Problems starting a new Brodak .049

[Frederick Fielder]

Presently I'm having problems starting my Brodak .049 and its to the point I've almost worn out my flipper and I need help. The plug is OK and I'm using 1/2 A fuel with 25% nitro and I've followed the instructions for starting. Am I missing something? Has anyone else had this problem?
Frederick

[Jay]

I have one of these never ran, new in the box.  Not sure if you have the right fuel, but I read that you're supposed to use 10% Nitro with 20% oil 50/50 mix.

Hope you get it figured out soon.

Jay

[Richard Grogan]

Presently I'm having problems starting my Brodak .049 and its to the point I've almost worn out my flipper and I need help. The plug is OK and I'm using 1/2 A fuel with 25% nitro and I've followed the instructions for starting. Am I missing something? Has anyone else had this problem?
Frederick

Does it draw fuel when you choke the venturi? Does it kick when you choke it? Does it run for a second and dies? More info please.....

[Russell Shaffer]

If it fires but doesn't run, try a prop that is WAY too big.  You just need to get the thing to fire and run for a few seconds.  Once it does this, you can go to a properly sized prop and continue.  I think it is the flywheel effect, at least that is my name for it.  I use a 12 inch nylon to do the first start on 35's.  Way too big and heavy for the engine.  For an 049 maybe a 7-3 or 8-4.  It just needs to run under it's own power for a very short time. Good luck.

[Frederick Fielder]

It draws fuel but no kick back. Electric starter to make it run and 9500 rpm at best no matter what adjustment I make to the needle valve. Never had this problem with my Atwood. Should I solve my problem with a Cox .049? My wife wants to fly her plane and soon!
Frederick

[ebonbetta]

So your not getting any kickback at all ? I suggest not using a starter .
I would first suggest removing the plug and make sure it's working.
If it's working then put it back in the engine.
Place your finger and turn the prop by hand three or four times,Then attach your leads to the glow plug. Turn the prop a few times making sure to hold the prop and you should feel a kick. If you do not then open the needle valve 1/4-1/2 turn and repeat from the begining, prime with the leads off and then attach and try to feel a kick. You can then try the starter once your getting a kick.

[minnesotamodeler]

I haven't yet tried to run my new Brodak, but it is extremely stiff, as bad as--maybe worse than--a new Norvel.  It's so tight I thought it was locked up at first.  I've been doing the Norvel thing, just turning it over by hand about a kazillion times to loosen it up a little. With Norvels the first run can be a booger; after that, starting is progressively easier.

--Ray

[Bob Zambelli]

Frederick - first off, which .049 do you have? Mark I or Mark II?

In any case, use 10% max nitro for break in, per the instructions. More will make it almost impossible to start.

DO NOT, under any circumstances, use an electric starter. 
This is a plain bearing engine and you will grind away the front of the case and then drive the crank pin into the backplate, essentially ruining the engine.   

Don't hesitate to use a heavier prop. A 6-3 or 6-4 nylon will provided some extra inertia needed for initial run-in.

If you cannot get the engine to run, send it to me. If I get it to run, I will break it in and return it to you without charge. 

If it is, in fact, defective from the factory, you will, in all likelihood, get a new engine. 

For further info, contact me at  <rzambelli@moog.com>

Bob Z.

[Frederick Fielder]

Thanks to all that responded to my posting. Your advice is will be most helpful.
Thanks again.
Frederick

[john e. holliday]

As Bob says use a 6-3 or 6-4 prop.  Mine started on the 4th flip.  I never flipped mine until it was ready to start.  The engine should be tight, but, will loosen up with each run.  I have 6 runs on mine and ready to put in an airplane.  Haven't tried the .061 yet.  By the way I was using SIG 10% fuel.  DOC Holliday

[Clancy Arnold]

I have a technique that I always use on a new, or new to me, engine.  I blow through the (new clean) fuel line and set the needle to where I can hear the air just start blowing into the engine.  This is an old idea but it works.  I have used it on .020 to .60's.  On the smaller engines you have to listen closer.

I have never found an engine that I could not start if mechanically sound. 

Clancy

[bill marvel]

Fred
Listen to Bob Z.  I had a difficult time getting mine to start the first time.  Once it did, the next time was easier.  It starts very easy now.  It is a tightly built engine.

One thing I noticed was the needle valve setting initially was incredibly critical.  After it was broken it, that doesn't seem to be an issue.

Do not use a starter!  You'll just make yourself a pretty fishing weight!!!

regards,
bill marvel

[Frederick Fielder]

My preliminary findings are some of the things that I am plagued with, one is ignorantitis and also the dreaded moreisbetter syndrome which is probably the cause of the failure of my engine to ignite properly. In other words I was using the wrong fuel. Anyway the engine is on its way to the doctor for a proper check up and I am ordering the proper fuel for the .049. In time with patience and guidance I will get it mostly right.
Frederick

[Robert McHam]

One thing not yet mentioned is the fire. Make sure you have enough umph getting to the glowplug.

When an engine does not make a pop it is missing one of three things.
1. Air
2. Fuel
3. Fire
 
With an open hole in front of the spraybar, air is almost never a culprit, so forget abiut that one.

If you have established that fuel IS being drawn through the line then this is not a problem. If not then you have a starting point for your problem.

Finally Fire, or in our case a brightly glowing coil shaped wire in our glow plug.
Remember if you have air and fuel, then the only thing left is fire. With two exceptions:
A locked up engine that won't turn over, or virtually no compression. With a new motor, neither of these two should be a problem.
If that engine ain't a popping' and you know without a doubt that it is getting is fuel and air, and the battery is doing its thing then there are basically two conditions to look for:
1.Flooding
2.Weak glow

A flooded condition is easy to spot. Remove the glowplug and connect to battery. If it does not glow right away it may have fuel in around the coil keeping it too cool to fire. Fix it.

Even in bright sunshine you should be able to shade the glowplug with your hand enough to tell if your glowplug is getting juice. Problem is, how much is not enough? Well, first off the engine doesn't start is one. Second when you look at the coil it should be bright orange, or even orangish yellow, not orangish red. If it seems more red than orange your battery is weak.
 If you are using a nicad, try using a battery with more oomph like an alkaline 1.5v pack or a wet cell or gel cell.

This could end your problem quick, fast and in a hurry!

Robert

[RC Storick]

One thing not yet mentioned is the fire. Make sure you have enough umph getting to the glowplug.

When an engine does not make a pop it is missing one of three things.
1. Air
2. Fuel
3. Fire

You only forgot one thing. The engine needs adequate compression as well.

[Robert McHam]

Actually, I did mention comperession if you will reread my post. I simply did not include that in that list becase since we are dealing with a new motor it should not be an issue , but yes compression will certanly not let it "pop"!

One thing I did fail to mention is that the battery voltage is not critical when I mentioned the 1.5v battery. The thing that the coils need are more  amperage to make them glow hotter.   A weak 1.5v cell will have the same problem as a weak 1.2v cell in delivering the needed amperage to get things where they need to be.

Robert

[Bob Zambelli]

Frederick - I'm happy to report that your Brodak .049 is a PERFECT runner.   

I used 10/22 (50/50) fuel and it started with just a few flips.   

After about 20 minutes of running, it was turning a 6-4 nylon prop at over 12,000 RPM - this will improve with time.

There was a bit too much play in the needle valve so I installed a new one.
It's very close to a perfect setting so you may have to dial it in a few clicks either way.

Here's what I suggest: Fly it with the 10% fuel and experiemnt with different props.
If you feel you need more power, try 15% nitro.

DO NOT USE LESS THAN 22% oil, and always 50/50 castor/synthetic. 

                  Your engine will be mailed out tomorrow.
                                         Bob Z.

[Frederick Fielder]

Bob,
Thanks a bunch for the good news. I've ordered fuel from Brodak so I should be in good shape. Thanks again.
Frederick