65 to 70 pis to get 45 at the gun. (aproximations here, I dont have my table in front of me that shows actual air loss due to friction) a larger airhose, say going to 3/8 will reduce the problem dramatically.
Bill, your comments about equipment and the quality of same, well yes I totally agree, Most of my wrenchs and sockets are Snap on,, as well as stuff that finds my hand on a daily basis. If it is something I use very infrequiently , I may buy a lesser quality. Steve, with regards to buying inexpensive guns and then you can just throw them away, in my mind, this is like building 5 super clowns to fly stunt with, if they dont fly good just throw it away and try the next one,, lol  LL~ LL~ You may get one of them that actually flies the pattern fairly well, but in the long run its going to handicap you. ThAs for the buy-ity-now thing, well some sellers are really just running retail stores online under the guise of auctions and dont undestand the dutch auction setup. That and I have seen cases where people will "bid up" theese auctions. However if I were going to try to sucker people that way, I would probably start the biding portion a bit lower, once a bid is recieved on a BUY it now auction the option for buy it now disapears. IIRC.
Bill back to your comment, I totally agree within reason. I would say that knowledge of materials, technique and knowing your tools are very critical, however, knowing that the equipment is not handicapping you , is very important. reduce the variables and reduce the problems.  I feel the same way about my flying, I try really hard to have my equipment not be a handicap so that I can judge my flying as it is, and not have to interperated whether its the plane causing the problem or me.
Steve as for different guns for color and clear. Yes the ultimate scenario is to have a primer gun, primers have particulate matter in them and will wear the tip and needle set faster. A color gun, nothing but color, and a seperate clear gun. HOWEver I typically clean my gun good enough that the only time I have a problem is if hte color has pearl, It can be kind of annoying to spray something that is supposeed to be yellow solid color and discover after you spray the clear that somehow you got pearl on your yellow now! (look at my Vector really close) I think I got the questions covered there? I hope this helps, I dont really consider myself an expert, but I have painted custom and production for a lot of years so I know how to make mistakes, and sometimes how to avoid them?  HB~> HB~> %^@
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Offline Keith Polzin

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2007, 09:14:44 PM »

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Spray guns
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2007, 11:32:36 PM »
>>Bill back to your comment, I totally agree within reason. I would say that knowledge of materials, technique and knowing your tools are very critical, however, knowing that the equipment is not handicapping you , is very important.<<

I'll give another example. When my son graduated from high school, me, my sister-in-law and my in-laws went in together and bought him a $2800 Taylor Dreadnaught acoustic guitar. He's a guitar player and now plays professionally. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, I've been playing an old, beat up Washburn for years. It's not a bad guitar as things go, but certainly not in the same universe as the Taylor. After he got the guitar, I played the Taylor a bit. I couldn't believe it. Of course it sounds good, but that really wasn't the point. They thing is obscenely easy to play. I could hit licks on it that Taylor I just can't play on my guitar. It's just better equipment, simple as that.

There's nothing wrong with a cheap, Harbor Freight spray gun. It works and you can get OK results with it. And as Steve points out, if it has problems, you just chuck it and get another one. But it will never do the job a good gun will do. It just won't. You can learn it like the back of your hand and know how to get the very most out of it, but it's just not capable of doing a really good job any more than my Washburn will ever play or sound like the Taylor. It's apples and oranges.

The nice thing about springing for at least a mid level to high end gun is, if you take care of it, you'll never need to buy another. I've used the Binks I've got for probably 10 or 12 years. Painted maybe 15 or 18 planes with it. I've replaced the seals once when I foolishly didn't clean it well after a job. Sigh... The new seals were about $40. More than the cost of a Harbor Freight gun. But I put them in and it's served well since (and I always clean it well now). The Finex gun that Mark recommends is a good, above mid-level gun. With the amount of paint we shoot, it will probably last a lifetime. Diagnosing paint problems is a big enough pain without worrying about the gun.

On compressors. I have a relatively cheap Sears job. 2hp, 15  gallon tank. Rated at 150lbs and, hm, I can't remember the CFM off hand. It has 7/16" lines with 1/2" couplers and a 15' hose. Seems to work fine  It probably clicks on once or twice after initial fill when I paint a plane and I imagine it will wear prematurely and I'll have to replace it. When it goes, I plan to buy a bigger compressor, but for now it works OK.
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