Redhead McCoy .19 - What is a good plane for this motor???

[Mark Misegadis]

Hi All,

I have 3 of these motors and when trying to come up with a plane that would be a could candidate to put them on I find a couple of regular scenarios.

1) Smaller planes always appear to be built towards the use of a Fox .15   
Sig Shoestring and Sig Buster for instance. The small version of the Ringmaster too. (I have one of these.....)

2) Whenever the .19 is mentioned its always .19-.35   
Brodak Tomahawk for instance.
That is one heck of a range for power plants and I find it hard to believe that it would be adequate for a 41” WS bird but what do I know?

** The only plane that looks suitable appears to be the SIG Akromaster.

I am in Colorado so the altitude is high and might be something to consider here when working this combination.

Question 1)  The Sig Buster and Shoestring… Think a .19 would work??? Or is that just asking for trouble.
Question 2)  Are there any other good possibilities other than the Akromaster?
Question 3) Tomahawk… ??  Man this is a good looking plane.. but I want one that looks just like that Brodak picture!

Thanks, Mark

[EddyR]

All American. Not the sr.They fly great on a .19. You can add 2-3" to the wing span and they will fly better and a .19 will still do it.
Ed

[Jim Thomerson]

I flew one in a Mackey Profile, Flying Models Sept. '59 and really liked it.  Ty gives good advice on fuel, lines, and prop. 

[Bill Hummel]

Don't laugh, but my first "real" stunter was a Jr Nobler kit with a McCoy 19 redhead. Actually did a few rough maneuvers, and the Jr Nobler flew MUCH better than any profile I had.  Please listen to Ty about proper fuel for the McCoys...but that's another story.

[Mark Misegadis]

Hey Guys, thanks for the info.

As for the assumption that I am green.. yes. its a good one and accurate.
I was a little worried about the fuel so that advice is great.  As far as planes go..I would like to hear about anything that I can buy in a kit form. I am not at all against scratchbuilding but that will come later. I was able to get a look at the SIG Shoestring today and I think that I could make a McCoy .19 work in there pretty easy as far as fit.

I guess the question now is... "Should I?"

I looked at the measurements on the Tomahawk.. and I think I would be better running something that is at least in the middle of what they suggest for engines.

I looked at that All American Sr as well.

We compared Fox 15's for size to the McCoy .19 and there is a big dimmensional difference but not when you compare it to a Modern Fox .15     Their outer dimmensions and mouting lugs are pretty healthy.

I know what is out there from major mfgs but perhaps there is something that I should be looking at for a short kit from someone who has remastered an old and cool bird.

Again thanks for all this advice. Its good stuff and you guys are getting me up to speed quickly!

Mark

[Richard Grogan]

Mark, I would imagine it would be a nice fit in a RSM Ringmaster, or one of Dee and Pat Johnston's Gold Medal S1 Ringmaster kits. I always thought that it was too much power for the Jr. Ringmaster, so I used a Fox .15. Mileage may vary... What Ty said about the careful feeding of these little beast is right on.They really need the extra lube.

[Robert McHam]

I would say go with a Sig Akromaster

Robert

[Bill Heher]

A Sig Akromaster with the wings stretched by using the full length of the spars / LE / TE, and add a couple inches to the back of the fuselage to help balance it and give the elevators a bit more leverage.

Good , simple , honest airplane that will fly great on 52' lines, the extra wing area will help at your altitude and is basically free, you have to find a couple scraps of balsa to make 2 more ribs when you extend the wing.

[James C. Johnson]

The Jr Ringmaster would work, my brother had an Enya 19 on his and that thing had the glide ratio of a rock when the engine quit..  the Dumas/Veco Tom Tom and Tomahawk .. I flew my Jr Flite Steak with a Fox 15x and loved it.. Almost all the kits that say .19-35 will work once you fly with shorter lines.. the Goldberg Buster, Shoestring and Cosmic Wind lend themselves to a .19 sized engine.. I have a full bodied early version Tom Tom built from plans and the .19 actually looks great in this plane as it sits up right.. I have also seen the 42" Ringmaster fly well with a 19.. The Tomahawk that I flew was with a Veco 19... and boy did it fly.. it was one of my favorite combination when I was in HS.. My first "big" new engine was a RH 19... it lasted exactly one flight and when the plane landed I had a Brown Head McCoy... my Christmas engine was toast... another plane..The Circus King. it is only 38" w/s and there are a bunch of other planes from the 1950s that would be a great choice... the A-Bomb comes to mind first.. and the Feno.

Jim

[john e. holliday]

If you are like me the Original Tomahawk was a great looking plane.  It is not that big and built straight and light would be a good match for the McCoy .19.  Make sure it is the original Tomahawk and not the new one even tho it would be a good match also.  I have one of each and both in boxes that show the original. 

How many remember the old Orbit Ace  which was supposedly and early combat design.  It was hugh flying wing my brother powered with the McCoy .19 and it flew great on 52 foot lines as that was all he had at the time.  Anyway I think the little McCoy was a very underrated engine.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

[Bill Barber]

     I had a Sig  Akromaster with a McCoy 19 and it was one of my favorite planes . Learned to fly lazy eights and upside down with that engine and plane combo .   You got good advice  about what fuel to use .
             
                   Bill

[Robert McHam]

I would say that the Sig Akromaster does dot get the attention it deserves sometimes. Today it does!


Sig's price right now for the Akromaster is just $24.99 which to me is a real bargain.
You would think I worked for them!
no, just a satisfied customer.

Robert

[George]

...I looked at that All American Sr as well...

Mark

Mark, you want to look at the All American, not the All American Sr. The All American I believe has a 36" wingspan which fits your requirements. The Sr. is larger.

Don't be afraid of the .19-.35 planes. Remember that you will probably be flying on .012x52' lines instead of 60' lines, although you probably could use 60' for some.

I would second the Akromaster as well. Especially if you "stretch" the wings by not trimming the LE and TE and making necessary mods to make it work.

Here's an old pic of my two Akromasters, the top one has the stretched wings...the rest is from the box.

George

[GGeezer]

I am flying and learning the beginner pattern with a 1954 design by Roy Clough Jr. called the "Stunt Goat". A simple and fast plane to build using only 4 sheets of 1/8" x 3 x 36" balsa. This 34" WS model flies quit well and the recently Ebayed McCoy .19 RH really pulls it along. Back in '57, this combination was my first stunter for my first "big engine".

I was having a little trouble with the engine run using a plastic clunk tank until I built a good metal uniflow tank. The engine now runs like my OS LAs, perfect runs throughout the flight. Most of the time, I can get one flip starts both hot and cold.
I am using Cox Power fuel (15% nitro) with 5% Castor added. 9 x5 prop and tongue muffler.
I'm really impressed with this old engine.

[Robert McHam]

I am flying and learning the beginner pattern with a 1954 design by Roy Clough Jr. called the "Stunt Goat". A simple and fast plane to build using only 4 sheets of 1/8" x 3 x 36" balsa. This 34" WS model flies quit well and the recently Ebayed McCoy .19 RH really pulls it along. Back in '57, this combination was my first stunter for my first "big engine".

I was having a little trouble with the engine run using a plastic clunk tank until I built a good metal uniflow tank. The engine now runs like my OS LAs, perfect runs throughout the flight. Most of the time, I can get one flip starts both hot and cold.
I am using Cox Power fuel (15% nitro) with 5% Castor added. 9 x5 prop and tongue muffler.
I'm really impressed with this old engine.

Really nice to see a Roy Clough Jr. design from time to time. Not to try to bring the thread off topic but he could really thhink out of the box for sure. The "Stunt Goat" was one of his more down to earth designs.
The thing about his designs were that they generally were strange by most standards.
Yours is really nice. What is it covered with?

Robert

[Mike Keville]

38" span Super Clown and Mac .19 was a nice combo for me.  Did the full OTS pattern with ease.  (Photo is 15 years old ... taken in Kuwait City.)

[Jim Kraft]

I would think the Vampire would be a good one also for the McCoy 19 R/H. I have a friend that use to fly a Jr. Ringmaster with one, and he really liked that combo also.

[Mark Misegadis]

Thanks Everyone,

That price on the Akromaster has convinced me. I have my local RC shop ordering this plane up for me so I can support them. I will probably post another thread to better understand the mods that are suggested and request that help.

Stunt Goat - Not aware of this plane or where to purchase.
Super Clown - Brodak I am assuming.
Jr Ringmaster - I have one that is  built up and its small.. I will most likely stick with a Fox 15 for this one. I would like to know where to buy the Ringmaster in the next size up!
Vampire - Not aware of this plane or where to purchase.

Tomahawk - I am going to have to own one of these at some point. Probably with a vintage .25-.29 engine on it.

Honestly.. I am really not interested in any of the new engines.  I really like the old birds and want to stick with vintage engines. Along with that would be a vintage tank. They seem to be available still although that Tomahawk would look good with a fabed polished brass unit hanging on the side.

So anyway.. thats the direction for now thanks to all of you but I would like to ask that you continue this thread and add resources for planes or plans as well. There will be more .19s in my future and better to have them on a nice plane that just stored.

Mark

[john e. holliday]

Go to the Brodak Mfg  site and you will see the Tomahawk and Vampire I beleive.  DOC Holliday

[kenneth cook]

      I was always told that the Mccoy engines could literally wear out in one flight but I never believed it. I was currently running the .35-.29 in both shiny cases and lightning bolt versions. I had 4 .19's in a bag and one being new. I opted for the new one and bolted it on my Akromaster. I gave it a few rich runs on the ground using Powermaster 10-29%. I was off to the field then. I set the needle rich and off it went. Once it landed the engine had absolutely no compression. I couldn't believe it. I then pulled yet another one out and couldn't get that one to start without adding oil to the piston sleeve. I currently have one thats a real dream to run. I guess this is where the quality control issues were all over the place. As stated above, the right fuel is very important although this doesn't always cure the fact that some of those pistons will just wear out. Ken

[Steve Scott]

Don't laugh, but my first "real" stunter was a Jr Nobler kit with a McCoy 19 redhead. Actually did a few rough maneuvers, and the Jr Nobler flew MUCH better than any profile I had.  Please listen to Ty about proper fuel for the McCoys...but that's another story.

Ditto.  My JN was first equipped with a McCoy 19 redhead then I switched to an Enya 19 (too heavy).  Best motor was the old Fox 19 with cast-in venturi and 3 bolt backplate.

[John Miller]

Consider, if you can find a kit, or are willing to scratch build, the Veco Warrior. The early version is OT legal, where the later one is Classic eligible.

Basically, in appearance, a smaller Chief.

[Mark Misegadis]

John,

Where do I find info on the Chief or Warrier? Sorry.. some of this gets over my head quick.

Mark

[John Miller]

Ty's correct with his recommendation re, Richards Kits. I seem to remember someone using a kit to make a full sized drawing, but I can't recall who did it. Perhaps some one on the forum will remember.

[dennis lipsett]

Most of the kits with a 38/42 inch W/S can use the Mccoy 19, I'm doing a Consolidated Jubilee and have it set up for an OS max 20 which I know is really too much motor for this model. I have a few McCoy 19's and it fits in the cutout. Ah well I was building it to be young again.Might as well complete the illusion.
dennis

[Scott Hartford]

The Veco papoose would be good too. I have a nice Richards kit of one.

[George]

I think I built a Jubilee back in the late fifties. Is that the one with the screwed-on wings? If so, I modified it by making conventional joined wings and cut the fuselage to fit it. If I remember correctly, they had a rep for shedding wings.

I never flew the plane...a friend borrowed it and lost it in a Combat match.  

George

[dennis lipsett]

I think I built a Jubilee back in the late fifties. Is that the one with the screwed-on wings? If so, I modified it by making conventional joined wings and cut the fuselage to fit it. If I remember correctly, they had a rep for shedding wings.

I never flew the plane...a friend borrowed it and lost it in a Combat match.  

George

Yes that is the plane. I got it earlier then the late 50's I seem to remember being about 9 which would be 1954. I'm positive that it was the first kit that I got and paid for with my own cash.

The kit is just as horrible as I remember and yes the wings were take apart. 2 dowels and a few non supported screws and wires, and I like everyone else I suppose, shed the wings on the 2nd or 3rd flight
mine still had the little bottle of 10 minute rubber cement that was included to build the kit, and don't forget the aluminum foil for the wing roots.
Aluminum foil came out to the public about 49 to 51 as I was told so this was probably a marketing ploy for the kiut. I know of no one that ever successfully rolled the stuff on to any model wrinkle free.
The model does not have a leading edge or trailing edge, simply the sheeting being but glued to form the respective edges. It's short coupled and kind of homely. I also did modify this one to a one piece wing and a few other improvememnts. after all I want to improve on my childhood memories of this model.
dennis

[George]

Yes that is the plane. I got it earlier then the late 50's I seem to remember being about 9 which would be 1954. I'm positive that it was the first kit that I got and paid for with my own cash.

I think mine was 1956 or 1957. Power was a Super Tigre G21 .35 (removable front end).

...mine still had the little bottle of 10 minute rubber cement that was included to build the kit, and don't forget the aluminum foil for the wing roots.
Aluminum foil came out to the public about 49 to 51 as I was told so this was probably a marketing ploy for the kiut. I know of no one that ever successfully rolled the stuff on to any model wrinkle free.

I think they called it something like "Esmetal" for marketing. I left it off.

The model does not have a leading edge or trailing edge, simply the sheeting being but glued to form the respective edges. It's short coupled and kind of homely. I also did modify this one to a one piece wing and a few other improvememnts. after all I want to improve on my childhood memories of this model.
dennis

I don't remember construction details...too long ago. Good luck with it.

George

[Mark Misegadis]

Thanks for all the interest in this thread and the advice.  Can I ask that folks post photos of these planes that they are suggesting as well as an overall idea on size. Like 34" WS etc?

I have been hunting around the Web for folks that make a short kit or plans etc and am not sure that I have found the correct ones that folks are referring to.

Currently I have an Ackromaster on the way but I have 3 McCoy 19's so a nice Vintage styled plane would be something that I would find interesting.

Mark

[John Miller]

Here's a "Classic Legal" design that will use 2 of those McCoy .19's

[Mark Misegadis]

YOWZA,

Told my Wife I should trade her in for 2 20's.... Perhaps I should change that to 2 Redheads.. at 19! 

Mark

[Mark Misegadis]

Hi All,

Orv sent me plans of the Stunt Goat. Nice plane with a very interesting method of construction. This one will have to go on the list. 

Another that he and I have discussed is the Guillows Basic trainer for .15-.19 engines. I have sourced some plans and photos of that one and will be building one of these. I will probably do this prior to building and running of the Sig Ackromaster that I have purchased.  My neighbor/flying buddy will also be building one for a Tornado .19 that he has. Should be fun to have a pair of these zipping around. I will be looking for suggestions later on lines, length and a handle. (I do have a uReely.. perhaps I need to get it functioning with some new cable)

Mark

[Steve Helmick]

Mark...Do yourself a HUGE favor and hang the U-Reely on the wall and leave it there, collecting cobwebs. It might be entertaining for nostalgia, but they're awful handles!

Honestly, my return started with Tom Morris handles, and I've recently changed to "Ted Handles"... OH MY!Wunderbar!!! And they're made right there in Colorado...Carl Shoup "shoupentstatorrepair (at) Prodigy (dot)net" 

You've gotten some great suggestions for designs for the redhead .19!  The Tomahawk would be great with a .19, as it doesn't have a whole lot of balsa in it, so it can be made out of average balsa and still be light. The Warrior has a warm spot in my heart, because I had one around '71...good flying plane for a .19. The Akro should be good, especially with the wing and tail stretches.


A GOOD 9-4 propeller should work well at normal altitudes, but maybe will need more pitch at yours. Try the Thunder Tiger Cyclone 9 x 5.5...they are not as much load as 5.5 would indicate. I thought there was a 9 x 4.5, too. Hmmm. It also seems to me that RSM might have a 9" prop...that would be worth an email, for sure.  APC should have some good sizes...the 9.5 x 4.5 might be ideal, tho a bit hard to find. LOTS of performance in the prop selection.  Steve   

[Chris McMillin]

I used 9 inchers on mine with the Warrior until one day I broke it and used an 8x5. What a difference. It just was so much better.
This was in the 60's but I still remember it as one of those big learning experiences. Kind of like the one when I went to 52 feet of .015's instead of 60's.
Chris...

[Bill Little]

Hi Mark,

I'm late to the party, but I have had a lot of experience with the McCoy .19, presently have one in a Fierce Arrow 400.  I would not recommend that build for you right now, though!   The guys have listed many nice designs that will fly great with the .19.  Starting out, I think any of them would suit you well.  One that has been over looked is the Flite Streak Trainer from Brodak's.  And all wood (IIRC) plane with a great airfoil.  I am building a Guillows .19 size trainer (will use a RH .19!) for my grandson (he's 4), so that one is good, too.

My first *BIG* plane was a Goldberg Shoestring with a McCoy RH 19.  I learned all the standard maneuvers with that combo.  I have also used the RH 19 in a Jr. Ringmaster, a Tomahawk and a Super Clown.  The Tomahawk and Super Clown are available from Brodak's, and are good kits.  Go light and don't put a *20 point* (heavy) finish on them, and they will do fine with the .19.  A McCoy RH 19 will fly up to a 42" WS airplane if it is not too heavy, and even then it will fly, just not a great *stunt* combination.

I cannot stress enough the advice Ty (and others backed up) about correct fuel.  Those old McCoys had soft pistons and would wear out VERY quickly if not enough castor was used or if they were over leaned out for any length of time.  They just wore out and lost compression.  25% castor (29% to be safe) is imperative!  10% nitro works nice in the .19, and I would suggest it for your location.  Wouldn't feel good going over 20%.  Props were good in the 9-5 range, but like Chris said, an 8-5 to 8-6 works pretty good, too.  it would depend on your engine, the plane it's in, and what you want to do.

Just please set the needle on the rich side (barely breaking from a 4 to a 2 cycle, heavier on the 4 cycle), and use PLENTY of castor oil in the fuel!  That should help extend the life of that old McCoy a bunch.  I really love those engines, from the .19 through the .40!

Mongo

[Mark Misegadis]

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the information! This deal on the Fuel is such a big thing that will totall take that headache out of the equation. I plan to head that information heavily.

Bill if you get a chance please post photos of that Guillows trainer you are building.

Mark

[Dalton Hammett]

Hi Mark

    Just thought I'd jump in here too,  my first engine was a pre-redhead McCoy .19 on a Veco Papoose in the late .50s.   I don't know how long they will last but mine is still running.   I think the old Veco kits like the Papoose, Warrior or Brave would be great and Larry Richards makes excellent kits.  Also, the Super Clown is an easy build and very light and should be a good match.  You really have a lot of choices.
     I'd like to know more about that Stunt Goat, are plans available somewhere for that one ?

Dalton H.

[W.D. Roland]

Drug out an old Veco Tom Tom kit just now
The only engine size listed is  .19!

The Tom Tom wing on Flite Steak fuse made a better slow combat than the stock wing--35+ years ago.


David
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