I have two comments based on the posts above from Arch Adamisin and Howard Rush.
1. As to the comments from Arch and his statements about seeding having no effect on who is going to win. Basically, I believe the system we have been using at the Nats for a number of years allows for the best flier at the Nats to win. I think that most would agree that regardless if there is "seeding" or not, the single best flier will win, given the assumption that the judges are "competent" and that they do their job. From one perspective, the purpose of the CLPA Nats is to determine who the National Stunt Champion is for that year. But, there are 40 or 50, maybe more, maybe less, that have prepared for the year and then bother to go to the Nats to fly in the Open CLPA competition. Most of those 40 or 50 know they will not win, but it is important to probably each of these individuals how well they place, not for some incongruous national recognition (when in actuality, very few care what the ranking is beyond the top 5 or 10 or 20), but the individual wants to know how well he performed. It may be for "bragging rights" at his local flying field, or more importantly and most probably, it is for his own personal knowledge to know how he "ranks" among his peers. So in this respect, it is important that the flying field is as level as possible so that some random circle assignments do not load up one group with particularly good fliers and another group is filled with comparative "duffers" prior to to the selection process to see who gets into the top twenty semifinals. At least that was the case years ago when there were separate qualification circles where each group flew on only their respective qualification circle, in front of one set of judges, using the single best of two flights to determine a group to go on to the finals. So, yes, we are looking to see who is the single best flier, but the Nats is also designed so that each competitor, regardless of his capabilities can have as fullfilling an experience as possible. That is why there is a two day qualification process which could easily be done in one day if all we were doing is looking for the single best flier. But that means that we would be back to the Pre-PAMPA formats where 30 to 40 people would get two flights on one day, with the chances of one of those flights being flown in weather, and their Nats experience with the year of preparation leading to it is finished with perhaps one consequential flight of less than 8 minutes. So, the Nats are run to find the National champion, but it is run to fulfill whatever goals the other 50 or 60 individuals are seeking. They deserve a level flying field and that is what the PAMPA Nats format that has evolved over the years has tried to accomplish.
Now, to respond to Howard: In actuality, the format that is currently used at the Nats really makes the process of seeding unnecessary. (In fact, I think, over the years, that seeding has not always been done during the qualification process.) The reason that seeding has little effect on the outcome of our Nats is that even though each flier is assigned to a specific group during the qualification period, each flier in each group flies the same number of flights in front of the each group of judges. So it makes little difference if one group has a preponderance of good fliers while another does not. Each judge and each set of judges sees each flier the same number of times. But if seeding is used, that means that each set of judges during each round that is flown in front of them will see something that resembles a more similar range in the quality of flights seen throughout each round than if the fliers are randomly assigned to each qualification group. I would think that would tend to keep the judges a bit more alert to uniformly/correctly apply the range of their scoring from the particularly poor flights to the particularly good flights if seeding is done for the circle assignments. Otherwise, a judge, (not all - but some) might use a fairly narrow range of scoring through the day regardless of the overall quality of flights, and this same narrow range is used throughout each respective round. (Some may raise their eyebrows on this and ask how can this happen since we are supposed to have really good, experienced and competent judges at the Nats. Just let me say, it happens which is an argument to track how the judges perform during and after the Nats to determine who the best judges are to use during the finals round, whether it be the Open event or Advanced.) And regardless of the myths generated by the myth makers, the "poorer" ranked judges in this process are not all relegated to the Advanced circle. By the time the semifinals come around, some judges are relieved of their duties, but the quality of judges remaining is spread among the two groups. And then, for the finals round, at least in the past other judges are relieved of their duties and the most competent continue to judge. What the myth makers and those who subscribe to conspiracy theories do not comprehend (or choose not to comprehend as it has been explained to them on several occasions) is that considerable effort is taken by the Nats Event Director to balance the judges on the circles throughout the qualification process and for the judge assignments are made during the semifinals and finals rounds so that regionalism or the appearance of regionalism is minimized, and the known personal relationships between judges and the fliers - both favorable and unfavorable - and the appearance of such are minimized to the extent possible. Those efforts are taken to avoid the very charges from the myth makers and conspiracy seekers that have been made about how the Nats are run.
Now, the following comment is not directed at either Arch or Howard. I have not yet heard of an argument how seeding biases the outcome of our Nats. Our judges do not know who is seeded. There is no indication on their score sheets who is seeded. Yes, the judges know the names of various fliers and may be familiar with the reputation of the flying capability of certain individuals, but the judges are oblivious to whatever seeding process might have taken place.
Now, let the myth makers and conspiracy seekers continue their rant, but they know not of what they speak.
Keith Trostle
Topic: Seeding (Read 11192 times)
