PAMPA, a big boys club?

[MikeCoulombe]

I am a paid member of PAMPA, I read stunt news whenever it is available.
I have been trying to update my email address for the last 2 years, I've sent emails, I've tried to contact executives on other forums, I include my new address on the annual renewal form!
Nothing works.
I'm sure if I was a "top gun hotshot" stunt flier my concerns wold have been addressed promptly.
But I guess since I live in Canada in the middle of nowhere, don't attend any "Big" events, don't design winning airframes, don't build engines, I will continue to be ignored.
I have competed in Winnipeg and Fargo, since the 80's. I have in the past when at the top of my game consistently posted scores of 550+ at these local contests.
So  here I am, been flying stunt for the last 30 years, consistently subscribing to PAMPA because I believe that PAMPA helps keep us all up to date on what is happening in north america and around the world.
Yet as a member I am completely ignored!
Maybe I won't waste my money this coming year.

[Tim Wescott]

I think it's more that there's one guy that takes care of that, and he may be letting you slip through the cracks.

I sent in a request last month to verify my membership (well, to verify my non-membership -- I'm pretty sure I failed to renew this past winter and I wanted to correct that) -- I got no reply.

[ChrisSarnowski]

Why don't you log in to the PAMPA website and update it yourself?

Log in, (name and password) then click on your name in the upper right of the page.

A page with your personal info should appear that you can then modify.

-Chris

[steven yampolsky]

What's your new email?

[john e. holliday]

Well, I just came from the PAMPA site and tried to change my phone number.   When I click on the update icon it just sits there.   By the way the old phone number is no good.   My new number is my cell phone.  913-553-8635

[ChrisSarnowski]

Huh, I just had the same problem (does not update). I even entered my password.

-Chris

[Clint Ormosen]

I'm sure if I was a "top gun hotshot" stunt flier my concerns wold have been addressed promptly.

Nope. The "top gun hotshots" have the same problem you do. Don't take it personally.

[MikeCoulombe]

What's your new email?

PM'd you Steve, my email is no secret here, mikecoul62@shaw.ca

[Rick_Huff]

I had the same problem back in March and emailed Bob Kruger (the administrator) and he replied that the problem was with the website providers.   My recollection is that he said that things were so screwed up that he didn't think it would be fixed until the new site is up and running on a new host provider.
Rick

[Steve Fitton]

I have been a Pampa EC member for almost 6 years now, and Pampa still doesn't have my email address right, so don't feel bad.

Its not a problem of big boys (anymore) but more a reflection of the age and shrinking size of this volunteer organisation.  The current membership secretary is in the midst of stepping down for health issues.  For virtually *every* Pampa position from President on down, it is no longer a situation of having candidates and an election but more of beating the bushes for somebody who will take the job at all.  The aging of the membership ensures this will be the new normal.

[Brett Buck]

I am a paid member of PAMPA, I read stunt news whenever it is available.
I have been trying to update my email address for the last 2 years, I've sent emails, I've tried to contact executives on other forums, I include my new address on the annual renewal form!
Nothing works.
I'm sure if I was a "top gun hotshot" stunt flier my concerns wold have been addressed promptly.
But I guess since I live in Canada in the middle of nowhere, don't attend any "Big" events, don't design winning airframes, don't build engines, I will continue to be ignored.
I have competed in Winnipeg and Fargo, since the 80's. I have in the past when at the top of my game consistently posted scores of 550+ at these local contests.
So  here I am, been flying stunt for the last 30 years, consistently subscribing to PAMPA because I believe that PAMPA helps keep us all up to date on what is happening in north america and around the world.
Yet as a member I am completely ignored!

   Send me a PM with the necessary information and I will change it right now (or, actually, later this afternoon when I am not at work).

   Brett

[Trostle]

Yet as a member I am completely ignored!

Please do not think you are alone.  I have had to make contact with PAMPA officialdom to receive each of my last two issues of Stunt News and I am still at least one issue behind in deliveries.

Keith

[Brett Buck]

PM'd you Steve, my email is no secret here, mikecoul62@shaw.ca

    I tried updating it, and although I definitely have admin access, the script to do the update would not run. So I am stumped.

    Brett

[frank williams]

I've tried to renew this year at least twice.  I sent my application and Visa in three seperate emails, as requested, and queried afterwards.   Notin.  I'm sure there were some good SN's this year, wish I'd seen them.
Houston, we have a problem.

[Bill Little]

OK, Mike.  Don't feel like it is "personal".  I was the Dist. 4 Trustee before I had to give it up to worsening health.  I have not been able to even sign up for two years or so.  I haven't tried yet with Jim Vornholt, just waiting to make sure my scans are clean, etc.  I want to get the mag, and pay my dues.  Now, up until this time I had simply called Shareen and told here I wanted to renew.  Nothing changed on address, etc, and gave her my card number!  Easy peasey!  Next Sec./Tres. said there MUST be a "paper trail".  Well I did not HAVE a membership application, and no working printer.  Contacted another just a bit later and same story.  No membership renewal without a "paper trail".  Now one of these has been my friend for over 20 years!  Funny thing is, it is all on a computer document, no problem to update.  So............ being aggravated, I am still not a member.  I am sorta cutting off my own nose to spite my face, but the "attitudes" expressed to me were not what I would call "Cheerful".

I still love the guys in PAMPA and will be renewed for 2014 in some way, shape, or fashion.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Brett Buck]

I've tried to renew this year at least twice.  I sent my application and Visa in three seperate emails, as requested, and queried afterwards.   Notin.  I'm sure there were some good SN's this year, wish I'd seen them.
Houston, we have a problem.

  Steve had it right above. It takes immense amounts of time to do this stuff, far more than most people would believe. It's all done on a volunteer basis by people who have the time available to do it. It tends to burn people out. Particularly so when there is a continual drumbeat of abuse directed towards them off-line and through whispering campaigns. Same with NATs administrators and judges.

  This is why me, and many of us who have gone through it, are so quick to confront the attacks. We will always be able to find pilots to show up at contests, but we won't necessarily be able to find people to run or judge the contests.

    I *do* know how much work some of this stuff entails and I can't personally commit to it right now, and, I have done a fair portion of my bit for the cause.  I also don't want to be a lightning rod that hurts the organization.

   We need people to step up. Expect to spend 20 hours a week, minimum, to do any of the major administrative jobs, and expect to do it for 8 years. You don't need any special skills, but you do have to be organized and you do have to stick with it until it is done. And put up with abuse from the same people we have had it from for 30 years, for the most part.

  I won't sugar-coat it, these website and membership issues are not good. I had the same experience, sent in the forms sent in money, never heard a word, and got kicked off the website for a while because it seemed I was not a member. Inquired further, still never had a word back about it. I know that there are some administrative issues right now but I don't know the details, either.

    Brett

[Dick Pacini]

I had to change my email at both PAMPA and AMA.  I don't remember any trouble at PAMPA, but AMA required an email.to them asking for help.  Try as I could, the change "wouldn't stick."  They fixed it, for me, anyway.

Changing email addresses because the server I had used since 1999 shut down was the biggest nightmare I ever faced.  It took months and still isn't 100%.

[Randy Powell]

I didn't have the problem. I didn't renew this year. I will this next year if I can get through the rather cumbersome process.

[Steve Helmick]

I've never had a problem. I send a check by USPS, as always. I also don't go changing my email address all willy-nilly.  Steve

[Steve Hines]

Paid at the NATs, that was easy.

Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

Yeah I sent in my renewal and nothing...Mr Kruger is a very nice guy and tried to help but I still can't get into the website and don't get Stunt News!  And you thought you were special because you were being picked on ...Hey how about volunteering to fix things...        we would think you were really special then...Your scores might even go higher...only kidding!

Everybody here realizes the problem and we're all too lazy or too burned ot to really fix anything.

I'm sure some brave soul will eventually step forward with a lot of enthusiasm and work hard for a couple of years until He burns out...This has been a cycle for quite a while now.

Randy Cuberly

[john e. holliday]

At my age volunteer!!!  Really when working in the trunking department for the phone company I could do minor  programing updates.  The protocol of the big changes in the system is what kept me from doing the big jobs in which you had to completely change routes between offices and coincide with the frame personal at the time.   When I started we would change customers phone in the office with the wiring,  when I retired it was all done by computer.     

[MikeCoulombe]

The new (and vastly improved...) PAMPA website will soon be up and running and you will be able to do a "one stop shopping" thing there and get your membership. As many have already posted, PAMPA is by and large a volunteer organization. If you are not satisfied with how it's run; volunteer to make it better! 

Later - Bob Hunt

Thanks for the update, Bob.


Hey Randy the scores get higher as the years progress, "the older I get, the better I was"! 

[Brian Massey]

As someone who has volunteered for many things over the years let's not get too hasty in condemnations. It is far too easy to "error" when you're trying to live your regular life along with the "job" you said you'd "be happy to do".

But yes, we are all anxious to have the new and improved site up and running!

Brian

[Randy Cuberly]

Thanks for the update, Bob.


Hey Randy the scores get higher as the years progress, "the older I get, the better I was"! 

Yeah...I understand...unfortunately I find that everyone else was still better also...

As I've gotten older my scores have improved greatly...so have everyone elses...the bar just keeps getting higher and higher and my legs seem to get shorter! 

Randy Cuberly

[MikeCoulombe]

Yeah...I understand...unfortunately I find that everyone else was still better also...

As I've gotten older my scores have improved greatly...so have everyone elses...the bar just keeps getting higher and higher and my legs seem to get shorter! 

Randy Cuberly

LOL

[MikeCoulombe]

Back to the topic.
So basically what is being said is, if I chose to be a volunteer my concerns would carry more weight?
But because I am only a lowly "Paying" subscriber, I have no right to complain and should just accept it!

Wow my eyes have been opened I will keep paying and hoping things get better, can't wait to see the new website, although I don't know how PAMPA will notify me since my email is outdated and can't be updated since I go changing my email all "willy-nilly" like.
Maybe I will stumble across it some day.

Can't seem to access the PAMPA site today, but that is not unusual, not a complaint, just an observation!

Mike

[Brett Buck]

Back to the topic.
So basically what is being said is, if I chose to be a volunteer my concerns would carry more weight?
But because I am only a lowly "Paying" subscriber, I have no right to complain and should just accept it!

   That's certainly not what I intended to imply. You can certainly complain, this situation is not good, and many of us are in the same boat.  Complaining isn't going to solve it, though. What is going on is that people are burning out, and the only way it ends is if other people take over.

    Brett

[steven yampolsky]

Mike,

I've updated your email account on the website. Give it a try.

[steven yampolsky]

Well, I just came from the PAMPA site and tried to change my phone number.   When I click on the update icon it just sits there.   By the way the old phone number is no good.   My new number is my cell phone.  913-553-8635

Phone number updated

[steven yampolsky]

PM'd you Steve, my email is no secret here, mikecoul62@shaw.ca

Email updated

[steven yampolsky]

I had the same problem back in March and emailed Bob Kruger (the administrator) and he replied that the problem was with the website providers.   My recollection is that he said that things were so screwed up that he didn't think it would be fixed until the new site is up and running on a new host provider.
Rick

What's the info that you'd like corrected?

[Garf]

A group like Pampa shouldn't be having problems like this. I hope the new site cures all this.

[steven yampolsky]

A group like Pampa shouldn't be having problems like this. I hope the new site cures all this.

A group like PAMPA should have more volunteers but alas, few step up.

[55chevr]

Most people are hesitant to step up because they feel they aren't needed or wanted.    The case here is that it appears to the average contributor that there is an established hierarchy and they don't want to intrude.  Open doors invite people in. No one is recruiting for PAMPA so it has to flow with its current infrastructure.


Joe

[john e. holliday]

Thanks Steve.   

[Dick Pacini]

Can members in remote areas help in some way?  By remote, I mean not at all local to PAMPA headquarters.

[MikeCoulombe]

Thanks Steve

Dick makes a good point.

What could a person who doesn't live near a Stunt Mecca do to help out.


Thanks for not holding back guys I feel much better now.

[Brett Buck]

Can members in remote areas help in some way?  By remote, I mean not at all local to PAMPA headquarters.

  Where would that be?  There's nothing like a "PAMPA Headquarters" - it's wherever the secretary lives. No one is local or remote.

    Brett

[steven yampolsky]

Most people are hesitant to step up because they feel they aren't needed or wanted.    The case here is that it appears to the average contributor that there is an established hierarchy and they don't want to intrude.  Open doors invite people in. No one is recruiting for PAMPA so it has to flow with its current infrastructure.

Joe

Joe,

I am FAR from what one could call "established hierarchy". I'm from the "wrong" coast. I'm from the Yankee heartland: Boston. We fly 6 months out of the year and in the past PAMPA "wars", I was smack in the middle of the anti-establishment territory. I have NEVER competed at the NATS nor do I have the required skills or dedication to make it into top 20. By all accounts, I should be the outsider, not one of the establishment and should not "rock" the boat or volunteer. Or so one would think...

Fact of the matter is, I help because the so called "establishment" are just like other PAMPA membmers: the most outgoing and friendly people you'll meet. Fact is, they have been with PAMPA for 30+ years and they are the ones that created the atmosphere that we are all drawn towards: mutual respect, love of craftsmanship, sportmanship and CL Stunt. They are not "the establishment". NO! They are life long friends that enjoy common pursuits and love sharing it with new friends.

Ten years ago, I offered to build the current web site. I volunteered. Four years ago, I stopped competing and dedicated myself to becoming the best judge I could be. This year, judged at the NATS. I volunteered. I could have sat on the sidelines and let others do the work. It's easy to find a reason not to help, not to make a commitment. By doing so, you are robbing yourself of a wonderful opportunity to help your fellow men. It is also an opportunity to meet other PAMPA members. When you help people online, when they see you in person, they are more likely to walk up to you to introduce themselves and to strike up a conversation. This is how friends are made!

Please, please, don't let the tone of discussions on the internet be your only means of building your opinion of PAMPA. Instead, let it be a tool of building new friendships and serve as topics for conversations when you meet face to face.

[Dick Pacini]

 Where would that be?  There's nothing like a "PAMPA Headquarters" - it's wherever the secretary lives. No one is local or remote.

    Brett

Well, I guess it would be nice to have an idea of how many positions there are and what is involved and expected of them.  How are they coordinated?  Can the work be done from a home computer?

The few years I have been on this board I have read about staffing problems with PAMPA, beginning as early as trying to register.  I recall reading about piles of checks waiting to be cashed because the writers hadn't been enrolled yet.

Certainly, a volunteer group seldom is able to stay absolutely on top everything, because there is usually a shortage of those volunteers.

So, here we are talking about it.  Good time to start soliciting help from members of PAMPA and this forum.  Lets get together and split some of the work up.

Back to you, Mr Buck.

BTW, I was a charter member of PAMPA when it was formed at the 1973 NATS.

[Dennis Holler]

OK, Mike.  Don't feel like it is "personal".  I was the Dist. 4 Trustee before I had to give it up to worsening health.  I have not been able to even sign up for two years or so.  I haven't tried yet with Jim Vornholt, just waiting to make sure my scans are clean, etc.  I want to get the mag, and pay my dues.  Now, up until this time I had simply called Shareen and told here I wanted to renew.  Nothing changed on address, etc, and gave her my card number!  Easy peasey!  Next Sec./Tres. said there MUST be a "paper trail".  Well I did not HAVE a membership application, and no working printer.  Contacted another just a bit later and same story.  No membership renewal without a "paper trail".  Now one of these has been my friend for over 20 years!  Funny thing is, it is all on a computer document, no problem to update.  So............ being aggravated, I am still not a member.  I am sorta cutting off my own nose to spite my face, but the "attitudes" expressed to me were not what I would call "Cheerful".

I still love the guys in PAMPA and will be renewed for 2014 in some way, shape, or fashion.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

I do not wish to put words in Jim's mouth, but at the last Indy Sportliners club meeting (He is our Pres) I believe I heard him  mention that he has been trying to turn over the reigns for quite some time.

[Brett Buck]

Well, I guess it would be nice to have an idea of how many positions there are and what is involved and expected of them.  How are they coordinated?  Can the work be done from a home computer?

The few years I have been on this board I have read about staffing problems with PAMPA, beginning as early as trying to register.  I recall reading about piles of checks waiting to be cashed because the writers hadn't been enrolled yet.

Certainly, a volunteer group seldom is able to stay absolutely on top everything, because there is usually a shortage of those volunteers.

So, here we are talking about it.  Good time to start soliciting help from members of PAMPA and this forum.  Lets get together and split some of the work up.

Back to you, Mr Buck.

BTW, I was a charter member of PAMPA when it was formed at the 1973 NATS.

     The critical positions (that require the most work)  are the secretary, treasurer, and newsletter editor. Almost any of the elected positions other than that are relatively low-stress and don't screw anything up too much to just do them

    Brett

     Brett

[Dick Pacini]

Thank you Brett.  Could someone list those positions and who to contact about them?  Am I reading in between the lines here that the elected positions are the ones that really need shoring up?

[Brett Buck]

Thank you Brett.  Could someone list those positions and who to contact about them?  Am I reading in between the lines here that the elected positions are the ones that really need shoring up?

    I would defer to people who are closer to the issue than I am - Steve and Eric?  I am mostly in the same boat with everybody else, I haven't been on the EC in several years.

    Brett

[Steve Fitton]

Thank you Brett.  Could someone list those positions and who to contact about them?  Am I reading in between the lines here that the elected positions are the ones that really need shoring up?

Hi Dick,

Right now to the best of my knowledge, the open positions are Dist I Pampa rep (open with no nominations as of the EC meeting at the Nats) and the Sec/Treas position, as Jim Vornholt needs to step down very soon.  Pampa president Don McClave would have the most up to date information on those vacancies.

[steven yampolsky]

Hi Dick,

Right now to the best of my knowledge, the open positions are Dist I Pampa rep (open with no nominations as of the EC meeting at the Nats) and the Sec/Treas position, as Jim Vornholt needs to step down very soon.  Pampa president Don McClave would have the most up to date information on those vacancies.

Thank you Steve. The job of the Treasurer will become much, much easier when the new web site comes online. Man, I wish we had the technology we have today 10 years ago....

[Steve Fitton]

The website will be a great improvement.  It will make pampa membership as accessible as some of the plastic model organizations like IPMS or AMPS.