So what can a model do? Looking for a stunt ship for learning pattern.

[Bill Little]

(Snip)
Name tag magnets, gotta love them.  WAY more powerful than the donut magnet I used earlier.  Yes, this powerf
Turns out I have 3 iron FP 20's.
(Snip)
Phil

Hi Phil,

The iron Piston FPs work the same as the ABN ones.  They are timed the same. (there are NO ABC FPs).  You simply need the stock venturi, NVA, and 2030 muffler, and APC 9X4.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Phil Krankowski]

So, I talked to my neighbor about swapping mufflers.  I helped solder the connections for his transport and he GAVE me two LA25 RC.  He just says I need to help with soldering in the future...I am fairly good as long as circuit boards are not involved, then I am only fairly fair...not enough practice.

I plan to liquidate the 3 iron FP's and stick with the ABN LA's.  2 are perfect, the third is obviously run pretty well and has plier marks on the thrust washer.

There is less than an hour on these two engines because his transport was so underpowered with them,  With electric his transport can take off in grass, and land across the front of our two houses, now that the half-dead road trees are cut down.  He plans to never fly glow RC again.

My intakes and spray bars arrived from Tower today for the remote NVA's on the LA's.  No plans yet from the store, but they said 7-10 business days.

Phil

[Phil Krankowski]

I am a rib cutting fool...Sure feel foolish sometimes too.  I couldn't make the ribs line up to the material and plans, so after half a day of pondering I re-stacked the ribs flipping every other rib, and sorting from the ends of the stack.  The resulting toothy stack looks like it will sand down to the correct profile on the plans.  Tomorrow I might find out if I am right.

Been a while since I scratch built...forgot a lot of tricks and methods.

Does anybody know if Brodak's Flite Streak rib set
http://brodak.com/original-flite-streak-rib-set.html
is the correct ribs for the plans on Outerzone?
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2652

that kit is starting to look pretty cheap.
http://brodak.com/original-flite-streak-kit.html
except the RTF version is even less!
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDVF3&P=7

However I have wood to build at least 2 full wings out of leftover stuff in the closet, so that is pretty cheap too.  I just hope I didn't make a pile of sawdust for nothing.

Phil

[Phil Krankowski]

1 wing built, more or less.  Lots of sanding to do.  I do not have new bell cranks, just 1 used without lead outs.

I need to evaluate the other set of ribs and see if they are close enough to save.  I think they might be goners though.  The trailing edge is "low" and they look to be "short" already.

I found some "quilting template plastic" in the closet.  Probably my wife's.  This stuff is wonderful.  I might never make a plywood template again!  I wish I found it to make rib templates.  I used it to make a fuselage template.  Only downside is the piece is 18 inches long, and the fuselage is longer.  I do not have a big enough piece of 1/2 balsa for a fuselage at this time so I probably have to order some balsa.

Would stacking 2 pieces of 1/4 inch make a good, strong, not overweight fuselage?  I would use Elmer's wood glue and weight it to a table for a few days with books.

Phil

[RknRusty]

1 wing built, more or less.  Lots of sanding to do.  I do not have new bell cranks, just 1 used without lead outs.

I need to evaluate the other set of ribs and see if they are close enough to save.  I think they might be goners though.  The trailing edge is "low" and they look to be "short" already.

I found some "quilting template plastic" in the closet.  Probably my wife's.  This stuff is wonderful.  I might never make a plywood template again!  I wish I found it to make rib templates.  I used it to make a fuselage template.  Only downside is the piece is 18 inches long, and the fuselage is longer.  I do not have a big enough piece of 1/2 balsa for a fuselage at this time so I probably have to order some balsa.

Would stacking 2 pieces of 1/4 inch make a good, strong, not overweight fuselage?  I would use Elmer's wood glue and weight it to a table for a few days with books.

Phil

Phil, I asked that question about the 2 piece fuselage at CEF and some of our members said, yes it makes a superior fuse, stiff and resistant to warping. You can even put a piece of mesh between them. If I recall, use wood glue and press it between two pieces of glass to keep it flat.

I need to check out that template material. What does it look like?

Rusty

[Phil Krankowski]

I need to check out that template material. What does it look like?

Rusty

Translucent plastic.

I think this is the exact stuff (I threw the label away)

http://www.amazon.com/Dritz-Quilting-Heavy-Template-Plastic/dp/B0085L2XUQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1383947068&sr=1-2&keywords=dritz+template

However JoAnn Fabrics, Hobby Lobby (the craft store), and probably any other fabric and craft type store will have a similar item.

I do wish it was a little thicker, but it is pretty sturdy.  For very small features it might be a little too pliable.

Phil

[Steve Helmick]

"Phil, I asked that question about the 2 piece fuselage at CEF and some of our members said, yes it makes a superior fuse, stiff and resistant to warping. You can even put a piece of mesh between them. If I recall, use wood glue and press it between two pieces of glass to keep it flat."


CF or FG should be put on the outside, not between laminations. That will do virtually nothing for strength and rigidity. Put the strong stuff on the outside!

As for glue, DO NOT use any water-based glue for laminating...takes too long to dry and tends to warp. Also don't use contact cement...result will not be rigid. Slow epoxy is best, and the 30 minute stuff from the LHS is really too fast. Two hours would be about right. Spread it thin with the wife's credit card!  Steve

[RknRusty]

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve.
I'm an epoxy freak anyway, just can't quit the stuff.

Rusty

[Phil Krankowski]

I am comfortable laminating with wood glue, I have done it many times before, although not much with balsa.  I need to leave it pressed for a week or so.  (Yes, any wood will warp if not left pressed long enough after using a water based glue)

I put some fiberglass drywall tape between the lamination already.  I figured it will help with fly-swatter-ing.  It is pressed in the basement between a plastic covered plywood piece and a storm window, by the dehumidifier. 

Is bass OK for engine bearers? 

Phil

[Brett Buck]

I am comfortable laminating with wood glue, I have done it many times before, although not much with balsa.  I need to leave it pressed for a week or so.  (Yes, any wood will warp if not left pressed long enough after using a water based glue)

I put some fiberglass drywall tape between the lamination already.  I figured it will help with fly-swatter-ing.  It is pressed in the basement between a plastic covered plywood piece and a storm window, by the dehumidifier. 

Is bass OK for engine bearers? 

  NO! Or at least you will be sorry you did it. It will compress pretty quickly and the engine will keep coming loose. I have learned from hard experience that rock maple (sugar maple) or something at least that hard, will save you a lot of pain in the long run. I used cocobolo on one airplane a long time ago. That was hard enough, not quite ebony or teak, but darn hard.

    Laminating with water-based or any evaporative glue is not a great idea, but plenty of people have done it without any obvious problems over the years. With pressure, carpenter's wood glue like Titebond or Elmer's sticks very quickly, evaporation or no. My dad is a "crafts" woodturner of some note in his local area. He glues up blanks for large bowls with Titebond with varying color wood in interesting patterns. He clamps everything hard for about 1/2 hour, bolts it on his lathe faceplate, and goes at it. There is some serious force in it but so far he hasn't had any problems. He found that if you screw up and try to get it apart 15 minutes later, you are completely out of luck, you are going to have to cut it or split it. It isn't coming apart at the glue joints.

     Brett

[Phil Krankowski]

I ordered maple from Brodak along with bell cranks, adjustable leadouts, leadout wire, weight boxes, and a small mountain of other stuff. 

I'm even less sure buying a kit costs more than scratch from stock, other than I already had the wood I am using. 

I re-evaluated my misshapen ribs.  Pulled them off the stack, dropped several on the printed plan...I decided the error is pretty small.  The wing will be about 1/16 thinner than plan, and a tiny bit asymmetrical as a result.  I built the second wing today, mostly.  I need to shape for gluing the rest of the LE, wingtips for both wings, bellcrank tray...and more. 

Both wings are straight!  No twists, no warps.  I am pleased so far. 

The glued up fuse is still pressed and I'll look at cutting it after the maple arrives. I'll glue the second fuse tomorrow I think.

Phil

[phil c]

The E-2030 muffler is the one to use. And I have tried to make the other muffler (842?) work. It does not. Well, other than to muffle the engine.

Truth be told, the only exhaust system with which I have personal experience and that works as well as the E-2030 is a "real" pipe, that being a muffled version of the MACS aluminum pipe. In my view it works a little better even if those who see it sometimes make comments about lipstick on a pig. Still, I like the aluminum pipe for several reasons, one of which is the option of adjustability. Meaning the run can be made better or worse...

As to determining ABN 20FPs (and other models) from steelies I once got frustrated in trying to tell e-Bay sellers how to check for this. What ended up being the solution was to tell them to use a magnet held against the case.

Dan
 

You can get the 842 muffler to work.  Just get a friend with a small lathe to turn a hollow spool to extend the length to match the 2030.  Pro'lly not practical for sale, but it only takes a few minutes and a small chunk of aluminum.

[Phil Krankowski]

You can get the 842 muffler to work.  Just get a friend with a small lathe to turn a hollow spool to extend the length to match the 2030.  Pro'lly not practical for sale, but it only takes a few minutes and a small chunk of aluminum.

Hmm.  Seeing I have a lathe in the garage I might get around to that.  I haven't turned much metal on it though, mostly wood.  It is an Atlas 10F.

Have you done this?  I presume the measurements for the design are "trivial"

I did compare screw hole patterns between the 25LA and 20FP. The pattern appears identical.  I took the plywood doubler (cut those today) and marked through the screw holes.  The cases are slightly different in width with the LA being enough wider that I'll have to open up my doubler with sandpaper.

Phil

[Tim Wescott]

I can freely interchange my LA 25 and FP 20, and the 2030 mufflers on both.

[Dennis Moritz]

How did you get to this level of complexity and intricacy? There are many simple flapless kits that would serve you, Phil. Almost any sport/stunt flapless plane will do the pattern. LA25s out of the box, with the stock muffler, provide a reliable stunt friendly run. Nice thing about those engines is that you can buy them now, brand new. Flite Streaks use dagger pointed ribs needing a two piece or hollowed out leading edge. The Brodak Lightning Streak is nearly identical, flies similarly, uses conventional wing construction. Easier to build without a warp. If you want to get up in the air quick, ARF Flite Streaks work well with an LA25. They will definitely do the pattern.

[Phil Krankowski]

How did you get to this level of complexity and intricacy? There are many simple flapless kits that would serve you, Phil. Almost any sport/stunt flapless plane will do the pattern. LA25s out of the box, with the stock muffler, provide a reliable stunt friendly run. Nice thing about those engines is that you can buy them now, brand new. Flite Streaks use dagger pointed ribs needing a two piece or hollowed out leading edge. The Brodak Lightning Streak is nearly identical, flies similarly, uses conventional wing construction. Easier to build without a warp. If you want to get up in the air quick, ARF Flite Streaks work well with an LA25. They will definitely do the pattern.

I am waiting on Maple engine bearer wood and parts to finish two scratch built flite streaks, and I have two (2) 25LA-S (now control line version, formerly RC version) with the desired 2030 muffler. 

I am not convinced that scratch building actually costs less than a kit, but the build is going well.  I have 2 straight wings that need a lot of sanding, most of the wood parts are now cut, and I am going with laminated fuselages, which is not very complex.  I might choose epoxy for fuselage #2 since I didn't get it laid up yet, and yellow glue takes days to dry in this application.

Wing #2 has a very slight asymmetry, top vs bottom.  The total error accumulation is about 1/16 of an inch in thickness, and all the ribs match.  I doubt the error will cause problems with the performance of the airplane.

If I did not have wood on hand to build 2 airplanes, and maybe a third, I am positive the cost of scratch building would be higher than buying a kit through Brodak.  I am enjoying the process though.

I also have three (3) 20 FP's in RC version, with the wrong muffler.  Yes, I can swap the mufflers between a 25LA and a 20FP.  The NVA is a different setup and not a direct swap, even though the venturi is the same part.  (Remote needle vs spray bar NVA)  Altering a muffler sounds like a fun idea (I like to tinker).  I will consider it IF I decide to use these 20 FP engines.  Purchasing another muffler is not unreasonable though.  Swapping mufflers at the field is a pain.

Phil

[Phil Krankowski]

I took apart the 2030 muffler and the 824 muffler.  In addition to the lengths being somewhat different, there is an extra cone piece inside the 2030 muffler.  It will be more than a simple turn a cylinder extension project.

Making an adjustable tuned pipe is probably easier.

Phil

[Dennis Moritz]

Laminating is best done using epoxy. I have even used CA to laminate flaps. Water based glues often warp balsa. A stock FP 20-40 neeldevalve will work without modification on an LA 25, 40, 46. Swap out the bar. Remote needle valves have a 90 degree bend that are easy to clog and more difficult to clear than a non-remote. I have run plenty of FPs 20-40, as well as LA 25s, 40s and 46s with tongue mufflers. Which we prefer in Philly. Much lighter. LA25s are fine as is or with a tongue muffler. If you're hacking your own fues, I have found lengthening the tail moment by 2 inches and lengthening the nose moment by an inch, smooth out maneuvers. If the plane is light, it should do a decent corner. Worry about that later. Warps and miss-alignments are much more to the point.

[Phil Krankowski]

That was something I didn't expect...mildew.

I wiped everything down with bleach, and left it unpressed since it seemed pretty dry before I bleached it.   Later it was peeled apart partway.

I decided that fuse is a write off; it is outside in the trash.

Phil

[Phil Krankowski]

Epoxy works much better... Imagine that...  I think my previous layups with yellow glue and balsa have been small enough to put in the closet adjacent to my desk instead of the basement, so much less moisture.

My Brodak order arrived.  I ordered the dual 2-line adjustable leadout such as recommended for Brodak's Flite Streak kit.
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/leadouts/dual-2-line-adjustable-leadout.html
yet it will not be wide enough for the openings in the ribs that the leads pass through.  I need to remove enough material to join the openings at the wingtip?!  I do also see that the wingtip and the plywood portion of the guide will reinforce the outermost rib.  I'll also need to remove considerable material from several ribs.  I am concerned by how this will affect the strength of the wing.

I am rather confused by how I should go about this, and am considering reverting to the fixed leadouts on the Top Flite plan.

Phil

[RknRusty]

......My Brodak order arrived.  I ordered the dual 2-line adjustable leadout such as recommended for Brodak's Flite Streak kit.
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/leadouts/dual-2-line-adjustable-leadout.html
yet it will not be wide enough for the openings in the ribs that the leads pass through.  I need to remove enough material to join the openings at the wingtip?!  I do also see that the wingtip and the plywood portion of the guide will reinforce the outermost rib.  I'll also need to remove considerable material from several ribs.  I am concerned by how this will affect the strength of the wing.

I am rather confused by how I should go about this, and am considering reverting to the fixed leadouts on the Top Flite plan.

Phil

I was wondering the same thing when I built my Sterling Yak-9 wing and had an adjustable leadout kit for it. I had to hog out a lot of wood in all of the ribs just to get the leadouts to pass through without binding for a fixed position. If I had made it adjustable, I would have had to remove way too much rib wood for comfort. Maybe I'll revisit the adjustable leadouts on my next build. I thought perhaps I was missing something and over complicating things, as I've been known to do.

Rusty

[Phil Krankowski]

Images of the leadout in both extremes.

[Tim Wescott]

I need to remove enough material to join the openings at the wingtip?!  I do also see that the wingtip and the plywood portion of the guide will reinforce the outermost rib.  I'll also need to remove considerable material from several ribs.  I am concerned by how this will affect the strength of the wing.

I am rather confused by how I should go about this, and am considering reverting to the fixed leadouts on the Top Flite plan.

Remove as much material as necessary and put in the adjustable leadouts.

[Phil Krankowski]

Remove as much material as necessary and put in the adjustable leadouts.

So, I pretty much won't have a center to the 4 outermost ribs?  Do I need the full amount of adjustment between the positions, or will I really set it to very near the plan location of the forward lead and not move much from there?

Phil

[Howard Rush]

I think Tim's right.  Kits often don't allow for sufficient leadout travel.  If you draw the extremes of the bellcrank travel and the extremes of the leadout travel you need, it makes a significant swath in the wing. Below is the area cleared for leadouts in my last airplane.  I lost a good amount of shear web in the left wing spar.  The airplane came out OK.  I did glue some vertical sticks on the ribs at the front and the back of the leadout swath. 

[Phil Krankowski]

I drew out a plot like that directly on my plan.  It makes sense.  I'll put some reinforcements on the ribs and a small shear web where it won't interfere.  Halfway done cutting on one wing...

Phil

[Dave_Trible]

I don't want to sound like the old wet rag but in truth these simple short coupled profiles are great for basic stunt training but won't benefit much from adjustable leadouts and if you are still a basic student, may be more confused by it than benefit from it.  I'd set the lead outs and CG stationary as per the plan and just go fly.

Dave

[Bill Johnson]

That makes a lot of sense, Dave. KISS principle.

[Phil Krankowski]

So...the allen wrench is 3/32 for the adjustable leadout so I built a 3 piece wingtip with 3 layers of 3/32, then thinking the wrench would not pass nicely when I tried it (it popped the hour old glue joint, didn't need fresh glue to re-glue) I built one using 3 layers of 1/8 inch...the results are quite thick either way.  

Is there a better way about building this wingtip?

I think I will use the thicker wingtip with some heavy profiling.

Phil

[john e. holliday]

Over on Stuka Stunt Works there are a series of posts on how to do different things while building model planes.  I have most of them printed off.  One of them was doing wingtips.   The center core is 1/8 thick balsa.  Then in the area of the slider/movable area of lead outs, is 1/16th ply overlapping the opening.  Of course 1/16th balsa fills in the rest of the tip.  Then for sanding a nice area for adhereing the covering is 1/8th balsa top and bottom.   If I wasn't so computer illiterate I would go borrow the posts and put them here.  But a search should find them if you look for lead out guide and/or wing tips.

But, as Dave says, if you are learning, most kits if built according to plans will get you thru a decent pattern.   Most of the newer kits like Brodak and RSM Dist. show the options of lead out guides and weight boxes. 

[Bill Sequira]

Phil, my 2 cents..... I have to agree with Tim W. The skyray is easy to build and fix. It flies VERY well. Better than you would think. It was my second plane after I learned on a Sterling P-51. I watched an intermediate flier fly one when I basically still learning on mine. He flew it so well it gave me a lot of confidence. In my opinion, the Skyray makes more graceful maneuvers than a Flightstreak for a novice. I still have that Skyray today. I never did plant it, even flying in beginner on windy days. Incidentally, I have two O.S. 20 FPs for sale if you are interested. They have been gently used. They look new. If interested you can email me. I can email you a picture. You can find me in "members". good luck.

Bill

[Brett Buck]

Note Dave Trible's suggestion above - unless you change a lot of other things, merely putting adjustable leadouts in a Yak-9 is not going to help very much. I would put them about an inch behind the calculated CG (15-16% of MGC) and not adjustable. The only adjustable things I would use are tipweight and elevator horn. And then, only because those are both very easy to do.

   My infamous Skyray 35 does not have adjustable leadouts and it hasn't been a serious issue, as anyone who has flown it can attest.

   No matter what you do to these sorts of models, they aren't going to be all that great. Most of the people you see flying them successfully in OTS and Classic (David Fitzgerald, Ted Fancher, Bart Klapinski, etc) are absolute master pilots, and know how to baby them through the flights to minimize their shortcomings. Even with that, David crashed Ted's Ringmaster several times when even his skills were not up to the task. The Ringmaster/Yak 9/Flying Clown/CG Shoestring/Buster type airplanes are NOT good stunt planes or even very good trainers. Enjoy them for what they are, mildly stuntable sport planes from ancient times, but don't get hung up trying to make them into Impacts, or even Flite Streaks.

    Brett

[Phil Krankowski]

Well, I have adjustable lead outs in ONE wing.  This wing is done deal at this point.  Weight box in both wings.  I haven't started cutting anything up in the second wing...yet. 

I am still on the fence about making the second adjustable.  I am tempted to not.

Phil

[RknRusty]

...My infamous Skyray 35 does not have adjustable leadouts and it hasn't been a serious issue, as anyone who has flown it can attest.

...No matter what you do to these sorts of models, they aren't going to be all that great..The Ringmaster/Yak 9/Flying Clown/CG Shoestring/Buster type airplanes are NOT good stunt planes or even very good trainers. Enjoy them for what they are, mildly stuntable sport planes from ancient times, but don't get hung up trying to make them into Impacts, or even Flite Streaks.

    Brett

Brett, I think your Skyray is much more famous than infamous. I've flown it and can attest to its friendliness to a beginning stunt pilot. On my first flight after it took the place of my Shoestring, I realized my skills really don't suck after all.

Phil, I'm inclined to agree with the aforementioned advice to not worry about the leadouts. I've suffered too many frustrations from over complicating things during my training days.

Rusty

[Phil Krankowski]

I've decided to solder on a 4-40 extension to the steel rod on my flite streaks.  I am undecided if I am using a metal clevis or a ball joint at the elevator.  This will provide me ease of setup and adjust ability at low cost.


Of course this is driven in part by this thread

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33453.0

Phil

[Steve Helmick]

When installing one of those plywood adjustable LO guides, put a 3/16" (or so) square balsa vertical at each end. Otherwise, you may break the ply out of the tip rib when you loosen or tighten the adj. screw. It's a messy repair, trust me. These OPP's are never quite right, it seems.  Steve

[55chevr]

I have had a lot of Flite Streaks. At least 30.  They are simple design that builds easy and they fly very well.   I never had adjustable lead outs in any of them.  My FS never lasted long enough to worry about trimming. Flew most as combat ships.  I tried a couple of different configurations and found that they fly the best if you build exactly as George designed it.  Ugly wing tips and flaps.

Joe

[Phil Krankowski]

I have had a lot of Flite Streaks. At least 30.  They are simple design that builds easy and they fly very well.   I never had adjustable lead outs in any of them.  My FS never lasted long enough to worry about trimming. Flew most as combat ships.  I tried a couple of different configurations and found that they fly the best if you build exactly as George designed it.  Ugly wing tips and flaps.

Joe

Then I'll do the wing with fixed lead outs per the Top Flite plan.  I decided this is too much effort in the wing surgery. 

The plane with the adjustable leads is ready for sanding and paint...or something.  I bought blue monokote and I am contemplating wrapping it instead of painting it, but I have never wrapped a profile before. 

Phil

[55chevr]

Of the 30 or so that I built , the only one that flew ugly was a Combat Streak.  Never figured out why but it slacked overhead.  All the rest stayed out on the lines ... The wing tips make a difference and they do fly better with them. A bunch I built using the fuselage wing hole knock out for a slab wing tip on one side and made the other from 1/2" sheet ... I did that for durability, the kit wing tips are fragile.  Later on I made replacement wing tips out of 1/8 in the stock swept back shape once I realized they fly better.  Old GMA knew what he was doing.   Flite Streaks are a lot more sensitive than Ringmasters so fly it carefully. Think I will build another one after talking about it.

Joe

[john e. holliday]

If you do the Monokote route do a search on here and over on Stuka Stunt Works.   It takes patience and time to do it right.   Same with using the different types of paints.   The only reason I use adjustable lead outs is I make my lead outs closer together.  I have many planes built box stock that fly great.

[Serge_Krauss]

A bit late on this, but...

I put adjustable leadouts in my Sterling Yak-9 with no trouble. I made different tips anyway, because ,,,well, mine are "nicer." They are not overly thick and presented no particular challenge. A leadout guide doesn't have to go on the tip or in a rib. Put it where it fits. I had no problem increasing wing slots for the lines. As for tips for adjustable leadouts, just make the center ply the thickness necessary for the tool of choice (that and length/position are the design starts). and choose the rest to suit aesthetic and strength requirements. Since I don't want lines to abraid the top and bottom of the slot, I line it with epoxied 1/64" ply, or you could use some other laminate. The point is that these operations are 1-off to suit what you have at hand and take very little time compared to the time building and finishing the model. I think they're usually worthwhile. Building yopur own design is fun. Keep it up. Advice here has been good.

[Phil Krankowski]

Two built airframes.  Much sanding left to do still, but it is all lightweight work.  The weather is against me since I am not allowed to paint or sand in the house.  The elevators are wrapped, but I want to paint before covering since I find the end result better.

Dad went to the LHS I went to growing up and scored 3 jars of dope for $2 each, Red, White and Blue!  Cleaned them out in the process.  I have clear already. 

It is Christmas break now so that means I have less time...  I need to get a picture on here of them hanging in the basement.

Now, I haven't put eyes on the ends of the lead out wires yet.  How long is normal for the extension past the wingtip?  I have about a foot of wire, maybe more, to work with.  I was thinking 4-6 inches.

Phil

[Howard Rush]

How long is normal for the extension past the wingtip? 

Just long enough not to hit the leadout guide at full control.

[Phil Krankowski]

Just long enough not to hit the leadout guide at full control.

Then ALL my planes, even the ones Dad set up when I was a kid, have way too much lead sticking out!   

I'll find a happy length and go with it. 

Phil

[Tim Wescott]

Howard quoted a minimum.  You certainly don't need to be longer than that, but to my knowledge it doesn't hurt to be an inch or two more.

Look at pictures and see where other people put theirs.  My rule of thumb is: if a Nat's winner does it, then it's OK for me to do it.

[Phil Krankowski]

All my 1/2A planes have 4-6 inches, or more, sticking out. 

One has spectra lines that I put on recently that can come back to the fuselage!  There is a reason for this, I had to lace the line through the mostly sealed wing, and it is a hitch through the bell crank using a continuous loop of spectra tied to a thimble.  This replaced a set of wire leads that were hanging on a rib causing control loss.

To install those replacements I clipped the original leads, used the lead to pull a messenger line, pulled the loop into the wing with the messenger line, drawing a second messenger, fed through the bell crank, then used the second messenger to draw the loop out of the wing tip guide, pass it over the eyelet, and then snug it all the way back to the bell crank.  I only made a small hole in the covering in the rib bay next to the sheeting to access the ends of the bell crank.  I have leads like this on plank wing planes; the line doesn't slide around, so it doesn't wear at the bell crank.  The same process was used, but the bell crank was unscrewed so the leads did not need the same extreme length.

Phil

[Air Ministry .]

One of these pieces of rubish , on 55 ft lines , will fly a better pattern than half the stunt ships built .

If youre LEARNING the virtue is that theyre configured for CRASHING too , which isnt in the design schedule for most stunt ships .
So youll actually get some flying in , Every Day . You put the motor a nick further forward for C.G. Fwd - to steady it up .
Though with a silencer thatd be unneccesary . the wing loadings about 10 ounces for 5.000 Sq. ft. , or whatever they are .