PAMPA re-up

[Mike Keville]

Great! Does he have one email???
Marcus

==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.

[Randy Powell]

Interestingly, I just renewed my AMA membership. Online. Took about 2 minutes since they already had all my basic information. I also just renewed my membership in another club I belong to. Also took just a minute - online. Payment of both was with a credit card and I got a receipt instantly.

I do believe that PAMPA would see some increase in membership if there were an online option to join/renew. At the least, they would have me. I will probably get around to getting a money order (about .75), filling out the application (10 to 15 minutes), addressing an envelope (another couple of minutes), buying a stamp (20 minutes and .60) and then mail the application. Then, 2-4 weeks later I will (maybe) get acknowledgement of receipt of my money and application. Then, hopefully, I will be eligible to download Stunt News in January. Lots of places in that progression for breakdown.

[Mike Keville]

What're you going to do when your power goes out, or your computer crashes? 

Too much reliance these days on electronics.  Yes, I know: spoken like an Old Geezer.

(Guilty as charged.)
 

[MarcusCordeiro]

==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.

Thank you Mike

Will try to reach him on Monday morning.


Marcus

[MarcusCordeiro]

==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.

Mike

Thanks but neither worked....
Maybe I should get my old typewriter out of the attic, get a couple of stamps and an envelope...

Marcus

[Mike Keville]

Marcus:

Try mike(at)geartekinc(dot)com - substitute the 'k' in geartek for the 'c' previously shown.

[Bob Kruger]

Steve...it IS that hard for some.....especially in a day and age when on-line renewal/donation is so easy.......I believe that membership could/would increase if it was easier to join...although I am not sure that increasing PAMPA membership is a goal.
It might work if some upstanding member with a Pay Pal account would deal with renewals and then write a check or use a credit card to PAMPA?

Rich;

Its not that easy and this post it not aimed at you.  You have given selflessly over the years in organizing the various PAMPA classes for the NATS, not to mention handling advertising for PAMPA.  I am using your post to illustrate the complexity of setting up the various option that to many seems is a simple transaction.

All;

A couple of givens:

1.  The majority of on line users expect to have instant results.

2.  In order to offer numerous different membership options, we have basic membership (internet only), US w/printed SN (bulk mailing) US w/printed SN (first class mail) , US w/CD SN, International w/CD, International w/printed SN, Canada and Mexico first class printed SN, and family member.  The programming for all of this is exponentially more difficult to get it to work right.  We have created very flexible membership options, but that creation is a programming nightmare.

I have tried three different times to migrate to a platform that would allow that to happen with accuracy, speed, and robustness, and failed all three times with a great amount of time invested.  I fully admit to not being a programmer, but I hate failure (hence I tried three times).  Professionals that I did contact wanted more money than we had available to spend to do have the site accomplish the tasks we believe necessary.

Now, if you or anyone else reading this thinks that they can lend a hand, I will put you in touch with the right person.  If someone has deep pockets and wants to contribute the funds required to have professional programmers do things better, by all means, do it.  Otherwise we will need to continue to scan and email, fax, or do whatever is necessary to maintain membership to keep the organization and SN published.

Having run the PAMPA website for six years now and kept it limping along as the software becomes more and more dated, I have found that there are a lot more complainers than their are contributors.  If you or anyone else think its inconvenient for you to take ten minutes to write a check and put it in an envelope or scan and email the membership form to reap the benefit of  the effort that goes into Stunt News and maintaining the site, I am growing short of sympathy.  I spend a dozen hours each week keeping the site going and handling user issues.  It is not the best solution, but it is what we have on hand.

Note - this all pales in comparison to the work required for Secretary/Treasurer and Membership Chairman.

And if there are those who wish me to reimburse PAMPA for my compensation, send me a SASE and I will remit the $0.00 total I have been paid.  Also list your skills in website development and maintenance so that you can continue the race once the baton is passed.

So here is the bottom line.  A new site is in development.  It should do on line PAMPA registration in all its permutations, products, and plans service.  As to when it will be ready is still undetermined, but we all know that sooner is better than later.  And, if anyone out there is a website developer and wants to help, email me and I will forward it on to the right person.

Otherwise, please bear with us until this Herculean task is complete and I do battle handover to a new webmaster.


V/r

Bob Kruger

[Randy Powell]

Bob,

Hey, it is what it is. I do wish we had an online option for renewal. But we don't. Oh well. When I get the chance, I will round up what is needed to rejoin. Or I won't. That's on me. I would certainly like a simpler option, but if not, not.

The world has become a place of instant gratification, I suppose. But that's the truth.

[Bob Kruger]

Bob,

Hey, it is what it is. I do wish we had an online option for renewal. But we don't. Oh well. When I get the chance, I will round up what is needed to rejoin. Or I won't. That's on me. I would certainly like a simpler option, but if not, not.

The world has become a place of instant gratification, I suppose. But that's the truth.

Randy;

We are working on that solution, but in a world of instant gratification, people demand absolute precision with the handling of their funds.   It HAS to be right.  Makes website developers and maintainers lose sleep at night.

The other option is to fill in your credit card info, mail it in (or scan/fax it).  It's not that complicated.

And, if you know of someone with the requisite skills to assist in the process, have them contact me.

Bob

[jose modesto]

There should be two option online mag. Cut cost of printing,entire mag in color. Second is a CD for those that insist on it.
The printed mag is a thing of the past.
Registration would be simpler and maybe even on line.
Jose Modesto

[Bob Kruger]

There should be two option online mag. Cut cost of printing,entire mag in color. Second is a CD for those that insist on it.
The printed mag is a thing of the past.
Registration would be simpler and maybe even on line.
Jose Modesto

Anything more than one simple option makes things more complicated.  2 is as complicated as 20.

Not to mention that most of the US users want a hard copy.

Bob

[MarcusCordeiro]

Bob

I really think you guys do a great job. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been trying to register for a couple of months now.
But no biggie.
I only wanted one email to send my info to, as Jim told me to do....
Now, I don't want to bother anybody, neither want to criticize your work.
And I'm sorry if it seemed so.

So, as I never say die, if there's anybody out there who I could send a paypal to, and then could forward the Money to PAMPA, I'd be very thankful.
I will cover any fee that applies.

I would like to quote John Brodak here:
"I would like to know what the overlap of subscribers is for StuntNews and CLW......... There may have to be changes made in the future for both of these publications to survive."

Marcus

[55chevr]

You can't fire the free help. 

Joe

[Shawn Lenci]

This thread has me laughing...actually crying is more like it.  How hard is it to fill out a renewal application, write a check, put them both in a self addressed envelope, put a stamp on the envelope, and put it in the mailbox?   It is the old school way of paying a bill or paying for an item.  Most guys here are old school modelers who scratch build airplanes, cover them with silkspan and dope, and power them with old technology nitro engines.  You would think renewing by "snail mail" would be their preferred method of renewing their PAMPA memberships for these are do it yourself people.  Just think of it as the "BOM" rule.....Build your Own Membership application.  You fill the form out with an ink pen, write a check and mail it in.  It seems that some people here want the ARF method where most the work is done by the computer.

Joining PAMPA should be a little bit of an effort.  Most things in life worth doing take a little work.  It is not like you have to rejoin every month or so, just once a year.   Takes about 5 minutes.  Do what I did, have your wife fill out the membership and write the check and mail it off for you.  I am sure she would love to know you spend $60 for your membership and 6 magazines each year around Christmas time

One other thought.  Paypal or using a credit card to pay for your membership is not FREE!  PAMPA would have to eat the cost (approx 3% of the transaction amount) just to make it easier for you to renew.  Is this really a prudent way to spend PAMPA's financial resources?  On last thought; paying by the USPS keeps them in business longer.  Paying bills online is killing them and no matter what you want to believe we still need the postal system.

Don't be lazy, write the check and send in the application.  Make sure your friends do it as well.  PAMPA membership is well worth the cost and effort to join!

Flame me if you want, I can take it.  
Shawn Lenci
Escalon, CA

[Mike Keville]

Right on, Shawn!

As stated earlier in this thread, my check was mailed on Oct. 26....confirmation rec'd via email on Oct. 30 - all for the cost of a postage stamp.

There's way too much reliance these days on electronic crap.

Write a check....affix a stamp....send it off.

Bingo!  Done!!!

[Bob Kruger]

Bob

I really think you guys do a great job. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been trying to register for a couple of months now.
But no biggie.
I only wanted one email to send my info to, as Jim told me to do....
Now, I don't want to bother anybody, neither want to criticize your work.
And I'm sorry if it seemed so.

So, as I never say die, if there's anybody out there who I could send a paypal to, and then could forward the Money to PAMPA, I'd be very thankful.
I will cover any fee that applies.

I would like to quote John Brodak here:
"I would like to know what the overlap of subscribers is for StuntNews and CLW......... There may have to be changes made in the future for both of these publications to survive."

Marcus

Marcus;

Email me directly.  I will give you my paypal info and send it in for you.

V/r

Bob Kruger

[MarcusCordeiro]

Marcus;

Email me directly.  I will give you my paypal info and send it in for you.

V/r

Bob Kruger

Done!

Thank you Bob

Marcus

[Bob Kruger]

One other thought.  Paypal or using a credit card to pay for your membership is not FREE!  PAMPA would have to eat the cost (approx 3% of the transaction amount) just to make it easier for you to renew.  Is this really a prudent way to spend PAMPA's financial resources?  On last thought; paying by the USPS keeps them in business longer.  Paying bills online is killing them and no matter what you want to believe we still need the postal system.

Don't be lazy, write the check and send in the application.  Make sure your friends do it as well.  PAMPA membership is well worth the cost and effort to join!

Flame me if you want, I can take it.  
Shawn Lenci
Escalon, CA

No one needs to flame anyone.  The only reason I jumped in here was to put aside the notion that there is a simple online solution for PAMPA membership and renewal that also includes quick access to the members only section of the website, accurate routing of funds, and security of information.  There isn't.  We are working on it.  We appreciate everyone's patience. 

I would rather have a slower but accurate manual system than an automated system with the reliability of the national Obamacare website.

V/r

Bob

[RC Storick]

What I don't understand is a paypal button subscription is so easy to set up. Takes about 2 Minutes tops. Whoever is responsible for the check book needs to do it or give the info to the webmaster.

[Bob Kruger]

What I don't understand is a paypal button subscription is so easy to set up. Takes about 2 Minutes tops. Whoever is responsible for the check book needs to do it or give the info to the webmaster.

Sure do wish you would read the rest of the postings.

The problem is not a single Paypal button.  The problem is the granting of instant access and insuring that the right variety and type of membership options.  That is exponentially more complicated than hitting a single button for Paypal and and sending a single payment to support Stunthanger.  If you think you can do it, e.g. set it up so that a new user pays, gets access, and a database is updated without human interaction (the biggest issue for all of us involved with the site) as to the membership options, checks to make sure that non-US accounts are charged appropriately, I will put you in touch with the right people.

But this is the fourth time you and I have had this exchange.

Bob

[Dave_Trible]

Sent mine yesterday by tortoise express.

Dave

[Balsa Butcher]

I found the option to fill out the renewal form on line and print it for mailing very handy. Good job.

[RC Storick]

Sure do wish you would read the rest of the postings.

The problem is not a single Paypal button.  The problem is the granting of instant access and insuring that the right variety and type of membership options.  That is exponentially more complicated than hitting a single button for Paypal and and sending a single payment to support Stunthanger.  If you think you can do it, e.g. set it up so that a new user pays, gets access, and a database is updated without human interaction (the biggest issue for all of us involved with the site) as to the membership options, checks to make sure that non-US accounts are charged appropriately, I will put you in touch with the right people.

But this is the fourth time you and I have had this exchange.

Bob

This page may help. Or maybe not https://developer.paypal.com/webapps/developer/docs/classic/ipn/integration-guide/IPNandPDTVariables/#id091EB0901HT

[Bob Kruger]

This page may help. Or maybe not https://developer.paypal.com/webapps/developer/docs/classic/ipn/integration-guide/IPNandPDTVariables/#id091EB0901HT

Thanks for the link.

Regrettably, it does not answer the programming requirements and custom database work that needs to be integrated for the system to work as outlined above.

We believe that the new site and software will answer the requirements and allow us to do what we need to do to.  It just has to work right. 

We will get there.

Bob

[Randy Cuberly]

Well...for all those that think on line operations of purchase are simple I'll remind you that the US Government just spent approximately 500 million dollars trying it and really screwed the pooch!!! 

Randy cuberly

[Dennis Moritz]

Pay Pal, Credit Cards, cost low volume retailers a big chunk of revenue. Many hidden costs. The Post Office sells money orders for a reasonable fee, same with 7-11. Can even buy already stamped envelopes at the PO. Weird to have this thread go on and on.

[Mike Keville]

US Postal Service is seriously "in the red" thanks primarily to electronic bill paying.  I still use checks, money orders, stamps and the US Mail....and have been very satisfied with the results.

Agree that this debate has about run its course.

[Steve Scott]

In case anyone missed it above (Reply #5), the current contact for PAMPA membership is:

Michael Strand
24 Enterprise Rd., Suite C
Delafield, WI 53018
262-352-0645

I just 'renewed' via check after a 10 year hiatus.  Took about 30 days for the check to clear.  Don't know if I have access to the website or not even sure the website I used is the current one.  Aside from the check image, I've not received any confirmation.  Pretty sure I sent it to somewhere in Wisconsin, check wasn't endorsed.  What does a membership buy you in this 'modern era'?

[RC Storick]

This is all about to change. Next week I will be taking over the new site and it will be able to accept online payments.

[Bob Hunt]

My prayers have been answered! I put a piece in my last Stunt News editorial indicating that since no one has stepped forward to volunteer to administer the new PAMPA website, I would take a stab at it. I have absolutely no experience in doing that type of task, but was willing to give it a try. Well, after seeing what was required and realizing the learning curve involved, I was pretty overwhelmed.

Then I get this phone call from Robert Storick. He offered to take a look at what was required to run the site. Long story short, Robert has volunteered to be the new PAMPA webmaster! I think I'll buy him a steak dinner at the Nats...

As the Editor of Stunt News, I'll still be responsible for the content of the site, but Bob will insure that all necessary information gets posted properly. Here's how it will work: The PAMPA Executive Council will send me any information that they want uploaded to the website. I'll do a grammatical editing if required and then send a file to be uploaded to Robert. Bob will see to it that the information is displayed properly on the site. I'll also send Bob periodical updates about Stunt News and other stunt related information to be posted as bulletins on the main page of the site. Bob told me that this would take but minutes to post.

Our Membership Chairman, Mike Strand, will have access to the portion of the site that has new member information so that he can retrieve the membership payment information and insure that new, or re-upping members are enrolled correctly.

I simply cannot thank Bob Storick enough for taking on this responsibility; his life, like mine, is already more than full in respect to service to the CL Stunt community.

What this means to PAMPA is increased membership. It is  difficult for overseas brethren to send funds for membership; being able to join using a credit card makes PAMPA membership, and access to the online version of Stunt News, an easy task.

While on the subject of the online version of SN, I must say that many PAMPA members are missing out on seeing each issue of our 100 page, bi-monthly newsletter in color. If you are a member who has opted to receive a printed copy of Stunt News, you are also entitled to go to the website and download the issue in color. In fact, as a member you can go to the site and download all of the past issues of Stunt News! If you are not doing this, then you are missing out on a huge part of the value of a PAMPA membership.

Please join me in thanking Bob Storick for his willingness to extend himself to bring all PAMPA members a most valuable resource. Please also join me in thanking Eric Viglione for the amazing amount of work he has donated to PAMPA in constructing the new site. Truly it is only through the work of such volunteers (there's that word again...) that this hobby/sport will survive and even grow

Bob Hunt
Editor Stunt News       

[john e. holliday]

Can't thank both Bob's for what they are doing for the CL stunt community.   I need to finish up down loading the past discs of Stunt News.   Yes the printed copy can be useful when using the throne room, but I get in trouble for reading too much while in there.  I have read the Stunt News on line and also by loading my disc.  Thanks gentlemen.

[Ted Fancher]

Oh, my.

I've read 79 or so responses to this thread with at least half of them suggesting that either "PAMPA" or "we" ought to do this that or the other thing to make things easier for "me".

Hey, guys.  "PAMPA" does nothing.  "We" do nothing.  Everything that has and is being done to keep "our" organization alive and kicking for the last 40 year has and is being done by one individual or another.  A handful of human beings taking significant portions of their lives to make the lives of others richer.  That isn't rocket science. 

If any of those who find the labors of existing volunteers lacking would volunteer to do what they believe is so "simple" any "problems" could be solved overnight.  All it takes is a hand in the air and the simple statement: "let me help".

The 80th response before me came from Bubba Hunt who has done approximately 100 times more effort on behalf of stunt than the rest of us put together and his comments were yet another example of one man raising his hand.

Believe me, I know from close experience that nothing that made PAMPA valuable to stunt fliers around the world was the result of any volunteer getting paid big bucks.  It came from volunteers seeing needs and filling them to make other peoples' lives richer...not their own.

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

p.s.

Good on you, Doc and thank you, Sparky!

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

p.p.s.

Eric V.  I knew when I sat in on the last two EC meetings for Jim Hoffman that you were going to be a big asset to our organization.  Thanks for your hard work and talent on our behalf.

Ted

[Sean McEntee]

I wonder why there are no young members?

     Because there isn't an electronic option, to name one.

     I don't have time to write checks, lick stamps, and wait for the mailman.  I don't even have time to wait to get on my computer at home to pay bills. I barely find time to build models! I'm not lazy, I have 15 "kids" that I have to take care of, and it can be a 24/7 job at times.  Just about everybody has apps with which to do these things now. I have apps for cell phone bills, insurance, utilities, cable, banking, ect. that I use to pay bills from anywhere in the world (to include here). I also have apps for 3 separate credit monitoring bureaus that message me the moment anything on my credit report changes.  The internet isn't such a scary place if you have people working for you to protect you.   I realize that may not be an enticing switch for most folks, but the last time I ordered checks, I got 8 books and wrote 15 checks before they went bad.  As much as I move around, having something that isn't usable if my address changes is worthless to me.

    I'm not saying we need an iPhone/android membership app, we don't even need to revamp the website to support a paypal method.  Create a paypal account using the club's membership email. It's on the registration form already. Ad the 3-5 dollar fee to the membership if paying via PayPal. 3-5 bucks is worth it to me.  (Yes I have a paypal app). Application?  Include in the notes section of the transaction whether your information has changed or not.  This is too easy.  I'ds throw my hat in the ring and help out myself if I had the time to, though I predict in about 30 years or so I will have to find time if this thing is to keep going.

   I love you to death, Mikey, but no, a couple hundred envelopes will NOT make or break the Postal System.

    I pay my AMA membership online, as well as my National Free Flight Society and even my Flying Aces Club dues.

    Just sayin....

Edit:

Do what I did, have your wife fill out the membership and write the check and mail it off for you.

...Though Shawn may be on to something there