Rules Question

[James Mills]

 While I was flying today the loop in my safety thong came undone when I was preparing to takeoff. If this would have been an official flight at a contest would I have had to take an attempt, would the flight have been D.Q., or what?

Thanks,

James
 

[Bill Little]

HI James,

I don't know for *sure*, but I think it would be as least a DNF and quite possibly a DNQ for a safety rule violation. 

Now, if you got it back on before take off.............. ?

Mongo

[john e. holliday]

Reading this over here.  You say it came un done before take off?  You should have time to get it back together.  If not, take an attempt and fix it.  I have in the past seen people have problems on the circle with engine starting.  They got all flusered and ran to the handle once engine was running.  They forgot the safety thong and it is hanging in plain site to us judges.  We proceed to watch either pilot do what ever he/she is going to do or watch other people.  No scoring as that is a foul and becomes an attempt.  The looks on their faces makes me wish for a camera at times.   

[James Mills]

Reading this over here.  You say it came un done before take off?  You should have time to get it back together.  If not, take an attempt and fix it.  I have in the past seen people have problems on the circle with engine starting.  They got all flusered and ran to the handle once engine was running.  They forgot the safety thong and it is hanging in plain site to us judges.  We proceed to watch either pilot do what ever he/she is going to do or watch other people.  No scoring as that is a foul and becomes an attempt.  The looks on their faces makes me wish for a camera at times.   
[/quote
Doc,

If this would have been at a contest I would have stopped before take off if possible, but I was practicing so finished the flight.  Like I said in the post, just curious what the protocol would be if it happened during a flight.  Hope to see you in October.

James

[Michael Massey]

The first thought that crosses my mind is that the pre-flight pull test and safety thong inspection should have caught the problem.  Reading the AMA rules relative to Precision Aerobatics leaves the thong, handle and line inspection somewhat vague.  Clearly the pull test includes the lines and, to a degree the handle but does not, and from a practical standpoint, cannot include the safety thong.  My limited experience with contests is that the pull tests are done well but safety thong inspections are somewhat inconsistent.  Maybe it behooves us to "look at" how we can make the handle and thong inspection more meaningful and beneficial to all.

[Dan McEntee]

  If it falls off, or you forget to  put it on, it is a foul, and you are charged with an attempt for that flight with no score. Pretty much the same as a part falling off your model in flight. This has happened at SIG a couple of times, and I think at least once at our contest and that is what the CDs determined in both cases.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Terry Bernard]

While I was flying today the loop in my safety thong came undone when I was preparing to takeoff. If this would have been an official flight at a contest would I have had to take an attempt, would the flight have been D.Q., or what?

Thanks,

James

While the consequences of having the thong come apart at a contest are quite clear, you seem to differentiate the issue as it pertains to a "practice" flight. IMHO since the wearing of the thong is required by the AMA as a standard safety precaution if you made ANY flight without it and had an accident (regardless of the nature of it) the insurance company would likely try to deny coverage and come after you for not following required procedures and not trying to mitigate the damage. If the flight was made at a club field you could cause the club to lose the field and / or become partally liable for having "let" you fly without the thong.

Terry.

[James Mills]

While the consequences of having the thong come apart at a contest are quite clear, you seem to differentiate the issue as it pertains to a "practice" flight. IMHO since the wearing of the thong is required by the AMA as a standard safety precaution if you made ANY flight without it and had an accident (regardless of the nature of it) the insurance company would likely try to deny coverage and come after you for not following required procedures and not trying to mitigate the damage. If the flight was made at a club field you could cause the club to lose the field and / or become partally liable for having "let" you fly without the thong.

Terry.

Terry,

You're reading a lot into this that isn't so.  I wasn't at a club field, was already in the process of taking off (I should have worded the original post better instead or preparing to take off) and was also the only person flying at the field (on roughly 80 acres, if the plane cuts loose it's going in a open field or a tree).  I'm not being flippant concerning safety and wouldn't purposely put others at risk physically or litigious.  Anyway, this is getting away from the original questions.

James

[john e. holliday]

The first thought that crosses my mind is that the pre-flight pull test and safety thong inspection should have caught the problem.  Reading the AMA rules relative to Precision Aerobatics leaves the thong, handle and line inspection somewhat vague.  Clearly the pull test includes the lines and, to a degree the handle but does not, and from a practical standpoint, cannot include the safety thong.  My limited experience with contests is that the pull tests are done well but safety thong inspections are somewhat inconsistent.  Maybe it behooves us to "look at" how we can make the handle and thong inspection more meaningful and beneficial to all.

Since it was noticed at a NATS several years ago, the pulling of the thong/safety strap is a known.  It is like cheating,  if you don't get caught, it is not cheating.  I my self don't pull test the equipment each time I fly.

[RandySmith]

They pull both lines and handle and  also do a separate pull on the safety  thong at The NATs,every time you fly the thong is pulled


Randy