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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Dave_Trible on December 13, 2024, 09:26:38 AM

Title: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 13, 2024, 09:26:38 AM
I don't know of course but I expect we will find this is a click of drone freaks playing in the night skies over New Jersey.   I also expect there will be calls (more calls) to ban anything that flies and doesn't carry a person on board.   This will hurt all of us model fliers and something some of us have been crowing about since the first days of drones.   It might NOT take the downing of an airliner to ruin it for us all- these screwballs could do it also......


Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 13, 2024, 10:49:47 AM
Well it only take one idiot to screw it up for the rest of us.

I fly drones for personal photography. According to the FAA it’s against the law to shoot down a drone.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Jim Svitko on December 13, 2024, 11:17:44 AM
On last night's network news, there was a report about these drones.  This report said some of these drones are quite large.  So, if anyone decided to shoot one down, and it crashes and causes damage or even kills someone, it will be a legal nightmare for the person who brought it down.

And, what about someone looking into jamming the signals that control these drones?  Same problem as shooting one down.  You never know where it will come down.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: doug coursey on December 13, 2024, 11:19:39 AM
WE HAD THE SAME THING HAPPEN HERE IN JACKSONVILE...PROBABLY BE A LOT OF COPY CATS
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Tom Luciano on December 13, 2024, 12:56:14 PM
These are not toys. They are quite large. There are 100's of reports per night regarding these things. Proximity to Trump National and Picatinny Arsenal seem to be consistently visited.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 13, 2024, 01:17:16 PM
These surely come up on radar at some point.  I would think that and ways to follow them would lead to their sources eventually.   A few years ago I would take a free flight Old Timer RC assist out to where I flew CL at the time and put it up.   I'm sure I seldom ever let it get over 500' high since the field was small and getting the thing back down on the field at times could be a challenge.  One thing that almost always happened though is that the airplane would come up on the radar of a local airport a few miles away so they would vector a plane or helicopter over my way to check it out.   These drones must surely be doing the same over there.   If so they should be able to figure out roughly from where they are coming from.   When they find the first operator they should be able to coral the others.   I would think the authorities must already have clues.

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on December 13, 2024, 02:57:24 PM
One thing that almost always happened though is that the airplane would come up on the radar of a local airport a few miles away so they would vector a plane or helicopter over my way to check it out.   These drones must surely be doing the same over there.   If so they should be able to figure out roughly from where they are coming from.   When they find the first operator they should be able to coral the others.   I would think the authorities must already have clues.

   I expect that they also have the radar cross-section like the broad side of  a barn and a substantial IR signature.

    Brett
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 13, 2024, 03:02:00 PM
Living in NJ, anything is possible.  Orson Welle's 1938 Halloween eve radio broadcast " War of the World's "   chronicled Martian landings in NJ. Worried citizens across the nation panicked. Of course, large drones overhead are very real and at some point, people are entitled to an explanation.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on December 13, 2024, 03:07:44 PM
Living in NJ, anything is possible.  Orson Welle's 1938 Halloween eve radio broadcast " War of the World's "   chronicled Martian landings in NJ. Worried citizens across the nation panicked. Of course, large drones overhead are very real and at some point, people are entitled to an explanation.

   Without discussing what "the authorities" might be doing about it, I am stunned that no one has taken matters into his own hands and shot one of them down.

    Brett
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: spare_parts on December 13, 2024, 03:11:50 PM
.gov knows exactly what's happening and likely operating them. Denial doesn't mean anything. These are not foolish hobbyists, but something more like real aircraft.

Once word gets out you have people who have never looked at the sky at night, finding things they've never seen before, but are probably there every day.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 13, 2024, 05:16:11 PM
I don't think ordinary hobbyists  could afford drones this large and sophisticated. No worries, the AMA told us a dozen years ago or so that drone flyers would become part of the fold.
Hmmn.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on December 13, 2024, 05:32:08 PM
I don't think ordinary hobbyists  could afford drones this large and sophisticated. No worries, the AMA told us a dozen years ago or so that drone flyers would become part of the fold.

  Welcome to the "Future".

    Brett

 
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 13, 2024, 06:15:45 PM
According to the FAA it’s against the law to shoot down a drone.

 Only if you get caught.  ;)
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 13, 2024, 06:34:09 PM
   Without discussing what "the authorities" might be doing about it, I am stunned that no one has taken matters into his own hands and shot one of them down.

    Brett

   As a teenager in the early 70's, I witnessed and watched the only hijacking that occurred at Lambert Field take place. That in itself is a long and interesting story, but about 3/4 of the way through the incident, local TV news had finally gotten on the scene and were broadcasting live. Local bars usually have a TV playing and this was on display at most of them. I can imagine a bunch of liquored up patrons saying to each other, "Well, some one ought to do something about this!" Well one insurance salesman type at a bar near the airport decided to do just that! He jumped into his new Cadillac and headed off to stop the scoundrel !! Lambert Field was quite different back then. The old TWA maintenance hanger that was on the south side of the field right next to I-70 was where a lot of the goings on took place. The only boundary around the airport was one little chain link fence. The salesman/hero crashed his Caddy through the fence and as the jet was maneuvering to taxi to the runway, he rammed the Caddy right into the nose gear!!  That stopped the attempt momentarily but another jet was brought in soon after and the hijacker made his getaway, but was captured after he bailed out over Indiana somewhere. He went to the federal prison in Marion, Illinois, and later became part of another hijacking that is a legend in St. Louis History and another long story!!

    What the country needs now is a hero!! Some redneck to get all liquored up, jump into his J-3 and go ram a few of those things!! I read where supposedly a law enforcement helicopter got near one and was hovering over it, when the object turned it's lighting off, then the copter pulled away. I wonder about that. How close was he, allegedly? I have a pretty good idea just what rotor down wash would do to even a large quadcopter. A couple of other chased and "harrased" a Coast Guard boat!! If that was true, why didn't they fire on it??  I think one official issued a statement that some of these sightings were full size aircraft operating legally. I looked at the calendar and it says December 2024!! I can't believe that in this day and age, with technology that is available to us today, that they are completely in the dark. Simple infrared and night vision technology should let authorities see something about what's out there!!??  Even if they are electric, there will be a heat signature. Some kind of radar should be able to track them. But then again, look how far across the country the Chinese "weather balloon" got across the country before anything was said or done about it??  There is more to this than meets the eye, me thinks.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Reptoid on December 13, 2024, 08:47:51 PM
Don't worry about the "drones" flying around; Worry about why the government is lying to you about them. We had the technology in the hands of the military to track, ID, and track back to origin, any of these objects 18 years ago when I retired. We could in fact track them on the ground as soon as the rotors were turning. Also ask yourself why any drones trying to be stealthy would have operating running lights. The statements from the white house are lies, laughable, and self contradicting ; "we have no idea what they are or where they came from" but "they don't pose any threat or danger"





Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave Harmon on December 13, 2024, 10:03:29 PM
  Welcome to the "Future".

    Brett

The way things have been going I would not be surprised that once the FAA finds out who is responsible for the latest droning escapade that R/C will be made illegal.
This will completely solve the C/L participation problem.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on December 14, 2024, 10:41:59 AM
How large are these drones? Haven't really kept up, but seems as though all common sense has left those who supposedly are supposed to maintain our infrastructures and prosecute criminals, not some poor sap who put a nativity set on his lawn and violated some city ordinance for "hate speech".

My take so far reminds me of the so-called "Chinese" weather balloons that flew over US military assets a few years ago. What was it, an FA-14 Tom Cat that finally was directed by the PTB and fired an expensive missile downing it, earning the pilot a balloon war kill emogi on the side of his fuselage?

Seems to be purposely driven fear porn, IMO.  S?P n1  :o LL~

And I think David Harmon has a point. I'd just wish that government would get back to taking care of the real criminals and stop harrassing citizenry for the multitude of ridiculous ordinances that seem to take precedence over true crimes.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Mike Griffin on December 14, 2024, 10:52:10 AM
Well, just waiting for them to appear here in Soutern Louisiana where they will be shot down immediately, gutted and used to boil crawfish. 
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Mike Griffin on December 14, 2024, 10:59:48 AM
Anyone remember the Chinese Spy balloon incidents and how we allowed them to fly across the entire US before we shot them down?  There is not a battery in the world that I know of that will hold a charge long enough to fly across the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean and reach New Jersey.  Our military knows what these things are and where they are coming from.  They will lie about this like they do about everything else with the current administration. 

Mike
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Paul Taylor on December 14, 2024, 12:07:05 PM
Email from Windy.

Hi,this is TRUE and I think funny too.  All these drones sighted for last month in NEW JERSEY all over every news channel for a month. BIG MYSTERY EVEN OUR GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE.

Last night my daughter Stacie was walking the dog after dark and counted 15 over Rutherford. The town website has so many posts of people spotting them I was getting skeptical ???

Last night Karyn and I went to dinner after 7 and looked up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,RIGHT OVER OUR HOUSE !!!!!!

I cannot wait to find out what the story is BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they look scary in real life right above your house.

Living in Jersey is always a GREAT ADVENTURE,,,,,,,,,,,look out tonight they may be coming to your house too.

And the dog barks at them every time one in above him.

Ill try to get some video from my house soon. WINDY
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Jim Benzinger on December 14, 2024, 12:38:38 PM
I believe everyone is wrong. These are obviously alien craft, just out for a joy ride. Cruisin' about.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on December 14, 2024, 01:43:53 PM
I believe everyone is wrong. These are obviously alien craft, just out for a joy ride. Cruisin' about.

We have aliens too in Roswell, New Mexico, but some may not be legal.  LL~
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave Harmon on December 14, 2024, 02:19:43 PM
I believe everyone is wrong. These are obviously alien craft, just out for a joy ride. Cruisin' about.

Naaaa....the gubment flying all them illegals back to wherever they came from.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Jim Svitko on December 14, 2024, 03:28:26 PM
Ever since the reports of these drones were on the news shows, I have wondered what might be going on.  At first, I thought the drone nuts were messing around again.  But, maybe the government is behind this.

With the holiday season here, and an inauguration coming up, is it possible that our intelligence services got wind of a possible attack, and these recent sighting are an exercise to determine defensive capability?

I am just speculating here but the government sounds like Sgt. Schultz (I know nothing).  Of course, the officials know more than they can reveal.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Tom Luciano on December 14, 2024, 04:01:49 PM
50 drones coming in, off shore line in ocean county nj. Reported and documented by ocean county police. They had a drone up and said the drones were traveling at 60mph. Theirs only does around 40mph.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Al Ferraro on December 14, 2024, 07:45:21 PM
These are not toys. They are quite large. There are 100's of reports per night regarding these things. Proximity to Trump National and Picatinny Arsenal seem to be consistently visited.

 On some nights, my backyard looks like an RC flying field with them hovering and flying back and forth.  n~
Al
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: 944_Jim on December 14, 2024, 08:12:43 PM
Shoot one down. We'll find out when "they" come knocking on your door.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Perry Rose on December 15, 2024, 05:37:49 AM
At what altitude are they flying? Are they within range of 12 gauge No.2 shot or magnum 00 or 000 buck shot? I have some.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on December 15, 2024, 12:36:52 PM
At what altitude are they flying? Are they within range of 12 gauge No.2 shot or magnum 00 or 000 buck shot? I have some.

Whether they are or not, I wouldn't recommend using a rifle, not that it wouldn't work, but that can also reach the airplane you accidentally interpreted as a drone, and will definitely have lethal energy when it comes back down.

     Jokes aside, I think everyone should think twice before firing guns in the air trying to hit drones, it's almost certainly illegal and is at least a little bit dangerous.

     Brett
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: spare_parts on December 15, 2024, 01:55:47 PM
Jokes aside, I think everyone should think twice before firing guns in the air trying to hit drones, it's almost certainly illegal and is at least a little bit dangerous.

It's 100% illegal. People have already been convicted.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Gary Dowler on December 15, 2024, 05:23:06 PM
   Without discussing what "the authorities" might be doing about it, I am stunned that no one has taken matters into his own hands and shot one of them down.

    Brett
My thought exactly.  Perhaps its a aspect of the mentality of the general population in a given region, in this case the liberal east coast.  I suspect that had this situation begun around Bozeman MT, Provo UT or Deer Park WA, that someone would likely have done this very thing a lot earlier on than this.

Gary
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: spare_parts on December 15, 2024, 05:38:41 PM
My thought exactly.  Perhaps its a aspect of the mentality of the general population in a given region, in this case the liberal east coast.  I suspect that had this situation begun around Bozeman MT, Provo UT or Deer Park WA, that someone would likely have done this very thing a lot earlier on than this.

Gary

You'd have a long time to think about it after shooting down a govt aircraft.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Gary Dowler on December 15, 2024, 06:50:04 PM
You'd have a long time to think about it after shooting down a govt aircraft.
Never said it was either legal or even the right thing to do.  But we can pretty much conclude a few things here.  First, they are almost certainly not private hobby fliers, as this would appear to involve a lot of organization and planning.  We can eliminate corporate ownership as any corporate entity would have long since spoken up about it and apologized. Third, I think we can eliminate likely government activity based on the complete lack of apparent concern for public safety, the amount of media coverage, the interviews with congressional representatives who have no idea what the source of these things is, etc.  If it were US gov flying these, given the public concern at this point I would think it likely that someone from Bumbles Bribe-den himself on down, someone would say something to assure the public that everything is fine and they are ours.

Just my thoughts

Gary
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 15, 2024, 07:08:53 PM
A news story:  two men arrested for flying a drone near Boston Logan airport.    The cops used a device to trace the drone back to a location.  When they showed up the two suspects made a run for it but were caught.   One had a drone in his backpack.   Ages 42 and 38 years...


Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: M Spencer on December 15, 2024, 08:22:00 PM
Please take down ALL hose knuckleheads into  Drones
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Motorman on December 15, 2024, 09:39:35 PM
It got bidens pardons out of the news cycle.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on December 15, 2024, 10:33:35 PM
It got bidens pardons out of the news cycle.

  What an odd coincidence!

     Brett
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Perry Rose on December 16, 2024, 06:30:45 AM
Joe Biden said, a few years ago, go out on the back porch and fire off a couple blasts. Maybe he was lucid, maybe not. The gov'ts primary task is to keep us safe. I will step in and keep me safe when they don't.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Tom Luciano on December 16, 2024, 06:36:03 AM
I know everyone gets this but, I remember this and really didn't think it was that long ago. I believe he was also a volunteer firefighter.

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/06/archives/bullet-fired-from-a-mile-away-kills-jerseyan-fixing-his-roof.html
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: spare_parts on December 16, 2024, 08:34:45 AM
At this point you have countless useful idiots flying their drones trying to find more drones, to post on their social media account and get the scoop on the story.

It's mass hysteria at this point. Anything from aliens to a search for dirty nukes.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: EricV on December 16, 2024, 11:32:16 AM
I like this one

https://www.droptec.ch/en/dropster-3-0/

It has fairly short range and is only for smaller drones, which I see as a plus, since it means you will actually be able to visually verify you are shooting down a drone and not some poor doctor in his Cessna on the way to do someone's heart surgery, essentially creating 2 victims in one shot.

Joking aside, I am truly afraid some "bubba" is going to get riled up from all the hype and do something just like that by mistake. It's probably best to let the authorities handle this folks. As much fun as it is to joke about, I think it would be best not to egg on our friends and other people to try and do anything dangerous either.

EricV
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 16, 2024, 01:36:45 PM
Introducing weapons into just about any situation will almost always be the wrong thing to do and can cause grief for everyone.   I wasn't suggesting that here.   My thought was that it isn't impossible to follow and track down where these things originate and expose them.   As many as there seems to be somebody knows something.   If a few can be caught then it should be possible to track down more and stop this where it can be.  In many cases these probably aren't really breaking current laws (if they are registered)  and aren't being flown in restricted areas.  Those who aren't registered should be fined as a means to demonstrate it is serious if the rules aren't followed and hopefully deter others from doing stupid stuff.   My concern for serious modelers is that there are those including corporate interests who are always looking for reasons to ban flying models period.   They want total control and access to the entire airspace for drone delivery services to operate.   This was a big part of the FAA Reauthorization act legal arguments before and guess what-that bill is coming due to be reauthorized soon.  These fools are giving their talking points energy.......That and this has now rattled local cities and towns to the point where they are making their own new rules which might shut down every model flying site in their jurisdiction......


Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Steve Thompson on December 16, 2024, 03:15:20 PM
The scariest conspiracy theory I have heard is they are sniffing for a dirty bomb or errant nuke.  I sure hope not.

And please don't shoot one down with a firearm.  Goes right to multiple Federal crimes.  It must be done humanely with a net, a shoe, or an oil covered Ringmaster. 
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 16, 2024, 06:11:33 PM
 Rosie O'donnell gave her explanation today that it's definitely aliens, "They're here!" she says. I can't imagine anyone more qualified.  LL~ LL~ LL~
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: john e. holliday on December 16, 2024, 09:43:22 PM
i Say it is some ne paying a group to do this so that person can cause commotion so they get something else done before someone finds out about it.   But I thought our military had a way to cause havic with the radio signals.   Where is our CIA and secret service know it alls?   I think when who ever is doing this will runout of batteries and money.  But even if they do catch them they will more than likely just slap their hands and tell them not to do it again.   I know I'm not going to worry about and lose sleep over it.   Back to the shop for me. S?P D>K
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 16, 2024, 10:21:11 PM
  What an odd coincidence!

     Brett

 Yeah, weird huh?  ::)
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave Harmon on December 17, 2024, 08:21:21 AM
But I thought our military had a way to cause havic with the radio signals.   
Back to the shop for me.

They do...and...you can buy a jammer to do exactly that. Its legal to buy a jammer but not legal to USE it.
This is how movie theaters and other venues prevent disturbing phone calls and live uploads to YouTube of performances etc.
Likely these 'drones' are not guided by an operator but are following a preloaded GPS route to surveille specific areas.
Its not likely due to the night operation but possible that a human monitor could be observing high speed bursts of radio, laser or microwave signals from the camera to a satellite which then can retransmit to another satellite then to a ground station.
Radio signals are easy to detect...microwave and laser signals are much more difficult due to the easy ability to 'focus' the beam much like a spotlight.
Of course these signals are very, very low powered which makes them even more difficult to detect.
And encrypted.
Now I'm going back to the shop!!  H^^
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Al Ferraro on December 17, 2024, 10:15:25 AM
At what altitude are they flying? Are they within range of 12 gauge No.2 shot or magnum 00 or 000 buck shot? I have some.
500' TO 1000' OR 6 Iron to Driver for me.
Al
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Motorman on December 17, 2024, 06:27:29 PM
Knowing Jersey politics they will parlay this into millions of federal money that will get misappropriated to fight the coming mass deportations.  Van Drew has claimed the drones are from an Iranian mother ship and Murphy has already asked for the money. Don't let a good crisis go to waste.

MM :)
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 18, 2024, 05:49:38 AM
Wonder if the AMA will comment.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 18, 2024, 06:55:07 AM
     Some of what people are seeing is stuff that is normally there, but they just haven't been looking up!! All the media fluff going on just helps to point it out to them now so any light in the sky is a "drone" now. I see some photos and videos of what are obviously airplanes or helicopters, with red and green position lights and flashing transponder light and other marker lights. Nothing says "HEY!! CAN YOU SEE ME!!!??" than what the federal regulations say you have to have on airplanes these days. Far from being sneaky or stealthy. In one article, I saw one photos that was all fuzzy and blurry but you could still make out an outline of some kind of aircraft and even some trim colors. Next to it was a clear factory publicity photo of a small helicopter that very well have been the same aircraft!! I'm of the belief that this is part of a distraction effort, whether the activity is real and a threat or not. Everybody needs to pay attention to the other goofy stuff going on in Washington!! Like, why did Biden make all those pardons last week? Normally, and outgoing President does that on their last day in office. Makes me wonder who is really in charge now??
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 18, 2024, 07:52:19 AM
I'd be sort of surprised if they say much.  They've got themselves between a drone and a hard spot.    If they'd have not tried so hard to cozy up to the drone crowd they SHOULD be the ones speaking up.  Just my opinion.

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave Harmon on December 18, 2024, 08:07:50 AM
Wonder if the AMA will comment.

Probably not as this situation goes against the AMA narrative...and they likely cannot sign up the operators!  ::)
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 18, 2024, 09:13:55 AM
"Inside baseball" says AMA signed up 12,000 new members this year.   Tail of the tape says about 10% hookup with a club and stay around.  90% leave after about two years.   We can only guess most of that 90% are drone people.   However 12,000 X $48.00 or whatever it is X two years gets their attention when trying to keep the operation going.  Since 'we' are becoming less and 'they' are becoming more the bean counters win.   I do know that when the time comes AMA will send the lawyers to DC and do what they can.   I guess that's what we can hope for.

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: spare_parts on December 18, 2024, 09:40:56 AM
Wonder if the AMA will comment.

What could they possibly have to offer? Remind everyone to turn on Remote ID if you aren't flying at a FRIA?
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: RC Storick on December 18, 2024, 12:19:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTtvRBaP6RQ
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 18, 2024, 12:22:09 PM
What could they possibly have to offer? Remind everyone to turn on Remote ID if you aren't flying at a FRIA?

It was purely meant to be tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on December 18, 2024, 09:58:49 PM
Maybe this explains why farmers have been making alien crop circles in their European fields?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WA8s7NGere0/maxresdefault.jpg)

Since our PTB don't answer, perhaps our farmers should do the same?
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 19, 2024, 07:21:15 AM
I see that this morning the FAA issued NOTAMs or no drone flying orders for a huge swath of New Jersey through January 17th.   Nothing under 400'.  I believe this will include all RC flying models as well since they are considered drones by regulation.  Here we go.   Be sure you tell the cops you are flying a control line 'kite' not a drone.   They say they will use 'deadly force' to bring violators down and prosecute offenders.

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 19, 2024, 07:40:23 AM
Now that they are being spotted in Texas I suspect a resolution soon.  If they expand with the Amazon strike we will have a clue.  I keep my planes in my office and Tuesday as I was coming back from the field I was asked if my "drone" was one of "them".  mw~

Anonymous
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: kevin king on December 20, 2024, 02:43:17 AM
After a lengthy investigation, the drones were determined to be swamp gas.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 23, 2024, 06:54:37 PM
De ja vu all over again.   So in Texas a drone falls on a young boy-  he’s in open heart surgery.   Mom will likely sue everybody like the mom years ago who ran his CL airplane into the power lines…

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 23, 2024, 08:28:00 PM
De ja vu all over again.   So in Texas a drone falls on a young boy-  he’s in open heart surgery.

Dave

 Huh? Did this happen?
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 23, 2024, 08:37:28 PM
Yes it did.  It was a lighted aerial drone display for Christmas done by a drone company that does these shows.   They had gotten a special permit  from the FAA for the show since the pilots were flying multiple drones each.  Several collided and came down on the crowd below.  Two or three days ago.

Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Jim Svitko on December 23, 2024, 08:43:29 PM
Huh? Did this happen?

Yes, in Orlando.  A drone company based in Coppell, TX. was running a drone show.  Something went wrong, some drones went out of control.  One struck a 7 year old boy.  This drone company has done some check out flights at the RC field where our CL circle is.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 23, 2024, 08:45:20 PM
Yes it did.  It was a lighted aerial drone display for Christmas done by a drone company that does these shows.   They had gotten a special permit  from the FAA for the show since the pilots were flying multiple drones each.  Several collided and came down on the crowd below.  Two or three days ago.

Dave

 Perfect.  ::)
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on December 23, 2024, 09:23:20 PM
I think it is a little early to jump to conclusions. A new administration is taking over in January. Hopefully they will be more responsive than the previous.

It concerns me that many Federal employees have decided to leave or retire early, due to unfavorable internal politics. Among those were ones who cared and bore the burden of getting the work done. I think the US military veterans have been at a dis-service with funding diverted elsewhere. There are other disparities, too.

I don't believe all that I read, as there is more than simply Space-X involved, to include our hobby interests. But, the recent resignation of the FAA head and several others with him hopefully will be the step in the right direction. FAA has completely ignored Congressional law that exempted us by further regulating us, when we are not the problem.

https://dailycaller.com/2024/12/12/michael-whitaker-faa-administrator-announces-resignation-elon-musk-spacex/ (https://dailycaller.com/2024/12/12/michael-whitaker-faa-administrator-announces-resignation-elon-musk-spacex/)

I don't know about you, but I am getting tired of all the fear porn about us.

Long time ago, I learned if you dealt swiftly with the offenders, everyone else fell in line and order was restored. This goes for work, school, neighborhood and etc. Stop punishing and harrassing the law abider as a remedy for excusing the criminals.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Sean McEntee on December 23, 2024, 09:35:17 PM
My solution: send a bunch of folks who are Part 107 certified up there with nets and other means of which to bring the illegal ones down; call it “The Great Drone War of 2024”, watch movie labels fight over the rights…
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Jim Svitko on December 28, 2024, 11:30:45 AM
I saw a news article about the drone company that was involved with the incident in Florida.  The FAA has suspended the Part 107 waiver for the drone company.  So, there will be no drone show in Dallas on New Years Eve.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 28, 2024, 12:36:03 PM
Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  We didn't and I let it expire.  Christmas I was presented with a little RC Foamy from my Grandson.  I want to fly it for no other reason than he gave it to me.  They are sort of fun anyway and I have a lot of RC experience from "back in the day".  it looks like a decent motor and esc I might be able to use in a 1/2a size plane after it crashes (they all do eventually).

SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy?  VD~

Ken
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on December 28, 2024, 12:46:38 PM
Ken the 'drone certificate' expires every five years-I just recently was sent notice and renewed mine.   I did not take any test to renew.   My bet is if you just go to their website you should be able to pay your $5 and be good to go.    I suppose if you are out in the boonies where you wouldn't be noticed anyway you could just take your chances.   You know thousands of kids got drones and foamies for Christmas and never heard of any rules.   Maybe you can tell the cops you are going through your second childhood.....
Seriously if I had bigger,  heavier RC stuff to fly I wouldn't try it without the credentials right now but a small foamy toy-type I might for the 30 seconds until I tear it up hitting a tree.


Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 28, 2024, 01:07:35 PM
Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  We didn't and I let it expire.  Christmas I was presented with a little RC Foamy from my Grandson.  I want to fly it for no other reason than he gave it to me.  They are sort of fun anyway and I have a lot of RC experience from "back in the day".  it looks like a decent motor and esc I might be able to use in a 1/2a size plane after it crashes (they all do eventually).

SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy?  VD~

Ken

     Weigh it and if it's under a half pound, or 8 ounces, then no need. More than likely it won't be able to handle any wind, and you are limited to flying in the evening in your yard when it's calm, and will get no further than 50 feet from you. I would just enjoy it and not bother Uncle Whiskers about it.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on December 28, 2024, 02:52:23 PM
Drones over NJ are no longer in the news. What's sad is that until Jan 17, 2025 the FAA  has grounded model aviation in" select "areas of the NJ/NY metro area. Control line unaffected unless the club is primarily an RC field. I would imagine that affected RC clubs will decide if they're going to remain open for the few that use the field for ukie.  Whether or not that date is extended is anyone's guess.
 The FAA, as we know, has categorized all RC models as drones.  And the AMA, as we know, courted drone activities from the get go and once again, it has come back to bite us in the ass.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on December 28, 2024, 08:49:27 PM
Semi off topic but...I got the "Small UAS Certificate of Registration" back in 2019 when it looked like we would have to have one.  [...] SO...do I need to renew my "part 107" license?  Anybody know?  I read that they do not expire but you have to test every two years.  I went to the FAA Web site but unfortunately, I only have a Master's degree which is insufficient to navigate the FAA site.  How the bloody hell did we let the government make so that you have to take an exam and get a license to play with a kids toy?  VD~ Ken

I received a notice of due to expire. I reregistered. Required me to list at least 1 UAS, so I inputted my 36 inch wingspan half-A Sterling Minnie Mambo rudder only airplane that I still have. Also requires me now to pass a test before I fly and keep a copy of the passing certificate with me.

One of the testing agencies is the AMA. Since I haven't been flying R/C, I haven't taken the test yet.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Tony Drago on December 29, 2024, 12:32:52 AM
                            I heard a certain person awhile back say go out and buy/get a shotgun
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 29, 2024, 11:53:19 AM
I saw a news article about the drone company that was involved with the incident in Florida.  The FAA has suspended the Part 107 waiver for the drone company.  So, there will be no drone show in Dallas on New Years Eve.

   I saw a news headline about 5 of these displays being canceled for New Years Eve. I always thought that these were a pretty risky venture. One drone could have an unforeseen problem, and then multiply that chance by the number of drones involved in the display!!  I wonder if you see fewer of these now? I have not heard nor read how the young boy that was injured is doing after having open heart surgery to repair a heart valve damaged by the impact. I hope he's recovering well.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Paul Smith on December 29, 2024, 09:08:39 PM
In order to justify legislation, the Gov-A-Mint needs some proof of a problem.
I've heard some lame complaints, but nothing that smacks of due cause.
The people who make and sell drones will bring up this fact if pressed.

I am amused by the substitution of drone shows for fireworks.  Fireworks are clearly dangerous, but cities give permits to professionals to shoot them. 

I can imagine a malfunction in which a swarm of drones goes into a crowd, but that hasn't happened yet.  Anything based on invisible electronic magic can go weird at any time and nobody can ever say why.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: wwwarbird on December 29, 2024, 10:03:19 PM
In order to justify legislation, the Gov-A-Mint needs some proof of a problem.


 Now that's funny.  LL~
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Sean McEntee on January 02, 2025, 01:28:01 PM
Wonder if the AMA will comment.

These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable. 
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Fredvon4 on January 02, 2025, 01:57:25 PM
Or was each agency simply training drone operators at night to prepare for Times Square and the Inauguration, both venues where they can augment on-the-ground surveillance?
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on January 02, 2025, 01:57:50 PM
The AMA Interim Director claims only one club is affected in NJ.
Incorrect.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on January 02, 2025, 02:19:34 PM
These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable.

   Of course they are unenforceable. But I don't think that really matters, and it certainly is unlikely to help the AMA/us. Far from it, it is likely to escalate the attempts to "control" the problem, which, as now, only affects the people who are willing to comply - and therefore didn't need regulations in the first place.

     I have no "inside" information about this current "flap" but I strongly suspect that this is not a nefarious plot by a foreign government or terrorists.  The reactions so far are wildly atypical Officer Barbrady "Nothing to see here, move along" sort of statements instead of everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off. If there is a real crisis, you would see various government officials trying to exploit it. And the usual suspects knocking the grandmas out of the way to get their mugs in front of a camera.  I think in a few weeks we will get a plausible quasi-explanation.

    As always, as you said, the current regulations are unenforceable, any new regulation will also be unenforceable. So the regulation only harms or constrains people who are willing to pay attention to it willingly. They weren't and aren't the problem.

      Brett


p.s. And in any case, the AMA is the last bunch I would expect to have any control or influence. They tout their close governmental ties, but they/we are very minor players in drone regulation, and got steamrolled by all the other players, and the general public. The latter is why the entire effort to control drones is happening at all.  The reaction to the New Jersey stuff just shows that regular people *do not want drones flying over their heads* and are demanding action to prevent it. That is an unwinnable fight for the AMA. That the actions are more-or-less just window dressing is beside the point.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Ken Culbertson on January 02, 2025, 03:54:23 PM
These events ought to work to the AMA's advantage on the Hill.  It's highlighted when we in the aeromodeling community have known all along:  FAA regulations are unenforceable. 
Never tell bureaucrats that their regulations are unenforceable lest they single you out to prove otherwise.  VD~

Ken
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Paul Wescott on January 28, 2025, 08:20:10 PM
The media is now reporting that the FAA has admitted that the majority of those mystery drones were authorized research flights.  They are not saying what kind of research.

I wonder if it’s the truth, that the flights were authorized.  I also wonder why the FAA took so long.

Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Ken Culbertson on January 28, 2025, 09:08:48 PM
The media is now reporting that the FAA has admitted that the majority of those mystery drones were authorized research flights.  They are not saying what kind of research.

I wonder if it’s the truth, that the flights were authorized.  I also wonder why the FAA took so long.


New President.  Trump declassified it.

Ken
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Dave_Trible on January 29, 2025, 08:24:23 AM
I don't think the story makes any sense.   I also doubt the FAA does anything 'classified'.    Maybe a creative answer to an unsolved who-done-it.


Dave
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on January 29, 2025, 10:05:12 AM
Perhaps this may explain it?

https://skift.com/2024/12/12/faa-chief-to-resign-on-trumps-inauguration-day/ (https://skift.com/2024/12/12/faa-chief-to-resign-on-trumps-inauguration-day/)

Quote from: Skift
Whitaker, a former FAA deputy administrator and former executive at United Airlines, was confirmed by the Senate unanimously in 2023, ending nearly 19 months in which the agency had no Senate-confirmed chief.

The agency has come under scrutiny in recent years for its outdated technology, air traffic controller shortage, a string of close calls and a systemwide outage in January 2023 that briefly halted all flights. The FAA’s previous lack of oversight into Boeing has also come under fire, following the two fatal 737 Max crashes and the Alaska Airlines blowout.

Under Whitaker, the FAA has ramped up its oversight on Boeing, and he has received continued bipartisan support from Congress. [...]

However, Whitaker has drawn the ire of one of Trump’s key allies: Elon Musk, who will co-chair the administration's newly minted Department of Government Efficiency.

In September, Musk railed against Whitaker over FAA regulations halting SpaceX launches. Musk had repeatedly called for Whitaker’s resignation at the time and said the agency should punish Boeing over its botched Starliner launch rather than charge “petty” fines to SpaceX.

Under the previous administration, the FAA was poorly managed as was leaderless through most of the previousness' reign. Plus, they did not take care of real priorities, mostly agendas. The halting of SpaceX was such an agenda, and including regulating model airplane activity against Congress, who previously put into law to leave organized, self regulating modelling alone.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Brett Buck on January 29, 2025, 10:30:28 AM
The halting of SpaceX was such an agenda,

   While I am sure that the FAA worked about as well as any other agency during the last 4 years - that is, highly dysfunctional - but putting restrictions on SpaceX is hardly a good example. What has been going on with Starship development wouldn't be tolerated from *any* other group, and the entirely cavalier attitude taken towards regulation and public safety is what has gotten them in so much trouble. There's only so many times you can dump flaming debris into nature preserves or send debris at near-orbital speeds into the international airspace before someone has to step in and be the adults. What they claim they are doing is the same as the Germans wanted to do (Von Braun, etc) - development by test.

       But many of the things they are attempting to "test" are perfectly-well understood at this point, and many of the "test" failures are not in trying to advance the state of the art or shave margin and shouldn't require any "testing" at this point.

     Brett
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: GallopingGhostler on January 29, 2025, 01:34:16 PM
Brett, I hear you.

One thing that has been strange is now the lack of good regulation with the airline industry. The rules have become so convoluted, that one cannot even get a refund or partial refund for certain tickets, non-transferrable to another family member, etc. Plus, the rules for even getting a simple receipt to the payer if booking for another family member doesn't happen. It seems OK to rip off the customer, and the so called "insurance" seems a scam also.

Money is being doled out to foreign countries on a grand scale, but little to nothing is done for the American citizen, homeless veteran and etc., considered last and to grin and bear it - "suck it up".

Another is entrapments due to fine lines in the law, but little is done to curtail heinous crimes. In spite of the "so called rhetoric", crime is solvable. If nipped in the bud makes for a happy, sound, prosperous society.

The recent deportations of alien criminals (rapists, murders, thieves, extortionists, criminal abuse of the weak, sex traffickers, etc.) are a step in the right direction. Stupid takes a while to fix. The criminals are those behind the scenes at the highest tier.
Title: Re: Someone....Please take down those knuckleheads in New Jersey! Drones
Post by: Steve Helmick on January 29, 2025, 02:38:36 PM
I had to search for "Officer Barbrady" with DuckDuckGo. My TV education has been lacking because I just refuse to watch any of the new cartoon shows, starting with The Simpsons.  :X  Steve