Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones

[Dan McEntee]

     Some of what people are seeing is stuff that is normally there, but they just haven't been looking up!! All the media fluff going on just helps to point it out to them now so any light in the sky is a "drone" now. I see some photos and videos of what are obviously airplanes or helicopters, with red and green position lights and flashing transponder light and other marker lights. Nothing says "HEY!! CAN YOU SEE ME!!!??" than what the federal regulations say you have to have on airplanes these days. Far from being sneaky or stealthy. In one article, I saw one photos that was all fuzzy and blurry but you could still make out an outline of some kind of aircraft and even some trim colors. Next to it was a clear factory publicity photo of a small helicopter that very well have been the same aircraft!! I'm of the belief that this is part of a distraction effort, whether the activity is real and a threat or not. Everybody needs to pay attention to the other goofy stuff going on in Washington!! Like, why did Biden make all those pardons last week? Normally, and outgoing President does that on their last day in office. Makes me wonder who is really in charge now??
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Dave_Trible]

I'd be sort of surprised if they say much.  They've got themselves between a drone and a hard spot.    If they'd have not tried so hard to cozy up to the drone crowd they SHOULD be the ones speaking up.  Just my opinion.

Dave

[Dave Harmon]

Wonder if the AMA will comment.

Probably not as this situation goes against the AMA narrative...and they likely cannot sign up the operators! 

[Dave_Trible]

"Inside baseball" says AMA signed up 12,000 new members this year.   Tail of the tape says about 10% hookup with a club and stay around.  90% leave after about two years.   We can only guess most of that 90% are drone people.   However 12,000 X $48.00 or whatever it is X two years gets their attention when trying to keep the operation going.  Since 'we' are becoming less and 'they' are becoming more the bean counters win.   I do know that when the time comes AMA will send the lawyers to DC and do what they can.   I guess that's what we can hope for.

Dave

[spare_parts]

Wonder if the AMA will comment.

What could they possibly have to offer? Remind everyone to turn on Remote ID if you aren't flying at a FRIA?

[RC Storick]

[Frank Imbriaco]

What could they possibly have to offer? Remind everyone to turn on Remote ID if you aren't flying at a FRIA?

It was purely meant to be tongue in cheek.

[GallopingGhostler]

Maybe this explains why farmers have been making alien crop circles in their European fields?



Since our PTB don't answer, perhaps our farmers should do the same?

[Dave_Trible]

I see that this morning the FAA issued NOTAMs or no drone flying orders for a huge swath of New Jersey through January 17th.   Nothing under 400'.  I believe this will include all RC flying models as well since they are considered drones by regulation.  Here we go.   Be sure you tell the cops you are flying a control line 'kite' not a drone.   They say they will use 'deadly force' to bring violators down and prosecute offenders.

Dave

[Ken Culbertson]

Now that they are being spotted in Texas I suspect a resolution soon.  If they expand with the Amazon strike we will have a clue.  I keep my planes in my office and Tuesday as I was coming back from the field I was asked if my "drone" was one of "them". 

Anonymous

[kevin king]

After a lengthy investigation, the drones were determined to be swamp gas.

[Dave_Trible]

De ja vu all over again.   So in Texas a drone falls on a young boy-  he’s in open heart surgery.   Mom will likely sue everybody like the mom years ago who ran his CL airplane into the power lines…

Dave

[wwwarbird]

De ja vu all over again.   So in Texas a drone falls on a young boy-  he’s in open heart surgery.

Dave

 Huh? Did this happen?

[Dave_Trible]

Yes it did.  It was a lighted aerial drone display for Christmas done by a drone company that does these shows.   They had gotten a special permit  from the FAA for the show since the pilots were flying multiple drones each.  Several collided and came down on the crowd below.  Two or three days ago.

Dave

[Jim Svitko]

Huh? Did this happen?

Yes, in Orlando.  A drone company based in Coppell, TX. was running a drone show.  Something went wrong, some drones went out of control.  One struck a 7 year old boy.  This drone company has done some check out flights at the RC field where our CL circle is.

[wwwarbird]

Yes it did.  It was a lighted aerial drone display for Christmas done by a drone company that does these shows.   They had gotten a special permit  from the FAA for the show since the pilots were flying multiple drones each.  Several collided and came down on the crowd below.  Two or three days ago.

Dave

 Perfect. 

[GallopingGhostler]

I think it is a little early to jump to conclusions. A new administration is taking over in January. Hopefully they will be more responsive than the previous.

It concerns me that many Federal employees have decided to leave or retire early, due to unfavorable internal politics. Among those were ones who cared and bore the burden of getting the work done. I think the US military veterans have been at a dis-service with funding diverted elsewhere. There are other disparities, too.

I don't believe all that I read, as there is more than simply Space-X involved, to include our hobby interests. But, the recent resignation of the FAA head and several others with him hopefully will be the step in the right direction. FAA has completely ignored Congressional law that exempted us by further regulating us, when we are not the problem.

https://dailycaller.com/2024/12/12/michael-whitaker-faa-administrator-announces-resignation-elon-musk-spacex/

I don't know about you, but I am getting tired of all the fear porn about us.

Long time ago, I learned if you dealt swiftly with the offenders, everyone else fell in line and order was restored. This goes for work, school, neighborhood and etc. Stop punishing and harrassing the law abider as a remedy for excusing the criminals.

[Sean McEntee]

My solution: send a bunch of folks who are Part 107 certified up there with nets and other means of which to bring the illegal ones down; call it “The Great Drone War of 2024”, watch movie labels fight over the rights…

[Jim Svitko]

I saw a news article about the drone company that was involved with the incident in Florida.  The FAA has suspended the Part 107 waiver for the drone company.  So, there will be no drone show in Dallas on New Years Eve.

[Ken Culbertson]

Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  We didn't and I let it expire.  Christmas I was presented with a little RC Foamy from my Grandson.  I want to fly it for no other reason than he gave it to me.  They are sort of fun anyway and I have a lot of RC experience from "back in the day".  it looks like a decent motor and esc I might be able to use in a 1/2a size plane after it crashes (they all do eventually).

SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy? 

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

Ken the 'drone certificate' expires every five years-I just recently was sent notice and renewed mine.   I did not take any test to renew.   My bet is if you just go to their website you should be able to pay your $5 and be good to go.    I suppose if you are out in the boonies where you wouldn't be noticed anyway you could just take your chances.   You know thousands of kids got drones and foamies for Christmas and never heard of any rules.   Maybe you can tell the cops you are going through your second childhood.....
Seriously if I had bigger,  heavier RC stuff to fly I wouldn't try it without the credentials right now but a small foamy toy-type I might for the 30 seconds until I tear it up hitting a tree.


Dave

[Dan McEntee]

Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  We didn't and I let it expire.  Christmas I was presented with a little RC Foamy from my Grandson.  I want to fly it for no other reason than he gave it to me.  They are sort of fun anyway and I have a lot of RC experience from "back in the day".  it looks like a decent motor and esc I might be able to use in a 1/2a size plane after it crashes (they all do eventually).

SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy? 

Ken

     Weigh it and if it's under a half pound, or 8 ounces, then no need. More than likely it won't be able to handle any wind, and you are limited to flying in the evening in your yard when it's calm, and will get no further than 50 feet from you. I would just enjoy it and not bother Uncle Whiskers about it.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Frank Imbriaco]

Drones over NJ are no longer in the news. What's sad is that until Jan 17, 2025 the FAA  has grounded model aviation in" select "areas of the NJ/NY metro area. Control line unaffected unless the club is primarily an RC field. I would imagine that affected RC clubs will decide if they're going to remain open for the few that use the field for ukie.  Whether or not that date is extended is anyone's guess.
 The FAA, as we know, has categorized all RC models as drones.  And the AMA, as we know, courted drone activities from the get go and once again, it has come back to bite us in the ass.

[GallopingGhostler]

Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  [...] SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy?  Ken

I received a notice of due to expire. I reregistered. Required me to list at least 1 UAS, so I inputted my 36 inch wingspan half-A Sterling Minnie Mambo rudder only airplane that I still have. Also requires me now to pass a test before I fly and keep a copy of the passing certificate with me.

One of the testing agencies is the AMA. Since I haven't been flying R/C, I haven't taken the test yet.

[Tony Drago]

                            I heard a certain person awhile back say go out and buy/get a shotgun

[Dan McEntee]

I saw a news article about the drone company that was involved with the incident in Florida.  The FAA has suspended the Part 107 waiver for the drone company.  So, there will be no drone show in Dallas on New Years Eve.

   I saw a news headline about 5 of these displays being canceled for New Years Eve. I always thought that these were a pretty risky venture. One drone could have an unforeseen problem, and then multiply that chance by the number of drones involved in the display!!  I wonder if you see fewer of these now? I have not heard nor read how the young boy that was injured is doing after having open heart surgery to repair a heart valve damaged by the impact. I hope he's recovering well.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Paul Smith]

In order to justify legislation, the Gov-A-Mint needs some proof of a problem.
I've heard some lame complaints, but nothing that smacks of due cause.
The people who make and sell drones will bring up this fact if pressed.

I am amused by the substitution of drone shows for fireworks.  Fireworks are clearly dangerous, but cities give permits to professionals to shoot them. 

I can imagine a malfunction in which a swarm of drones goes into a crowd, but that hasn't happened yet.  Anything based on invisible electronic magic can go weird at any time and nobody can ever say why.

[wwwarbird]

In order to justify legislation, the Gov-A-Mint needs some proof of a problem.

 Now that's funny. 

[Sean McEntee]

Wonder if the AMA will comment.

These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable. 

[Fredvon4]

Or was each agency simply training drone operators at night to prepare for Times Square and the Inauguration, both venues where they can augment on-the-ground surveillance?

[Frank Imbriaco]

The AMA Interim Director claims only one club is affected in NJ.
Incorrect.

[Brett Buck]

These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable.

   Of course they are unenforceable. But I don't think that really matters, and it certainly is unlikely to help the AMA/us. Far from it, it is likely to escalate the attempts to "control" the problem, which, as now, only affects the people who are willing to comply - and therefore didn't need regulations in the first place.

     I have no "inside" information about this current "flap" but I strongly suspect that this is not a nefarious plot by a foreign government or terrorists.  The reactions so far are wildly atypical Officer Barbrady "Nothing to see here, move along" sort of statements instead of everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off. If there is a real crisis, you would see various government officials trying to exploit it. And the usual suspects knocking the grandmas out of the way to get their mugs in front of a camera.  I think in a few weeks we will get a plausible quasi-explanation.

    As always, as you said, the current regulations are unenforceable, any new regulation will also be unenforceable. So the regulation only harms or constrains people who are willing to pay attention to it willingly. They weren't and aren't the problem.

      Brett


p.s. And in any case, the AMA is the last bunch I would expect to have any control or influence. They tout their close governmental ties, but they/we are very minor players in drone regulation, and got steamrolled by all the other players, and the general public. The latter is why the entire effort to control drones is happening at all.  The reaction to the New Jersey stuff just shows that regular people *do not want drones flying over their heads* and are demanding action to prevent it. That is an unwinnable fight for the AMA. That the actions are more-or-less just window dressing is beside the point.

[Ken Culbertson]

These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable. 

Never tell bureaucrats that their regulations are unenforceable lest they single you out to prove otherwise. 

Ken

[Paul Wescott]

The media is now reporting that the FAA has admitted that the majority of those mystery drones were authorized research flights.  They are not saying what kind of research.

I wonder if it’s the truth, that the flights were authorized.  I also wonder why the FAA took so long.

[Ken Culbertson]

The media is now reporting that the FAA has admitted that the majority of those mystery drones were authorized research flights.  They are not saying what kind of research.

I wonder if it’s the truth, that the flights were authorized.  I also wonder why the FAA took so long.

New President.  Trump declassified it.

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

I don't think the story makes any sense.   I also doubt the FAA does anything 'classified'.    Maybe a creative answer to an unsolved who-done-it.


Dave

[GallopingGhostler]

Perhaps this may explain it?

https://skift.com/2024/12/12/faa-chief-to-resign-on-trumps-inauguration-day/

Whitaker, a former FAA deputy administrator and former executive at United Airlines, was confirmed by the Senate unanimously in 2023, ending nearly 19 months in which the agency had no Senate-confirmed chief.

The agency has come under scrutiny in recent years for its outdated technology, air traffic controller shortage, a string of close calls and a systemwide outage in January 2023 that briefly halted all flights. The FAA’s previous lack of oversight into Boeing has also come under fire, following the two fatal 737 Max crashes and the Alaska Airlines blowout.

Under Whitaker, the FAA has ramped up its oversight on Boeing, and he has received continued bipartisan support from Congress. [...]

However, Whitaker has drawn the ire of one of Trump’s key allies: Elon Musk, who will co-chair the administration's newly minted Department of Government Efficiency.

In September, Musk railed against Whitaker over FAA regulations halting SpaceX launches. Musk had repeatedly called for Whitaker’s resignation at the time and said the agency should punish Boeing over its botched Starliner launch rather than charge “petty” fines to SpaceX.

Under the previous administration, the FAA was poorly managed as was leaderless through most of the previousness' reign. Plus, they did not take care of real priorities, mostly agendas. The halting of SpaceX was such an agenda, and including regulating model airplane activity against Congress, who previously put into law to leave organized, self regulating modelling alone.

[Brett Buck]

The halting of SpaceX was such an agenda,

   While I am sure that the FAA worked about as well as any other agency during the last 4 years - that is, highly dysfunctional - but putting restrictions on SpaceX is hardly a good example. What has been going on with Starship development wouldn't be tolerated from *any* other group, and the entirely cavalier attitude taken towards regulation and public safety is what has gotten them in so much trouble. There's only so many times you can dump flaming debris into nature preserves or send debris at near-orbital speeds into the international airspace before someone has to step in and be the adults. What they claim they are doing is the same as the Germans wanted to do (Von Braun, etc) - development by test.

       But many of the things they are attempting to "test" are perfectly-well understood at this point, and many of the "test" failures are not in trying to advance the state of the art or shave margin and shouldn't require any "testing" at this point.

     Brett

[GallopingGhostler]

Brett, I hear you.

One thing that has been strange is now the lack of good regulation with the airline industry. The rules have become so convoluted, that one cannot even get a refund or partial refund for certain tickets, non-transferrable to another family member, etc. Plus, the rules for even getting a simple receipt to the payer if booking for another family member doesn't happen. It seems OK to rip off the customer, and the so called "insurance" seems a scam also.

Money is being doled out to foreign countries on a grand scale, but little to nothing is done for the American citizen, homeless veteran and etc., considered last and to grin and bear it - "suck it up".

Another is entrapments due to fine lines in the law, but little is done to curtail heinous crimes. In spite of the "so called rhetoric", crime is solvable. If nipped in the bud makes for a happy, sound, prosperous society.

The recent deportations of alien criminals (rapists, murders, thieves, extortionists, criminal abuse of the weak, sex traffickers, etc.) are a step in the right direction. Stupid takes a while to fix. The criminals are those behind the scenes at the highest tier.

[Steve Helmick]

I had to search for "Officer Barbrady" with DuckDuckGo. My TV education has been lacking because I just refuse to watch any of the new cartoon shows, starting with The Simpsons.    Steve