Author Topic: Legacy (Read 7832 times)

stephen hollier · « **on:** October 18, 2010, 09:49:30 AM »

Won / traded for a Legacy kit (thanks Nick) at the Baton Rouge contest. Does anyone have any tips on building this plane. I have always wanted a larger stunt ship and now I have it. Power I was planing on using a RO Jett .76 on pipe.

Gary Anderson · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:10:12 PM »

Hi Stephen,

If you look in search you will find several articles about the legacy. The only change I noticed has about the landing gear and the lead outs. The plane is a great plane and most love it so if ya get a chance read all the articles and let us know how the building is going. You will see there is a lot of different type engines being used and they all seem to be working and your choice is one of them. Please post some pictures as you build, always like seeing progress of the toys, Gary

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2010, 01:02:21 PM »

the kit landing gear is not bent correctly - it is too short - apparantly it is bent off the front view of the gear that is hown on the plans and does not account for the forward rake......
other than that - the kits are very nice and the legacy is a great flying plane - I have an electric version. the 76 sounds like a beast ....you will have a LOT of power.... I have flown legacies that have LA46s in them and they even fly well

James Mills · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2010, 06:04:51 PM »

Quote from: stephen hollier on October 18, 2010, 09:49:30 AM

Won / traded for a Legacy kit (thanks Nick) at the Baton Rouge contest. Does anyone have any tips on building this plane. I have always wanted a larger stunt ship and now I have it. Power I was planing on using a RO Jett .76 on pipe.

Stephen,

If you have any questions as you go contact Allen Brickhaus, it's his design and he's always happy to help. I've got one going together as we speak.

By the way, I'll be going with a PA 61/pipe.

James

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2010, 08:00:50 PM »

I'm getting started on one too. Looks like it's going to be a Legacy Winter for us. PA 65RE for mine.

stephen hollier · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »

Clint / James thanks for the information. Please keep me posted on the construction. I live in Houston and Richard Oliver is very close to me and I have had great results with his motors and I figure a little extra power won't hurt. PA's are good as well but they are becoming hard to find and will be even harder in the future. Thanks again

wwwarbird · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2010, 09:02:06 PM »

The Saito .56 works extremely well in the Legacy too. They're also easy to find and affordable.

stephen hollier · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2010, 09:57:07 AM »

I was looking in Control line world and noticed Brodak's engine the Aviastar .61 has anyone tried this engine??

Brad Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2010, 10:01:39 AM »

I have a ST51 in mine and works great.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2010, 10:03:53 AM »

I believe you guys will enjoy the Legacy. The comments are correct on the landing gear. I lent a longer set to Dennis Vander Kurr at the SIG contest and it worked well for him. He went home and bent up a new and correct length gear and is totally happy with the model.

petermick · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2010, 10:41:44 AM »

I built my Legacy in 2004 and have been running an older ST 60. I too have had trouble with the landing gear. I became so frustrated with it noseing over on grass when landing I changed to a fuselage mounted gear. This solved my problem.

Pete

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2010, 02:29:31 PM »

Quote from: stephen hollier on October 19, 2010, 09:57:07 AM

I was looking in Control line world and noticed Brodak's engine the Aviastar .61 has anyone tried this engine??

the Aviastar is HEAVY and the 61 is a pig to get to run right - the 53? is a better motor for stunt - BUT you still need to modify the head

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:00:38 AM »

One Legacy has a Saito .56 and the front engine holes were fitted to the stock back motor mount holes in the model. The nose was then shortened and fitted to the Saito.

Allen

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2010, 06:08:38 PM »

Quote from: petermick on October 19, 2010, 10:41:44 AM

I built my Legacy in 2004 and have been running an older ST 60. I too have had trouble with the landing gear. I became so frustrated with it noseing over on grass when landing I changed to a fuselage mounted gear. This solved my problem.

Pete

I just added a nose wheel (among a few other mods)

wwwarbird · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:35:28 PM »

Quote from: Allen Brickhaus on October 20, 2010, 07:00:38 AM

One Legacy has a Saito .56 and the front engine holes were fitted to the stock back motor mount holes in the model. The nose was then shortened and fitted to the Saito.

Allen

That sounds like Keith's plane Allen. The engine move was made only to allow for balance using the slightly heavier four-stroke. It was a super solid, dead consistent combo for hundreds of flights until a handle malfunction killed it pulling out of a square last season. I watched and pitted that plane a lot, hard to imagine a better plane/engine combo. He's got another in the works.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2010, 06:39:45 AM »

Quote from: stephen hollier on October 19, 2010, 09:57:07 AM

I was looking in Control line world and noticed Brodak's engine the Aviastar .61 has anyone tried this engine??

John Violette was running the Avistar 61 in his T-Rex at Baton Rouge for PA. He and I pitted/launched for each other. I talked with him about the Avistar, it was stock. I watched it close, it had a nice run. In that price range I would also look at the new Enya 61 side exhaust. I think its about an ounce lighter.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2010, 11:15:22 AM »

I have two LEGACY models. One built from a Brodak kit, and the other scratch-built. Neither have that ugly rudder. So my recommendation for building the kit: draw an elegant rudder shape!

(other mods are not as necessary, but you might try some different wing tips. Or build up a turtledeck instead of sticking a bubble canopy on top of things.)

Floyd

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2010, 01:43:22 PM »

Hello Stephen,
I am confused, why are PA engines difficult to get hold of? Has Randy Smith stopped production?

Regards,

Andrew.

Dick Pacini · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2010, 06:47:07 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on October 23, 2010, 11:15:22 AM

I have two LEGACY models. One built from a Brodak kit, and the other scratch-built. Neither have that ugly rudder. So my recommendation for building the kit: draw an elegant rudder shape!

(other mods are not as necessary, but you might try some different wing tips. Or build up a turtledeck instead of sticking a bubble canopy on top of things.)

Floyd

Well, everyone is entitled to his opinion, but I think it is a bit uncalled for to openly criticize an airplane when the designer is alive and kicking and even posting in this thread. Of course, change the rudder if you wish and maybe even say that you didn't care for the original, but to call it ugly is a bit strong and uncalled for. Allen designed a fine airplane that many people have built as it was drawn or kitted.

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2010, 10:47:02 PM »

Hard to argue with success, walk the nats at the "L" pad and that will be one of the most common planes there.. A real killer plane when built right....Great Job Allen!
Of all the planes he has had kitted and published......Legacy may be the best!

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2010, 05:59:30 AM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on October 23, 2010, 07:09:23 PM

As I understand it, the maker of his parts has retired and refuses to sell his molds, etc to anyone overseas.

Maybe Fox should make him an offer

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2010, 06:03:04 AM »

Quote from: Terry Bolin on October 23, 2010, 10:47:02 PM

Hard to argue with success, walk the nats at the "L" pad and that will be one of the most common planes there.. A real killer plane when built right....Great Job Allen!
Of all the planes he has had kitted and published......Legacy may be the best!

Considering the Legacy is a modified Genisis it has a thoroughbred family tree.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2010, 07:58:40 AM »

That claim has always been mentioned by me and Bob Hunt has always given me the lead to use what I feel is successful. I try very hard to credit those with whom I borrow ideas. I respect my fellow modelers and cannot be successful without the efforts accomplished by so many before me. His Prowler design was the focus of the Scepter 500 project. The full sized Scepter was of course, a Genesis line model. The line runs through all the Buccaneer's (9), The full-bodied Scepter, The Mr. Brickhaus' OPUS as published in Aviation Modeler International, and the Legacy 60 and now upcoming Legacy 40 from Brodak. The Envoy Series was more on the lines of Ted Fancher's ideas. Although Envoy 5 was a Genesis variant. Envoy VI has now a PA 65 and is ready for the 2011 season.

Thanks to all for your help.

Allen Brickhaus

wwwarbird · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2010, 11:02:43 AM »

Quote from: Dick Pacini on October 23, 2010, 06:47:07 PM

Well, everyone is entitled to his opinion, but I think it is a bit uncalled for to openly criticize an airplane when the designer is alive and kicking and even posting in this thread. Of course, change the rudder if you wish and maybe even say that you didn't care for the original, but to call it ugly is a bit strong and uncalled for. Allen designed a fine airplane that many people have built as it was drawn or kitted.

Right on Dick.

I've always really liked the lines of the Legacy, a perfect blend between a Classic and Modern look to my eyes. I even sort of copied the rudder outline on my little Shark 402, only because I didn't (personally) care for it's original outline.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2010, 11:35:03 AM »

Nice presentation Wayne. Do you know as yet when Polk City will happen in May of 2011?

Allen Brickhaus

John Miller · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2010, 01:36:27 PM »

I worked closely with Allen on the design of his Legacy. I've also heard others say that it is nothing more than a Genesis as well. Let me please add some information as my friend Allen is too much of a gentleman to say much on this subject.

At the time I was contacted to help with the CAD work, Allen and I were living about 2000 miles apart, though we knew each other well from my years living in the midwest. Allen and I spent literally hours on the phone, and internet consulting, and working on the Legacy.

As Allen mentioned above the Genesis influence occurred with his earlier designs, and it's true that the base inspiration was his larger Buccaneer design. The Legacy came about because the earlier kit maker of the Bucaneers would not release the design to another kit maker after his CL kit making was discontinued, and he moved on to RC.

I have an original Bucaneer kit and it was used early to begin the Legacy design, but much was changed.

The nose legnth was altered to accept the St-60 and it's fuel tank. This changed the nose moment. The wing was changed to use a NACA 4 digit airfoil, at about 20% I believe, with it's blunter leading edge compared to the Bucaneer. The wing was made larger. The tail moment was legnthened. The stab and elevator were enlarged to become a larger percentage of the wing area, and the percentage of stab to elevator was changed from 50-50%, to 60-40%.

The percentage of flap to wing was modified slightly.

The signature truss style bulkheads were incorporated to stiffen the aft fuselage.

Allens style of removable tail wheel was incorporated.

These are a lot of changes that he made to still call it a Genesis, even though that's a very favorble design to be compared with.

Now all the above comes from my memory, and though I believe it to be accurate, with increasing age I have found small details sometime elude me.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2010, 04:04:10 PM »

Allen and John,

Hmm, sounds more like a Legacy than a Genesis to me then.

Allen,

I'm not sure, but I would imagine Polk City will be the first weekend in May as usual. Still crossing my fingers for Sig too. Time to get building!

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2010, 08:11:22 PM »

John,

Thank you,

Allen

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #28 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:43:04 PM »

I still have a Buccaneer kit from Custom Models. My wife got it for my 26th B-day (now I'm 41). Before I got around to building it, the Legacy was released by Brodak. I was immediatly on the phone with them for 2 kits. It's about time I got around to building one of these fine birds. I'm going to set up the nose to accept both the PA 65 and the RO JETT 61. It's going to be a fun winter in the shop!

BTW Allen, I like the rudder.

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #29 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:52:41 PM »

Hey Clint, I'll race you to finish a Legacy kit first! I too have the Brodak kit (beautiful wood selection) that will be for the PA61 on pipe. It will be started as soon as I finish the Legacy ARF I am putting together for electric. The lions share of electric conversion work is done and I expect to mate the parts this week, maybe have it flyable mid November (we can do that in California). And I like the rudder/fin as well, a nice change from the angular fins that are common.

Nice flying at Clovis by the way. You came home with the P-51 in one piece, cause for celebration in itself!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #30 on:** October 25, 2010, 11:09:13 PM »

L I K E
Y T
L H
L E
A R
E U
R D
I D
Actually Allen, E
R

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #31 on:** October 26, 2010, 06:28:50 AM »

Up and until the Scepter, the Buccaneers always had the more angular and straight-line rudders. Thus my desire to soften the aesthetics a bit. Thus the end results that you see on the Legacy from John Miller and me. The Envoy series has the twin rudder look that was "stolen" as it were from Bob Gialdini and Gene's Stunt Machine, Statesman, etc. Any time that I am doing a semi-scale such as the Flying Red Horse P-63C, Folkert's SK-4, Petie II P-51 Mustang, Miss Dara, Fairey Barracuda, etc. I copy the shape of the real aircraft. Still have a list of projects in the works and on my list to accomplish.

Gary Anderson · « **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:57:15 AM »

Hi Allen,
At the moment I'm working on two of your legacy's, one a kit the other a scratch build. I wouldn't change anything about the way your plane looks. I think its a great looking plane and I'm looking forward to flying it. The plane is very big compared to most and there is a lot of great design in her. I thank you for developing this plane for the rest of us. Please keep up the great work.

Gary Anderson

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2010, 10:55:57 AM »

I think you will like the model if built straight and light. Please enjoy your time with the Legacy.

Allen Brickhaus

Brad Smith · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2010, 11:02:53 AM »

I have been flying my Legacy for 4 years i love it. It is powerd by a ST51 the late Jim Coll built it for me and coached me on it to, i miss him. Im getting ready to build one myself just waiting to here if the Legacy arc is going to be boom legal if not i will build one of Brodaks kits.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2010, 05:22:00 PM »

I think that any ARC is BOM legal, the ARF's are not.

Allen

Luiz Ribeiro · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:05:20 PM »

Quote from: Allen Brickhaus on October 26, 2010, 05:22:00 PM

I think that any ARC is BOM legal, the ARF's are not.

Allen

Pardon, I am from Brazil and my native language is Portuguese, so I didn’t understand exactly what you mean with “boom legal” or “BOM legal”. Do you consider that the ARF's are not good planes?

Luiz

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Luiz Ribeiro on October 26, 2010, 08:05:20 PM

Pardon, I am from Brazil and my native language is Portuguese, so I didn’t understand exactly what you mean with “boom legal” or “BOM legal”. Do you consider that the ARF's are not good planes?

Luiz

Luiz - BOM mean Builder of model - in the States they have rules that you have to build the plane you are flying to get appearance points - then again - they have appearance points.......funny people sometimes

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:22:26 PM »

Hi Luiz,

Our current rules don't allow ARF models to compete under Builder Of Model (BOM) rules. The rules do allow ARC models to compete.

Cheers,
Jim

Luiz Ribeiro · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:29:49 PM »

OK! Thank You for the answers.

On time: I liked very much the rudder of the Legacy.

Cheers. Luiz

John Miller · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:38:25 PM »

Luis,

I hope this will translate into Portugese well.

The Boom was a typo. It was supposed to be BOM, meaning Builder Of the Model.

So, the question was not whether the ARF was a good plane, but if it would be allowed to fly at the Nat's or recieve appearance points at contests.

Here, the ARC's, but not the ARF's comply with the Builder of the Model rule.

Eu espero que este traduzirá no português bem.

O crescimento era um erro tipográfico. Sups-se para ser BOM, significando o construtor do modelo.

Assim, a pergunta não era se o ARF era um bom plano, mas se seria permitido voar no Nat' s ou recebe pontos da aparência em competições.

Aqui, o ARC' s, mas não o ARF' s cumpre com o construtor da régua modelo.

Luiz Ribeiro · « **Reply #41 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:49:46 PM »

John

The translation is not good, it is really awful, but I understood your explanations in English, they are very clear.

Thanks. Luiz

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2010, 05:48:24 AM »

My answer would have to be a very awful German, so I continue to struggle with English.

Enjoy the Legacy

Allen

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #43 on:** October 27, 2010, 11:00:38 PM »

Quote from: Mike Scholtes on October 25, 2010, 09:52:41 PM

Hey Clint, I'll race you to finish a Legacy kit first! I too have the Brodak kit (beautiful wood selection) that will be for the PA61 on pipe. It will be started as soon as I finish the Legacy ARF I am putting together for electric. The lions share of electric conversion work is done and I expect to mate the parts this week, maybe have it flyable mid November (we can do that in California). And I like the rudder/fin as well, a nice change from the angular fins that are common.

Nice flying at Clovis by the way. You came home with the P-51 in one piece, cause for celebration in itself!

A race? No thanks, I'd lose for sure unless it's a Flite Streak building race. I think I'll take my sweet time with the Legacy. I really need to do a good job and have a competitive model next year. The Mustang is cute but I think I'm at a disadvantage flying it in weather like we had last weekend in Clovis.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2010, 08:58:05 PM »

With a straight and light frame, plus a stunt perfect engine and tank combo, you should find the Legacy to be workable in the wind.

Allen Brickhaus

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #45 on:** October 28, 2010, 11:10:34 PM »

Hi Allen:

Thanks for your comments on this attractive and very capable plane; nice to know a bit about its pedigree from the breeder himself, so to speak. I am anxious to get the electric ARF into the air, and next the kit version with the PA61 in it. You mention "light and straight" several times. I will keep that in mind when deciding how perfect (ie how heavy) to try to make the finish.

I am joshing my friend Clint; he is a much better builder and finisher than I am. No way he would race to finish a build as nice as a kit Legacy. I am shooting for fall 2011 with mine. We certainly had a wind test last weekend at Golden State and we both wished we had bigger planes with more power and penetration. Kind of a male obsession I guess.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #46 on:** October 29, 2010, 06:10:15 AM »

A Legacy with a .75 pipe or the newest electronics would be great. I have an ARF here that might be my first full electric combo. I have published two columns on the Brodak electric clown, but this would be a deeper purchase of batteries, etc. for the full sized Legacy. Brodak is coming out with a full bodied Legacy 40 this year and you might think of that with a Randy Merlin PA 40 and pipe. Jim Aron has certainly pushed the model size and engine size limit to its fullest with his Nats model. The Legacy 40 is about 20 square inches less than his model.

Allen

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #47 on:** October 29, 2010, 09:46:10 PM »

Jimby actually pushed the envelope a little further than you may be aware of. He put a PA65 on pipe into an ARF Vector as "proof of concept" for the Systrema. Us NorCal locals got to see history made! Worked pretty well. I have a modified Oriental Plus ready for final color coats with a PA40UL in it, that should have been flying months ago until I got too busy to finish it. May have time over the winter months. I have only the PA61 so that will have to be what goes into the kit Legacy.

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #48 on:** October 30, 2010, 04:24:05 PM »

Outstanding.

Allen