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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Randy Powell on November 06, 2013, 03:46:06 PM

Title: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Powell on November 06, 2013, 03:46:06 PM
Have we figured out a way to re-up for PAMPA that isn't a pain in the backside yet? Like, I don't know, just off the top of my head, pay for it online?
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: peabody on November 06, 2013, 03:47:44 PM
I used the "land line".....boxed up a check and let USPS figure it out.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Powell on November 06, 2013, 03:53:02 PM
Well, I don't really use checks anymore so if such is needed, I generally get a money order. Just never got around to it last year. I suppose if we are still in the dark ages, I will just have to get around to it this year.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: David Hoover on November 06, 2013, 04:14:40 PM
The simple way is to fill out the membership form including the credit card info, scan the filled out form, then email the scanned file as an attachment to the appropriate person.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: frank williams on November 06, 2013, 04:49:44 PM
I tried the "Visa Email" last year and got notin.
Have we considered PayPal as an option?
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 06, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
I'm one of those Luddites who still uses checks and the US Mail.  Sent Mike* a check on 26 Oct., and received an email acknowledgement on 30 Oct., saying that payment was received.  Easy, peezy....

*Michael Strand
24 Enterprise Rd, Ste C
Delafield, WI 53018
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: tom brightbill on November 06, 2013, 05:47:25 PM
If you have access to a fax machine, that system with a credit card number on the form works beautifully.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: wwwarbird on November 06, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
Have we figured out a way to re-up for PAMPA that isn't a pain in the backside yet? Like, I don't know, just off the top of my head, pay for it online?

 I'm with ya Randy, being able to pay PAMPA online would be great. Maybe they could just set up a Paypal account?

 A Paypal account is super easy to get set up, heck, even I figured it out.  ;D
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 06, 2013, 06:44:08 PM
What's the problem with sending a check or money order to the mailing address?

1) Helps keep the US Postal Service in business.
2) Helps avoid having your Pay Pal account hacked.

ANY electronic contact these days is subject to being hacked and your identity stolen.  Call me an Old Phart, but I don't trust this so-called Digital Age.

Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Hoss Cain on November 06, 2013, 07:21:50 PM
What's the problem with sending a check or money order to the mailing address?

1) Helps keep the US Postal Service in business.
2) Helps avoid having your Pay Pal account hacked.

ANY electronic contact these days is subject to being hacked and your identity stolen.  Call me an Old Phart, but I don't trust this so-called Digital Age.

Mr. Keville, I am with you.  I do same. Just recently, my main computer got totally raided. All my records are going to be removed by a friend and I will try again with a new and different computer.
I pay all my bills via check and snail mail. It  worked for many years and so far it is working still. IMO, had I been using the confuser, I would be in a real situation now. Like you I have already been recognized for my payment to
PAMPA.












 
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Paul Walker on November 06, 2013, 07:30:36 PM
Have we figured out a way to re-up for PAMPA that isn't a pain in the backside yet? Like, I don't know, just off the top of my head, pay for it online?
p

Randy,
The PAMPA Pres lives only a few miles down the road from you. You should give him a call and let him explain the "why's".

It was the intent when updating the PAMPA website to have that option. I don't know where that stands.   I sent a check in........
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: frank williams on November 06, 2013, 08:24:51 PM
Online banking and purchases do work.  Face it .... the world is changing, I seldom write a check for anything anymore.

PayPal might be pretty easy ..... PAMPA just needs to set up an account for member transfers.

I would even guess that PAMPA membership might increase if the option was available.

I know , I know , its a volunteer organization .... but it might in the long run be easier for the Treas. to process online subscriptions as opposed to transcribing paper documents and checks and money orders.   Maybe we could get some of the spare ACA website developers to help. ;)
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 06, 2013, 08:40:25 PM
As always, opinions will vary.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: 55chevr on November 06, 2013, 09:16:26 PM
The entire world is doing business on the internet.  School children in NYC are no longer going to be taught cursive writing as it all computer now.  Time to join the information age.


Joe
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Helmick on November 06, 2013, 10:49:30 PM
Yeah, and kids get out of HS unable to read, and those who can read can't spell because they text all the time. That is commonly called "Dumbing Down America". PAMPA doesn't have to follow suit, IMO.  R%%%% Steve

Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Cuberly on November 06, 2013, 11:11:33 PM
Yeah, and kids get out of HS unable to read, and those who can read can't spell because they text all the time. That is commonly called "Dumbing Down America". PAMPA doesn't have to follow suit, IMO.  R%%%% Steve



Steve,
While I agree with your premise of "Dumbing Down America" I do think that using Pay Pal to pay subscriptions and make purchases is a good step forward.
There is no special intelligence required to write checks, but the world has changed and not using the US Mail to make financial transactions is a good thing.  Security is generally not a problem for those kind of transactions and most Identification theft is not done that way.  Stolen computers and phishing are the two main methods...
I have to agree with Frank Williams here...It shouldn't be a major problem for PAMPA to set up a PAY PAL account and it would actually relieve the membership chairman of a fair amount of work and automatically keep track of his recieved accounts.  I'm afraid I simply don't understand why it hasn't been done a long time ago.

Randy Cuberly
PS:  I'm and old Dogmatic "don't wan'na change sort of guy" but there are some things in this mess of computers and internet transactions that are good!
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Jerry Eichten on November 07, 2013, 12:48:04 AM
My renewal notice includes the ballot for PAMPA officers.  Only one of the nine positions has more than one candidate. 

Thank you to all who volunteer their time and talent for PAMPA.  I'll mail my ballot and a check. 
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Roy DeCamara on November 07, 2013, 01:01:17 AM
My renewal notice includes the ballot for PAMPA officers.  Only one of the nine positions has more than one candidate. 

Thank you to all who volunteer their time and talent for PAMPA.  I'll mail my ballot and a check. 
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Roy DeCamara on November 07, 2013, 01:07:58 AM
I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.  I'm simply trying to reply to Mike's post.  I agree.  The day comes that PAMPA will not accept my check as payment will be the last time I re-up.  Screw all this modern crap!!  I'm tired of passwords, stuff I have to remember. 
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: 55chevr on November 07, 2013, 05:07:18 AM
I assume everyone here has a computer or they wouldn't be reading this.   A good first step to the "Information Age".   Joining PAMPA and getting the payment in are tedious.  Needs the next step and be made computer friendly?

Joe
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: frank williams on November 07, 2013, 05:39:33 AM
As soon as I open my mouth, I sit here writing a check for a purchase.  While I'm at it I'll write one to PAMPA. 
.... then I'll hook up the team to go to the golf course ..... let's see .... maybe a horse drawn golf cart ....... Ok, Ok,  ....I'm, just having fun with yall ......  ;)
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: SteveMoon on November 07, 2013, 06:17:56 AM
How hard is mailing a check? Didn't seem very difficult at all.

Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 07, 2013, 06:46:15 AM
How hard is mailing a check? Didn't seem very difficult at all.

Steve

I don't want to sound rough, but I can't mail a check...
I've been trying to become a PAMPA member for a couple of months now, no success...
If there was the option "On-line" not only me but a few other fellow modellers would be happy to join PAMPA.
PayPal makes things easier...
Just my 2 cents...
And, could anybody please direct me to who/how/what I must do to join PAMPA???
Sending a form by mail from 10,000 miles seems like taking forever...

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: James C. Johnson on November 07, 2013, 06:52:39 AM
Irony.... People complaining about remembering a password but have no problems memorizing the stunt pattern..

I wish there was paypal option, I haven't bought checks in almost 10 yrs...
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: john e. holliday on November 07, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
Renewals are out???   Have not got mine yet.   But, how long does it take to do a money order.   In reality all the treasurer needs to know is the PayPal charge for the membership fee, then have the member add that amount to it.   Does the treasurer have a PayPal account?   If so all we have to do is send to his account with added fees and note that it is for PAMPA membership.   Our NCLRA has that now if I remember right.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Derek Barry on November 07, 2013, 08:27:20 AM
PAMPA is a volunteer organization. If you don't like the way things are, maybe you should volunteer to help out.

We all know that as soon as a new website is rolled out there will be people complaining about it too. Even though they did nothing to help develop, manage, or maintain it.

Derek
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MikeCoulombe on November 07, 2013, 09:16:58 AM
So much drama, I'll be mailing my renewal, but it would be nice to renew online, I hope that the new PAMPA site has the PayPal option.
Does anyone know when the "New" website is scheduled to appear?

Mike  HB~>
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Cuberly on November 07, 2013, 12:00:45 PM
Irony.... People complaining about remembering a password but have no problems memorizing the stunt pattern..

I wish there was paypal option, I haven't bought checks in almost 10 yrs...

Yeah...but even the best among us sometimes forget the pattern...Ask Ted Fancher...or for that matter just about any expert!

Sorry Ted...just couldn't stop myself!!

Randy C.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: wwwarbird on November 07, 2013, 04:37:15 PM
How hard is mailing a check? Didn't seem very difficult at all.

Steve

 That is a good and valid point Steve, it's not difficult. Either way, I'll still re-up. 

 Some here, at least me, are only trying to say that it would be nice to have an online payment option. The bottom line is that no, mailing a check is not a big deal, but an online option would be a welcomed addition for many members.

 Some other food for thought...

 If there was an online payment option for PAMPA and their products, I would be much more likely to order some of the other merchandise offered instead of only re-upping my membership each year and then leaving it at that. It's possible that I might not be the only one for that...just sayin'. D>K

 And BTW, Thank You to all the volunteers. H^^
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Helmick on November 07, 2013, 08:21:39 PM
Instead of PayPal, if it was setup to use any popular credit or debit card, I'd be ok with that. I currently don't want to have anything to do with eBay or PayPal, and you can't make me!  @@^ Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bruce Perry on November 07, 2013, 10:54:11 PM
I wonder why there are no young members?

Sure checks work well for US members. Not so much for out of country members. Int'l money orders can be very expensive and inconvenient. Evidence Marcus' comment. PayPal is slightly better and a simple solution for this cycle.

Our company processes many many transactions through an e commerce site. We are about to roll out a new one that will allow online debit purchases. We are doing it to satisfy the demands of the consumers we cater to.  PAMPA needs to embrace this trend too. A great deal of retail research insists this is the necessary direction for successful cards to retail organizations.

The high point of PAMPA membership had at least twice as many members outside the US as we do now. A simple CC solution would encourage membership. We could all email a link to one non member.  Yes we can also photocopy and offer the membership using the current cash or check too and yes we should!!!  However, easy counts for some, that certainly doesn't mean it's a UNIVERSAL truth.  

All good retailers must accept all forms of payment. We must react to the demand.

I would be pleased to offer council to the executive regarding our e commerce solutions.  Further to emailing credit cards, we are trained in PCI compliance. This refers to exposure of credit cards to fraud or theft. Email does not meet PCI compliance in CANADA.  The fines levied by CC companies on organizations that allow cards to be jeopardized are company killers. Tens of thousands per occurance.  I would strongly caution that the organization consider the risk exposure here.  

Paypal answers this issue. Phone orders are less risky than email however the nonqualified discount rate is higher. Meaning we pay more to get the dough. But we get the dough!

Checks are easy for some and that's awesome. They are not universally easy or convenient and to grow PAMPA we have to be easy to BUY from!  Period!

Bruce
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: John Leidle on November 07, 2013, 11:53:26 PM
 Steve,  both my boys left high school with a much better skill set of writing than I ever had. I don't believe it's the system. I believe it's the lack of upbringing if a kid cant read.
                   John
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 08, 2013, 04:39:35 AM
I wonder why there are no young members?

Sure checks work well for US members. Not so much for out of country members. Int'l money orders can be very expensive and inconvenient. Evidence Marcus' comment. PayPal is slightly better and a simple solution for this cycle.

Our company processes many many transactions through an e commerce site. We are about to roll out a new one that will allow online debit purchases. We are doing it to satisfy the demands of the consumers we cater to.  PAMPA needs to embrace this trend too. A great deal of retail research insists this is the necessary direction for successful cards to retail organizations.

The high point of PAMPA membership had at least twice as many members outside the US as we do now. A simple CC solution would encourage membership. We could all email a link to one non member.  Yes we can also photocopy and offer the membership using the current cash or check too and yes we should!!!  However, easy counts for some, that certainly doesn't mean it's a UNIVERSAL truth.  

All good retailers must accept all forms of payment. We must react to the demand.

I would be pleased to offer council to the executive regarding our e commerce solutions.  Further to emailing credit cards, we are trained in PCI compliance. This refers to exposure of credit cards to fraud or theft. Email does not meet PCI compliance in CANADA.  The fines levied by CC companies on organizations that allow cards to be jeopardized are company killers. Tens of thousands per occurance.  I would strongly caution that the organization consider the risk exposure here.  

Paypal answers this issue. Phone orders are less risky than email however the nonqualified discount rate is higher. Meaning we pay more to get the dough. But we get the dough!

Checks are easy for some and that's awesome. They are not universally easy or convenient and to grow PAMPA we have to be easy to BUY from!  Period!

Bruce

Thanks Bruce.
I never meant to be disrespectful, I just want to be able to download Stuntnews, like any of you...
And here is my suggestion.
Why not have it possible to join PAMPA thru the online shop here in the fórum?
That would bring together the best there is when we talk about stunt...
What y'all say?
Robert?

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Fitton on November 08, 2013, 07:07:11 AM
Guys, the new Pampa web site has been completed for months, after an immense amount of effort by one of our EC members.  The new site has a shopping cart system that allows online purchase of Pampa membership/renewals as well as other Pampa products by credit card.  It was certainly our hope that we would be using the site for this years renewals, but that will not be the case.  The new site needs someone to be the administrator of it, and to date no one with the right qualifications has stepped up.  Our president Don McClave has been working with the site creator to try to locate somebody for some months now.  We will just have to be patient.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: SteveMoon on November 08, 2013, 07:38:26 AM
This is unbelievable. So much whining! Out of country members can simply mail
a money order. Let's remember that PAMPA has been around since 1974, there
wasn't any PayPal or online payments then, and somehow everybody still managed.
If you live in the US and don't have checks, just go to the post office and get a
money order and you can mail it right there. Not that hard.

If an organization is something you feel is worthy of your time and effort to be a
part of then you will do what is necessary to be a part of that organization, whether
it's PAMPA, AMA, AROC (Alfa Romeo Owners Club), NRA, SCCA, or whatever.

Later, Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: peabody on November 08, 2013, 07:54:23 AM
Steve...it IS that hard for some.....especially in a day and age when on-line renewal/donation is so easy.......I believe that membership could/would increase if it was easier to join...although I am not sure that increasing PAMPA membership is a goal.
It might work if some upstanding member with a Pay Pal account would deal with renewals and then write a check or use a credit card to PAMPA?
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Dick Pacini on November 08, 2013, 08:49:46 AM

 Let's remember that PAMPA has been around since 1974,


Actually, it was 1973.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: SteveMoon on November 08, 2013, 11:58:48 AM
There you go, 1973, 40 years.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Cuberly on November 08, 2013, 01:31:36 PM
There you go, 1973, 40 years.

Steve,
Are you still doing everything the same way you were 40 years ago.  I seriously doubt it.  The world changes.  Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse, but nothing remains static...You cannot fight that truth!
If there is an easier way for some folks to do this situation why not comply?
In fact it looks like PAMPA is complying when they can find someone savy enough to run the thing.  Surely we have some manager types that can handle this.

Randy cuberly
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: SteveMoon on November 08, 2013, 02:59:56 PM
You are right Randy, things do change. And, you are right about finding someone
to run the new setup. Until that is working though, why do people have to whine
so much; can't we all just do what is necessary to be a part of an organization
that we want to belong to.

Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Fitton on November 08, 2013, 03:03:16 PM
Steve,
Are you still doing everything the same way you were 40 years ago.  I seriously doubt it.  The world changes. 


Steve totally crashes bikes the way (Evil Knievel) did 40 years ago. VD~ VD~ VD~ VD~
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bruce Perry on November 08, 2013, 06:41:24 PM
# Marcus, I didn't take anything you've said as disrespectful! I apologize to you if it came across that way, I meant to use your statement as an example.

# Steve, if I came across as whining that was certainly not the intent!!!!  Hahahaha perhaps another case of the written word not conveying the true message.  I was merely pointing out the direction e commerce is going and the trends we are seeing here. I had hoped to be helpful!  I will find a handful of American greenbacks and ship them in for processing as I would like to continue my membership.   Heal fast buddy!

The faithful and the converted will always find a way to join!  I assumed it would be a benefit if more joined our ranks.  I feel many will once our cool new site is full functioning. 

B
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Helmick on November 08, 2013, 06:46:11 PM
Sounds to me that Mr. Perry is well qualified to run the PAMPA online billing department, and only needs a slight push to volunteer?   LL~ Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MikeCoulombe on November 08, 2013, 07:01:30 PM
Sounds to me that Mr. Perry is well qualified to run the PAMPA online billing department, and only needs a slight push to volunteer?   LL~ Steve

I second that nomination!   #^
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bruce Perry on November 08, 2013, 09:43:10 PM
Thanks guys! 

As a foreigner it complicates the matter quite a bit.  Moving money back and forth across the border makes for some interesting discussions with folks that have little humour. 

Sorry, that job isn't for me.

B
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: SteveMoon on November 09, 2013, 07:10:25 AM
Yes, Steve I can still crash old school. Broke my collarbone at age 7, broke it again
at age 50! Some things do stay the same. Although, they did use CyA glue instead
of stitches to close the wound. He did such a good job, he didn't even have to use
any kicker!

I'm confident that the new site will be up and running in the not too distant future,
but until then we'll just have to press on the old fashioned way. We'll manage.

Steve
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 09, 2013, 10:50:48 AM
Thanks guys! 

As a foreigner it complicates the matter quite a bit.  Moving money back and forth across the border makes for some interesting discussions with folks that have little humour. 

Sorry, that job isn't for me.

B

Bruce

In no way I thought you were rough on me... I just wanted to make it clear I'm not complaining, it's just what you said, sending cash is really a PITA..
But ok, if I must wait, I must wait...
I had got in touch with Jim Vornhold and was ready to send my info and card number, but right then it seems that something happened and I lost contact with him.
So, if anybody could please get the email of the person currently responsible for this, I'd be happy to do it right now...
Oh, and as it is volunteer work, if I can be of help, just let me know.

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Cuberly on November 09, 2013, 11:48:45 AM
You are right Randy, things do change. And, you are right about finding someone
to run the new setup. Until that is working though, why do people have to whine
so much; can't we all just do what is necessary to be a part of an organization
that we want to belong to.

Steve

Absolutely Steve...
Having lived on the other side of the big pond for a whole I do know how complicated it can be sometimes to transfer money from another country to the US.  Especially now with the constant changing value of currencies to each other.
I'm not opposed to writing checks but in my opinion it's riskier and a lot more trouble than making on line transfers.  It's even more so for our friends in other countries.
I've come to know Marcus from correspondence  with him and believe he is a true gentleman and if he says's it's a problem for him I believe him.  I am glad we are trying to do something about it.
If I was more literate about IT systems I would volunteer to take that position...unfortunately I'm not.  In spite of being fairly intelligent I'm sure I would make a mess of it!

My comments were not meant as any kind of criticism of you or of your previous remarks...just expressing an opinion.

Randy Cuberly
PS:  Hey Steve, I broke bones 11 different times when I was racing flat track in the 70's...they heal.
Then when you get to be 73 like me you can feel everyone of them all over again... y1.

Randy C.

Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 09, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
In case anyone missed it above (Reply #5), the current contact for PAMPA membership is:

Michael Strand
24 Enterprise Rd., Suite C
Delafield, WI 53018
262-352-0645
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 09, 2013, 03:43:25 PM
In case anyone missed it above (Reply #5), the current contact for PAMPA membership is:

Michael Strand
24 Enterprise Rd., Suite C
Delafield, WI 53018
262-352-0645


Great! Does he have one email???

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 09, 2013, 03:52:52 PM
Great! Does he have one email???
Marcus
==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Powell on November 09, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Interestingly, I just renewed my AMA membership. Online. Took about 2 minutes since they already had all my basic information. I also just renewed my membership in another club I belong to. Also took just a minute - online. Payment of both was with a credit card and I got a receipt instantly.

I do believe that PAMPA would see some increase in membership if there were an online option to join/renew. At the least, they would have me. I will probably get around to getting a money order (about .75), filling out the application (10 to 15 minutes), addressing an envelope (another couple of minutes), buying a stamp (20 minutes and .60) and then mail the application. Then, 2-4 weeks later I will (maybe) get acknowledgement of receipt of my money and application. Then, hopefully, I will be eligible to download Stunt News in January. Lots of places in that progression for breakdown.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 09, 2013, 05:24:28 PM
What're you going to do when your power goes out, or your computer crashes? 

Too much reliance these days on electronics.  Yes, I know: spoken like an Old Geezer.

(Guilty as charged.)
 
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 09, 2013, 05:35:31 PM
==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.


Thank you Mike

Will try to reach him on Monday morning.


Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 12, 2013, 05:50:46 AM
==========================================

Yes, I show two, actually:  mike(at)geartecinc(dot)com and pampamembership(at)GearTecInc(dot)com

Hope this helps.


Mike

Thanks but neither worked.... :'( :'(
Maybe I should get my old typewriter out of the attic, get a couple of stamps and an envelope...

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 12, 2013, 06:21:09 PM
Marcus:

Try mike(at)geartekinc(dot)com - substitute the 'k' in geartek for the 'c' previously shown.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 13, 2013, 12:32:52 PM
Steve...it IS that hard for some.....especially in a day and age when on-line renewal/donation is so easy.......I believe that membership could/would increase if it was easier to join...although I am not sure that increasing PAMPA membership is a goal.
It might work if some upstanding member with a Pay Pal account would deal with renewals and then write a check or use a credit card to PAMPA?


Rich;

Its not that easy and this post it not aimed at you.  You have given selflessly over the years in organizing the various PAMPA classes for the NATS, not to mention handling advertising for PAMPA.  I am using your post to illustrate the complexity of setting up the various option that to many seems is a simple transaction.

All;

A couple of givens:

1.  The majority of on line users expect to have instant results.

2.  In order to offer numerous different membership options, we have basic membership (internet only), US w/printed SN (bulk mailing) US w/printed SN (first class mail) , US w/CD SN, International w/CD, International w/printed SN, Canada and Mexico first class printed SN, and family member.  The programming for all of this is exponentially more difficult to get it to work right.  We have created very flexible membership options, but that creation is a programming nightmare.

I have tried three different times to migrate to a platform that would allow that to happen with accuracy, speed, and robustness, and failed all three times with a great amount of time invested.  I fully admit to not being a programmer, but I hate failure (hence I tried three times).  Professionals that I did contact wanted more money than we had available to spend to do have the site accomplish the tasks we believe necessary.

Now, if you or anyone else reading this thinks that they can lend a hand, I will put you in touch with the right person.  If someone has deep pockets and wants to contribute the funds required to have professional programmers do things better, by all means, do it.  Otherwise we will need to continue to scan and email, fax, or do whatever is necessary to maintain membership to keep the organization and SN published.

Having run the PAMPA website for six years now and kept it limping along as the software becomes more and more dated, I have found that there are a lot more complainers than their are contributors.  If you or anyone else think its inconvenient for you to take ten minutes to write a check and put it in an envelope or scan and email the membership form to reap the benefit of  the effort that goes into Stunt News and maintaining the site, I am growing short of sympathy.  I spend a dozen hours each week keeping the site going and handling user issues.  It is not the best solution, but it is what we have on hand.

Note - this all pales in comparison to the work required for Secretary/Treasurer and Membership Chairman.

And if there are those who wish me to reimburse PAMPA for my compensation, send me a SASE and I will remit the $0.00 total I have been paid.  Also list your skills in website development and maintenance so that you can continue the race once the baton is passed.

So here is the bottom line.  A new site is in development.  It should do on line PAMPA registration in all its permutations, products, and plans service.  As to when it will be ready is still undetermined, but we all know that sooner is better than later.  And, if anyone out there is a website developer and wants to help, email me and I will forward it on to the right person.

Otherwise, please bear with us until this Herculean task is complete and I do battle handover to a new webmaster.


V/r

Bob Kruger
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Powell on November 13, 2013, 12:41:19 PM
Bob,

Hey, it is what it is. I do wish we had an online option for renewal. But we don't. Oh well. When I get the chance, I will round up what is needed to rejoin. Or I won't. That's on me. I would certainly like a simpler option, but if not, not.

The world has become a place of instant gratification, I suppose. But that's the truth.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 13, 2013, 12:56:21 PM
Bob,

Hey, it is what it is. I do wish we had an online option for renewal. But we don't. Oh well. When I get the chance, I will round up what is needed to rejoin. Or I won't. That's on me. I would certainly like a simpler option, but if not, not.

The world has become a place of instant gratification, I suppose. But that's the truth.

Randy;

We are working on that solution, but in a world of instant gratification, people demand absolute precision with the handling of their funds.   It HAS to be right.  Makes website developers and maintainers lose sleep at night.

The other option is to fill in your credit card info, mail it in (or scan/fax it).  It's not that complicated.

And, if you know of someone with the requisite skills to assist in the process, have them contact me.

Bob
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: jose modesto on November 13, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
There should be two option online mag. Cut cost of printing,entire mag in color. Second is a CD for those that insist on it.
The printed mag is a thing of the past.
Registration would be simpler and maybe even on line.
Jose Modesto
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 13, 2013, 02:22:12 PM
There should be two option online mag. Cut cost of printing,entire mag in color. Second is a CD for those that insist on it.
The printed mag is a thing of the past.
Registration would be simpler and maybe even on line.
Jose Modesto

Anything more than one simple option makes things more complicated.  2 is as complicated as 20.

Not to mention that most of the US users want a hard copy.

Bob
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 13, 2013, 04:25:14 PM
Bob

I really think you guys do a great job. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been trying to register for a couple of months now.
But no biggie.
I only wanted one email to send my info to, as Jim told me to do....
Now, I don't want to bother anybody, neither want to criticize your work.
And I'm sorry if it seemed so.

So, as I never say die, if there's anybody out there who I could send a paypal to, and then could forward the Money to PAMPA, I'd be very thankful.
I will cover any fee that applies.

I would like to quote John Brodak here:
"I would like to know what the overlap of subscribers is for StuntNews and CLW......... There may have to be changes made in the future for both of these publications to survive."

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: 55chevr on November 13, 2013, 05:19:30 PM
You can't fire the free help. 

Joe
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Shawn Lenci on November 13, 2013, 07:19:34 PM
This thread has me laughing...actually crying is more like it.  How hard is it to fill out a renewal application, write a check, put them both in a self addressed envelope, put a stamp on the envelope, and put it in the mailbox? ???   It is the old school way of paying a bill or paying for an item.  Most guys here are old school modelers who scratch build airplanes, cover them with silkspan and dope, and power them with old technology nitro engines.  You would think renewing by "snail mail" would be their preferred method of renewing their PAMPA memberships for these are do it yourself people.  Just think of it as the "BOM" rule.....Build your Own Membership application.  You fill the form out with an ink pen, write a check and mail it in.  It seems that some people here want the ARF method where most the work is done by the computer.

Joining PAMPA should be a little bit of an effort.  Most things in life worth doing take a little work.  It is not like you have to rejoin every month or so, just once a year.   Takes about 5 minutes.  Do what I did, have your wife fill out the membership and write the check and mail it off for you. ;D  I am sure she would love to know you spend $60 for your membership and 6 magazines each year around Christmas time ;)

One other thought.  Paypal or using a credit card to pay for your membership is not FREE!  PAMPA would have to eat the cost (approx 3% of the transaction amount) just to make it easier for you to renew.  Is this really a prudent way to spend PAMPA's financial resources? ???  On last thought; paying by the USPS keeps them in business longer.  Paying bills online is killing them and no matter what you want to believe we still need the postal system.

Don't be lazy, write the check and send in the application.  Make sure your friends do it as well.  PAMPA membership is well worth the cost and effort to join!

Flame me if you want, I can take it.  
Shawn Lenci
Escalon, CA

Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 13, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Right on, Shawn!

As stated earlier in this thread, my check was mailed on Oct. 26....confirmation rec'd via email on Oct. 30 - all for the cost of a postage stamp.

There's way too much reliance these days on electronic crap.

Write a check....affix a stamp....send it off.

Bingo!  Done!!!
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 14, 2013, 05:49:00 AM
Bob

I really think you guys do a great job. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been trying to register for a couple of months now.
But no biggie.
I only wanted one email to send my info to, as Jim told me to do....
Now, I don't want to bother anybody, neither want to criticize your work.
And I'm sorry if it seemed so.

So, as I never say die, if there's anybody out there who I could send a paypal to, and then could forward the Money to PAMPA, I'd be very thankful.
I will cover any fee that applies.

I would like to quote John Brodak here:
"I would like to know what the overlap of subscribers is for StuntNews and CLW......... There may have to be changes made in the future for both of these publications to survive."

Marcus

Marcus;

Email me directly.  I will give you my paypal info and send it in for you.

V/r

Bob Kruger
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: MarcusCordeiro on November 14, 2013, 06:37:05 AM
Marcus;

Email me directly.  I will give you my paypal info and send it in for you.

V/r

Bob Kruger

Done!

Thank you Bob

Marcus
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 14, 2013, 09:26:07 AM

One other thought.  Paypal or using a credit card to pay for your membership is not FREE!  PAMPA would have to eat the cost (approx 3% of the transaction amount) just to make it easier for you to renew.  Is this really a prudent way to spend PAMPA's financial resources? ???  On last thought; paying by the USPS keeps them in business longer.  Paying bills online is killing them and no matter what you want to believe we still need the postal system.

Don't be lazy, write the check and send in the application.  Make sure your friends do it as well.  PAMPA membership is well worth the cost and effort to join!

Flame me if you want, I can take it.  
Shawn Lenci
Escalon, CA



No one needs to flame anyone.  The only reason I jumped in here was to put aside the notion that there is a simple online solution for PAMPA membership and renewal that also includes quick access to the members only section of the website, accurate routing of funds, and security of information.  There isn't.  We are working on it.  We appreciate everyone's patience. 

I would rather have a slower but accurate manual system than an automated system with the reliability of the national Obamacare website.

V/r

Bob
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: RC Storick on November 14, 2013, 09:41:26 AM
What I don't understand is a paypal button subscription is so easy to set up. Takes about 2 Minutes tops. Whoever is responsible for the check book needs to do it or give the info to the webmaster.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 14, 2013, 11:15:31 AM
What I don't understand is a paypal button subscription is so easy to set up. Takes about 2 Minutes tops. Whoever is responsible for the check book needs to do it or give the info to the webmaster.

Sure do wish you would read the rest of the postings.

The problem is not a single Paypal button.  The problem is the granting of instant access and insuring that the right variety and type of membership options.  That is exponentially more complicated than hitting a single button for Paypal and and sending a single payment to support Stunthanger.  If you think you can do it, e.g. set it up so that a new user pays, gets access, and a database is updated without human interaction (the biggest issue for all of us involved with the site) as to the membership options, checks to make sure that non-US accounts are charged appropriately, I will put you in touch with the right people.

But this is the fourth time you and I have had this exchange.

Bob
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Dave_Trible on November 14, 2013, 11:26:16 AM
Sent mine yesterday by tortoise express.

Dave
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Balsa Butcher on November 14, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
I found the option to fill out the renewal form on line and print it for mailing very handy. Good job. 8)
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: RC Storick on November 14, 2013, 01:42:44 PM
Sure do wish you would read the rest of the postings.

The problem is not a single Paypal button.  The problem is the granting of instant access and insuring that the right variety and type of membership options.  That is exponentially more complicated than hitting a single button for Paypal and and sending a single payment to support Stunthanger.  If you think you can do it, e.g. set it up so that a new user pays, gets access, and a database is updated without human interaction (the biggest issue for all of us involved with the site) as to the membership options, checks to make sure that non-US accounts are charged appropriately, I will put you in touch with the right people.

But this is the fourth time you and I have had this exchange.

Bob

This page may help. Or maybe not https://developer.paypal.com/webapps/developer/docs/classic/ipn/integration-guide/IPNandPDTVariables/#id091EB0901HT
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Bob Kruger on November 14, 2013, 02:11:16 PM
This page may help. Or maybe not https://developer.paypal.com/webapps/developer/docs/classic/ipn/integration-guide/IPNandPDTVariables/#id091EB0901HT

Thanks for the link.

Regrettably, it does not answer the programming requirements and custom database work that needs to be integrated for the system to work as outlined above.

We believe that the new site and software will answer the requirements and allow us to do what we need to do to.  It just has to work right. 

We will get there.

Bob
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Randy Cuberly on November 14, 2013, 03:48:07 PM
Well...for all those that think on line operations of purchase are simple I'll remind you that the US Government just spent approximately 500 million dollars trying it and really screwed the pooch!!!  y1 y1 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Randy cuberly
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Dennis Moritz on November 14, 2013, 05:00:56 PM
Pay Pal, Credit Cards, cost low volume retailers a big chunk of revenue. Many hidden costs. The Post Office sells money orders for a reasonable fee, same with 7-11. Can even buy already stamped envelopes at the PO. Weird to have this thread go on and on.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Mike Keville on November 14, 2013, 05:14:29 PM
US Postal Service is seriously "in the red" thanks primarily to electronic bill paying.  I still use checks, money orders, stamps and the US Mail....and have been very satisfied with the results.

Agree that this debate has about run its course.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Steve Scott on April 11, 2014, 09:50:10 PM
In case anyone missed it above (Reply #5), the current contact for PAMPA membership is:

Michael Strand
24 Enterprise Rd., Suite C
Delafield, WI 53018
262-352-0645


I just 'renewed' via check after a 10 year hiatus.  Took about 30 days for the check to clear.  Don't know if I have access to the website or not even sure the website I used is the current one.  Aside from the check image, I've not received any confirmation.  Pretty sure I sent it to somewhere in Wisconsin, check wasn't endorsed.  What does a membership buy you in this 'modern era'?
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: RC Storick on April 11, 2014, 10:01:39 PM
This is all about to change. Next week I will be taking over the new site and it will be able to accept online payments.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: john e. holliday on April 12, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
Can't thank both Bob's for what they are doing for the CL stunt community.   I need to finish up down loading the past discs of Stunt News.   Yes the printed copy can be useful when using the throne room, but I get in trouble for reading too much while in there.  I have read the Stunt News on line and also by loading my disc.  Thanks gentlemen.
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Ted Fancher on April 12, 2014, 11:36:13 PM
Oh, my.

I've read 79 or so responses to this thread with at least half of them suggesting that either "PAMPA" or "we" ought to do this that or the other thing to make things easier for "me".

Hey, guys.  "PAMPA" does nothing.  "We" do nothing.  Everything that has and is being done to keep "our" organization alive and kicking for the last 40 year has and is being done by one individual or another.  A handful of human beings taking significant portions of their lives to make the lives of others richer.  That isn't rocket science. 

If any of those who find the labors of existing volunteers lacking would volunteer to do what they believe is so "simple" any "problems" could be solved overnight.  All it takes is a hand in the air and the simple statement: "let me help".

The 80th response before me came from Bubba Hunt who has done approximately 100 times more effort on behalf of stunt than the rest of us put together and his comments were yet another example of one man raising his hand.

Believe me, I know from close experience that nothing that made PAMPA valuable to stunt fliers around the world was the result of any volunteer getting paid big bucks.  It came from volunteers seeing needs and filling them to make other peoples' lives richer...not their own.

Ted
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Ted Fancher on April 12, 2014, 11:39:49 PM
p.s.

Good on you, Doc and thank you, Sparky!

Ted
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Ted Fancher on April 12, 2014, 11:45:57 PM
p.p.s.

Eric V.  I knew when I sat in on the last two EC meetings for Jim Hoffman that you were going to be a big asset to our organization.  Thanks for your hard work and talent on our behalf.

Ted
Title: Re: PAMPA re-up
Post by: Sean McEntee on April 13, 2014, 04:11:44 AM
I wonder why there are no young members?

     Because there isn't an electronic option, to name one.

     I don't have time to write checks, lick stamps, and wait for the mailman.  I don't even have time to wait to get on my computer at home to pay bills. I barely find time to build models! I'm not lazy, I have 15 "kids" that I have to take care of, and it can be a 24/7 job at times.  Just about everybody has apps with which to do these things now. I have apps for cell phone bills, insurance, utilities, cable, banking, ect. that I use to pay bills from anywhere in the world (to include here). I also have apps for 3 separate credit monitoring bureaus that message me the moment anything on my credit report changes.  The internet isn't such a scary place if you have people working for you to protect you.   I realize that may not be an enticing switch for most folks, but the last time I ordered checks, I got 8 books and wrote 15 checks before they went bad.  As much as I move around, having something that isn't usable if my address changes is worthless to me.

    I'm not saying we need an iPhone/android membership app, we don't even need to revamp the website to support a paypal method.  Create a paypal account using the club's membership email. It's on the registration form already. Ad the 3-5 dollar fee to the membership if paying via PayPal. 3-5 bucks is worth it to me.  (Yes I have a paypal app). Application?  Include in the notes section of the transaction whether your information has changed or not.  This is too easy.  I'ds throw my hat in the ring and help out myself if I had the time to, though I predict in about 30 years or so I will have to find time if this thing is to keep going.

   I love you to death, Mikey, but no, a couple hundred envelopes will NOT make or break the Postal System.

    I pay my AMA membership online, as well as my National Free Flight Society and even my Flying Aces Club dues.

    Just sayin....

Edit:
Do what I did, have your wife fill out the membership and write the check and mail it off for you.

...Though Shawn may be on to something there  LL~