Author Topic: RINGMASTER: .25 or .40??? (Read 3696 times)

Joe Messinger · « **on:** November 09, 2006, 10:23:01 PM »

Hello,

Recently, I've been having an ongoing "discussion" with a friend who I fly with on week ends. Hopefully some of you could help me settle the subject of our debate.

One of my planes is a classic Sterling Ringmaster. I had an Enya .25 SS mounted on it but have had some troubles with it so I'm going to try another engine. I think an OS .25 LAS would be a good choice. My friend (who is much more experienced than I) says I should go with an OS .40 LAS. He contends that more power is always better.

I can't help but think the .40 is too much for a Ringmaster. But, as I grow older (make that old) I've learned not be "absolute" about anything. I have seen Ringmasters fly very well with the LAS .25 but I can't say that about the .40 because I have never seen that plane fly with one.

If some of you will, please, offer your opinion, I would be most grateful.

Thanks,

Joe

Garf · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:31:22 PM »

If you have ANY ringmaster questions, visit this site:

http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/

Ken Deboy · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2006, 11:20:10 PM »

The 25 should be plenty. The 40 will add about 3 oz weight over the 25, and I'd wonder about prop clearance too. Also check out the link in Phil's post.

cheers,
Ken

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2006, 07:11:48 AM »

Best thing you can do is weigh your Ringmaster and let us know what it weighs. Many Ringmasters have floundered around the sky with 35's and 40's but a 25 is really a better choice.

Just built one that weighs 24 ounces with a Brodak 40. The idea was to let it tractor around in a four stroke smoken like a freight train. Sad part is the nose is resonant right where the B40 needs to run so the 40 isn't going to work out as I had hoped.

The solution is a Fox 35 with a ceramic coated aluminum P&L that is really a 30. It likes to run in a rich two and with the right prop it will be more than enough poop.

If I had another Brodak 25, that would really be my choice, sure be glad when Brodak gets more in.

Jim Treace · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2006, 07:45:59 AM »

Joe:
I just finished a RSM Ringmaster and power is an OS 25 LA (pretty much the same engine at the LAS, just doesn't have the remote needle). Model weighs 26 oz and flies just fine on the .25 and looks good too. The grandkids like it and can fly it also. The OS 25 is really a nice and powerful engine.
For general use, I would think that a .40 would be a bit too much.
www.rsmdistribution.com

Jim

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:44:35 PM »

Just finished this one a few weeks ago. Silkspan and dope on the fuse, $Kote on the wing, good FOX35 muffled, weighs 31oz, and I like the way if flies. Nothin' like the sound of a good old fox break on the climbs and hiccup in the bottom outsides.

Phil

john e. holliday · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2006, 01:08:12 PM »

I beleive that Dave Fitzgerald was flying a Ringmaster at VSC with a 19 up front. Of course he makes it look easy. Now remember guys/gals that todays 25's have more ump or the same as a well broken in Fox 35. Anything more is over kill unless you are flying combat like we used to do with the hottest engine of the time. Also remember to keep it light. Later, DOC Holliday

Joe Messinger · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2006, 09:13:56 PM »

Thanks, everyone, for the opinions on the Ringmaster power plant.

I think I'll go with the .25. I'm pretty sure I was going to do that anyway but needed some

back up for when my friend jumps me about my choice.

By the way, I saw John Brodak yesterday and he said he has Bordak .25 engines in stock now. The .40 engines should be available shortly.

Thanks,

Joe

Bill Little · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2006, 11:06:09 AM »

Quote from: jeholliday on November 10, 2006, 01:08:12 PM

I beleive that Dave Fitzgerald was flying a Ringmaster at VSC with a 19 up front. Of course he makes it look easy. Now remember guys/gals that todays 25's have more ump or the same as a well broken in Fox 35. Anything more is over kill unless you are flying combat like we used to do with the hottest engine of the time. Also remember to keep it light. Later, DOC Holliday

Hi Doc,

The infamous Fitzgerald Ringmaster had a Veco .19 BB up front. Amazing, but the Veco 19 BB is a great engine for the old Sterling Profiles like the Mustang and Yak! I have the fuselage and other parts, all copied from a kit with new wood, ready for paint for a Yak. Just got to trace and correct some new ribs for a wing and it will be my next OTS plane. Gluing the flaps on for the extra 10 points! The Veco .19 BB is installed.

Bill <><

Mike Greb · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2006, 12:26:48 PM »

I am kind like a fox combat special for my ringmaster

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2006, 04:20:24 PM »

NW Skyraider's own Ben Jones has been flying a couple of restored old kit (i.e., heavy) Ringmasters with an old .19 and .25LA. One had a .35 on it, and he told me the .19 was an improvement, because of reduced weight and removal of tail weight required with the .35. Dunno if Ben comes here, but you can find him on SSW, occasionally.

One of the worst features of the Ringmaster is the plywood control horn. They wear out quickly and are much too short. A long control horn (Sullivan makes a great one, and Tower sells them) is crucial with the Ringmaster.

Steve

Chris Brainard · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2006, 07:20:14 PM »

Hi Bill,
Agree with you on the Veco .19 B.B. What a sweetheart of an engine! Mine is on a Fancy Pants and it has never flown so well. We are in Denver, one mile above sealevel, a double whammy, both a loss in lift and a loss in power. The Veco provides plenty of power, but more importantly, the right kind of power, coming on just when needed, backing off at just the right time. This consistency really makes the airplane easy to fly. The smaller airplanes can be really fun to fly, and surprisingly, can fly quite well with the right powerplant. Unfortunately, selection of really good small powerplants is pretty limited.
Chris

Joe Messinger · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2006, 08:40:49 PM »

I had an Enya .19 on a Ringmaster that was manufactured by Estes. It is considerably lighter than Sterling's original. The plane flew, but not well. I tried several combinations of needle settings and props but nothing seemed to work very well. The plane would do an inside loop but barley made it over the top.

A Brodak .25 turned the Estes Ringmaster into a much different animal. No, not a great stunter but not bad . . .

Joe

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2006, 01:47:29 PM »

Hi, Joe - sorry but I can't subscribe to that "you always need more power" or "too much power still isn't enough" theory.

If that's truly the case, then why not put the new RoJett .90 on a Nobler?

I've seen St .46s on Noblers and Smoothies, and LA .46s on Orientals. None seemed to fly better than a comparable plane with a .35 or .40.

The .25 is fine for the Ringmaster - In fact, we flew a somewhat heavy one with an OS .20 4S - Dan won many a trophy with it.

Bob Z.

Gil Reedy · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2006, 03:56:16 PM »

Am currently flying a scratch-built RM with an OS .26 4s--what a nice combo. Will do the pattern with ease.

Joe Messinger · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2006, 06:40:21 PM »

I ordered an LA .25 today for the Ringmaster.

Thanks to all who offered their advice.

Joe

Frederick Fielder · « **Reply #16 on:** December 26, 2006, 08:32:02 PM »

Joe,
This post may be a little late (Dec. 26th) but I've just joined. The question on engine size is proper and should apply to weight, wind and other factors. I'm flying a RSM Ringmaster powered with a stock Fox .25. The weight of my highly modified plane is 35 oz and I'm using a 9X4 prop and flying in a 6 mph wind. I don't stunt yet (I'm new) and only go around in circles and up and down till I'm dizzzzy. The plane flies like a tank and lands like such. It's FUN.
Frederick

George · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2006, 11:34:31 AM »

Joe,

Was there a reason for not just troubleshooting that Enya .25?

George

Garf · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2006, 02:32:02 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on November 10, 2006, 07:11:48 AM

The solution is a Fox 35 with a ceramic coated aluminum P&L that is really a 30. It likes to run in a rich two and with the right prop it will be more than enough poop.

I have one of these in a Trixter Barnstormer. I like it.

Phil

Joe Gilbert · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2006, 05:13:54 AM »

Joe put, the 25 on it with out a muffler 9x4 or 9x5 prop, 58 foot .12 lines it will be very good. My B-25 powered one has a 9x5 APC at 9500 at launch and does well.